Alaska and BC planning for September, need some info

[John E Davies]

After years of talking about it, we are finally ready to head north, depending on whether or not Canada opens up her borders to US visitors. We plan to spend four weeks on the road and more or less haul @ss up there just after Labor Day, 2000 miles/ 40 hours from Spokane WA to Tok, AK ...

And then drive these Alaska routes as shown by the arrows. 

Weather permitting, we can hang out a few days here and there to wait for photo opportunities (no rain, sun breaks). Drive the Denali Hwy (gravel) westbound, to see Mount Denali in all its glory, plus elk, caribou, birds, etc.  My wife is eager to do nature, northern lights, and time lapse photography. The caribou hunting season will be over by August, so hopefully there will be no crowds of hunters along that road.

YouTube Denali Hwy and Denali NP

Then to Denali NP for a few days, loop south and back east to visit the Kennecott Copper Mine via the McCarthy Road (more gravel - we would like to park the trailer for that section) and then to Valdez.

YouTube McCarthy, Kennecott Mine, fast forward to 9:00 minutes, very cool

Then back up to Tok and turn right for Canada. That south central AK loop with side trips will be about 1400 miles. Then slowly work our way home through BC and Alberta by the eastern route, hopefully missing the crowds at Jasper and Banff, and any early snow in the passes. 

We might detour to Prince Rupert going north, if the weather is good, we do want to see the ocean, but I am guessing Valdez will provide better views and whales and such.... We have no desire to deal with crowds, cruise ships, helicopter flights, tour buses or Anchorage. We want dark skies, star gazing, northern lights, solitude and wildlife. No hookups needed, nor do we even need established campgrounds. DNR ones are fine (Geezer Pass). Any and all advice about places to see and stay will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by John E Davies

[BackofBeyond]

Having spent about a month and a week running around BC, Yukon, and AK in 2016 - being in a hurry is not advisable. There is just to much cool stuff to do,  see,  experience, and catching  the Great One -  without cloud cover may take time. We didn't have Ollie then.  I will tell you - put something on the front surfaces for protection - regardless of the stone stomper - you have been warned. 

Sept is a little late - but you know what your doing.

In Canada - in the outback - BC/Yukon - consider 1/2 tank of fuel as empty - you never know if the next planned fuel source is open.

Crowds were not an issue - Denali will need a rez - well in Sept ?? not sure. Great hiking - Bears are and were an issue - we had to change plans a few times........ carry bear spray and a 44 mag. 

Valdez was a cool place, Homer, a little less - fishing was good for my wife. We did a week on the Talkeetna river - WW trip through the gorge - flew in on a puddle jumper - landed on a sandbar- was really out there. 

We used 'The Milepost" guide - lot of info - you will just have to pare down what you want to see.

When we do this again - n the Ollie - we will spend much more time in BC and  Yukon. 

RB

 

[John E Davies]

RB, we plan to leave the return trip pretty much wide open, so we can adjust our schedule depending on weather, wildfire smoke and stuff we find to do. We do not actually need to “recreate” on the way home at all, BC is our “back yard” so to speak, it is just 90 miles to Canada, eh, though we have not explored much of it except for the lower 100 mile tall strip of BC and AB. It will be easy for us to access there in the future. Alaska, not so much..... it is still a fair drive, even from here in the Pacific NW...

I understand the .44 mag, unfortunately I can no longer comfortably shoot a big revolver due to worsening peripheral neuropathy. I do plan to bring my Henry Big Boy X .44 Mag lever rifle, with bear loads. I will keep it loaded and close at hand when camping, and I could lug it around on hikes, but it will be a whole lot less comfy than a handgun, though I expect it would cause no raised eyebrows in remote parts of AK. In Canada I cannot carry it anywhere (unless I happened to be hunting with a resident guide). 😥 I will feel naked with only bear spray. I do understand the firearm declaration laws for Canada.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by John E Davies

[dewdev]

John - Take a lot of pictures and post them here for us dreamers.

[NCeagle]

What a great plan!  Alaska is on the bucket list for my wife and I - but I'm waiting for my wife to retire first so we don't have to rush.  This seems like a good time to go - after the tourism of summer wanes, but won't you feel pressured to get back given winter can come very early up there?  Thanks for sharing your route and plans - I have a few more years to plan it all out so I'll be looking forward to hearing about your trip later in the year!!

 

[BackofBeyond]

11 hours ago, John E Davies said:

RB, we plan to leave the return trip pretty much wide open, so we can adjust our schedule depending on weather, wildfire smoke and stuff we find to do. We do not actually need to “recreate” on the way home at all, BC is our “back yard” so to speak, it is just 90 miles to Canada, eh, though we have not explored much of it except for the lower 100 mile tall strip of BC and AB. It will be easy for us to access there in the future. Alaska, not so much..... it is still a fair drive, even from here in the Pacific NW...

I understand the .44 mag, unfortunately I can no longer comfortably shoot a big revolver due to worsening peripheral neuropathy. I do plan to bring my Henry Big Boy X .44 Mag lever rifle, with bear loads. I will keep it loaded and close at hand when camping, and I could lug it around on hikes, but it will be a whole lot less comfy than a handgun, though I expect it would cause no raised eyebrows in remote parts of AK. In Canada I cannot carry it anywhere (unless I happened to be hunting with a resident guide). 😥 I will feel naked with only bear spray. I do understand the firearm declaration laws for Canada.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

I was amazed to need Bear spray while walking in Valdez - seems bears like civilization, but do not care for regulations. While in Denali  - We had a bear incident happen the day before we set out on a long hike. Seems a large one had assaulted (new wave speak) a couple  - on same trail we were headed to - and closed it for a week - for the second time.  So we went to the dog kennels and had a great time talking and discovering . Previously in the trip - a similar situation near Glacier - only the biker was "terminated" by a bear - on a trail we were planned to hike.  However - we managed to get in several hikes n bikes. 

I didn't carry - only had spray - as Canada is tough on guns, However, Alaska is very gun friendly, Native AK's usually had appropriate firearms while out in nature. I did borrow something from my son - who resides in North Pole - while in AK.

Did not do the Kennecott tour - should have - will next time.  

We tried to never take the same roads twice - where possible. Most roads were decent - well that was - now - 5 years ago this summer - but the sections of mud and gravel - under construction - were brutal. Large caravans formed, oncoming traffic threw up glass cracking stones, and your own contrails were similar.  If we go back - Oliver will be well covered in its front sections. Frost and freeze heaves will sneak up on you - beware - if there is a cone in the road - slow.....

Being self - contained will make the trip much easier - and less selective on the where to stay issue. 

Happy Trails.

 

[SeaDawg]

We went to Kennicott mine about six years ago. It's a very interesting tour. The old mine building is rickety, and lots of old staircases, and in a few places, ladders to climb or descend. The waiver we had to sign was 3 or 4 pages long. However, the main building will be closed this summer, according to the website, for much needed renovations. That's a shame.

If you go, take the van ride from the little depot in McCarthy to the mine. We missed the jog to the right to catch the van, and wound up walking about five miles to the mine. We caught a van on the way back. Still, my friend's pedometer showed we walked about 10 miles that day.

The McCarthy road is indeed pretty bad. It's narrow and rutted, and as part of it is an old railroad bed, our guide told us occasionally old spikes work there way to the surface. ( We took a van ride from Chitina, since we were driving someone else's brand new rv, with no spare.) There is a parking lot where you can park your vehicle, though, and walk across the bridge to town. I  think you'd be wise to leave the Ollie in the rv park, in Chitina, for the day. The drive out to McCarthy from Chitina is about 2 hours, each way. We camped by the side of the road, next to one if the bridges coming into Chitina, but the rv park isn't expensive, has water and a dump station, and would be a more secure place for your trailer. It's a long day. You'll probably want to stay there the night before and after. 

There's a free "public" camping area closer to town, but it looked pretty dodgy. I wouldn't leave my trailer there, I don't think. We parked the rv for the day in the little city lot in Chitina, where the van picked us up. 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by SeaDawg
Add info

[John E Davies]

2 hours ago, BackofBeyond said:

I was amazed to need Bear spray while walking in Valdez - seems bears like civilization 

SNIP

I didn't carry - only had spray - as Canada is tough on guns, However, Alaska is very gun friendly, Native AK's usually had appropriate firearms while out in nature. I did borrow something from my son - who resides in North Pole - while in AK.

I have been rethinking a revolver, and your comment reinforces that. I can shoot, it just really hurts my joints from the brutal recoil. But I think that would be a minor issue if charged by a brown bear... I may look for an inexpensive Taurus 44 (4” barrel, 45 ounces of steel, ported barrel, $500 street price) and ship it direct to this place in Tok. It can go by medium USPS flat rate box each way, $25 including $600 of insurance, they charge a $30 fee (senior discounted by $5) at their end to receive and hold it, and then they resend it for $30 plus shipping when I depart AK. Plus whatever the gun shop charges at my end to handle it. But an actual FFL transfer is NOT needed and specialized shipping is not needed if I ship to myself C/O the destination store. It would be much easier if they would just rent out these things for a month.... but I could either sell the Taurus there as I left the state, or do that here after it gets back to WA. 

https://alaskagunshipping.com/shipping-your-handgun-alaska/

OTH, it would cost just Canada$25 to bring my rifle, and the permit is good for 60 days, and multiple border crossings. Did you see folks strolling along with slung long guns, or would that look too odd on a Valdez bike path? 

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited March 10, 2021 by John E Davies

[John E Davies]

1 hour ago, SeaDawg said:

The McCarthy road is indeed pretty bad. It's narrow and rutted, and as part of it is an old railroad bed, our guide told us occasionally old spikes work there way to the surface. ( We took a van ride from Chitina, since we were driving someone else's brand new rv, with no spare).

I am considering bringing a second dismounted truck tire, for just this reason, if I do slash a sidewall and end up using the main spare, I could have that other tire mounted and put it back under the bed. Otherwise I will have to wait and find a replacement, which would be expensive and require a trip to a city, and locating a matching size and brand would be harder. And all this is a huge hassle and $$$. I am guessing that many of the small towns in the boonies have a tire store or repair shop that could mount it. (???)

Airing down the tires really helps to reduce flats but that won’t stop a spike or a big knifelike shard of stone.

What do you think of the timing, should we leave WA a week earlier and brave the Labor Day holiday crowds? Unfortunately the Canadians also celebrate on the same Monday....

Thanks, everybody.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited March 10, 2021 by John E Davies

[bugeyedriver]

I traveled in that direction a few years back and it was very memorable.  Just a few miles northeast of Jasper, there is a free "overflow" RV parking which has    adequate bathroom facilities available.  There is plenty of room to spread out and social distance, as you desire.  I see you are considering HWY 40 between Hinton and Grand Prairie.  During our trip, there was horrendous construction going on to widen the road.  It was a two lane highway and there were no shoulders, instead, the pavement abruptly ended and there was a 3 ft vertical drop into mud.  Oh, and the potholes were big enough to swallow a VW Bug.  Hopefully it has been completed, but if you determine work is still ongoing, it may be safer to go a bit out of your way to avoid it.

You will enjoy the Denali Highway.  I did it in two days and stayed overnight boondocking at a pull-off.  Suggest you pull off early because they are well sought after. 

About your routing, have you given thought to heading up to Dawson and taking the Top of the World Highway from Dawson, Yukon to Chicken, Alaska?  That was a very memorable portion of our trip.  If you go that way, after "seeing" Dawson, take the ferry across the river and stay at the campground on the west side of the Yukon River.  That way you can get on the road earlier, not needing to wait your turn for the ferry crossing.   Don't go on either the Top of the World or Denali highways during or immediately after strong rains!  

Be sure to count all of the bears and Moose and give us a count upon your return.

ENJOY!

 

 

[BackofBeyond]

1 hour ago, John E Davies said:

I am considering bringing a second dismounted truck tire, for just this reason, if I do slash a sidewall and end up using the main spare, I could have that other tire mounted and put it back under the bed. Otherwise I will have to wait and find a replacement, which would be expensive and require a trip to a city, and locating a matching size and brand would be harder. And all this is a huge hassle and $$$. I am guessing that many of the small towns in the boonies have a tire store or repair shop that could mount it. (???)

Airing down the tires really helps to reduce flats but that won’t stop a spike or a big knifelike shard of stone.

What do you think of the timing, should we leave WA a week earlier and brave the Labor Day holiday crowds? Unfortunately the Canadians also celebrate on the same Monday....

Thanks, everybody.

John Davies

Spokane WA

JD -I specifically purchased a second spare for Ollie just for this type trip. The TV - well - it will have to get by on one spare! I did see a tire shop or two in BC - AK is just like home.

Bugeyedriver is good on the routing - you can go up one way - come back another.

Were it me - I leave sooner than later.

I never saw anyone carrying a rifle - other than at the range - a public place near Fairbanks - was not the usual Gun Range!!!

And Bison - on the route home - were all over the road - as we went east - Glad we were not traveling at night - it would not have been a good  time.

Happy Trails

 

[SeaDawg]

Paul said if we were in our own vehicle, and had a spare,  he would have driven the McCarthy road. Lots of people do. It's slow going anyway. Back in the day, when Alaska roads were mostly unpaved, my uncle carried a pair of spares every summer when they drove up to visit his brother. I don't know how many people do that anymore. We don't. 

As far as departure date from where you live, I'd consider a week earlier, depending on how you want to see Denali and Kennicot. The buses throughout the Denali park quit running , I think, mid-september, and some of the campgrounds close. 

Once you get to Alaska, you can "camp" anywhere in pullout that are often more scenic than campgrounds. The holiday weekends in Canada are busy in the campgrounds,  for sure, but in the Yukon, that's only been a problem for us if we're close to Whitehorse. That said, we've not been up that way in the fall. We're usually out by mid June.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by SeaDawg

[SeaDawg]

How many hours a day do you plan to drive to get to Tok? Are you planning to skip Lake Louise, Jasper? The icefields Parkway? Since they're relatively close to home for you?

Banff would be my first "skip." It's way too crowded and touristy, for my taste. But, I  really like Jasper. It's a very nice small town, good services, restaurants,  etc. We had elk wandering through our campsite in the national park.

Camping at the icefields parkway visitor center is a parking lot overnight, no services, just a parking lot. But you can watch the glacier crawlers across the way, and the visitors center is interesting. 

Hythe Alberta has a very nice, clean, and inexpensive city campground. Free showers in the converted caboose bath houses, free firewood, very flat. You won't have to unhook. 

Grande Prairie has lots of shopping. We needed some electronics bits, and found a Best Buy, and some great fish at a roadside stand, there.

We've stopped in Dawson Creek for the obligatory photo in the town circle, for the beginning of the Alaska highway. I  don't remember anything else about it.

[SeaDawg]

Going north, ft Nelson and ft st john. On to Muncho Lake. Strawberry Flats campground was empty but for us in late May, one year. Beautiful turquoise water and views. Pit toilet, gravel. A ranger came around once a day to clean and collect fees.. There are a couple small campgrounds like it on the lake. Not to be missed, imo. Now, you're almost to the wide open spaces of the Yukon, our favorite. 

YT campgrounds are mostly really lovely, and rustic. Clean pit toilets. Free firewood. Some are on lakes and rivers. $12 Canadian,  for all that. (In October, as in early spring, they'll be free, but not maintained, and some will be gated off.) 

Edited March 10, 2021 by SeaDawg

[John E Davies]

We will go nowhere near the Big Parks on the way up, we have seen them (and canoed on Lake Louise), but we will pass through there on the way back if we take the eastern route. We want to cover lots of miles each day going up, so we can take it easy in AK. Coming back down will depend on lots of things, but we hope to do some wandering then.

It is looking like an earlier departure from Washington will be prudent. Thanks for all the comments.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Jim and Chris Neuman]

You will have a wonderful time!  I have always gone up the Eastern route and back down on the Cassiar but the reverse would work just as well.  Up until about 10 - 15 years ago, you could pretty well kiss off your windshield but now the route is virtually all paved (with the exception of the Denali Highway).  On our last trip, during the summer of 2018, we found the roads to be in very good shape and experienced few rock dings on the front of our RV, an Aliner.  When we go up again in two years we will probably put a temporary gravel shield on the front of our new Ollie 2 but otherwise am not too concerned about it.  A bigger concern is the presence of an endless stream of frost heaves and the occasional, trailer-swallowing pothole.  Dampening the porposing brought on by frost heaves is a good argument for the Anderson system.  I have seen a number of trailers with broken axels and frames on the loop.

Do take your camera, fishing pole and, most importantly, lots of time.  Six weeks to two months will allow you to only hit the high spots and I guarantee you will be mumbling to yourself "if only I had more time" as you pass countless lakes, rivers and incredible views.  Lots of campgrounds and boondocking available.

Don't over-do the Bearanoia thing.  Bear spray is no problem to take into Canada and a rifle or shotgun easily transported with proper paperwork.  Don't even think about a handgun.  The real danger is other tourists looking at the scenery instead of the road - that and drunken locals. 

A couple of extra gas cans makes a lot of sense and a 12V tire pump & plug repair kit can't hurt.  Start with good rubber and you will be fine ...  the Canadian and Alaskan road systems are pretty civilized these days.  On our last trip we threw a couple kayaks on top of the pickup and were really thankful we did.

Do have a great time and let us know how it goes.

 

 

 

[Jim and Chris Neuman]

Just a thought.  You can take a ferry from Whittier to Valdez through Prince William Sound.  Really nice trip if it don't rain ( and whoever heard of rain in PWS? ).  Kind of spendy, especially with a trailer, but amazing sail.  At Anchorage you go East up to the top of Turnagain Arm and take a tunnel to Whittier ... an experience in itself.  If possible, take in the town of Hope ... they have a great bar / burger joint and a nice campground.

[Fritz]

I agree with the previous comments about giving yourself time.  We took 8 weeks on our last trip 10 years ago, and it felt rushed.  

The entire Alcan Highway has now all been paved at some point, and most of it is decent enough.  There's plenty of gravel and stones to go around, searching for radiators and windshields, but Neuman describes it as being better now.   Even 10 years ago, the road was way, way better than I what I encountered on my first trip in 1973 hitchhiking to Alaska.  At that point the last 1,500 miles were dirt and gravel, and the road had many arbitrary curves (so that the Russians couldn't take out a straight-line convoy).  The road has been shortened 32 miles by just taking out curves.  And the road was much smoother on the return trip in December, when everything was frozen.  My return ride (an old Toyota Land Cruiser with canvas roof) was towing a utility trailer; an axle broke near the Yukon-Alaska border.  We laid the trailer on the wheel (which we positioned flat on the highway) and drug it over the ice to the White River Road House, where we removed the axle and drove 250 miles to Whitehorse to get it welded.  Temperature while removing the axle? minus 64 degrees F.  But that's another story.

The road to McCarthy, as others have said, is washboarded, but fine if you're not in a hurry.  It was once an old railbed, the last 8 miles of which was built across the Kennecott Glacier to the mine site; this section had to be rebuilt every year as the glacier moved.  We saw old rail under the gravel in a couple places, and were looking for spikes, but saw none.  They apparently kick up when grading the road, and we certainly didn't see graders.  We left our canoe trailer at a campground, but made the trip in the Sprinter van -- no problem.  

I'd allocate at least a week, preferably at least 2 weeks, for the Wrangell-St. Elias and Valdez portion of the trip, so that you'll have a better chance to experience at least some good weather (this applies to Denali as well).  The Wrangell-St. Elias (American) with the adjacent Kluane National Park (Canadian) has 9 of 16 of North America's tallest peaks, and glaciers larger than Rhode Island.  You can't see it all from McCarthy (you can't see it all from anywhere, really, except perhaps by plane), but you might enjoy area more if the weather is good.  And more days gives you a better chance for at least some good weather.  The mine site is really cool, and has a fascinating history; this was, after all, the start of the Kennecott Mining Company.  Another example of why extra time is good: we couldn't even get into McCarthy via the footbridge because of bears on the footbridge-- we simply had to wait.

I liked the area around Valdez -- we rented see kayaks and paddled out into the bay, and, with a group of friends, rented a larger boat to go out 40 miles to see whales and glaciers calving.  Incredibly memorable.  I don't recall seeing people hiking with long guns here (or anywhere for that matter, including on a Kenai backpack trip), but everyone is carrying at least bear spray.  And folks have rifles in vehicles and on 4-wheelers.  In my experience, bears in rural areas are a bit safer, especially if they haven't learned to associate people with food, and if you don't surprise them.  

Bottom line: there's lots of areas in northern BC and the Yukon to explore and be away from crowds (along the Cassiar Highway is a prime example, or along the northern portions of Kluane National Park).  Take a kayak or canoe, if you can; there's lots of places to paddle around in the evening for a few hours.  I'm sure you'll have a great time in however long you have for the trip, but I'd encourage you to take as much time as you possibly can.  

 

 

 

[SeaDawg]

Have any of you come south in October, on the Alcan, or the Cassair? I'm wondering about campground availability, southbound. 

I tend to agree with John on the go quickly as possible through BC/Alberta on the way up, if he's experienced it, and wants to spend more time in Alaska.

 Coming home as season is ending would be my concern, especially on the Cassair. There's not much from Boya Lake to Terrace, except of course, some beautiful scenery and campgrounds, which may close in September.  We've driven the Cassair a few times, but always early season, just after opening. 

[SeaDawg]

23 minutes ago, Fritz said:

.  I'm sure you'll have a great time in however long you have for the trip, but I'd encourage you to take as much time as you possibly can.  

I agree. 

And, once you've been there, your winter will probably be spent planning your next trip.

[John E Davies]

Thanks for all the comments so far. We have altered our plans, we will take five weeks instead of three, leaving around August 1. This depends on the Canadian borders opening up, it is possible that they will remain closed through September or beyond☹️. If they don’t open, we will explore the US West and try again for Alaska next year.

We considered flying up and renting, but that has its own issues, and leaving “Mouse” behind seemed like a horrible thing to do to him. I want an “Ollie under the Northern lights” picture....

Related thread:

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/5408-alaska-if-you-figure-just-the-drivable-places-it-isnt-that-big

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited April 8, 2021 by John E Davies

[Galway Girl]

John,

Watching as we’re planning for a 2022 Alaska trip July-Mid Sept.  We would go up to Canada from Everett and Loop Back through Spokane to hit Jasoer Glacier on way back.

If you need a milepost book we have a spare 2020 I could ship to you.  PM me if you want it. 

Craig

 

 

 

[John E Davies]

24 minutes ago, Galway Girl said:

If you need a milepost book we have a spare 2020 I could ship to you.  PM me if you want it. 

Thanks for the kind offer, after borrowing the 2020 edition from the library, I bought the 2021 version, which shipped from the publisher just a week ago, and I also downloaded the "dumb" pdf version (172 MB) so I would be able to use my iPad anywhere. Unfortunately the Milepost app for IOS is really lame, it requires an internet connection to see all the features, hardly suitable for the middle of AK. But logging in to the app and opening it up to your purchased book does offer that download button in the top right corner. You can also log in to the Milepost website to read, but again, that takes internet.

Please offer your 2020 paper book to somebody else.

FYI if you plan to travel inside any Canadian National Parks you can't have a firearm, in my case I don't plan to stop at any, but if I did, I would camp outside the Park and leave the bear rifle locked in the trailer while I toured the Park in the Land Cruiser.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited April 9, 2021 by John E Davies

[BackofBeyond]

John.  I hope the Canadian's open the  borders in time for summer travel, but I don't have a lot of faith it will happen. As you said - the West still has a lot to be explored. Hope all works out - Heck - you still have that little hamlet of a state - Montana to really delve into.😜

[Mike and Carol]

I’ve been reading about some significant challenges getting through Canada over on AirForums.  Hopefully that situation is resolved before your trip.