2020-21 HD Trucks

[BackofBeyond]

FYI, when I purchased our GMC, we got an a similar discount for financing with the GM financing. Also told we cold not pay it off until 6 months - however, once the account was active, we had paid maybe 2 months - I called and asked for pay-off. They were fine with me paying off the note. So It worked out fairly well - the finance charges were negligible. Interesting to me the how the costs and profits moved around in the deal.

[John E Davies]

Mike, does the 12” display reflect? In other words, do you get nuisance glare sometimes even with it dimmed? Do you see a big image of your front seat passenger?

I don’t like big reflective surfaces in a vehicle. My 200 has gage reflections at night in the drivers side window that make seeing the outside mirror very difficult.....

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited May 16, 2020 by John E Davies

[WhatDa]

4 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

The 12” display is nice. We’ve grown to really like it. I usually split it and have my iPhone (CarPlay) on top with a map and media on the bottom. The Nav that came with it is useless, out of date on day 1.  We didn’t want the sunroof and wouldn’t get it again but it’s been nice on occasion.  Mike

What I really want out of any of these huge displays on trucks with fancy camera packages is the ability to see the fancy camera stuff at the same time I see maps from my phone.  As it stands I either need to put my phone up on a vent mount, or use the wireless camera from the Ollie.  The final option is to use the GM factory Nav, which with the cloud based directions doesn't seem too terrible.  RAM lets me see maps from my phone and maps from the car at the same time, but not maps from phone+camera.  I'm also still not sure why the automakers bother with factory nav -- I'm sure some people care but just give up and give in to google+apple maps.

Edited May 16, 2020 by WhatDa

[WhatDa]

2 hours ago, BackofBeyond said:

FYI, when I purchased our GMC, we got an a similar discount for financing with the GM financing. Also told we cold not pay it off until 6 months - however, once the account was active, we had paid maybe 2 months - I called and asked for pay-off. They were fine with me paying off the note. So It worked out fairly well - the finance charges were negligible. Interesting to me the how the costs and profits moved around in the deal.

I think the lender would let me pay it completely off early, but then the dealer loses out on their kickback, so thus the verbiage on the payoff.  What seems to work is if I pay down 95% of the balance, and leave 5% financed (or maybe event a smaller amount), dealer still gets kickback and I pay hardly any interest.   I'm not sure if they would come after me if they lose out on their kickback, but there is verbiage to suggest they could in the sales contract along with going to their preferred arbitrator.  I'm sure I could find some additional loophole, but for the $60-100 of interest it will cost me this way, I'll play their game.

[Mike and Carol]

9 hours ago, John E Davies said:

Mike, does the 12” display reflect? In other words, do you get nuisance glare sometimes even with it dimmed? Do you see a big image of your front seat passenger?

Reflections haven’t been an issue. Lots of sun in south Texas.  It’s also fine at night.  The screen is glossy, but doesn’t seem to reflect To the driver. 

[Trainman]

On 5/16/2020 at 6:31 AM, Mike and Carol said:

The 12” display is nice. We’ve grown to really like it. I usually split it and have my iPhone (CarPlay) on top with a map and media on the bottom. The Nav that came with it is useless, out of date on day 1.  We didn’t want the sunroof and wouldn’t get it again but it’s been nice on occasion.  Mike

When we go to purchase a new vehicle I always want the NAV system on the vehicle I buy, but after having them they are pretty much useless and you can't use them when driving to reset, etc. When we purchased our new 2019 Ram I asked the sales person why so few vehicles had the factory NAV ordered with them and the sales person said, just about everyone uses their iPhone today and the $800 option is not as updated, or work as well as the phone. For the RAM I just purchase a new Garmin with a 7" screen, it does everything and mounts on the dash with a RAM mount and work out very well a $220 purchase. At looking at new vehicles in the future I think I will look at vehicles without the NAV systems as many do add some $5000-$6000 to the price of the vehicle just to get the NAV factory system, I'm talking Acura/Lexus here, when most of the vehicles do come with all the needed electronics we would need. Just something to think about when purchasing your next vehicle and if you want to pay for a factory NAV system. 

trainman

[John E Davies]

LOL, factory navs generally suck. The Ram uconnect database is from 2017, and it will be expensive to update when they finally do come out with a new one. For the person who drives home a new car or truck how does it make you feel to find out that three years have gone by with no map updates? Here is what you get when you click your 2018 to 2020 model: 
 

Most Garmins are available in a Lifetime Maps version which give you free updates every three months. The Garmin interface is great and intuitive. Updating takes a couple of hours but you can just leave it plugged into your computer and go watch tv....

My Toyota nav is an expensive kludgy joke that requires a trip to the dealer for programming.

I am however very interested in the ability to stream my iPhone aftermarket nav screen (GAIA) onto the large Ram display using CarPlay. Because of some stupid Apple limitation an iPad will not connect... 😞 .... which is bad since I have up to 40 GB of saved maps on mine . .... https://help.gaiagps.com/hc/en-us/articles/360042742234-Gaia-GPS-and-Apple-Carplay

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited May 17, 2020 by John E Davies

[John E Davies]

34 minutes ago, Trainman said:

 I just purchase a new Garmin with a 7" screen, it does everything and mounts on the dash with a RAM mount and work out very well a $220 purchase. 

Would you mind posting pics of your setup? Maybe start a new thread for the discussion.....

Thanks.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Trainman]

On 5/16/2020 at 6:31 AM, Mike and Carol said:

The 12” display is nice. We’ve grown to really like it. I usually split it and have my iPhone (CarPlay) on top with a map and media on the bottom. The Nav that came with it is useless, out of date on day 1.  We didn’t want the sunroof and wouldn’t get it again but it’s been nice on occasion.  Mike

When we go to purchase a new vehicle I always want the NAV system on the vehicle I buy, but after having them they are pretty much useless and you can't use them when driving to reset, etc. When we purchased our new 2019 Ram I asked the sales person why so few vehicles had the factory NAV ordered with them and the sales person said, just about everyone uses their iPhone today and the $800 option is not as updated, or work as well as the phone. For the RAM I just purchase a new Garmin with a 7" screen, it does everything and mounts on the dash with a RAM mount and work out very well a $220 purchase. At looking at new vehicles in the future I think I will look at vehicles without the NAV systems as many do add some $5000-$6000 to the price of the vehicle just to get the NAV factory system, I'm talking Acura/Lexus here, when most of the vehicles do come with all the needed electronics we would need. Just something to think about when purchasing your next vehicle and if you want to pay for a factory NAV system. 

trainman

John, here is the unit I purchased, it does come with Backup Camera Option and a suction type windshield mount, I stick mine on the dash where it has a flat plastic part in the center about the control screen on the Ram 2019. You can use the windshield, but it's farther away and harder to reach. I have purchased several items from this company and always had good results, the price for this unit is $249.00 and it is a new unit, you can purchase Refurbished units at a lessor price, but have always bought new. As far as I know all Garmin GPS have lifetime updates, so auto manufactures should do the same. Due note here that Honda gives you a 5 years free GPS update and our Acura you get to pay $150 for your updates, go figure there both Honda owned. https://g.factoryoutletstore.com/details/719956/garmin-drivesmart-61lmt-s-north-america-w-city-navigator-nt-europe.html?category_id=18937&catalogitemid=643164

[John E Davies]

Trainman, cool, that is similar to my RV660LMT unit. Did you know that you can load topo and specialty maps (in Garmin map format) onto the flash card? If you select both Topo and the regular Garmin database, you end up with a nice composite map with more detail when zoomed way in than the road maps,. and on my gps it is still ROUTABLE.

https://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/state/all

John Davies

Spokane WA

[WhatDa]

Our Toyota came with 3 year old maps, and they wanted $200 to update them to 1.5 year old maps.  At least the GM nav is cloud connected for updates, POI searches, etc...  we'll see how it is in practice.  It has already had some creative routing options that had me scratching my head.

If GM uses their newfound "over the air" update technology to add the CarPlay option to put map info in the gauge cluster that would be ideal -- then I can have TPMS/rear camera on the nav display and directions on the gauge cluster (and maybe HUD).  I'd be shocked if GM added this for a sold model though...

[Mike and Carol]

On 5/16/2020 at 5:44 PM, Mike and Carol said:

Reflections haven’t been an issue. Lots of sun in south Texas.  It’s also fine at night.  The screen is glossy, but doesn’t seem to reflect To the driver. 

On our drive today from Roswell to Durango I noticed there is a reflection on the 12” display. The thing is, when you look at it you see the display. If you adjust your focus you see the reflection. So, I don’t think it’s an issue, but if you focus right you might see a reflection. Mike

[Trainman]

On 5/17/2020 at 1:30 PM, John E Davies said:

Trainman, cool, that is similar to my RV660LMT unit. Did you know that you can load topo and specialty maps (in Garmin map format) onto the flash card? If you select both Topo and the regular Garmin database, you end up with a nice composite map with more detail when zoomed way in than the road maps,. and on my gps it is still ROUTABLE.

https://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/state/all

John Davies

Spokane WA

Didn't know that, thanks. I have a portable Garmin unit that has topo maps on it, I used it when I road my motorcycles off road so I could find my way back to civilization. 

trainman 

[routlaw]

@Trainman, why did you settle on the Garmin 61 LMT? There is such a bewildering array of these devices and much to research. 

Thanks

[Trainman]

19 hours ago, routlaw said:

@Trainman, why did you settle on the Garmin 61 LMT? There is such a bewildering array of these devices and much to research. 

Thanks

Just looked at several reviews on YouTube and this one like many worked as described. I did want one with a 7" screen, backup camera availability if I later decided I want to add one in the future, does have a battery that does give and hour run time if needed which you could carry with you when out of the vehicle, accepts both traffic and weather if you want to add it. There are several other things that this model offers which I don't need or use because our Ram offers all these electronics in our pickup. Buying a GPS and I have purchased several over the years it can be pretty much a toss up on which one you choose as many offer so many options. I personally wanted one with a 7" screen and most 7" Garmin GPS's come with many options as standard. I have never purchased any GPS but a Garmin and have always been satisfied with my purchases. As I have read on sites the iPhone is taking over GPS and as so many phones do offer so many options today, it's hard to say the GPS is worth spending a lot of money for, but I like the screen on the GPS over the iPhone and I can read that 7" screen.

trainman

[routlaw]

Thanks for the explanation Trainman, appreciated! 

This unit does receive much high praise indeed after spending sometime looking into reviews on youtube. I fail to understand though why people like using an iPhone in exchange for a real navigation system. My own experience has been frustrating at best. They get hot if left running all the time or else will turn the monitor off just when its inconvenient, they use up copious amounts of expensive data if constantly running a navigation app. Don't get me wrong I use my iPhone for a lot of things including some limited navigation but to use one in exchange of a true GPS device just doesn't make sense to me. 

However I am also surprised to hear so many complaints about built in Nav systems on autos and trucks. This surprised me too. I'll probably pick up one of those 61 LMT-S soon. Thanks for the recommendation.

[BackofBeyond]

FYI - the nav in my GMC is too stupid to use. I use my phone  and google maps more often than not. the OEM's have not figured this out yet. Open source and a good interface seems appropriate. 

RB

[Mike and Carol]

53 minutes ago, BackofBeyond said:

FYI - the nav in my GMC is too stupid to use. I use my phone  and google maps more often than not. the OEM's have not figured this out yet. Open source and a good interface seems appropriate. 

RB

I used the nav on my new truck on the way home from the dealer. It was already out of date. 

[routlaw]

3 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

I used the nav on my new truck on the way home from the dealer. It was already out of date. 

Ok that's funny, albeit very unfortunate. Due to the praise of the Garmin Smart Drive 61 LMT I ordered one this afternoon from GPS city for $177 new, not refurb. Looking forward to receiving it. They also had refurbs for around $120ish but don't recall the exact amount.

Edited May 22, 2020 by routlaw

[Trainman]

14 hours ago, routlaw said:

Ok that's funny, albeit very unfortunate. Due to the praise of the Garmin Smart Drive 61 LMT I ordered one this afternoon from GPS city for $177 new, not refurb. Looking forward to receiving it. They also had refurbs for around $120ish but don't recall the exact amount.

It should work well for you, good price, you will like its features and the 7 in. screen.

trainman

[BlueHighways]

For anyone looking for a Ford F150 TV, Hertz has declared bankruptcy and has a fair amount of those in stock at good prices. 

https://www.hertzcarsales.com/

Their interface is not very easy to use but make sure you have your location and distance to cover most of the nation and especially the south.

 

DMc

[SeaDawg]

With filters applied, I found over 50 4x4 f150s within a 1000 miles of me.

Thanks.

Sherry 

[BackofBeyond]

Seems like a good source  - as Dealers around here have large empty lots. Its slim pickins .

[BackofBeyond]

On 5/15/2020 at 10:48 AM, WhatDa said:

Continued from the for sale thread:

 

As part the WA stay home, stay safe.  Only service and parts were allowed to be open (and appointment only there, no waiting in lobby).  The exception is sales could open for 1 customer at a time that fit specific gates, on an appointment only basis.

So that brought sales to a near halt as a result, and made test drives near impossible.  Some dealers aren't even doing the above deals and just laid everyone in Sales off, except for a few to keep customers warm for a post-covid reopening which is now just starting to happen.  Some dealers that have stock refuse to discount, since we're almost at 2 months of factory shutdowns.  I searched within 1000 miles, with a preference for 500 so I could do an out and back kind of day.   Dealers that had good deals had dwindling stock, the ones that were still there had aftermarket lifts, or accessory wheels and stuff that drove up the price, or they were the commercial market stripped trucks.  There are plenty of dealers that did have stock, but based on the VIN they were some of the first 2020 GM HDs made, and probably have sat on the lot forever. 

We ended up getting the last of the super-discounted GMC Sierra 2500HDs (we would have loved a 3500HD, but this was the better deal and still has enough payload for the Ollie+our stuff+SxS on the bed) from Dennis Dillon and got good money on our car for trade.  Ours was made in March before the shutdown.  There are limited GM HDs near us with VIN#s as high now, and certainly not many with the aggressive discounting we received.  Given that GM's production is going to be slow to start (they need the parts chain moving too), we may see limited 2020 trucks built - probably enough to fill any sold orders - before they setup for 2021's trucks.

We also looked at buying from further away, but WA is a CARB state and the GM trucks aren't 50 state, so we had to find one that had WA/CA emissions -- so this locked us out of some of the other volume dealers across the US.

So - update - liking the purchase?

[WhatDa]

We haven't towed yet - I just got the TPMS sensors installed and my B&W multipro compatible hitch this week.  Truck is off getting some clear bra installed this week so I have a Scion xB loaner.  It feels like a go-cart in comparison.

So far very happy with the truck.  Cameras on it are awesome, especially the rear mirror one.  I get pretty good mileage for what it is.    Interior isn't as bad as all the whiners make it out to be.  My vertically challenged wife can see well between the mirrors and cameras -- movable pedals wouldn't gain us much more.  The ride is amazing for what it is.  It's not the Navigator by any means (variable valved 4 corner independent coil suspension), but it blows the Ford HD trucks out of the water.  The multipro tailgate is worth getting the GMC  (or if Chevy adds it in 2021) in my opinion -- being able to walk in and out of the bed is great.  

Minor gripes:

* I want carplay in the center dash so I can use the super-HD camera that GM has  -- its a newer feature but hoping GM comes through. Otherwise if I could switch the camera-mirror to the trailer camera or invisible trailer mode, that would also work.  Goal is zero things on the dash/suction cupped/etc...  My furion WiFi camera usually has a tendency of falling off the windshield right as it comes time to back up the trailer. 

* no automatic wipers -- this kind of surprised me - it's not even an option.  In WA automatic wipers help with our varying levels of things that aren't rain: mist, drizzles, showers, road spray, etc...

* no camera button -- I have to hit home and the icon on the screen - so not as convenient when you're like "hmm wonder if I can clear that".  Rather have that as a physical button.

* Not a fan of the column shifter - it's still just telling a computer what to do.  I like the buttons for <P R N D L>  on some cars best as it is much easier to hit the gear you want, and even rock out of a rut.  I do like it better than a console shifter that eats up room for no reason.

* I still would have loved something with these features, a bench front seat, and carpet delete (knew about before buying)

* Still not sure why no adaptive cruise - when the 1500 has many of the same parts and has it.(knew about before buying)

* No blindspot coverage with trailer (wouldn't be surprised if this is a 2021 feature) (knew about before buying)

 

I'll go a little more detailed, maybe even with a video, once we tow in June.