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Any thoughts on the Land Rover Discovery or Ford Excursion/Lincoln Navigator?

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(Disclaimer: Pardon us if this question has been asked before.  We've used the search function, but came up with nothing...either it isn't there, or the search engine couldn't find it. )

 

We're trying to come up with an appropriate tow vehicle for an Elite II carrying most of the options.  We thought we'd get the F150 until we test drove it and realized that it was WAY longer than anything we wanted to negotiate around parking lots and cities.  Our current car is a VW GTI, so you can imagine how big a change anything larger will be.  We are a one car family since, other than travel, we put no miles on our vehicles, so it doesn't make sense to keep a tow vehicle AND another car.  We particularly want a vehicle with as much of the new driver assist technology as possible, to help us deal with the bigger vehicle, trailer, and our aging reflexes.

 

So, we've looked at a lot of SUVs (at least the ones smaller than a truck!), and have found the Audi Q7 and the Land Rover Discovery.  The Audi is mostly off of our list because it doesn't have a spare, and we don't want to deal with trying to tow with a flat run-flat tire, or finding the Audi-specific tires that fit their rims.  We did a fair amount of research on the towing capabilities of both, and found that both of them have something in the owner's manual that indicates that the hitch ball can't be more than 6.5" from the linch pin on the hitch receiver.  This basically means that you have to buy their hitch, which has a 2" rise, nowhere near enough to get up to the Ollie's coupler height.   We can't find any rise hitches with less than 8.5" from ball to linch pin.  Seems like a deal breaker, but the wording in the Discovery manual made it sound more like a recommendation than a necessity, so we asked the dealer to float it up their service chain to see what they had to say about it.  (They clearly don't have many customers who do any serious towing with these, based on their inability to answer questions and the fact that they never order spec Discoveries with the tow package.)

 

We were wondering if anyone here tows with a Discovery, or has looked at it seriously, or has any thoughts about it.  The only other options we see as possibilities, and they're not out yet, are the new 2020 Mercedes GLE 450, and possibly the new 2020 Lincoln Aviator.

 

Thanks for your input and suggestions!!

 

-Kathryn and Chad (my silent partner)


LEII Hull #517    |   Lincoln Navigator Reserve with Heavy Duty Trailer Tow Package and owner installed OEM rear "splash guards" (aka mud flaps)  - "The Beast"

 

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Welcome to the forum, Search is not very useful, as you found out.

 

How many miles do you plan to drive, towing? Not towing?

 

Do you plan to go into the high mountains of the West?

 

Do you live and drive in a big city?

 

I can't comment directly on the Disco, other than the fact that nobody buys these with towing equipment should raise a HUGE red flag. These are not reliable vehicles in the best of situations. I would never chose to tow more than a small teardrop or utility trailer with any Land Rover model... you won’t find a shop that can work on one in the middle of nowhere. Think about it.

 

The Q7 might be a good choice. It does well pulling the bigger Ollie. It still has the problem of no dealers outside of the bigger urban areas, and Audi VW vehicles require many specialty tools to work on that most independent shops would not have access to.

 

The big Mercedes SUVs would do the job. Same probelm with service. For each brand you are researching, check for official dealers in the places you will visit....

 

A70C61DA-5A69-4239-9FFC-D4F3611709AA.thumb.jpeg.fdc3c1f6d5c00dc2248cd811248076b6.jpeg

 

All these brands are super expensive to repair when out of warranty. If you buy an extended warranty or trade in often this would be a non- issue.

 

Don’t obsess over run flat tires. They can be replaced with regular ones, and you can throw a spare tire on the roof for a long road trip. They are definitely a negative, but you can find a safe solution.

 

You might consider a full sized medium wheel base SUV like the Aviator you mentioned, but many are a little marginal in terms of trailer capacity. The problem is the shorter wheelbase, which makes the rig less stable than a full sized pickup on bad road surfaces and cross winds. Have you considered a newer Land Cruiser or Sequoia?  They have the same brute drivetrain as a Tundra and even the smallest city in remote areas has a Toyota dealer. They are wonderful on the open highway and not bad in town, the LC has full surround cameras and proximity warning. A LC 200 was my final choice for a powerful, bulletproof, luxury road tripper that will safely pull my 6000 pound Ollie. I have no regrets. I never worry about finding a place to fix it in remote Wyoming, though there are dozens, since they never break.... they are the best built vehicles on the planet.

 

C9B4E5F3-ADE8-401F-98BB-AE0729F29A9D.thumb.jpeg.53c35c8b7494aa000e998e31e70ae6a9.jpeg

 

http://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/land-cruiser-200-towing-thread/

 

The Elite II trailers are small and sleek, but when well equipped they are pretty heavy. Don’t buy an inadequate TV. Don’t expect to load down the tongue with a lot of cargo, keep it as light as possible .... too much tongue weight is your main enemy. You are doing your research before buying either, which is the right approach.

 

Good luck on your quest.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

 

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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Kathryn and Chad:

 

I agree with JD on the top off road/durable SUV if cost is not an issue is the LC 200.  But the new Land Cruisers are really expensive.  There are some available in the used market, but because they are so so strongly sought after by the off-road users, even the used LC's are very pricey.  I looked at the LC as my first choice, as they really are designed to be durable and reliable for 20+ years.  But the availability and cost is an issue.

 

A good non truck TV fall back is the Toyota Sequoia.   I use an ancient one (2005) as my TV.  Unfortunately, (as advised before buying my Ollie Elite II by JD), the high speed rear end and the small 4.7L engine just would not cut the mustard in the mountains.  He was spot on.  If you look at the Sequoia's, be sure to get the 5.7L engine, 4WD with towing axles.  The extra 100 lf-ft of torque of the 5.7 vs the 4.7L is a tremendous advantage over mine.

 

Due to the age and mileage on my TV, I am looking at vehicles that are both durable, and powerful.  I think that the F250 would be the best long haul TV, but finances may drive me to a used Sequoia that was set up as a tow vehicle.  The Toyota forum is hinting that they will be bringing out a new updated Sequoia in the next year.  That likely will reduce the cost of the used ones that will be put on the market as trade in's for new ones.  Just something to consider.

 

One key factor is how many passengers you need to carry.  If it is just the two of you, then maybe a standard cab F250 may be a very reliable and safe selection, but not have the length issues you are concerned about.  If an SUV is desired with its greater passenger room, then the Land Cruiser (Best)/Sequoia (Good) are options to at least look into.  What ever way you go, it is very important that you get towing axles, not the high speed ones... especially if the primary purpose of the vehicle will be towing your Ollie Elite II.

 

Geronimo John

 

 

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Tug:  2019 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, 3.5L EcoBoost, Max Trailer Tow, FX-4, 4X4, Rear Locker


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All of our assumptions are based on research and no real world experience so I really appreciate your willingness to help with your experience.  While I do some research on the Sequoia( land cruiser is just to much $) I was curious why you would choose the Q7 over the discovery.  The Q7 has a lower towing rating, less torque, no spare, less cargo capacity, etc.  It’s a beautiful SUV and drove well but the discovery seems more capable in almost every way. Is it purely reliability or is there some other intangible I am missing.

 

Some more background on how we may use it.  I would expect more long term trips of 1 -3 month of more vs weekend getaways.  say maybe 2 per year that may cover 5-6k miles a year.  we are on the outskirts of  a medium city but go into the city several time a month.  Planned trips are a National park tour of the west, key west, and new Brunswick so the driving conditions are all over the map.  We want to find a place to park and use as a home base and explore semi rugged landscape as day trips.  Other big consideration is my wife has health issues that make driving difficult for her so we need every driver safety feature possible to allow her to drive comfortably. Its only the two of us with Minimal gear no bikes/kayaks etc.

 

Thank you again for your time and expertise.

 

Chad


LEII Hull #517    |   Lincoln Navigator Reserve with Heavy Duty Trailer Tow Package and owner installed OEM rear "splash guards" (aka mud flaps)  - "The Beast"

 

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People shop towing capacity and space but what we’ve found is that it is the towing convenience features of full size pickups that really make the difference in real life. Things like extra cameras, backup assist and blind spot detection that extends the length of the trailer are huge, yet they’re things that you don’t appreciate until you’re using them.

 

We looked at the new Disco and while there was a moment of temptation, I’m glad we went with a truck, despite its size. You get used to it pretty quickly and you’ll probably find that the utility of having a truck in the family will offset most or all of the size inconvenience.

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Snowball • LE2 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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I was curious why you would choose the Q7 over the discovery. Is it purely reliability or is there some other intangible I am missing.

 

I think member DavidS has a Q7 turbo diesel and he is very happy with its towing performance and fuel economy. He accepts the lack of dealer support in remote Utah, but so far I think he hasn’t had a bad experience. That is the main reason I mentioned it. I personally have owned two older Audis and will never get another. They are very labor intensive to work on and can be nightmare out of warranty.

 

 We want to find a place to park and use as a home base and explore semi rugged landscape as day trips. Other big consideration is my wife has health issues that make driving difficult for her so we need every driver safety feature possible to allow her to drive comfortably.

 

That first reason is EXACTLY why we bought a Land Cruiser. We wanted to be able to travel the back country without worrying about getting stranded, and without the harsher ride of a truck. It will take you along remote farm or ranch roads, or washed out rocky forest roads over 14,000 ft passes with absolute poise, comfort and reliability.

 

The problem with some other choices is that you cannot easily fit LT All Terrain tires, which are absolutely necessary in the boonies to prevent flat tires due to sidewall cuts. The 200 with its 18” wheels and (non-standard) LT tires is very rugged. Plus it has a full sized spare under the back.

 

New 200s are pricey, you could look for a Certifed three or four year old one with less than 60k miles for maybe $50k. These trucks hold their value extremely well but you shouldn’t be afraid to buy a nice used one. I am the fourth owner, I bought it with 85,000 miles for $42k two years ago. It has no squeaks, the interior still looks brand new and it drives beautifully. I would not hestitate to advise you to buy a used 200 with a solid maintenence history, but the same can’t be said for other brands.

 

I agree 100% with overland, a half ton truck would not take very long to adjust to and they have many advantages over any SUV. The trailering features can’t be beat.

 

Have you priced new pickups? Land Cruisers are expensive vehicles but they are not all that much more than a new loaded truck or a new Disco.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA


"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

 

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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Is this what you have in mind?

 

6218BBFB-A7D4-429E-808A-AAA548227FDE.thumb.jpeg.dd9a09cc85f98ca08aa5ab1129a5ede8.jpeg

 

https://www.nps.gov/dino/planyourvisit/echo-park.htm

 

Many of these primitive tracks are impassible when wet, use caution, wait for roads to dry out after a summer thunderstorm, which they do quickly. Bring basic recovery gear. A pair of Max Trax boards will make you feel a LOT better about venturing off pavement and they pretty much eliminate the need for serious equipment like a winch, if you are careful and don’t take chances...

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA


"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

 

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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Amazon.com:  Maxtrax MTX02FJRMAXTRAX MKII Vehicle Recovery and Extraction Device, $299

 

John D:

 

Thanks for the Maxtrax suggestion.  I had seen them in use in Africa, but had put it way deep in the memory bank.

 

Will they fit sideways in the back of your LC?  If not, where do you transport them?

 

Thank  you once again,

 

 

 

 


Tug:  2019 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, 3.5L EcoBoost, Max Trailer Tow, FX-4, 4X4, Rear Locker


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Thanks for the Maxtrax suggestion. I had seen them in use in Africa, but had put it way deep in the memory bank.

 

Will they fit sideways in the back of your LC? If not, where do you transport them?

 

You’re welcome.... Zoom in on the pic in the previous post. When on the road I carry them bungeed to a set of Yakima crossbars, where I carry my canoe. I also added a steel cable and lock to stop the casual thief, but most people have no clue at all what they are.

 

The rest of the time they sit in the cargo bay against the left wheel well (fore and aft) nestled into a folded piece of sturdy cardboard to prevent the teeth from scraping anything. They clear the tailgate when the left rear seatback is vertical. They won’t clear if it is reclined any. I carry them year round, and they work very well in mud and snow, not just deep sand. Two is enough, four is better. You can buy a carry bag, but I don’t see the need for it. They are NOT  intended for bridging (such as a deep washout), because they are not stout enough. If you pile rocks underneath, they could work.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

 

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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Hello Kathryn and Chad,

 

My wife has a Disco V that we are hoping to use as our tow vehicle for an Elite II (delivery scheduled for June). Like you, this will be our first travel trailer and I still have quite a bit of research to figure out regarding towing the Ollie safely. If you end up considering the DV, let me know, I would be happy to share the good/bad of what I find out. Below are a couple links to the Land Rover Discovery 5 forum regarding towing that you may have already seen, but thought I would share.

 

https://landroverforums.com/forum/new-discovery-v-51/towing-d-v-87427/

 

https://landroverforums.com/forum/search.php?searchid=3088138

 

Take care, congratulations on your Oliver!

 

Travis

 

 

 

 


Kim and Travis, Charlotte NC


2019 Legacy Elite II, Twin Bed


2018 LR Discovery 

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Hey folks, thanks for all of your input!  I've been remiss in responding because you gave us so much food for thought, we went into a major research frenzy.

 

First, on the Disco: I've talked to folks from the sales manager (who never got back to us) to actual service technicians at our local dealer (the latter through their receptionist) and the general response was they they didn't really know about the hitch restrictions that are listed in the manual, but that they were sure it would be fine.  I called another dealership which is closer to horse country, and the sales rep I spoke to their said that she towed a horse trailer with her Disco and though she didn't know the rise, she knew it required some, and it wasn't a problem.  I called Land Rover Customer Service and was told all they could do was read me the owner's manual.  So, no one could tell me what the technical reasons were for the hitch restrictions, so we don't know what putting a >6" rise that is 8.5" away will do and how it will affect vehicle performance.  We decided we didn't like the risk, or the total lack of information or knowledge, and decided to give up on the Disco.

 

We took your advice and looked at the Land Cruiser.  The problem is, while it looks like an amazing off-road vehicle, it doesn't have all of the driver assist technology that we want.  Long before we decided to get an Ollie, we knew our next vehicle had to at least have adaptive cruise which worked in stop-and-go traffic.  The LC doesn't even have that...the adaptive cruise doesn't work below 32mph.  It only has a back-up camera, no front camera or 360 bird's-eye view.  We couldn't find any particular towing assistance.

 

At this point, I wasn't sure we'd find anything that met our criteria.  Really, we wanted a small F-150.  The new Ford Ranger doesn't have any of the driver assist or towing technology.  The only way to configure an F-150 with the smaller Super Cab and a short box is in the Raptor, which is actually a foot shorter (not much, but better than nothing).  However, this shorter one can only tow 6,000 lbs.

 

At this point I said to Chad, "Ignore the outrageous prices," (I had already said this about the Land Cruiser), "is there anything out there, even in the monster size SUVs, that will do what we want and still fit in our garage/not freak us out about driving it?"  We went back to the drawing board and looked at all of the huge SUVs and found that the (redesigned in 2018) Ford Expedition/Lincoln Navigator would basically be a shorter F-150, but with seats we don't need rather than a useful cargo bed.  You can get them with the Pro Trailer Backup Assist and a build in trailer brake controller.  The real test came when we went out this weekend and test drove them.  We actually didn't freak out driving them.  They're almost two feet shorter than the F-150 Platinum and have a shorter wheelbase (122.5" vs 145"), which I think helped with maneuvering.   Still not thrilled at the idea of having our only vehicle be a giant lumbering beast, but with the parking assist the worst part becomes the horrible gas mileage.

 

So, now, should I start a new thread to ask: What do you all think about the Expedition/Navigator?  I noticed at least a couple people seem to have Expeditions here.

 

We can purchase these at an employee rate thanks to Chad's employer, so, spec'ed out the way we want them, there's about a $12k-$13k difference between the Expedition Limited and the Navigator Select.  We made a long list of the differences between the two vehicles (besides the price).  The biggest ones are that the Navigator gets the same engine that the Raptor has, so it has 450 hp @ 5500 rpm and 510 lb-ft of torque @ 3000 rpm.  The Limited Expedition has 375 hp @ 5000 rpm and 470 lf-ft of torque @ 3500 rpm.  It looks like the Navigator gets a transmission oil cooler that the Expedition doesn't.  It also has a Heads-Up-Display that we would really like to have to be able to keep eyes on the road and have easy visuals for navigation.  It also has a feature I've never seen on any other vehicle...Auto Hold.  This allows you to remove your foot from the brake any time you're at a complete stop, and it won't release the brake until you put your foot on the accelerator.  This is really big for me, as having to keep my foot on the brake through a long light cycle was one of the things that made me stop driving.  There are a host of other things that make the Navigator somewhat nicer and better performing, and I just felt it drove better in general.  One of the interesting differentiators was free lifetime (for the original owner) roadside assistance including towing to the nearest Lincoln service center and even an extra $200 for towing your trailer if the car needs towing.  (For John - There are six Lincoln Dealers in Wyoming, and I'm pretty sure any Ford dealer could work on it in a pinch!)

 

The Expedition has a few things going for it besides price.  It has a full size spare (need to see if there is room for one on the Nav) and would come with 20" rims, not the 22s the Navigator would come with.  It tows more: 9200 lbs vs 8300 lbs.  It has been driven off-road and demonstrated it's towing a bit more with online reviewers, so we know it can hack at least what we want it to do.   We don't want to go bouldering, we just want to be secure on gravel/dirt roads.  (Incidentally, I've become a TFLTrucks addict!)

 

We checked and we can purchase All-Terrain tires for both of them, which we were struggling with for some of the mid-size SUVs.

 

So, what thoughts do you all have?   And should I put the last few paragraphs into a new thread for folks to find in the future, or does that risk splitting up the discussion too much?

 

Thanks for all of your time and knowledge!

 

-Kathryn (and Chad)


LEII Hull #517    |   Lincoln Navigator Reserve with Heavy Duty Trailer Tow Package and owner installed OEM rear "splash guards" (aka mud flaps)  - "The Beast"

 

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We could just edit the title to include your new coniderations.... or, you could start a new thread...

 

Sherry

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2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12
 

 

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What do you all think about the Expedition/Navigator?

 

They are more than adequate. In my mind much better than your first choices. Even if they are lumbering beasts.

 

One thing you mentioned, is available service centers. There are Ford dealers in almost every town across the country. They all repair FORD/Lincoln. You may never need one in an emergency, but when you do, there you are. That is the main reason I sold my Sprinter, and purchased a Ford Transit - try getting a technical engine issue on a Mercedes resolved in the Utah back country. Long story.

 

Good luck in your search.

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Cindy,  Russell and  "Harley dog" . Home is our little farm near Winchester TN

2018 Oliver Legacy Elite II - 2018 GMC 2500 Duramax 

"Die young - As late as possible"

ALAZARCACOFLIDMTNVNMOKORTNTXUTWAWYd56201524964bac5483378b34b491562080842sm.jpg

 

 

 

 

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Kathryn,

 

The Land Cruiser 200 does have multiple cameras, one in the center of the grill, one bi-directional one under each side mirror, and one in the tailgate, slightly off center. While they do not integrate as nicely as Ford’s system, they are very useful. They are really designed for offroad, so you can see obstacles like a big rock, and lines where the tires will go, depending on the steering wheel position. Very cool, IMHO. They do not have automatic trailer backing assist, which would be nice.

 

I am a little unsure why you would use cruise control in slow speed stop and go traffic, that seems VERY risky, regardless of how smart the system is. The Radar mode of the LC works well in variable speed highway traffic, and can easily be disabled for regular driver controlled cruise control, which I prefer away from lots of cars. The problem with Radar mode is that if the idiot in front of you can’t maintain speed, your vehicle will mimic his car. I prefer to not have my truck speedng up and slowing down all the time. If the guy ahead is ditsy, I prefer to go around him rather than dance with him.

 

The LC has hill start assist, it holds the brake on a slope until you accelerate. That has been around for a decade, it is not unique to the Navigator you looked at.

 

The LC is  definitely not for everyone, that is for sure, but it is a worry free vehicle that will take you anywhere.

 

I have no personal experience with any Ford product, ever, but I think the 450 bhp Raptor motor in the Lincoln would be a stellar unit for towing an Elite II. And yes, Ford dealers can fix it if needed. You just have to put up with a down scale waiting area... ;)

 

I don’t know anything about the Lincoln drivetrain, but Ford offers the FX4 offroad package, which would be a wonderful choice. It gives you Low Range 4wd, under chassis skidplate protection, locking rear differential and those necessary LT tires, standard. Woohoo! Perfect for exploring those high Colorado passes and those loose sandy tracks in Utah....

 

On June 16, 2017, Ford announced that an off-road package Expedition FX4 will become available starting with the 2018 model year, with an announced MSRP at around $63,000 (US). This option, available to 4WD XLT level trims only and targeted towards the 20% of Expedition owners who use the vehicle for off-road purposes, is expected to compete with the Chevrolet Suburban and Tahoe Z71 package in both standard and MAX versions. Among the detailed features are patented electronic locking limited-slip rear differential, Off-road-tuned shocks, All-terrain tires, Seven different skid plates that serve as underbody armor and protect critical areas, Unique 18-inch Magnetic Metallic-painted cast-aluminum wheels.

 

Note: 18” LT tires work MUCH better on rough surfaces than 20’s or heaven forbid, 22’s. They are way cheaper, offer a wider selection, ride softer, protect the rims from pothole damage, and are easy to find in any small town if you mess one up. A LC comes with 18’s only, and its Lexus sister comes with 20’s.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA


"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

 

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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Just keep in mind that any off-road tuned suspension usually equals soft and squishy, to absorb the bumps, which is counter productive to heavy weight towing. You may need to stiffen it back up slightly.


Randy


One Life Live It Enjoyably


2017 F350 6.7L SRW CC LB


2015 Oliver Elite II Hull #69

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Just keep in mind that any off-road tuned suspension usually equals soft and squishy, to absorb the bumps, which is counter productive to heavy weight towing. You may need to stiffen it back up slightly.

 

Very correct! It is hard to balance maximum load carrying and passenger comfort. Rear airbags work very well to tune the back end for towing. And you can then deflate them when the trailer is parked.

 

With the small Elite this would not be a concern. However the FX4 package may lower the tow rating and this would need to be verified!

 

309AF193-5D03-449B-92C8-3E4BD83242CF.thumb.jpeg.6c7dd7368dc717eefcee74e3699f41d4.jpeg

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA


"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

 

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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At least on the F150, the FX4 shocks are stiffer than stock.  They don't swap the springs, which is what affects towing.

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Snowball • LE2 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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Just watched the Fast Lane guy try to take the Expedition FX4 up Gold Mine Hill. He had lots of trouble, never got through the third section, and got stuck in a ditch. This truck is definitely not made for that kind of driving.

 

Tires are too street oriented (no grip). Need real All Terrain tires.

 

Not nearly enough wheel travel (axle articulation). Not much can be done about that. That is what gives you a nice soft highway ride.

 

Inadequate clearance. Easy fix, some dealers do it to new vehicles on their lots. ... https://www.blueovaltrucks.com/a-lifted-2018-ford-expedition/

 

Anyway, for easy maintained gravel and dirt forest roads, no worries with the stock truck. Once you start adding rocks and small ledges, you will not be able to proceed.

 

THIS is why a Land Cruiser can walk up Gold Mine Hill without disturbing the folks inside. This is a stock vehicle, with stock passenger car tires:

 

2008-Toyota-LandCruiser-200-19.thumb.jpg.22b36256f36e0f0b4ed0f79702e3bd6f.jpg

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

 

 


"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

 

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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We tow our Oliver Legacy II with a 2018 Ford Expedition XLT with FX4 and heavy duty tow packages.  It has a 3.73 rear end which I understand is important in towing.  This is our first camper and our first towing experience.  The Expedition/Legacy II combo is great.  The Expedition has plenty of power to haul the Oliver around.  My previous two vehicles were Toyota Highlanders and I was intimidated by the size of the Expedition initially, but it didn't take long to get used to it.  It's very comfortable to ride in around town and on long trips.  It seats 8 and honestly that third row seat is not bad to ride in.

 

Our towing experience has been limited but it has been a lot easier than I thought it might be.  We have the Ford back-up assist and the brake controller and they work wonderfully.  The blind spot monitor extends back and covers the trailer when it is hooked up to the truck.  I have the Ford safety suite although I haven't used the adaptive Cruise.  The FX4 package got us 18 inch wheels and Michelin truck tires (no low profile tires for this truck).  The backup camera in the truck is big enough to be useful (the one in the Highlander was way too small).  My husband can back the truck up to the trailer and pretty much line the hitch ball up with the trailer tongue just by using the camera.  We could  easily take the Expedition on dirt/gravel roads.  We're not doing Expedition Portal stuff--if we were we would have bought a raised teardrop-rooftop tent type thing and a 4Runner.  But I'm confident that we can wander around on forest service roads, etc.

 

One thing that I have not seen mentioned in this thread is vehicle payload.  My Expedition is rated at 1600 lbs.  When you are deciding which vehicle you want, you might want to consider that figure too.  Think about how much stuff you'll travel with and whether your vehicle will be able to haul it.

 

I think that being able to get your vehicle serviced anywhere is important and the Ford F150 is the largest selling vehicle in America.  There are plenty of Ford dealers out there and that was important to us.

 

I wanted an SUV for our day-to-day lives.  My husband drives a regular cab Ford F150 so we have a truck for truck stuff.  There will probably be a day when we're camping and towing when I'll wish I had a truck bed instead of an SUV.  Dirty, wet, stinky stuff in the bed of a truck is better than that same stuff in the back of the SUV but so far that hasn't happened to us.

 

Good luck with you choice and happy camping.

 

 

 

 

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Hey Katherine and Chad,

 

‘skimmed through a lot of this thread so,please forgive me if I go over old ground.

 

apppreciate what you are going through deciding on a TV. We did the same.  So, here are a short list of things to consider:

 

1 - Do the tow weight capacity math yourself adding the amount of after margin you are comfortable with.  Download and read the owners manual and pay attn  to the fine print.

 

2 - one question I did not see was...... how good are you at backing up a trailer.   My answer to that question was... complete newbie.  Which is one of the reasons we decided to go F150. The pro back up assist is invaluable when learning to tow your Ollie.

 

3- plug for the F150.   Yes we are prejudiced but find it is a great veh towing or not.  You get used to,it pretty quick.  Donna has no,issues driving it and I have come to prefer it to,the car. BUT.... measure the garage first to see if it will fit.  We had 4” to spare.

 

 

 

all for now.  good luck

 

scotty


Gregg & Donna Scott and Piper the Westie  -    The Flying Sea Turtle - Hull # 145     Western NC


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With our LE II is still in production, I went through a LONG and detailed process of selecting a TV.  Like you, I had never owned a truck and was used to small wheel based vehicles (my trade in was a Porsche 911 4S).  I cannot give you expert advice about towing an LE II, but I can comment quite extensively about going from a small car to a MUCH longer TV.  It was cathartic.  After extensive research, I purchased a 2018 F150 (max towing 11,300 lb) for the express purpose of pulling the LE II.  I was never a "truck guy" - but now I am.  I went into the relationship with a chip on my shoulder because I gave up the 911 (a car I had dreamed of since I was a kid).  Not only have I become comfortable driving the longer vehicle.  I LOVE THE TRUCK.  I am likely to own a truck even if I don't need it as a TV.  I believe that there is an "inner truck" in every man.  Just saying.

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Looking forward to years of exploring in our 2019 LE II, pulling with an F150, V8, 3.73 rear, 4x4 Off Road, tow package . . . All I need to do is retire first!  Matthew   <><

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They do grow on you.  My experience was the same and even my wife wants one of her own now.

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Snowball • LE2 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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I believe that there is an “inner truck” in every man. Just saying.

That’s a hoot. I totally agree, especially if you have to do chores like buying supplies or lumber. Carrying a long load of studs or heavy sacks of manure in a really nice SUV gets old really fast. I have had a couple of pickups (1500 Chevy and 3500 Ram) and decided that for me a small utility trailer and a nice SUV makes more sense.

 

But there is nothing as satisfying as pulling up to the loading area at Home Depot, dropping the gate, and having the guy drive his forklift right up to it, and lay all those big sheets flat on the bed. Woohoo.

 

For an inner city dweller the equation gets completely dfferent due to tight streets, low parking garage clearances, no need for landscaping etc. In that case, I really don’t understand why anyone would want a pickup as his only vehicle. It does not compute. My son lives in Redmond WA, outside of Seattle, and the ONLY pickups you see there are commercial contractors. Everything else is high end SUVs, Teslas, sports cars and dirt free tricked out Wranglers. LOL.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

 

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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My neighborhood was platted in the 1800’s and is as tight as can be. Most streets are effectively single lane due to street parking. All the street corners are radiused 2’ at best and often there’s a telephone pole placed 6” off the curb right at the corner, so no curb hopping.  Driveways are narrow and people park right up to the edge. But you adjust. Driving a truck through here definitely requires more thought and care but it ceased being a pain after a few weeks of getting used to it.


Snowball • LE2 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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I believe that there is an “inner truck” in every man. Just saying.

 

So true. I have always favored a truck, even when I had pretty much my choice of vehicle (Company perk) . There were a few times I would  sub out a truck for a big SUV, however, I always returned to a truck.    Modern trucks have really improved in ride quality, comfort, and drivability. So much so, I prefer to drive my GMC 2500 in almost every situation, over my wife's CRV - even when she prefers to drive. I LOVE MY TRUCK. Given close quarter living, yeah, I get it, go smaller.

 

 

 

 


Cindy,  Russell and  "Harley dog" . Home is our little farm near Winchester TN

2018 Oliver Legacy Elite II - 2018 GMC 2500 Duramax 

"Die young - As late as possible"

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