LE1 Generator Selection

[jd1923]

On 11/8/2024 at 7:12 PM, DavePhelps said:

I'd also convert the generator to propane with the Hutch Mountain kit.

You do not need this relatively expensive kit, with regulator, if attaching the generator directly to the Oliver onboard LP quick disconnect which supplies regulated LP pressure. Yes with an external tank, but connected to the Oliver only a hose with correct fittings is needed.

Not sure what connection is on the Honda, but a $20 hose like this may work: https://a.co/d/cNzqBC4

[ADKCamper]

On 11/8/2024 at 9:12 PM, DavePhelps said:

Currently considering the Honda EU 2200i Companion. The companion model has a 30 amp plug (as well as a standard 20amp) so no adapters needed for my Oliver supplied shore power cord.

We currently have the Honda EU 2200i Companion model. Yes it has a 30 amp receptacle, but unless something has changed since we purchased ours it is not a TT-30 straight-bladed receptacle matching the shore power cord. It is a NEMA L5-30 3-prong twist lock receptacle... so you will need an adapter to use the common 30A shore power cord configuration with the Honda EU 2200i.

[Boudicca908]

9 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

DC-DC charger is a great alternative!

Something I need to read and learn about!

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, Boudicca908 said:

Something I need to read and learn about!

There are a few install posts here. The DC-DC charger is great if your stays are short, back on the highway every few days. Won’t help for longer stays and wanting to run the A/C. 

[SeaDawg]

8 hours ago, jd1923 said:

, there is no Truma and no OTT dealers in the state of Arizona. Two strong reasons.

There is truma mobile  service based in Phoenix. 

Edited November 11 by SeaDawg

[SeaDawg]

Not that I'm advocating for Truma. I'm not. I have no experience with them.

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, SeaDawg said:

Not that I'm advocating for Truma. I'm not. I have no experience with them.

Thinking Truma is a good decision for Hulls #1500 and above, those with money to spend not wanting extra aftermarket installations.

Unless something comes up better in the next 2-3 months, I’ll go with Atmos that @rideadeuce and @Ronbrink have proven, $1650 including SoftStartRV installed, S&H included, install yourself or find a local installer,

At the Truma price point, it should certainly come with integrated and proprietary soft start!

Another point for us boondockers. The Truma pulls large amps like the noisy Dometic. Atmos much more efficient draws less than 10A, Run your A/C on your 3KW inverter!

Edited November 11 by jd1923

[Patriot]

19 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

SoftStartRV units are readily available and claim universal fit, see attached. They can be purchased and self-installed on a Truma, but It is possible such could void their warranty. Perhaps someone in the know will chime in with a definitive answer.

 

Per my conversation with Oliver Service quite awhile back, if  you install anything other than a Truma soft start you will void your Truma warranty. This may have changed but I would not bet on it.

Happy Campers here after we had the Truma Aventa 13.5 BTU retrofit done by Oliver for so many reasons.

Edited November 11 by Patriot

[Ronbrink]

4 hours ago, Patriot said:

Per my conversation with Oliver Service quite awhile back, if  you install anything other than a Truma soft start you will void your Truma warranty. This may have changed but I would not bet on it.

Happy Campers here after we had the Truma Aventa 13.5 BTU retrofit done by Oliver for so many reasons.

Got me to think’n this early morning, went to Truma’s website and copied the following:

Anyone could install a SoftStartRV on an Aventa, but voiding a warranty would be a major concern, if true. At first, Truma claimed their units didn’t need a soft start/easy start device, but soon changed their view regarding that issue. 

Edited November 11 by Ronbrink

[Ronbrink]

18 hours ago, jd1923 said:

You do not need this relatively expensive kit

It’s my understanding the ‘kit’ is installed to make the single fuel (gasoline) Honda into a dual fuel generator (gasoline/propane). 

[Patriot]

1 hour ago, Ronbrink said:

Anyone could install a SoftStartRV on an Aventa, but voiding a warranty would be a major concern, if true.

At last years Oliver Rally Truma Rep Dave Leyman talked about the intro of the Truma soft start. He specifically mentioned that a Truma tech or Oliver Service would have to do the install for warranty purposes. The Truma tech said the SS was not going to be sold directly to the public at this time. This might have changed IDK. 

For anyone really interested in a Truma SS, I suggest giving Oliver Service a quick call, they will give you the full scoop.

[Ronbrink]

3 minutes ago, Patriot said:

The Truma tech said the SS was not going to be sold directly to the public at this time.

According to the SoftStartRV website, they only provide two models, which leads me to believe they are universal in application and thus, not brand specific. Thanks for providing pertinent information regarding Truma’s business practices, much appreciated!

[DavePhelps]

21 hours ago, ADKCamper said:

it is not a TT-30 straight-bladed receptacle matching the shore power cord. It is a NEMA L5-30 3-prong twist lock receptacle... so you will need an adapter to use the common 30A shore power cord configuration with the Honda EU 2200i.

Yes! Thanks for bringing that up.

 

21 hours ago, jd1923 said:

You do not need this relatively expensive kit, with regulator, if attaching the generator directly to the Oliver onboard LP quick disconnect which supplies regulated LP pressure. Yes with an external tank, but connected to the Oliver only a hose with correct fittings is needed.

Not sure what connection is on the Honda, but a $20 hose like this may work: https://a.co/d/cNzqBC4

If you want to run the generator on propane only, this could be true. But if you want dual fuel capability, then you'll need the kit. Rethinking the Hutch Mountain kit now in favor of the kit made by Grenergy. If you watch the install videos on YouTube, I think the Grenergy system is much better thought through, with better components.

I'm also rethinking the need for the Companion model. The 30 amp plug would be necessary if running two generators in series, but for one gen, the two 20amp plugs would be fine.

Dave

[jd1923]

5 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

Got me to think’n this early morning, went to Truma’s website and copied the following:

Ron, do you have startup amperage number for the Atmos with SoftStartRV? 

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, DavePhelps said:

If you want to run the generator on propane only, this could be true.

If I was to run a generator it would be LP only. I would not want to carry gasoline in the TV since it is explosive and smelly, some always spills when I fill tard tools or you need a funnel that will also smell like gas. I would not want the generator to ever have the smell of gas. Also, gasoline as produced and sold today is of rather low quality. You cannot keep it on hand, in a gas can, for more than a month or two before it starts to produce a lacquer-like sludge. You could add Stabil or a like additive to it keep it for 6 months. Gas needs to be used, and LP can sit in a tank for longer periods. I have not read of it going bad. Gas would have to be emptied when your Olivers are in storage for a period of time.

I would buy a propane only unit, if one was available on the market. I would also want it to run on the Oliver LP system with the installed quick disconnects that supply LP run through the onboard regulator if possible. Is anybody doing this already? What kind of LP connection is required?

IMHO, just some features and concerns to think about.

[Coddiwomple]

4 hours ago, Patriot said:

Truma tech or Oliver Service would have to do the install for warranty purposes. The Truma tech said the SS was not going to be sold directly to the public at this time. This might have changed IDK. 

When we had the soft start installed at the Elkhart facility, this is what we learned.

1. They are installing the standard SoftStartRV unit but they add a custom made bracket (which they will not sell to you).

2. The unit is installed with screws and 3M tape on a frame piece in front of the evaporator (bottom-left). Not in a cavity behind the evaporator (as is suggested in a video in YouTube). 

3. There is a 2 year warranty on this install.

4. It is easy to do yourself but that would void the warranty if some left.  Per the tech, if you install one yourself, and then need work done on your unit for some other unrelated issue, they will refuse to provide service.  Warranty or not.

[DavePhelps]

1 hour ago, jd1923 said:

If I was to run a generator it would be LP only. I would not want to carry gasoline in the TV since it is explosive and smelly, some always spills when I fill tard tools or you need a funnel that will also smell like gas. I would not want the generator to ever have the smell of gas. Also, gasoline as produced and sold today is of rather low quality.

This is all true JD. But I am also thinking emergency use of the generator at home where options of multiple fuel use would be an advantage. While having fun in my Oliver, I would only ever run the generator on propane for all the reasons you mentioned, and a few more! I also try to never run ethanol gas in any of my gas powered tools. Only high octane non-ethanol gas is used. Where I live, it is pretty easy to find. There is also a website that will list local "pure gas" locations in your area.

https://www.pure-gas.org/

Dave

[Coddiwomple]

On 11/10/2024 at 8:38 AM, jd1923 said:

On 11/8/2024 at 6:12 PM, DavePhelps said:

I'd also convert the generator to propane with the Hutch Mountain kit.

You do not need this relatively expensive kit, with regulator, if attaching the generator directly to the Oliver onboard LP quick disconnect which supplies regulated LP pressure. Yes with an external tank, but connected to the Oliver only a hose with correct fittings is needed.

I just spoke to Derek at Hutch Mountain and he asked me to post this to clear up a misunderstanding.  When installing their propane conversion kit, it is required that the large Demand Regulator is still used when connecting to the onboard LP quick disconnect.   

[ADKCamper]

6 hours ago, DavePhelps said:

I'm also rethinking the need for the Companion model. The 30 amp plug would be necessary if running two generators in series, but for one gen, the two 20amp plugs would be fine.

Dave

Either way you'll need both receptacles; absent an additional Y-adapter of some kind... one receptacle to power the camper load and the other for the neutral/ground shorting plug to keep the Progressive Industries surge protector/power quality checker happy 🙂

[DavePhelps]

3 hours ago, Coddiwomple said:

I just spoke to Derek at Hutch Mountain and he asked me to post this to clear up a misunderstanding.  When installing their propane conversion kit, it is required that the large Demand Regulator is still used when connecting to the onboard LP quick disconnect.   

Thanks for posting that! I was wondering if the regulator size was different. It makes good sense that it is. Curious that if one connects to the trailer's onboard LP quick connect, the propane is still regulated by the lower flow Oliver regulator.
I would think that you would still need a stand alone tank that had the high flow regulator separate from Oliver's lower flow regulated system. That's how I plan to run mine anyway.

 

 

1 hour ago, ADKCamper said:

Either way you'll need both receptacles; absent an additional Y-adapter of some kind... one receptacle to power the camper load and the other for the neutral/ground shorting plug to keep the Progressive Industries surge protector/power quality checker happy 🙂

This is very true for the newer Oliver trailers with the built in PI EMS. My 2015 Oliver has no EMS built in so I don't need the neutral/ground plug. I have the portable PI EMS, but would not be using it while boondocking and using the generator.
Please correct me if I'm wrong!

 

[Ronbrink]

19 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Ron, do you have startup amperage number for the Atmos with SoftStartRV? 

Sorry, I do not. Would be good to capture that value at some point in time. 

[jd1923]

5 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

Sorry, I do not. Would be good to capture that value at some point in time. 

Please do and let us know when you get the chance. Thanks

[ADKCamper]

19 hours ago, ADKCamper said:

Either way you'll need both receptacles; absent an additional Y-adapter of some kind... one receptacle to power the camper load and the other for the neutral/ground shorting plug to keep the Progressive Industries surge protector/power quality checker happy 🙂

 

17 hours ago, DavePhelps said:

This is very true for the newer Oliver trailers with the built in PI EMS. My 2015 Oliver has no EMS built in so I don't need the neutral/ground plug. I have the portable PI EMS, but would not be using it while boondocking and using the generator.
Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Ahh, yes... For older trailers without the PI EMS you are correct!

However, from a safety perspective I'm not sure what the RVIA thinks about the resulting isolated (normally grounded) neutral / disconnected grounding conductor. A partial/full short to trailer chassis somewhere (due to vibration damage to insulation, failed appliance component, etc.) might result in a "hot skin" situation. Since we're mostly fiberglass that probably translates to hot frame, hot appliance enclosure, or the like.

I hadn't thought about this before... but a possible remediation to this risk might be to either (1) ground the generator / trailer combo when not attached to commercial shorepower (forcing a breaker trip if a sufficient short should occur), or (2) use one of the in-line GFI units designed for generators / extension cords on construction sites to interrupt the power in the case of any small current leak to somewhere other than the neutral return wire, or maybe even both of these?

Are there any RVIA/NEC code gurus here?

[Geronimo John]

On 10/29/2024 at 2:46 PM, Coddiwomple said:

As a side note, I can now run the air conditioner off the 2000 watt inverter.

Good news.  Did the same testing on the ole Dometic Hammer Mill A/C and a Honda 2200.  With soft start it did well.  That said, when you Inverter dies, you should consider getting a 3,000 watt one.  I did and glad I did.  No longer worry too much if my love wants to heat up  her tea when I have the A/C on generator....... 

GJ

[Ronbrink]

On 11/11/2024 at 10:16 AM, jd1923 said:

If I was to run a generator it would be LP only. I would not want to carry gasoline in the TV since it is explosive and smelly, some always spills when I fill tard tools or you need a funnel that will also smell like gas. I would not want the generator to ever have the smell of gas. Also, gasoline as produced and sold today is of rather low quality. You cannot keep it on hand, in a gas can, for more than a month or two before it starts to produce a lacquer-like sludge. You could add Stabil or a like additive to it keep it for 6 months. Gas needs to be used, and LP can sit in a tank for longer periods. I have not read of it going bad. Gas would have to be emptied when your Olivers are in storage for a period of time.

I would buy a propane only unit, if one was available on the market. I would also want it to run on the Oliver LP system with the installed quick disconnects that supply LP run through the onboard regulator if possible. Is anybody doing this already? What kind of LP connection is required?

IMHO, just some features and concerns to think about.

I have two dual fuel generators and generally only run them on propane. The exception would be during hurricane evacuations when our Oliver becomes an escape pod; it is more cost effective to run the Westinghouse 4500W on gasoline for continuous 24-hour durations for several days. Run time is 16 hours on a tank of gas with a/c on. I always carry two WAVIAN (NATO-style) jerrycans, one with ethanol gasoline for the TV and other with non-ethanol for the generator(s), as needed. I have made use of these fuel reserves on several occasions when the TV’s low fuel indicator light comes on; yep, that happens, drives my wife nuts! My SOP is to routinely rotate said fuels rather than stabilize with an additive. Regarding the jerrycans, I have never smelled any fumes, even when enclosed under cap in my former TV and currently inside our Savana van. To your point however, gasoline or any residue in a generator fuel system will reek, so another practice is to run the carb dry, drain the tank and throughly air it out, as necessary. Fuel transfer, especially into a vehicle, can be cumbersome and messy, but I resolved both issues with a portable rechargeable pump. Simply set the gas can on the ground, deploy the pump/hose, flip the switch, easy-peasy! Better yet, once done I let it air out before stowing away in a small Pelican Case to conceal any residual odor.

 

I have my generators set up to either run directly from a dedicated propane tank or utilizing the Oliver’s QC ports. By dedicated, I mean either a spare propane tank carried in the TV or one of the trailer-mounted tanks, in which case the regulator hose would be disconnected. In this instance, remote regulators (primary and secondary) would be utilized. However, if connected to one of the Oliver LP ports, only the secondary regulator comes into play. I modified one of the generator supplied regulators with QC fittings between the two sections, thus enabling multiple usages.

Use of secondary regulator only when running from the Oliver QC port.

Use of both primary and secondary regulators when running from a dedicated propane tank.

I installed GasStop automatic shut-off safety devices on all tanks, great for gauging, as well as priming! Note the propane hose draped over the tank housing at bottom pic.

Aforementioned propane hose is tapped into the forward QC port for better access. I didn’t like having to get down on my knees to hookup. This is a 10’ hose extension.

Extension hose stowed on top of tank and can be deployed via the screw port for added convenience. 

This hose also serves use of my fire pit.

Edited November 13 by Ronbrink