The Saga of corroded brake wires on older trailers

[Wayfinder]

Well, as some of you know I've been posting a "ton" of stuff on the FB group.  I'm trying to share and received some good suggestions for troubleshooting all my brake issues. 

I was inspecting the brake wire bundles on the street-side wheel well when one of the very hard plastic sealed connectors broke off. I discovered even more corrosion (pictured).  No wonder these newer trucks think there's an issue with the brakes, cuz there is.  The voltage drop / resistance must be the issue.  I'll get someone to press on the brake peddle while I have a multimeter on these.  I'll compare the rear wire bundle to the front bundle, which I've not touched yet.  To see if I can see a difference. If I do the test correctly.

I placed new temporary connectors on the rear bundle at a harvest host in a very wet grassy field, after a huge downpour.  Fun times.  But the truck did not gripe about breaks for 2.5 hours going home, until the very end of the trip, after going through a HORRIBLE rainstorm on I-20.

There seems to also be wire "extenders" on the green wire on the front bundle, and I don't like the look of the NON-sealed connectors. I cannot wait to see what they look like.  I have shrink-wrap sealed connectors on-hand I will use.

Any suggestions are welcome, especially as it comes to testing the voltage from the 7-pin to the bundles.  Just things I've not yet done before. Kind of fun though.  

Thanks,

 

Edited July 17 by Wayfinder

[jd1923]

When I serviced my bearings, I cut back all the wires to clean copper and replaced all those old crimps. It's easy enough to run new wire if needed. I would suggest using the old wire to fish new 14 AWG wire, interior to the axles, not exterior using wire ties to the axles as John E Davies showed in an old post.

[Wayfinder]

I was curious, when the truck is running, or in run mode, why do the brakes assemblies tick?  Is this the communication signal from the newer trucks to check for voltage and ground? 

Thanks.

[Geronimo John]

21 hours ago, jd1923 said:

I would suggest using the old wire to fish new 14 AWG wire, interior to the axles, not exterior using wire ties to the axles as John E Davies showed in an old post.

JD:
One of the reasons that JD suggested the exterior routing acrosss the axle is that the wires were being damaged at the entry and exit points.  

I totally agree that the wires should be 14 ga as you suggested.

[Mike and Carol]

24 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

JD:
One of the reasons that JD suggested the exterior routing acrosss the axle is that the wires were being damaged at the entry and exit points.  

I totally agree that the wires should be 14 ga as you suggested.

When we pulled the wires from the axle there were wear spots in the middle of the wires too in several places.  Mine are now zip tied to the outside of the axle.  I had service check when they replaced my brakes in May and they left the wires on the outside.  Mike

[jd1923]

On 7/17/2024 at 6:02 AM, Wayfinder said:

There seems to also be wire "extenders" on the green wire on the front bundle

I remember removing excess wire. Voltage varies and is controlled by your trailer brake controller. I get Chris to apply the TV brakes,  on and off as I check the brake action and adjustment.

i would still run the wires through the axles. You just need high-quality, better insulated wire and you can add grommets. 

Edited July 18 by jd1923

[Wayfinder]

Those butt splice connectors on the green extender wires were too large AND whoever put them on did not bother to shrink wrap the ends, and they were quite large open ended connectors.  Water traps for sure.

Everything is reconnected and heat shrink wrapped ends are done too.  No truck errors in the drive way, but I never did get those.  

Will test drive soonest.  Finger's crossed.

Edited July 18 by Wayfinder

[Wayfinder]

Google led me to the 2018 forum discussion about wire size, right after I found this eTrailer article. https://www.etrailer.com/question-83165.html

I'm thinking of getting eTrailers 12 Gauge Black Primary Wire to replace what's in the axles, and likely going exterior too, but using medium-size black exterior zip ties. Suggestions welcome.
 https://www.etrailer.com/Wiring/Deka/12-1-1.html

I agree, what's in the Dexter axles are very thin, albeit double jacketed.

 

Edited July 18 by Wayfinder

[Wayfinder]

On 7/18/2024 at 12:02 PM, jd1923 said:

I remember removing excess wire. Voltage varies and is controlled by your trailer brake controller. I get Chris to apply the TV brakes,  on and off as I check the brake action and adjustment.

i would still run the wires through the axles. You just need high-quality, better insulated wire and you can add grommets. 

Thanks @jd1923 for your suggestions, and everyone's.  I have a new DC clamp multimeter in the mail.  I only had an AC clamp meter before.  Before I finish up my brake wiring job I'm curious to see the voltages before and after, especially at the farthest distance to passenger side brakes.

I'm torn between going internal and external wires.  I'm thinking someone can at least see any issues if exterior.  And with a ton of perfectly spaced exterior tie wraps, it should look "pro" - with the wire on rear, and slip above center-plane of the axle.  Still thinking about it.  I can be swayed.  I'm malleable.  😉 

[jd1923]

21 minutes ago, Wayfinder said:

I'm torn between going internal and external wires.  I'm thinking someone can at least see any issues if exterior.  And with a ton of perfectly spaced exterior tie wraps, it should look "pro" - with the wire on rear, and slip above center-plane of the axle.  Still thinking about it.  I can be swayed.  I'm malleable.  😉 

First, I would say it was designed to be internal. When I saw the pictures on the John E Davies post, I thought it didn't look so good and why get under there with so many wire ties. Good thing not much in way of UV rays down there since zip ties will get weak over time and will break. What if you run over something that grabs the wire? Behind the axle has some protection, in the axle has more.

I always go internal. On our Bigfoot RV an F450 frame, when installing a completely new battery/solar/inverter system, I ran two lengths of 10-3 AC cabling from the front where the house batteries and inverter were, through the truck frame, back almost 15 FT and then up to the AC panel. I would have spent hours tying these cables down to the frame but when I realized there was an open internal path the run was made in minutes, fully protected with no wire ties. Then I needed a 14 AWG from the battery monitor to the truck starter battery, again through the frame as much as possible.

Recently I installed a new fuel pump in the fuel tank of our Dodge Ram TV. The HP pump came with oversized 1/2" fuel line. I ran it completely though the frame, no better protection for a rubber fuel line. I watched 3-4 YouTube videos, and nobody had this simple idea. I often get installation kits with so many zip ties I do not use and save them for something else. I install things my way and you'll find what's best for you!

Like to read re the voltage readings you get. I believe OEM is 14 AWG wire. If you are concerned about voltage drop to the far side of the axle, you could run new 12 AWG on those legs for more durability and negligible voltage drop.

[Wayfinder]

@jd1923 any idea about the brake assemblies "ticking" when the truck is in run mode?  Was guessing communication/testing of the brakes so the truck always knows the status.  It tickets about the same rhythm that the errors might occur on the dash, when the brakes get disabled due to ground issues.

Thanks!

Edited July 19 by Wayfinder

[jd1923]

14 minutes ago, Wayfinder said:

@jd1923 any idea about the brake assemblies "ticking" when the truck is in run mode?  Was guessing communication/testing of the brakes so the truck always knows the status.  It tickets about the same rhythm that the errors might occur on the dash, when the brakes get disabled due to ground issues.

I've not heard any brake ticking in the many trailers I've owned. It does not sound right. However, I have never owned a newer truck with a built-in brake controller, so have no experience there.

I've always installed Tekonsha aftermarket brake controllers in every truck I've owned, except a for Redarc model installed in our GX470.

[Ronbrink]

17 hours ago, Wayfinder said:

I'm torn between going internal and external wires.  I'm thinking someone can at least see any issues if exterior.  And with a ton of perfectly spaced exterior tie wraps, it should look "pro" - with the wire on rear, and slip above center-plane of the axle.  Still thinking about it.  I can be swayed.

I would consider an alternate route for exterior runs of wire, the L-shaped aluminum crossbeams. From looking at their positioning in relation to respective axles, it seems more practical to utilize them rather than the axle themselves. Wires further protected with a loom could easily be fastened on the rearward side of these crossbeams at their juncture with the fiberglass hull, and most importantly out of harms ways. Just a thought! 

[Wayfinder]

@jd1923 the Google interwebs revealed that at least going back to 2018 RAM owners reported their trailers clicking. And yes I am a RAM owner. eTrailer explains that this is the truck ensuring the magnets are working and could use the brakes if needed. 

And as I learned, if the trailer has some questionable grounds or connections, the truck thinks there are no brakes, and gives up trying after a while, sometimes in the disable state. I'm not sure that's good logic or bad to disable the brake altogether. I rather just have the message remind me to check my brakes instead of completely turning them off. 

This could be my last RAM. 

Edited July 20 by Wayfinder

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, Wayfinder said:

This could be my last RAM.

A common sentiment on the Cummins Forum, is that we only own Rams to house our Cummins. Last gasser Ram I owned was an 80s model with a carbureted 360 CI.

No idea on your internal brake control system. You could always disable it and install a Tekonsha. I have this one and it works great. It has a test piston that I push often to see how the trailer brakes are working without applying the truck brakes. Depending on the feel you just dial in more or less, resulting in a voltage adjustment at the trailer wheels. You know exactly how they are working.

Tekonsha Primus IQ Trailer Brake Controller - 1 to 3 Axles - Proportional Tekonsha Trailer Brake Controller TK90160 (etrailer.com)

[Wayfinder]

Well, I finished putting on new connectors on all the brake assemblies. Much like @John E Davies article in 2018, I also saw a marked voltage improvement at each assembly, at least 100 mV or better. I have gone for two 20 mile test runs with the rig and no errors from the RAM and I've been able to reduce the brake controller gain from 8.5 to 6.0 or 6.5. Will continue to fine tune that in up coming travels. 

 

[GraniteStaters]

There is a DIY video on Dexter YouTube channel that showed checking the magnets as a part of the bearing repack and shows how to check the face of the magnet where it activates on the wheel. If there is uneven wear the magnet won’t be as effective.  I don’t believe they explained why the wear would be uneven.  

[SNY SD UP]

On 7/18/2024 at 7:59 AM, Geronimo John said:

JD:
One of the reasons that JD suggested the exterior routing acrosss the axle is that the wires were being damaged at the entry and exit points.  

I totally agree that the wires should be 14 ga as you suggested.

To All,

Mine were abraded somewhere within the axle tube in the middle between the hubs.  There was about 12' of wire stuffed in the axle between the hubs.
Mike T. & I were in discussion, as we both had this issue at overlapping times.  I believe I was just further in the process when we discussed.

I will include pics (of both dbl. insulated wires) of where abrading exposed to the bare copper within the two insulations.  I did not remember to label front & rear.

It was explained to me that the during the forming of the axle tubes (and this may vary depending upon manufacturer) the inside of some may get a robotic welding,
as well as the outside.  the outside of course is smoothed off and painted.  The inside, depending on the process may get a smoothing, however most of them are left with weld spatter inside so the axle tube on the inside resembles a concave wood rasp... just what we do NOT want to house our brake wires. 

Mine actually look like they were somehow pinched, or maybe during the shorting out process heated up enough to melt(?) the insulation near the abrasions.

So I went straight to a previously read article by Prof. JED, Emeritus, which dealt with replacing the brake wiring.  

I ran my newly purchased (NAPA Shielded Brake Cable) wires outside the Axle Tubes, putting them thru a loom at about 9 o'clock (to the rear) to protect from rocks or other strikes.  Using butt-splice connectors from the Shielded Brake Cable wires to the leads going into the brakes, then buttered the connectors up with adhesive-sealant to further protect connectors from moisture.  I have some ZIP TIES (I've been told, like the ones 'LE' uses on your wrists...) which are 1/2" wide and abt 1/8" thick, and used those secure the loom to the axles.  

At least that was my approach at the time, as I wanted to get back to camping.

The Brakes have worked as they should.

 

B~Out

Edited July 31 by SNY SD UP

[Mike and Carol]

1 hour ago, SNY SD UP said:

Mike T. & I were in discussion, as we both had this issue at overlapping times.  I believe I was just further in the process when we discussed.

Yes, mine looked very similar to Bryan’s.  I replaced them in the same manner and all is well.  Mike