2017 Honda Ridgeline as a tow vehicle for the Elite II

[Trainman]

As some of you may of may not know the 2017 Ridgeline is what I would call on the border line of being able to handle the Oliver Elite II. The Ridgeline is rated at 5000# tow weight and 600# tong weight. It's GVWR is 6019#, the door plate also says GVWR Front 3131# and Rear 3229 so not sure if you add the two together, or just use the 6019# figure. I guess my dilemma here is my 2017 Ridgeline only has 11,500 miles on it and I hate to trade it off so soon and with that few of miles on it. We don't overload our trailer and we carry very little water on board as boondocking is not to our liking, plus we will not have solar panels and extra batteries on board, thus cutting down weight for our style of camping. I would think with our trailer lightly loaded and what we carry in the Ridgeline including ourselves we can stay under the 6019# weight. That's why I say, we are close to the max limit, I have yet to find anyone that pulls an Oliver with a Ridgeline, but have read about some that use the Tacoma as a tow vehicle with good results. I have in the past pulled a 14' utility trailer loaded with two UTV's weighting around 4000# plus the trailer and the Ridgeline has handled it what I would call favorable conditions. I guess I could start out with the Ridgeline and it doesn't workout, I can always upgrade to a 1/2 or 3/4 ton pickup. What do you think.

 

 

 

Trainman

[Mike and Carol]

I towed with a 2012 Tacoma for the first 6K miles of my Elite II. It had a tow weight of 6500lbs and tongue weight of 650lbs. If the Honda has a tow weight of 5000lbs you are already at or near the limit as it comes off the factory floor. I would be concerned with suspension and brake limitations with a 5000lb weight limit. I think “stopping” and handling curves and downhills is more important than “going”.

 

I traded my Tacoma (100K+ miles) for a larger truck to get a larger gas tank and more load capacity. I was stopping every 150 miles for gas with the Tacoma. We don’t really carry much more now, but it’s just nice not to be pushing the limits.

 

Since it is such a low mileage vehicle it might get a decent sale price or trade in for something more capable. Mike

[BackofBeyond]

I currently have a very nice and well maintained 2004 GMC ext cab,  1500, 4x4 with the 5.3 (295 hp, 290 torque) auto trans w/tow haul mode. .  I have put 160k on it in numerous situations, from hauling tandem axle trailers loaded with lumber or loaded with  tractors and mulch,  it has always done fine. Its rated for 7000 lbs. towing and up to 1000 lbs. hitch with a weight distributing hitch.  From a chassis standpoint it does well up to its limits, but lacks in the engine department. Flat land, slight hills it does ok, nothing to brag about.  However  steep inclines and such drive the auto shifting up and down that drives me crazy and runs the rpms up, and the fuel mileage way down.  I knew the Elite II would be at its limits.

 

We picked up our new Oliver EII Thursday in Hohenwald and drove back to our home about 2 hrs. away. It was unloaded, and as stated on the paperwork 5200 lbs of weight.   Sure enough, (with Anderson hitch) chassis wise it handled fine, was well balanced and felt solid. But the 5.3 was aggressively shifting up and down  to keep 55 mph in the hills, -- on the  flats it was ok, but in the hills it was not, just as I expected.  I guess it was wishful thinking, me hoping I had enough power. If I was going to stay close by, or move to Florida, the old GMC would be fine, but alas, we have plans to show the Oliver the rest of the north American continent, so for us, a more powerful truck is in order. Not sure what it will be, but it will be diesel, and 3/4 ton single RW.

 

My point is that although the weight capacities may be in line, you may not be happy with the towing power and performance. Which I believe is just as important a consideration. Hope your situation works out.

[RnA]

I will caveat all the info below in that it is based on my experience with around 1/2 dozen other trailers but not an Oliver. We pick up ours next month. The weight ratings still apply though.

 

Besides the limitations you have mentioned, consider Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (GCVWR) of the TV (weight of TV plus trailer). I have towed various trailers with a 5.7L Tundra rated to tow 10,100 lbs. Personally 7000 lbs is the upper limit of what I want to tow with it. (I have gone up to 9,000 lbs with my tractor on a flat bed but that was within a 50 mile radius and fairly flat roads.). Although my specific Tundra has that tow rating of 10,100 lbs, when I camp I’m limited to 8,800 lbs due to GCVWR. I am at the upper limit (measured) of 7,200 lbs for the TV loaded (passengers, full gas, camper shell, canoe, bikes, stove, generator, tool kit, jumper cables, etc., etc.). Take the 7,200 lbs away from the 16,000 lbs GCVWR and I’m left with a 8,800 lbs tow limit not the 10,100 lbs limit manufactures like to advertise and most people seem to focus on. With the Oliver at 7,000 lbs GVWR I’ll be at 14,200 lbs GCVW. In my experience not a comfortable place to be. Particularly when trying to accelerate and merge into traffic. If I have to merge going uphill it gets worse. Throw in some altitude and it gets even worse. I ran through the above math just to give you some ideas to consider. Not the same loads as you have but still some considerations. As Mike said you really need to think about stopping as well. The Tundra has pretty good brakes on it but I did smoke check the rear brakes once while towing 6,000 lbs with a lot of mountainous travel. No damage, just had to pull over and let them cool for a good long while. Besides braking another consideration is TV wheel base. All else being equal, the longer wheelbase of the TV, the less likely it will be to sway.

 

Regarding your question on axle weights; for a TV the GVWR should always be less than the sum of the axle limits. This allows you to distribute the weight differently to each axle limit but not to exceed the GVWR. Just a note, trailers GVWR can exceed the sum of the axle ratings because some of that weight is carried on the tongue.

 

When we pick up our Ollie next month I’ll see how the Tundra does, but I fully expect to trade up to a 2500 diesel GMC or Dodge in the near future. I’ll keep my Tundra for daily use.

 

Hope that helps.

 

[bowhun2r]

This was a perfect first post topic for me....

 

 

 

@rna you have nearly the exact setup we have (at least the truck part for now).  2018 Tundra Crewmax and hoping to tour the plant and purchase an EII next month.  I plan on putting an S/C on my truck (I've done that on two previous Toyota trucks...big difference and there is that fun factor...).  However, as you noted I'll run out of payload before pulling power.  Love my Toyotas, unfortunately the payload is the limiting factor.  I'll beef up the rear suspension because with the TRD pro suspension I put on it, already squats a bit with bike rack/bikes and some gear in the bed.  Nothing that some shackles and firestone airbags can't fix...still doesn't increase payload but will ensure my truck is level when hitched up.

 

I plan on taking my Tundra to a weigh station to get an accurate weight for piece of mind.  I've done a lot of mods to the truck that no doubt added weight and my door sticker likely is at least a few hundred pounds off from actual weight.  I found Oliver by doing a ton of research (as most people on forums do...) actually on the Escape forum.  I was interested in their small 5th wheel, but as you noted (and I eventually learned) payload on these trucks is pretty small.  That's the trade off from a smooth ride unloaded compared to say an F250 unloaded.

 

 

 

Great info in your post and we are looking forward to making a trip to TN in the coming weeks.

[Mike and Carol]

This was a perfect first post topic for me….

 

 

 

@rna I plan on putting an S/C on my truck (I’ve done that on two previous Toyota trucks…big difference and there is that fun factor…).

 

I had a TRD Supercharger on my 2012 Tacoma. I understand fun factor! Mike

[STEVEnBETTY]

Here are my stats and my certified numbers for our 2017 elite2. T.v. Is a 2014 Ford F-150, 5 liter motor 3:31 rear end ratio. Gvrw 7100, gcrw 13,100, front axle 3,450 rear 4,050, trl empty from the factory 5,050 with most of the options ( 4 agm batteries solar etc) except I stayed with the 20lb propane tanks to keep down the tongue weight.

 

actual weights: truck fully loaded and ready to go ( generator, case of bottle water, way too many tools, kayaks,bikes and in general more than we need for months long trips) front axle 3,140 rear 2,840 gross 5,980

 

Hooked up and ready to camp( full fresh water tank, 6 gal water heater) front 2,860 rear 3,580 trailer 5,480 gross 11,920. I am 1,180 under gross, 420  under rear axle. All of these numbers are cat scale certified, it's alright to go all the way to your maximum ratings but don't exceed them. I have pulled this trl over 12,000 miles with this setup with no weight distribution hitch, but I did add a hayes sway master because all trailers are susceptible to sway.

 

The oliver is a very well balanced trailer, all the weight is centered and very low , it tows exceptionally well, I would try it with your ridgeline, but do yourself a favor and weigh it on a scale, most truck stops have them and it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rideandfly]

Here's 10/17 CAT scales results.

 

Tundra's weight with two souls on board and some gear on board.  When Tundra was weighed, it had 12 additional gallons (6lbs per gallon) of gasoline on board compared to the Tundra's weight with Ollie on the previous day.  For camping trips will have a couple hundred additional pounds of gear in the Tundra.

 

Tundra's GVWR 7100 pounds

 

GCWR 16,000 pounds

 

Front Axle GAWR 4000 pounds

 

Rear Axle GAWR 4150 pounds

 

 

Following is Tundra/Ollie combined weight with empty Ollie water tanks. This Ollie does not have solar panels and equipped with two 12V AGM batteries.  Currently working to further reduce Ollie's ready to camp weight. Working on decreasing driver's weight, too!  :)

 

Tundra's weight less 12 gallons of fuel with some gear and two souls on board 6108 pounds

 

Ollie's weight in following scale results 4912 pounds by subtracting Tundra's weight of 6108 pounds from Tundra/Ollie combined weight of 11,020 pounds

 

Backed into tongue weight by subtracting trailer axle weight from trailer weight 432 pounds

 

 

When we purchased Ollie, towed it home with a 2013 Nissan Frontier with 4.0L engine. A vehicle pulled out in front of us on the way home resulting in an emergency stop, the rig stopped safely. This rig achieved 15MPG in the TN/NC mountain interstates. Negative, had too much rear end sag for my liking. Installed rear axle Timbren bump stops later.  This modification got rid of the sag, but resulted in a harsh ride with trailer connected. Installed rear differential Firestone air bags on another tow vehicle, when towing yields a softer ride, in my opinion. Another negative, not as much power as the 5.7L Tundra.

 

Tundra negative, factory installed brake controller with factory computer upgrade still does not work well. Going to install Tekonsha Prodigy P3 Trailer Brake Controller soon.

 

 

 

 

[RnA]

The specs I found online for the 2017 Ridgeline AWD RTL are 9986 GCVR (GCVWR) and 4445 Curb Weight. I don’t know what your trim level is so I picked RTL which should be somewhere in the middle. If the CW is using EPA approach it includes “nominal” fuel, say half tank (10 gals) and no pax. S If your E2 ends up at 4900 you are left with: 9986-4445-4900=641 lbs of stuff. If pax are only 300 pounds and filling up gas adds another 65 pounds you have 276 pounds for food, water, clothes, chairs, rv mat, lamps, cookware, bedding, electronics and what ever else you travel with. You’ll be supprised how quick it adds up.

 

You may squeak by legally and it may be ok for the flats and short haul. Some rough numbers to consider for your situation. If you decide to go that route weigh the rigs like Steve says. Let us know what you decide and how it works out.

 

I can understand any hesitatation with you giving up the Honda. Hondas/ Acuras have been the most reliable vehicles I and the rest of my family have had. Toyotas have been a close second so I really don’t want to give up on Tundra but for my towing situation and comfort level I’m ready to.

 

- Randy

[STEVEnBETTY]

I prefer to have a little weight cushion when towing, but it's not really necessary, when the manufacturers publish weight limits, it's okay to go right up to it. The newer vehicles are much more capable than past offerings, a previous set up was a 2003 Silverado with the small v/8 pulling a sob 27 ft travel trl, everything was within specs but that truck was over matched, fast forward to 2014 (current truck) and there's no comparison, with close to the same displacement motor, it has 100 additional hp,(can't remember the torque stats) and a six speed transmission. The transmission made the biggest difference, with additional speeds it lets the motor perform at the peak torque and unlike the older automatics the torque converter "locks" up in every gear and so far it's never heated up even on some pretty good hills. I'll see how it does in a couple weeks, I haven't been over 10,000 feet with it yet, but that will be tested shortly.

 

Steve

[KountryKamper]

Trainman

 

I fell your pain. We just upgraded a 2016 Tundra with 20K miles for a GMC 2500HD diesel. Our payload was maxed out and I wanted to add a camper shell. Also on a recent trip out west, the downhills with the Tundra in some really steep areas was not what I hoped it would do. 2nd gear and 4000 RPM just so I did not have to ride the brakes all the way down. Power on uphills was not a problem.

 

The 2500 is a beast of a truck and does not have the car like ride a 1500 does. When hooked to the trailer it is such a relaxing tow that it makes our trips much easier and I arrive more relaxed. The exhaust brake makes downhills effortless. A 2500 brings other issues to get used to like parking and turning radius. It does get better gas mileage then the Tundra and has a longer fuel range.

 

We travel light compared to most people we know and our 2018 E2 with most of our stuff except clothes weighs 5300 lbs without any water onboard, 20 lb propane tanks, 4 AGM, and no solar just to give you a idea. Fully loaded on long trips it's around 5400 lbs.

[RnA]

Thanks Steve. Good info on the trannies. Let us know how things go on your trip. Stay safe. - Randy

[Trainman]

Thanks for a the replies, I have pretty much come to the conclusion that the Ridgeline is going to be too close to max conditions and the better choice would just be to upgrade to a 1/2 or 3/4 ton V8 pickup with a GVWR rating of 10,000 lbs. or so.  I would rather go with the 3/4 ton if it can handle the Legacy 23 without the WDH, I think it can handle it. Do any of you out there pull without a WDH and are you using a 1/2 or 3/4 pickup. Thanks for the replies.

 

 

 

trainman

[Rumline]

I'm sure some of you are getting sick of me writing this, but for insurance purposes your trailer GVWR must* be less than or equal to the tow rating of your tow vehicle.

 

* This may vary between insurance companies but it was the same guidance I received from inquiring with claims departments of both State Farm and Geico.  However it's a pretty low bar to meet so I consider it a minimum requirement.

[KountryKamper]

Do any of you out there pull without a WDH and are you using a 1/2 or 3/4 pickup. Thanks for the replies.

trainman

 

 

Any 2500 can legally pull a E2 without a WDH. On a 1500 you better check the manual because most say anything over 5000 lb use a WDH.

[Trainman]

Thanks, now you have 162 Thanks, pretty much what you said is where I am today on thinking.

 

trainman

[John E Davies]

Thanks, now you have 162 Thanks, pretty much what you said is where I am today on thinking.

???trainman, what are you trying to say? You need to use the “Quote” button when you reply to a specific comment, or it may come out meaningless since we don’t know who you are responding to. You can also delete certain parts of the quoted message if you like for brevity.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[ScottyGS]

Ok... here is my $0.02 on the towing question.

 

There is only ONE authority on how much you can pull with any tow vehicle and that is the manual for that TV.   And you should read the fine print.  Most half ton pickups will brag about their towing capacity.   My F-150 is rated for 9,900 lbs.   BUT... when you read all the fine print you find that that figure drops 50% if you do NOT use a weight distributing hitch.    Can a half ton pick up pull the LE2 without a WDH?   in my opinion... all day long.  But you should read this article if you plan to do that.     https://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/get-sued-tow-trailer-with-pickups/

 

As far as I am concerned the Anderson is worth it for the liability issue alone.

 

Good Luck running the numbers.

 

Scotty

 

 

 

 

[Raspy]

Thanks for a the replies, I have pretty much come to the conclusion that the Ridgeline is going to be too close to max conditions and the better choice would just be to upgrade to a 1/2 or 3/4 ton V8 pickup with a GVWR rating of 10,000 lbs. or so. I would rather go with the 3/4 ton if it can handle the Legacy 23 without the WDH, I think it can handle it. Do any of you out there pull without a WDH and are you using a 1/2 or 3/4 pickup. Thanks for the replies.

 

trainman  

 

Here are my weights and truck specs from another thread.  My Oliver turns out to be heavier than I thought it was and I don't have an extreme amount of gear.   I have a 1 ton Ram, but the 3/4 is very similar with lighter springs.  I do not use a WDH or have any sway control device.  This is what I posted and it might help you decide"

 

http://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/hitch-questions/page/3/