half-ton trucks

[cptdondo]

I'm doing some thinking.  Always a risky endeavor.  I am looking at an Elite II, and I have a Silverado 1500 with the tow package, so the max towing is 9,200#.  All good there.  I'm concerned about the total load on the truck.  The cargo capacity is 1,700# so if you do the math - 700 hitch, 500 occupants and dogs, that leaves 500 for cargo.  Add a cap or a cover, some options, and that truck is running overloaded or nearly so and almost certainly overloaded on one axle or the other.

 

I see a lot of people towing with Ford F150s, Silverado 1500s, etc.  Am I not seeing something or should I be looking at a 3/4 ton truck that has 2,500# CCC?

[mountainoliver]

<p style="text-align: left;">I just went through the same thing with a Toyota Tundra. My rear axle weight was over the maximum weight rating by about 200 lbs. Tightening the weight distribution hitch did not help much and the truck drove like it was on ice. I felt like it struggled too much on long steep hills and just felt uneasy with the setup in general. I decided to buy a 3/4 ton truck and I’m extremely happy and impressed with everything about this new truck. We carry what we need (within reason) without worrying about weather we should leave a pair of shoes or coffee maker at home or not so as to not be over weight. I don’t have to worry about the tongue weight so much as well. I stopped using the weight distribution hitch and the trailer pulls smoother than ever before. I mostly don’t feel big trucks passing me or cross winds and it just feels so much safer and in control as well. I can maintain speed on hills and even easily accelerate up hills as needed. Truck and trailer set level without all of the “crutches” and gadgets needed to force it to do so. These are my feelings about my experience but everyone feels differently on this, so your experience will definitely be different.</p>

[KountryKamper]

We had a Tundra also and were just over the payload capacity when fully loaded for a long trip. I wanted to replace the tonneau cover with a rear topper that would have put us 350 lbs over the Tundra max payload. We moved up to a 3/4 ton and am glad we did and now don't have to worry about capicaty any longer.

[KWRJRPE]

I have a 2015 5.7L Toyota Tundra Limited 4WD, double cab, 55K miles, LEER cap (about 200lbs), recently paid off, - someone please tell me I am ok to use this truck with my new 2019 Oliver in April.  I did purchase the Andersen WD hitch option. As much as I like the idea of a 3/4 ton truck, Toyota does not make one and I do prefer Toyota products (and, I really am happy to be done with vehicle payments).

 

However, if the 3/4 ton Tow Vehicle is truly the way to go, suggestions? Ford? GMC? I have not shopped other brands in many, many years.  My Tundra is in beyond excellent condition - I can certainly get a good price (or trade-in, except dealers always get the best of me).

 

 

 

 

[BackofBeyond]

The cargo capacity is 1,700# so if you do the math – 700 hitch, 500 occupants and dogs, that leaves 500 for cargo. Add a cap or a cover, some options, and that truck is running overloaded or nearly so and almost certainly overloaded on one axle or the other.

 

You didn't indicate year or engine, so I can't really comment on your set-up. However, I had similar situation with a 2004 GMC 1/2 - 5.7 liter. I towed my EII home with that truck - 90 miles later I knew I was going to need a 3/4 ton and more torque.

 

The difference between my new 2500 Duramax and my old truck is huge, not in same universe.  Despite the additional cost, I am very happy I made the switch.  I added a Leer top, and can now load up anything I want, and never worry about payloads. Driving is a pleasure, fuel mileage is great (and improving).

 

Hope this helps.

[John E Davies]

Cptdondo, you are smart to do the math. Your stated load rating seems qute low. What year is your truck? Older pickups can’t carry squat compared to newer ones. My ‘06 Ram 3500 5.9 Cummins SRW 4wd had only a 2800 lb rating. The Gen 4 trucks carry lots more weight.

 

If you load down both passenger compartment AND the bed, your truck has little or no room for the tongue load. My suspicions about folks towing the Elite II with a light duty pickup are:

 

They are solo or travel very lightly loaded.

 

They are over gross and don’t care.

 

They are over gross and don’t yet know it.

 

If you get a trailer with all the bells and whistles and you want to travel with full tanks, lots of personal items, cast iron pots, ammo, generator, tools, bikes, etc etc, you won’t like the way your truck drives. So, you can try to keep the trailer as light as possible, use an Anderson hitch always, and worry about it constantly, or get a bigger truck, use a dead weight hitch and load her down heavy, no worries.

 

It is a dilemma many prospective RV buyers face.

 

I tow with a Land Cruiser 200 (8500 lbs max/ 850 lbs tongue) and know I am close to maxing out the truck, but OTH the vehicle is so grossly overbuilt that I know it will take the load without any issues. I personally would never try to tow with a half ton pickup truck with similar load ratings. I would worry about busting the rear drivetrain.

 

I expect to hear some dissenting opinions.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[BackofBeyond]

Ken & Karren Richardson,

 

See my post above. I have spent time in the Toyotas, my son has similar set up as you, but his is the  Toyota Sequoia 4WD. he has done all the engine mods to gain power, etc., I doubt I would be happy towing my Oliver with his truck. If you stay in Fla, it would do fine, big grades, questionable. Try it out, make your decision later. That's what I did.

 

As for brand, I test drove Ford F250 and GMC 2500 (a lot) - very similar options, I ultimately went with GMC, personal preference. The Ram was never in the hunt - for me at least. As for performance, warranty, and such, not any real difference that mattered between the Ford and GMC. I don't like the styling of the Chevy, but is basically same truck.

 

Good luck

 

I added this edit - the legal world being what it is, if your overloaded, have a wreck, you know who's libel…..

[John E Davies]

I have a 2015 5.7L Toyota Tundra Limited 4WD, double cab, 55K miles, LEER cap (about 200lbs), recently paid off, – someone please tell me I am ok to use this truck with my new 2019 Oliver in April. I did purchase the Andersen WD hitch option. As much as I like the idea of a 3/4 ton truck, Toyota does not make one and I do prefer Toyota products (and, I really am happy to be done with vehicle payments).

 

However, if the 3/4 ton Tow Vehicle is truly the way to go, suggestions? Ford? GMC? I have not shopped other brands in many, many years. My Tundra is in beyond excellent condition – I can certainly get a good price (or trade-in, except dealers always get the best of me).

Take a deep breath. Don’t panic, unless you definitely plan to travel really heavily loaded. That bombproof engine plus the 4.30 axle ratios will perform wonderfully well towing an Elite II. I would certainly try it out for a thousand miles before thinking about trading on something heavier duty. You certainly can’t damage it as long as you don’t drive like a lunatic.... it is built darned tough.

 

I hear you about Toyotas. It is a shame they don’t offer at least a heavy half ton Tundra, if not an actual HD version. This model has been realtively unchanged for eleven years. It is really due for a refresh.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[Landrover]

If your cargo weights are a concern which they should be and many overlook. Once you have your rig setup with what you want to carry there are many independent rv people that do rv weighing. They come to you and well worth it  all corner are weighed tow vehicle, trailer and both together. Then you'll recieve a welth of info. On your weight  limits. I had it done was very impressed. Rv Weighing. Com  I would shy away from going to the truck stops and using the weigh scales.

[GaryJona]

Kudo's to you for doing the real math and understanding what they say, not what you want to hear from them.  Can you use a 1/2 ton with the right set up i would say yes, but question is what is your traveling style going to be.Here's just a few more things to ponder as you may.  My wife and I will go for 2 to 3 months or more and when your going to Alaska it is great to have a large gas tank vs a 24 gallon tank because you sure do not have to stop every 2 or so hours. Traveling across New Foundland is also nice to go for 3 or more hours as well not quite as populated just a thought on what you might want in your truck. Also Truck bed size i would say 6 1/2 foot bed is the right size to think about, if you carry a claim or a quick set up canopy you might need or want that. Sorry and one more thing I would think about is engine braking or Jake brakes sure saves on the transmission and brakes when traveling in the higher mountains, sometimes we have gone down 7 % grades for 8 to 12 miles.   On the engine size I would never try anything under a 5.7 unless you never leave Florida or always do short trips. I first pulled with a Ford 5.0 and my buddy a Tundra 5.7 and I was Fred Flinstone when it came to climbing the Mountain passes. You are on the right path and better to think before you make any decisions and you can always go with what got you here first and then decide. Safe travels Thanks Gary

[KWRJRPE]

Very good discussion.  As I ponder the 3/4 ton upgrade, what about fuel?  I have always driven gasoline vehicles. Is diesel the way to go with 3/4 ton trucks for towing Ollie? My friends with 3/4 trucks all seem to be diesel - must be a reason.

[KountryKamper]

Diesel is basically a 9K-10K investment. That said I felt it was worth it. Our truck is effortless pulling the trailer with 445 HP and 901 ft lbs of torque. 100,000 mile warranty on the drive train of the diesel model. We get better gas milage then the gas model and can go over 500 miles on a tank of fuel while towing, 600 when not towing. The engine exhaust brake makes downhills a breeze and I don't even touch the brakes coming down most mountions. I can pull up a mountain and it barely knows the trailer is there. I have drove pickups for 30 years and this is probably the last one I will buy so I went all the way with it. Plus it's just a really cool truck. ?

 

 

[cptdondo]

This will be my home. The Ollie will be the main house and the TV will be the cabin. So I have about 800#of cap, batteries, solar panels, stove, etc. That all have to go on there. Plus gear.

 

Everything I own will be in the trailer or the TV.  Rock climbing gear, ice axes, backpacks, snowshoes, bicycles, and all my clothes, summer and winter. Laptop, camera, you name, all on there. My small dog tips the scales at 75# and he's small compared to the Newfie.

 

I just don't see any headroom in a half ton truck to do that.

 

I'd go to a one ton but I'm trying to avoid the dualies. Got them now and it's a bit of a PITA.

 

 

 

 

[ScubaRx]

I agree with everything everyone said about the 3/4 ton diesels. We’ve gone through several different tow vehicles and our Silverado 2500HD outperforms them all. You don’t need the one ton truck. The engine, drivetrain, suspension and frame are exactly alike on both the 3/4 ton and the 1 ton trucks. The only difference is an extra rear floating spring leaf to increase your bed capacity for 5th wheel or gooseneck towing. Otherwise the weight ratings are the same for both trucks until you add the dual rear tires. Diesel fuel costs more than gasoline but we’re somewhat making up for it in increased mileage.

 

Get the 3/4 ton diesel and fergetaboutit.

[John E Davies]

This will be my home. The Ollie will be the main house and the TV will be the cabin. So I have about 800#of cap, batteries, solar panels, stove, etc. That all have to go on there. Plus gear.

 

Everything I own will be in the trailer or the TV. Rock climbing gear, ice axes, backpacks, snowshoes, bicycles, and all my clothes, summer and winter. Laptop, camera, you name, all on there. My small dog tips the scales at 75# and he’s small compared to the Newfie.

That is an awful lot of stuff..... have you considered a different RV choice? How about a long bed 1 ton Quad Cab truck with a high quality four season camper like a Northern Lite, plus a secure enclosed cargo trailer long enough for all for your toys, gear and off season clothes. Remove and sell the rear seats in the truck, that saves you 100 pounds. Build a low carpeted plywood platform there for the dogs, with hidden lockable compartments underneath for valuables.

 

From your description you need tons more storage than you could ever get with an Ollie and a truck bed. If you went with a truck camper and cargo trailer you should reconsider a dually for the stablity and very high payload. If you are strongly against a dually you should limit your choice to a mid sized camper like ..... https://northern-lite.com/Truck-Camper-SE-9-6SE-WB.php

 

Have you considered this approach? It would be better in winter since you could park the trailer if conditions are bad, and you could still get around easily with your truck and portable home. Truck campers excel in harsh winters. The Elite II is four season “weather” rated but you will trash it if you tow it through a really harsh winter. Would you rather mess up a $6000 cargo trailer or a $60,000 Oliver?

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[cptdondo]

Yeah, we've explored a Class C as well.  I have a Roadtrek (extended Sprinter van) that can haul most of the gear and could manage it all with a small roof rack, but we've found that we just don't have floor space with the dogs.  So we need something with a bit more floor space.  And the Roadtrek just can't get us to some of the places we want to explore.  Which is a shame - I work for Roadtrek, and my van has all sorts of upgrades - custom beds, auto-chains, extra large fresh tank, rear cargo box, custom fridge, and so on - but it just doesn't work when you have two people and two very large dogs.  (Anyone want to buy a Roadtrek?  :) )

 

Right now we're looking at an Oliver Elite II for the house, with a 4x4 TV with a pop top.  That way we can get the gear we need into the truck, and any extra gear (summer gear in the winter and vice-versa) can be stashed in the truck.  We can camp in the pop top even in the winter and have a nice place to return to when we get back to the Oliver.  And we can get to the trailhead.  I was hoping the Silverado 1500 would work but I just can't get the GVWR to work out in my favor.  As this is my full-time home and not a weekend jaunter, I need something that actually works with capacity to spare.

[Landrover]

The old saying get what you pay for. I too went to the 2500 diesel, pulling a 30 ft Airstream around the country flat land, high up grades and down grades effortlessly.  The Ollie will be over kill but still worth it. Fuel mileage, tow ratings low Rpms on those high grades and engine braking on down grades. If your going to hardcore travel long extended trips. It's the way to go. Short weekend trips close to home 1/2 ton gas will also work ok for the Ollie. I chose 2500 Chevy duramax diesel crew cab. For the most comfort. I won't argue the other makes its all personal preference.  Have at it. Have fun

[BackofBeyond]

Everything I own will be in the trailer or the TV. Rock climbing gear, ice axes, backpacks, snowshoes, bicycles, and all my clothes, summer and winter. Laptop, camera, you name, all on there. My small dog tips the scales at 75# and he’s small compared to the Newfie.

 

CPTdondo:

 

Between our  EII and my truck with the Leer camper top I carry a similar amount of "Stuff".  Your list -  in my mind - is not excessive. As the tailgate and the camper top are lockable -  I leave most of my stuff loaded all the time. I have a large storage container (with a lockable lid) where I store loose camping gear, tarp, tools, stove,  charcoal,... - just stuff. I put the camp chairs, roll up table,  EZ-UP, backpacking gear, and other "stuff" off to the side. Its not a ton of weight, and given the payload capacity of the GMC, its not an issue at all - with or with out - the truck performance stays the same.  And there is plenty of room for more "stuff" That's why I went with the GMC 2500 Duramax diesel - it just doesn't care - don't worry about the mule - just load the wagon. My older 2004 gas 5.7 ext. cab -  no way - safely or otherwise.

 

When I get back to kayaking, the boat will go up on a roof rack (on the camper top), and my paddling gear in with the other "stuff". Mountain bike, road bike, and such are on the rack in the rear of the Ollie. I'll also carry an ARB portable freezer/fridge that runs on DC/AC.  Most likely the ARB will go in the rear seating area of the truck - along with our 90 lbs. Chessie - Harley. (He thinks the entire rear seating area is his - spoiled)

 

Now as for what's in the Ollie - that's my wife's area - I hate to get into that - lets just say - its more than I think we need - but happy wife - happy life. I've pleasantly discovered there is more storage room in the Ollie than I thought. Lets just say, with judicial planning, we have enough room for everything. - Needed or not :-)

 

I published our scale weights in another post, and they were within the bottom range of the Ollie and the truck. Cat scales work very well for understanding your loaded weights - I would have no reason to use another service.  I'm surprised - loaded, with the Ollie in tow, running down the road at 70, the rig averages 14 -15 mpg, manually computed. I expect that to go down with a boat or two loaded on the roof racks. Maybe.

 

Ok, have fun all.

 

 

[Try2Relax]

I started with a '13 Sierra 1500, went from Boston to Vegas and back it had no issues and no problems, southern route smaller inclines. Did a few other trips that had steeper inclines, just not for miles long, and it did struggle, more than I liked. Crunching the numbers it was always a close thing, I would pack some things in the trailer, instead of the truck, as it had more carrying capacity.  Looking at long term thinking, I decided to part ways with it after 1 year (looked at it as a long term rental) and get rid of it while it still had most value.

 

I started looking at the F250s and when it came down to crunching all the numbers I found that getting an 11,500lb GVWR F350 vs a 10,000lb GVWR F250 cost approx $500 more and got me 1500lbs of payload capacity, which matters greatly when getting 900-1000lbs of extra engine under the hood.

 

Now when I check all the numbers, it's only out of curiosity not because I need to make sure I'm not going over any.

 

You mention exploring new areas, one of the additional benefits of the extra payload is we now carry a 2up quad in the bed (1,000 lbs) park the trailer and really explore new areas, and still don't come close to worrying about any numbers.

[John E Davies]

Cptdondo, do you regularly boondock? If not a medium sized pusher diesel motorhome with a good offroad toad like a Wrangler Unlimited with roof rack checks most of your buttons. Being able to drive to trailheads really complicates your decision, since even a shortbed HD truck with no camper is a real PITA on those vertical ledgey secondary forest roads and high passes.... every reply you make adds more info that makes things harder.

 

Can you post pics or a link to your custom Roadtrek? I’m assuming you already have the lifted 4wd chassis, is the rig just too low and vulnerable for uneven roads? Do you already have bigger tires and skidplates?

 

Have you considered posting your questons over at Expedition Portal? That sounds like an appropriate forum for your lifestyle. You could go bigger than a dinky 1 ton pickup.....

 

 

Thanks.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

[cptdondo]

Unfortunately my Roadtrek is a 2x4.  Long story, but let's say I was in a market for a 4x4 and this one was offered to me at a price I could not resist.  I was going to tow a 4x4 with gear but surprise - the extended chassis can only tow 5K and my Silverado tips the scales at 5200#.  (The standard chassis can tow 7,000#).  And the small 4x4s that used to be all over the place have all but disappeared.

 

Yes, we boondock a lot.  It's not unusual for us to spend a week out in the woods.  I looked at a small Class A with a toad; just doesn't do it for me in terms of logistics, cost, maintenance, etc.  We managed to minimize a lot of our stuff to fit all the gear.  Plus we've been towing an Airstream Basecamp behind the Silverado when we don't use the Roadtrek, and except for the cramped space (try fitting 200# of dogs into the floor space of a Basecamp!!!) and lack of true 4 season capability that seems to be working for us.  And I figure if we can stuff most of our gear into a Basecamp and the bed of the Silverado the Oliver will be vast.  :)

 

The Silverado has been about as much 4x4 as we've ever needed.  We're not too radical but sometimes we drive a ways into places where an RV would just rack or shake itself into pieces.

[John E Davies]

I don’t know anything at all about the Base Camp but 200 lbs of dogs will also be a problem in an Ollie. We have two 40 lb labradoodles and it gets troublesome.

 

Did you ever investigate converting your Sprinter to 4wd? With a 4.5” lift, transfer case, AT tires, armor and optionally regearing the axles it ought to get you around pretty well. Cost for the basics starts at $23k and goes (way) up.... it seems a shame to have a custom RV that you can’t use; a 4wd converted truck like that would have a much high resale value than a 2wd model, especially out West. You could always add a single axle cargo trailer for extra stuff, but that won’t do anything about floor space unless you are already carrying bikes inside the Roadtrek...

 

https://whitefeather4x4conversions.com/f-a-q/

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

[Spike]

I'm not all that truck savvy, but I can report that we tow our Elite II with a 2013 5.7L Toyota Tundra, 4WD, crew-cab, with a Snug Top camper shell. We do not use the Anderson hitch. (Do have and appreciate the Hayes Sway Master for extra insurance.) We have towed much of the Mountain West and have absolutely no issues with sway or feeling underpowered even up the steepest grades.

 

Photo is our Ollie and Stan up on Monarch Pass, Colorado.

 

[mountainoliver]

Spike, I’m guessing that your tongue weight is over what Toyota allows by not using a weight distribution hitch. I don’t remember, but I think it was 500lbs. (but could have been lower). My 2017 Tundra used passenger car tires as well so I know that I was also close to their limits. I think that it was someone on these forums who wisely said that if you’re close to a limit in one or two areas, that you’re probably over limit in another area. I have found that to be mostly true.

[Spike]

Spike, I’m guessing that your tongue weight is over what Toyota allows by not using a weight distribution hitch.

 

Thanks for the warning, mountainoliver. I will look into it. I sure have not experienced any signs or symptoms of trouble. (I DO have truck tires.) Anyone else out there have an opinion and/or suggestion about ways to check if this is indeed a problem that I need to address?

 

(By the way, I noticed I have double-posted. I clicked on "edit," but found no way to delete the redundant post.")