Epoc Lithium "Keep-It-Simple" Upgrade Advice

[tallmandan]

With the 15% off sale that just started on Epoc lithium batteries, I'm considering upgrading my AGMs in my 2020 LEII now rather than waiting on their inevitible decline.  I'm not an engineer or and electrician so I'd like to follow the "keep it simple" principle and do it myself.  I know there have been several threads here about lithium upgrades and most seem to be extensive with new Victron equipment.  It seems I could keep all of my current system and simply replace the batteries and reprogram my inverter and solar charger...I think...

I have the Xantrex Freedom XC 2000W and Zamp ZS-30A solar controller

I'm considering either a single 460aH V2 or two of the 300aH Essential batteries from Epoch.

So can I ask the advice of the incredible brain-trust here --?

• I think 460aH seems enough for what we do but would the two 300aH be worth the extra cost and still be easy to install/manage without additional equipment?
• I don't have a battery disconnect switch in my 2020 LEII so the built-in on/off switch on the 460aH battery is appealing and I wouldn't need a smart shunt...is that correct?
• The 460aH V2 battery comes with a nice wired remote state-of-charge display monitor.  Has anyone installed this in your Oliver and where/how did you do it?
• Any other considerations or modifications that I would/should consider still under the "keep it simple" principle?

Appologize for yet another lithium upgrade post - but I thought this may be valuable to many other owners with aging AGMs like me.  Thanks in advance for your advice!

[Galileo]

I’ll be watching this thread as well. We have whatever the “default” batteries were being supplied in 2022 (“BriteStar” I think is the name) as well as whatever they were supplying as a charger. No solar here - though may do a “suitcase” down the road.

[jd1923]

8 hours ago, tallmandan said:

With the 15% off sale that just started on Epoc lithium batteries, I'm considering upgrading my AGMs in my 2020 LEII now rather than waiting on their inevitible decline.  I'm not an engineer or and electrician so I'd like to follow the "keep it simple" principle and do it myself.  I know there have been several threads here about lithium upgrades and most seem to be extensive with new Victron equipment.  It seems I could keep all of my current system and simply replace the batteries and reprogram my inverter and solar charger...I think...

I have the Xantrex Freedom XC 2000W and Zamp ZS-30A solar controller

I'm considering either a single 460aH V2 or two of the 300aH Essential batteries from Epoch.

So can I ask the advice of the incredible brain-trust here --?

• I think 460aH seems enough for what we do but would the two 300aH be worth the extra cost and still be easy to install/manage without additional equipment?
• I don't have a battery disconnect switch in my 2020 LEII so the built-in on/off switch on the 460aH battery is appealing and I wouldn't need a smart shunt...is that correct?
• The 460aH V2 battery comes with a nice wired remote state-of-charge display monitor.  Has anyone installed this in your Oliver and where/how did you do it?
• Any other considerations or modifications that I would/should consider still under the "keep it simple" principle?

Apologize for yet another lithium upgrade post - but I thought this may be valuable to many other owners with aging AGMs like me.  Thanks in advance for your advice!

Good thought to buy now. This sale will likely repeat, but most often it is 10% OFF. I have worked a complete upgrade of our Oliver to Victron but will keep this simple.

Two 300AH Epoch Essentials fit nicely fit (see pic). Only one 460AH will fit so upgrade possibilities are limited. Unless you're ever considering an inverter upgrade to run A/C for a few hours on inverter, you are correct in thinking 460AH is all you need and double the usable AH in what you have presently in lead acid batteries.

All you need to do is:
1) Install the new batteries in the battery bay. A cut-off switch is preferred by some who park their Oliver in covered storage. I prefer to not add extra connections. I go without and merely remove the negative battery cable when necessary.
2) You need to reconfigure (software setup) both your Xantrex and Zamp SC for LiFePO4 batteries. This is usually simple yet tedious. There are others here who have done so. I have not owned either product but worked the same for our Victron and Blue Sky chargers.
3) I was not aware that the "460aH V2 battery comes with a nice wired remote state-of-charge display monitor." My Epoch Essentials 300AH batteries did not. I can see battery State-of-Charge (SOC) % and +/- Amp usage in both my Victron and Epoch Bluetooth Apps. I use no displays, so nothing is installed into the walls of our inner hull.

Hope this helps! Best wishes, JD

Edited March 13 by jd1923

[jd1923]

As I mentioned, I prefer not to add displays where unnecessary. This is the readout on my Epoch app today. The app is free to download.

I’m presently using 1.8A as she sits. It’s snowing this afternoon, and I rarely plug into shore power, so no sun no charging. Our Victron inverter/charger takes 1A on standby which I leave on 24x7. We also keep outside Courtesy Lights on (0.3A) and parasitic draw another 0.5A. This app is all you really need and perhaps Xantrex and/or Zamp apps. Love the apps! You cannot read a mounted display while towing or sitting at home.

[Galileo]

Very slick!

With Apps - you don’t have to cut new holes!

Only one I’m using so far is the LevelMate Pro+ - but it’s a huge timesaver while setting up!

[jd1923]

59 minutes ago, Galileo said:

Very slick! With Apps - you don’t have to cut new holes! Only one I’m using so far is the LevelMate Pro+ - but it’s a huge timesaver while setting up!

We use The LevelMatePRO app while backing into a campsite! Can't live without our LevelMatePRO, VictronConnect, Epoch Batteries, Ruuvi Station and Mopeka LP tank sensors and Apps!

[tallmandan]

Thanks @jd1923 for the info and sharing your upgrade.  Two 300aH do fit nicely in the slide out tray.  I'm having a difficult time deciding between the single 460aH vs two 300aH.  Here is a picture of the new remote monitor that only comes with the 460aH.  The physical on/off button is also only on the 460aH and seems great as I could just conveniently turn it off comletely during storage under cover.  I agree that the Epoc app seems to be everything I would need for monitoring but I thought maybe I would locate this remote SOC meter inside the pantry or in an upper cabinet with some kind of surface mount to avoid drilling any holes in the fiberglass.

You mention the consideration of upgrading my inverter down the road, allowing it to run the A/C.  I have the Dometic Penguin II 11,000 BTU  with soft-start installed.  Do you know what the estimated run time difference would be between having 460aH vs 600aH? 

Also, were you able to use existing battery cables with your set-up?  I don't have the tools to make those big connectors.

Thanks, Dan

[jd1923]

12 minutes ago, tallmandan said:

Thanks @jd1923 for the info and sharing your upgrade.  Two 300aH do fit nicely in the slide out tray.  I'm having a difficult time deciding between the single 460aH vs two 300aH.  Here is a picture of the new remote monitor that only comes with the 460aH.  The physical on/off button is also only on the 460aH and seems great as I could just conveniently turn it off comletely during storage under cover.  I agree that the Epoc app seems to be everything I would need for monitoring but I thought maybe I would locate this remote SOC meter inside the pantry or in an upper cabinet with some kind of surface mount to avoid drilling any holes in the fiberglass.

You mention the consideration of upgrading my inverter down the road, allowing it to run the A/C.  I have the Dometic Penguin II 11,000 BTU  with soft-start installed.  Do you know what the estimated run time difference would be between having 460aH vs 600aH? 

Also, were you able to use existing battery cables with your set-up?  I don't have the tools to make those big connectors.

Thanks, Dan

You’re welcome Dan.

Not much of a free monitor, nice promo, the app shows much more info.

An Automatic Transfer Switch (ATS) can be added to run the A/C via your 2KW Xantrex, given when not running anything else large. There are posts on that upgrade here. Likely the extra 140AH going to 600AH gives you another hour to 1 1/2 hours. I’m guesstimating the amperage draw of your 11K Dometic. We have the larger 13.5K model. They are as inefficient as they are noisy!

The other thing about going to the 300 AH model, is 2 fit in the tray and 3 for 900AH total fits in the battery bay with the slide out tray removed. You cannot get 2x the 460 AH Essentials no matter what. Going to keep your Oliver for a lot of years, the 300s are a better future-proof upgrade.

You should have all the 4/0 battery cables you need. Attach a picture if you want me to verify. I needed slightly longer bolts than what Epoch included where the cables were doubled up. Simple HW store item. Finished cables can also be purchased on Amazon and companies like Powerwerx and others.

[Derek B]

27 minutes ago, tallmandan said:

Also, were you able to use existing battery cables with your set-up?

Like @jd1923 I went with the 2 - 300AH Epoch, I did need new cables for the parallel connections. My cables from my old lead acid batteries were too short. Like you I did not have the tools to crimp the big lugs and didn’t want to purchase for one job. Look up batterycablesusa.com, they will make cables in any length and gauge you want. I did a few different orders during mods for solar, adding shunt, and batteries and every order shipped within a day of me placing it. 

[Patriot]

12 hours ago, Derek B said:

Like @jd1923 I went with the 2 - 300AH Epoch, I did need new cables for the parallel connections. My cables from my old lead acid batteries were too short. Like you I did not have the tools to crimp the big lugs and didn’t want to purchase for one job. Look up batterycablesusa.com, they will make cables in any length and gauge you want. I did a few different orders during mods for solar, adding shunt, and batteries and every order shipped within a day of me placing it. 

@Derek B any chance you could post up what cable lengths and gauge you ordered from batterycablesusa.com?

It would be nice to have the right length cables prior to ordering the batteries. Like you I see no need to make my own.

This sounds like a solid company to order from. 

Thanks!

Edited March 14 by Patriot

[Ronbrink]

I installed a 460Ah LFP battery bank (SOB) and the ATS @jd1923 mentioned to enable use of my Xantrex Freedom XC 2000W inverter to run the former DPll 11K; a three hour run time would drop the SOC to 50%. I have since replaced the DPll with an Atmos 4.4 15K, but have not had much experience regarding inverter run times, but hopeful the higher efficiency of the upgrade will provide an increase.

Edited March 14 by Ronbrink

[Derek B]

1 hour ago, Patriot said:

any chance you could post up what cable lengths and gauge you ordered

I know this is the 4/0 cable I used, very flexible. I can’t seem to find my order in my email. When I get a chance will take some measurements and post. 
 

[jd1923]

3 hours ago, Patriot said:

@Derek B any chance you could post up what cable lengths and gauge you ordered from batterycablesusa.com?

It would be nice to have the right length cables prior to ordering the batteries. Like you I see no need to make my own.

I would NOT suggest using measurements from other installations. Each OEM installation is different and each new installation is different. Measure your specific needs. I noticed in one installation, the same two Epoch 300s that I purchased but in that installation they put the batteries with posts on opposite sides, which required longer cables. I put the terminal sides of the batteries both on the right side.

I added a 2x4 in-between the two batteries. The Epoch 300s are 7.6" wide and with the 2x4 made the terminals 9.1" apart. My OEM installation included 2 shorty cables that I gave to the guy that bought my LA batteries AND two cables were just under a foot, long enough to reuse. I cleaned them up and applied new heat shrink and did not have to buy any new 4/0 cable for my battery installation. Before and after pics below. You can barely see the original red cable I reused which is far right off the picture. The black one I reused is shown on the left. I the new installation they actually fit better, less arced.

I also added a picture of my tray design. The wood 2x4s made it easy. Notice the rubber toolbox liner underneath. I also used the same rubber to surround each battery so that the batteries would not rub on the wood. 

Edited March 14 by jd1923

[jd1923]

Something important to me in determining this layout was an easy disconnect. I did not want a kill switch. Instead I needed the main B- cable, the long run back to the inverter, to be at the outer edge of the battery bay. With this layout, I can just open the battery tray to remove the closest bolt, hence removing the system ground. The B+ terminals are further in so there is little chance of me hitting them with the 1/2" wrench required to disconnect the batteries (see pic above).

[Patriot]

4 hours ago, jd1923 said:

I would NOT suggest using measurements from other installations. Each OEM installation is different and each new installation is different. Measure your specific needs. I noticed in one installation, the same two Epoch 300s that I purchased but in that installation they put the batteries with posts on opposite sides, which required longer cables. I put the terminal sides of the batteries both on the right side.

I added a 2x4 in-between the two batteries. The Epoch 300s are 7.6" wide and with the 2x4 made the terminals 9.1" apart. My OEM installation included 2 shorty cables that I gave to the guy that bought my LA batteries AND two cables were just under a foot, long enough to reuse. I cleaned them up and applied new heat shrink and did not have to buy any new 4/0 cable for my battery installation. Before and after pics below. You can barely see the original red cable I reused which is far right off the picture. The black one I reused is shown on the left. I the new installation they actually fit better, less arced.

I also added a picture of my tray design. The wood 2x4s made it easy. Notice the rubber toolbox liner underneath. I also used the same rubber to surround each battery so that the batteries would not rub on the wood. 

All good information! Thanks! And thanks @Derek B for the link on the cable supplier. I have not ordered lithium’s yet, but this will be helpful when I do!

[Rivernerd]

On 3/13/2025 at 6:31 PM, tallmandan said:

I'm having a difficult time deciding between the single 460aH vs two 300aH. 

You will never regret having the extra 140aH provided by two 300 aH batteries (600 aH total).  In your shoes, I would go for the two 300 aH, since they fit in the battery tray.  The digital monitor offered with the 460 aH battery adds little value, IMHO, given the availability of the app.

[ScubaRx]

On 3/13/2025 at 8:07 PM, Derek B said:

Like @jd1923 I went with the 2 - 300AH Epoch, I did need new cables for the parallel connections. My cables from my old lead acid batteries were too short. Like you I did not have the tools to crimp the big lugs and didn’t want to purchase for one job. Look up batterycablesusa.com, they will make cables in any length and gauge you want. I did a few different orders during mods for solar, adding shunt, and batteries and every order shipped within a day of me placing it. 

The hydraulic crimping tool cost me $35 off eBay and I’ve used it for dozens of projects other than making 4/0 cables. 

 

 

[tallmandan]

@jd1923 and @Derek B, thank you for the information and photos!

I have read that there are possible concerns about charging lithium batteries via the vehicle 7-pin connection - that lithium can draw too much and damage the vehicle alternator.  Is this an issue I should worry about.  Disconnect the DC charging wire? Did either of you make any modification?

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, tallmandan said:

@jd1923 and @Derek B, thank you for the information and photos!

I have read that there are possible concerns about charging lithium batteries via the vehicle 7-pin connection - that lithium can draw too much and damage the vehicle alternator.  Is this an issue I should worry about.  Disconnect the DC charging wire? Did either of you make any modification?

It would not damage the alternator whether the engine is running or not. When the engine and alternator are running, the B+ trailer connection is a relatively light 12 AWG wire. In the situation where high AH LiFePO4 batteries are down on SOC (and voltage), after days of camping, this connection can pull amps greater than this gauge wire can handle, which can result in overheating and could burn. And there are likely other scenarios where this connection could be an issue.

This is why many of us have installed DC-DC chargers, for charging house batteries while towing, using 4 AWG (or greater gauge) wire. Search this forum for "DC-DC" if interested in these posts.

Disconnecting the B+ black wire from the 7-pin connector is easy. Something I did as soon as I found it, even before we upgraded to LiFePO4. Find your 12V+ bus which is often under the streetside bed. In our hull, it was the black wire left side of picture where you see the Phillips is unscrewed (pic 1). Afterwards, I insulated/taped the end and laid it down on the floor below. Also, on our older hull there was no extra 20A breaker as this schematic shows. Ours was hardwired to the bus.

But first step, check the 7-pin wiring diagram (pic 2) and find the B+ black and B- white wires on your trailer 7-pin plug. Use a test light or voltmeter to see 12V+ is present between these two wires. After you disconnect your black wire at the bus, check again to find NO voltage present to see if you truly disconnected the correct wire.

[Derek B]

3 hours ago, tallmandan said:

Did either of you make any modification?

I disconnected the black wire from the 7-pin connector itself. Pulled back the connector housing, disconnected and taped the wire and tucked under housing upon reinstallation. The other end is still connected at the bus. 

[topgun2]

Another way to accomplish this disconnect of the charging circuit from the tow vehicle is to simply remove the fuse for this circuit.  I know that this is available in F-150 Fords (sorry but I don't remember the exact fuse off the top of my head) and would be marginally surprised if this is not available on other similar trucks.

Of course - if you tow more trailers with some that are not equipped with lithium batteries then you might have to remember to re-plug in that fuse on those occasions.

Bill

Edited March 17 by topgun2
spelling

[Ronbrink]

22 hours ago, tallmandan said:

@jd1923 and @Derek B, thank you for the information and photos!

I have read that there are possible concerns about charging lithium batteries via the vehicle 7-pin connection - that lithium can draw too much and damage the vehicle alternator.  Is this an issue I should worry about.  Disconnect the DC charging wire? Did either of you make any modification?

Disconnect with use of LFP batteries; a DC-DC charger can be used to charge LFPs when underway, if so desired. 

Edited March 16 by Ronbrink

[Jps190]

Consider redundancy also.  With 2 batteries you aren’t dead in the water if one fails.  With one 460 you would be SOL.  Not that these batteries fail that often but it can happen as with all electronics.

 

John

[jd1923]

For those considering this sale, the 15% offer ends Tuesday 3/18! 

This is the distributor I went with vs. purchasing from Epoch direct. They have the 15% OFF listed for Epoch (see pic). When I ordered from them, it included free shipping and no sales tax was charged (like saving another 8.65%).

Cannot be sure if this is still true. They are a Colorado company, so @tallmandan also living in CO would likely be taxed, but buying from a local company is also a good thing. 

Looks like everybody is pushing you to buy two 300s! You should be happy with your decision either way! 😂

[tallmandan]

Ok so I brought my trailer home from storage today.  JD’s battery set up has a simple cable configuration.  I have more spaghetti in mine (photo) - guessing this is due to solar charging?  Do you not have solar, @jd1923?

 Looking at my main negative cable, I’m doubtful it’s long enough to reach toward far enough forward to pull out the tray as in JDs photo.  If they reach,  I suppose I would just connect all the wires to main +\- terminals and stack them…? 

Now wondering if the single 460aH battery would keep it more simple with just two connection posts that could be oriented deep in the tray…

I also pulled the bathroom vanity access to see how easy it would be to disconnect the 7-pin black charging wire.  I expected to find a bus bar but instead I have this (photo) junction with some kind of permanent connector I’m not familiar with.  The black appears to be under the red rubber cover and could be unscrewed I think.  Would this be right? Has anyone done this?  

Feeling less confident…
Really appreciate the help from this group! Thx