Fender problem with larger rims/tires and E-Z Flex

[Foy_Mirna]

First, a big thanks to John E Davies for helping me think about this problem.

 

Our 2017 Elite II, Hull #227 was one of the first to get the larger rims and tires standard which are great but, when I added on the E-Z Flex Suspension System as an option, the geometry of the wheel fender changed and is off-center now. It's worth checking your clearance if you have not noticed this before. Or as John points out it might just be my Trailer.

 

[attachment file=Oliver Fender.jpg]

 

The bigger rims & tries with the E-Z Flex push the entire wheel assembly forward and out of center in the fender wells. What this does is put the tire less then 2″ from the fiberglass. I have already had to replace one fender do to the tire hitting it and tearing the whole fender off.

 

[attachment file=Tire and Fender.jpg]

 

At the time, Oliver thought I must have picked up something from the road that caused the damage. They did replace it and charged me their cost. It was not until I was clean the rims that I noticed the clearance issue. In pointing this out to Jason with photos, he agreed and refunded my money. Solid customer service! Got to say I love Oliver and how they stand behind their work.

 

Jason told me they were working on a new fender and would let me know. While I have not heard back on this, I showed this to Scott Oliver at the Rally and he had not seen it before. The trip to Lake Guntersville has this starting to happen again on both sides. I am going to Hohenwald in June and will see if I can get them to address it. Hope this is helpful to others.

 

 

[KountryKamper]

Looking at the EZ Flex I don't understand how it changed the geometry. The front mounting point is the same. I see how the larger tires are a problem if things are not centered.

 

[ScubaRx]

...Our 2017 Elite II, Hull #227 was one of the first to get the larger rims and tires standard...

 

Our 2014 (hull # 050) came with Michelin XPS RIB LT225/75R16’s. What is the current standard tire size?

[KountryKamper]

Foy_Mirna wrote:

…Our 2017 Elite II, Hull #227 was one of the first to get the larger rims and tires standard…

Our 2014 (hull # 050) came with Michelin XPS RIB LT225/75R16’s. What is the current standard tire size?

 

Ours has the same size.

[rideandfly]

Same size on Hull #75 LT225/75R16 BF Goodrich Commercial TA tires with EZ flex.

 

Here's a calculator for tire size comparison:

 

https://tiresize.com/comparison/

[Mike and Carol]

Same size on Hull #75 LT225/75R16 BF Goodrich Commercial TA tires with EZ flex.

Here’s a calculator for tire size comparison:

https://tiresize.com/comparison/

 

My set up as well.

[rideandfly]

Foy,

 

Looks like tires in your photos (using thick reading glasses) are LT225/75R16, same as our Ollie. One difference with our Ollie, Hull #75 has 5200lb axles with 5 leaf springs. I installed our EZ flex system.

[Foy_Mirna]

You could very well be right.  I was speculating as to what would cause the off center.  EZ Flex was an add on option for us.  So that leaves the larger tire which I was told came on the 2017 Elite II.  Even that has be thinking again the the space to the front tire and the back tire would be a problem but it is only the front.  Jason E is going to look at it when we go to Hohenwald.

[Foy_Mirna]

You are correct we have LT225/75R16.  Some that rules out tires.  Maybe the location on the frame where the axel assembly was mounted?

[rideandfly]

You are correct we have LT225/75R16. Some that rules out tires. Maybe the location on the frame where the axel assembly was mounted?

 

I'm sure Jason will check axle mount locations and both axle locations in June. That's where I would look first, it's a process of elimination.

[sailorashore]

Foy & Mirna:

 

Assuming that the fiberglass hull is properly positioned on the frame, looks like the steel subframe assembly may have been misaligned (1-2 inches too far aft [or forward?]) when it was mounted to the aluminum frame. (I suspect that the suspension brackets are welded on before the steel subframe assembly is bolted on to the aluminum frame.)

 

Sounds like a warranty issue. May be possible for the factory to pull the bolts and move the steel subframe assembly forward on the aluminum frame. Hope you get a good resolution.

 

Sorry you have this problem. All of us are in your debt for your role at the Lake Guntersville rally.

 

Best regards,

John Shkor

SailorsAshore

[Mainiac]

I have hull # 211 with the Michelin tires, and factory installed E-Z Flex. We have put over 10,000 miles, and some pretty rough roads with no problems. We will measure our systems tomorrow and inspect. More to follow...

[ScubaRx]

...May be possible for the factory to pull the bolts and move the steel subframe assembly forward on the aluminum frame...

 

The steel subframe is mounted to the aluminum main frame with bolts going from one side to the other rather than top to bottom. When the body is dropped onto the frame it covers the two front most and the two rear most bolts precluding simply “unbolting” the sub frame.

 

However, it could be accomplished by detaching and supporting the body then lowering and removing the entire frame from underneath.

 

The subframe could then be relocated on the main frame and the process reversed.

 

But an easier and far less costly fix would be to simply rework the rear edges of the fender skirts to give the proper clearance.

[Foy_Mirna]

Hey John!

 

Very kind of you.  I truly enjoy my part at the Rally.  Coy has me back for 2019 and we are hard at work thinking about how to make next year bigger and better.  Daniel Oliver is going to look into this when we get to Hohenwald June.  I will report back.

[Foy_Mirna]

Hey Steve,

 

You may be right.  I did look and measure location of bolts, they are the same, meaning no misalignment.  Hand-made vs. a robot always has character which makes it unique and one of a kind.  I value that and am sure Oliver will find a way to solve my problem.

[Raspy]

Foy,

 

If one side of the suspension truck is mounted farther back on the frame than on the other side, the trailer will not track straight. You can look for this in your rear view mirrors while driving. Sight back along the side of the trailer, looking through your mirrors, and project where that line hits the road, way behind you. As though you were sigting along the seam line looking aft. Or, put another way, look for objects that the rear corner doesn't quite obscure, way behind you. Do this on both sides, as you drive and you'll see if you are looking at spots way off to one side of the road, or not. If tracking straight, you should be looking at spots nearly straight behind you on the road. I've noticed that mine is slightly off, but not enough to worry about.

 

If your right side wheels are farther back, you'll be looking at a spots to the right of the road.

 

From the picture you posted, it looks like both wheels are aft of their ideal position, but if only one was aft, the one hitting the fender, it could be a broken spring center bolt ar a broken leaf.

 

Another possibility is that the leaf springs on one side are backward. Sometimes, springs are directional and the center bolt is not on center. A quick measurement from the axle to the rear spring mounting bolt, on each side would confirm this is not the problem.

 

Another quick check to add some data would be to park on a level surface and look at the shackles. Do this after stopping in a straight line so the affect of cornering doesn't factor in. Are all four resting at about the same angle?

 

At the factory, they install zinc discs on the frame just ahead of the truck frame, on the bottom of the aluminum rail. This is about the diameter of a quarter and 1/4" thick. On mine, it looks like a mounting reference point with both truck rails pushed up against it. Look at yours and see if there is a gap on one side.

 

Finally, if you can't find the discrepancy, get out a tape measure and measure from the ball, or a suitable center point up front, to the front of the tires on each side.

 

I suspect the truck is crooked with one side farther aft.

[Foy_Mirna]

John, thank you for all the thought you out into my situation. Both side of my Oliver are out of center from the fender and are exactly the same - tires to far forward. I have had to replace the curb side finder and now it looks like the driver side will need to be replaced. I have looked at the tracking on the trailer many time when driving (most of the time from feeling like it not back there:) and I have to say it is on the money both left to right and right to left. I'm going to get under the frame today and find some clear reference points and take measurements. I will also look at the shackles as you suggested. Standby I will update later today.

[John E Davies]

I would really like to see the factory offer this as an option.

 

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Suspension/Lippert-Components/LC87220.html#exp-productdetails=.all-description

 

I am thinking about doing this just to get the 2 inches of lift without altering the factory suspension. I could use a little extra departure angle (rear bumper scrapes) but the alignment capability would be a big bonus.

 

If you don’t mind the lift, the 1/2 inch adjustment would probably correct your issues. I asked Jason to comment, and if it would affect the frame warranty significantly.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

[Raspy]

John,

 

That kit will not fix Foy's problem of both axles needing to move in the same direction and the same amount. This is because the kit shown does not move the center equalizer pivot forward or aft, only down. The excentrics are only good for a very small tracking correction. Look at the photos carefully and you'll see that one picture shows the shackles sitting nearly straight intead of hanging the axle. This will lead to them flipping over where the spring is not hanging, but pushing on the shackle. If both axles were moved, the shackles would also be uneven and the equalizer would not work right.

 

This kit is only good for very minor tracking corrections and for lifting axles that are already correctly aligned.

[Foy_Mirna]

I showed this to Scott Oliver at the Rally and he had not seen it before. The trip to Lake Guntersville has this starting to happen again on both sides. I am going to Hohenwald in June and will see if I can get them to address it. Hope this is helpful to others.

 

Hello All,

 

I wanted to update those of you following this thread on our fenders.  We had a service call in Hohenwald last week and I got the opportunity to met Daniel Oliver as he wanted to see our trailer and what was going on with the fenders.

 

He introduced himself and went right to work crawling under our trailer and looking at the fenders.  5 minutes later he was back in front of me saying - "That's not right.  Sub-assembly (this is what Oliver calls the tandem wheel carriage) is mounted too far forward by almost an inch."  He then went right on to tell me the solution  "Going to order you a new sub assembly with no mounting holes drilled in it.  This way we don't re-drill your frame and weaken it. Instead we will drill the sub assembly one inch back, to make it all perfect"  I have to say Daniel knows his product and made me feel very good about how Oliver was going to address my problem.  Few company's admit their mistakes and even fewer fix them on their on dine.  Very happy and proud to be a Oliver Owner.  It will require another trip back to Hohenwald but, we love TN and it's just another reason to go camping.

 

One interesting note to share: Parked right next to our trailer in the factory service area was the Muckle's trailer.  This is the trailer that made us Oliver owners.  The Muckle's spend two hours with us that day and it was the best orientation we ever got.  I still hear Gary talking to me every time I setup or pack-up our trailer.

 

Onward!

[Mike and Carol]

Foy, good to hear about the excellent service.

 

The Muckles, Slushers and Landrums convoyed through San Antonio in January or February of 2016. We had dinner with them at Pete Marks house then saw their trailers the next day. We had already ordered our trailer, but Gary, Lee and Steve all had great words of wisdom (as did Tali, Jona and Teri!). We all become part of the Oliver sales force pretty quickly. Mike

[Mainiac]

This begs the question: evidently the sub-frame is not made in house, and comes pre-drilled. Surely they must use some type of jig to properly postion the unit before drilling the frame? How many others out there were drilled and mounted wrong? Did he indicate that maybe the sub-frame was predrilled in the wrong place? Would it be possible to get a measurement from a known reference point to a properly mounted sub-frame so those others out there could check ours? To the naked eye, an inch out might not be obvious. I have seen the jig they make the frame in, and have assumed the sub-frame was mounted there, as they were mounting axles before flipping the frame and jig over...

[STEVEnBETTY]

Foy, thank you for your follow up, just another great example of Oliver's outstanding customer support, they could have tried all kinds of jury rigged fixes I.e. Modifying the fenders, re drilling the existing subframe etc...

Maniac, I wouldn't overthink this issue, if foy's fenders hadn't been damaged, he would have never known he had an problem, I've towed mine (219) over 12,000 miles and upon hearing of this problem checked my fenders for damage, and when I couldn't find any quit thinking about it. The subframe being located forward or aft a few inches, can change weight distribution by a few pounds (tractor trailers subframes are designed to move several feet to redistribute weight),but as long as nothing is making contact, and the trailer is tracking straight, no harm done.

STEVE

 

 

[ScubaRx]

Oliver makes the subframes. They then send them out to be hot-dip galvanized.

[Raspy]

This begs the question: evidently the sub-frame is not made in house, and comes pre-drilled. Surely they must use some type of jig to properly postion the unit before drilling the frame? How many others out there were drilled and mounted wrong? Did he indicate that maybe the sub-frame was predrilled in the wrong place? Would it be possible to get a measurement from a known reference point to a properly mounted sub-frame so those others out there could check ours? To the naked eye, an inch out might not be obvious. I have seen the jig they make the frame in, and have assumed the sub-frame was mounted there, as they were mounting axles before flipping the frame and jig over…

 

I see no reason to go measuring, looking for a problem that has not shown up on it's own. Foy's trailer had an obvious mistake. Next, everyone will be looking for a 1/4" difference somwhere and demanding a new frame. Relax. This is a one-off mistake that actually was a problem. Good on Oliver to fix it. If your wheels aren't rubbing and the trailer tows straight, you're golden.

 

Oliver builds trailer frames for other brands at their other location and I bet that is where the suspension truck/subframe is produced. They can easily call over and order a new one that is not pre-drilled. Most likely, the guys on the line over there, just reversed a couple of members and welded them in. Their proposed fix makes a lot of sense. I bet they could even just remove Foy's truck and re-drill it to the proper spec, but they instead chose to replace it completely.

 

Foy, I'm curious about the small zinc anode washers that are mounted just ahead of the truck. Are those there and where they should be? It would be interesting if they drilled the aluminum frame incorrectly instead of the truck.

 

Either way, I'm glad they are taking care of it.