Eliminating phantom electrical loads for long term storage.

[John E Davies]

Has anybody messed around with this? I am trying to get my unknown loads completely eliminated or reduced. I want to be able to run ONLY the Natures Head toilet fan off the lithium batteries, to keep the bacteria happy. I don’t want to keep plugged into shore power with the converter running because that is not great for the battery health, and it is stored indoors, so no solar. For example... these are the current readings on my VictronConnect app:

Phantom (no known loads): 0.12 amps

Toilet fan ON: 0.16 amps (+0.04)

Propane detector ON: 0.21 amps (+0.05) - Solution: added a manual power switch.

Stereo ON: 0.36. amps (+0.15) - Solution: turned off circuit breaker in rear overhead closet.

I found these possible extra reductions:

Redarc DC to DC charger: 0.01 amps - Solution: turn off its circuit breaker

Blue Sea overhead circuit breaker LED lighting 0.01 amps - requires opening the unit and cutting wires. Not practical.

Any other possibilities? I have pulled fuses and tried all sorts of things, I still cannot figure out where that extra power is going. The Victron BMV-712 Smart Battery Monitor uses just 0.001 amp. I am getting there, I was at 0.36A and am now at 0.15A with just the toilet fan turned on. Maybe I should call that good...? Am I anal? No need to answer that one.... I suppose I should be out camping.

EDIT: 0.15 amps x 24 hrs x 30 days = 108 amp hrs per month. So it would flatten my 200 AH bank in two months. Sure I can keep recharging it, but I would rather not just keep adding cycles. Maybe I will rewire the NH circuit, as suggested by a member, and power that “keep alive” wire with the master switch turned off.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by John E Davies

[Mike and Carol]

I wrestled with this after replacing my AGM’s with Lithium’s.  I also store under cover, so solar isn’t a factor.  I also didn’t want to leave the charger on long term.  I turned everything off I could and unplugged what I could and still had about 1 AH draw.  So, I was leaving the charger off and every few days I’d stop by and turn it on for a while to put some charge into the batteries.  That got old pretty fast.  Now, I just turn the batteries off.  I think we should be out camping!  Mike

[John E Davies]

I found a possible way to eliminate the Blue Sea 5376 rear circuit breaker LED lights. Has anybody tried this?

I started a Service Ticket asking about disabling the lighting.

EDIT - Service says that removing that lighting wire will work. It should be simple enough (remembering to cap or insulate the loose hot wire)....

Thanks,

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited March 15, 2021 by John E Davies

[Geronimo John]

My Ollie sits for about 8 months in a dark barn with the batteries hooked up to a 1.5 amp battery maintainer.  As I don't have a Nature's Head, and I always service the batteries both at the end of the season, and again before my first trip...........   I just disconnect the negative battery cable.  I'm down to zero phantom electrical loads guaranteed.  

[Ray and Susan Huff]

On 3/11/2021 at 2:42 PM, Mike and Carol said:

I wrestled with this after replacing my AGM’s with Lithium’s.  I also store under cover, so solar isn’t a factor.  I also didn’t want to leave the charger on long term.  I turned everything off I could and unplugged what I could and still had about 1 AH draw.  So, I was leaving the charger off and every few days I’d stop by and turn it on for a while to put some charge into the batteries.  That got old pretty fast.  Now, I just turn the batteries off.  I think we should be out camping!  Mike

I agree; camping is much more enjoyable than worrying about battery SOC 😁 

[Ray and Susan Huff]

On 3/11/2021 at 2:11 PM, John E Davies said:

Has anybody messed around with this? I am trying to get my unknown loads completely eliminated or reduced. I want to be able to run ONLY the Natures Head toilet fan off the lithium batteries, to keep the bacteria happy. I don’t want to keep plugged into shore power with the converter running because that is not great for the battery health, and it is stored indoors, so no solar. For example... these are the current readings on my VictronConnect app:

Phantom (no known loads): 0.12 amps

Toilet fan ON: 0.16 amps (+0.04)

Propane detector ON: 0.21 amps (+0.05) - Solution: added a manual power switch.

Stereo ON: 0.36. amps (+0.15) - Solution: turned off circuit breaker in rear overhead closet.

I found these possible extra reductions:

Redarc DC to DC charger: 0.01 amps - Solution: turn off its circuit breaker

Blue Sea overhead circuit breaker LED lighting 0.01 amps - requires opening the unit and cutting wires. Not practical.

Any other possibilities? I have pulled fuses and tried all sorts of things, I still cannot figure out where that extra power is going. The Victron BMV-712 Smart Battery Monitor uses just 0.001 amp. I am getting there, I was at 0.36A and am now at 0.15A with just the toilet fan turned on. Maybe I should call that good...? Am I anal? No need to answer that one.... I suppose I should be out camping.

EDIT: 0.15 amps x 24 hrs x 30 days = 108 amp hrs per month. So it would flatten my 200 AH bank in two months. Sure I can keep recharging it, but I would rather not just keep adding cycles. Maybe I will rewire the NH circuit, as suggested by a member, and power that “keep alive” wire with the master switch turned off.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

 

If you aren't taking your Oliver at least once every two months you are missing out  . . . . . 

[Ray and Susan Huff]

On 3/11/2021 at 4:14 PM, John E Davies said:

I found a possible way to eliminate the Blue Sea 5376 rear circuit breaker LED lights. Has anybody tried this?

I started a Service Ticket asking about disabling the lighting.

Thanks,

John Davies

Spokane WA

Where are these lights?  I realize you have a 2017 Elite II.  Perhaps it's equipment is different than our 2021 model.  Or could this be one of your infamous mods?

[John E Davies]

2 hours ago, Ray and Susan Huff said:

Where are these lights?  I realize you have a 2017 Elite II.  Perhaps it's equipment is different than our 2021 model.  Or could this be one of your infamous mods?

LOL, “infamous” thank you very much, now I feel like a bank robber. That is the rear circuit breaker panel installed in the street side of the rear overhead compartment AKA “the attic”. If you don’t have that particular unit (it is extremely high quality and about $220) then there is probably something very similar. Take a look and let us know, maybe post a pic.....

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

[Jim_Oker]

What about disconnecting at the positive battery terminals and  then using one of these plugged into  shore  power? 

[Jim_Oker]

On 3/11/2021 at 2:11 PM, John E Davies said:

with the master switch turned off.

What do you mean by "the master switch?" At least on my trailer there  is  no  such beast per Jason in service. He said I needed  to disconnect at the terminals to eliminate phantom loads on the  batteries.

[John E Davies]

Jim, I installed a master battery shutoff switch, it is not factory issue. I thought about a simple plug in power supply like that one you provided a link for, but that particular one is crazy overpirced. It is worth about $10. 

Thanks,

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

[Jim_Oker]

9 hours ago, John E Davies said:

but that particular one is crazy overpirced

Yes, if you  know the polarity, voltage, size of the  little cylindrical  plug part, and rough number  of amps you can usually  find an alternative  that  will  work fine since there isn't a lot of variety  with  these types of power supply plugs. There are tons of  variants  on Amazon for  instance. I recently went through this to find an alternative to the OEM $45 plug for  a kitchen  scale whose original  plug's flimsy  wires  had  broken. I got a much  sturdier one than  the  OEM version  for indeed about $10.

[Jim_Oker]

As to an  "overpriced" $40 item, I always  try to remind myself to ask whether it's really worth the effort I'm considering to work around just buying  the thing that costs $30 more than it should 😉 (that said, in this case I think it would not take long to source a very  suitable ~$10 option 🙂 )

[Ray and Susan Huff]

23 hours ago, John E Davies said:

LOL, “infamous” thank you very much, now I feel like a bank robber. That is the rear circuit breaker panel installed in the street side of the rear overhead compartment AKA “the attic”. If you don’t have that particular unit (it is extremely high quality and about $220) then there is probably something very similar. Take a look and let us know, maybe post a pic.....

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

Where in relation to the PI surge protector display?  All I can see in the attic is the outlet for the TV, USB/12v plug and the surge protector display.  Both sides of the attic are faced with a rigid panel, set out a bit from the side wall with connecting bolts at the bottom.  If there's a breaker panel there, it isn't easily accessible. However, I think I remember seeing two panels under the rear dinette seat.

This brings up another question: Does anyone know what the HDMI and coax cables in the attic are for?  I know they probably have something to do with the entertainment system, but what?  We don't have the TV antenna or Satellite, just cable connection.

I need to read the manual, I guess.  It's just that I usually can't find the answer to my questions there 😠

Edited March 15, 2021 by Ray and Susan Huff
forgot to attach pictures

[Ray and Susan Huff]

The rear dinette seat has the Progressive Dynamics Power Control Center (breaker box) and Fuse panel.  I don't see any light display, though. 

The front dinette seat has 12v plug, USB plug, CO/LP monitor, and electrical outlet.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

Looks like this breaker panel and this fuse panel

[John E Davies]

EDIT: disconnected the Blue Sea CB panel backlight. .... https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/5405-how-to-disconnect-the-attic-blue-sea-circuit-breaker-backlight-10-milliamp-phantom-drain/

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited April 7, 2021 by John E Davies

[Galway Girl]

Ray and Susan - the pix John is posting are of things likely not in your trailer either because he's added them or they from the earlier model year EII's.

Earlier models up through 2019 had a Progressive Dynamics 4000 Energy Center under our Dinette Seat.

(PD4000 Energy Center under dinette seat, but with Cover OFF) - 

The PD4000 unit housed AC Breakers, SOME DC fuses (but not all) and the power Converter that charges our batteries.
The rest of the DC Fuses were in a small fuse box in the attic next to the surge protector display.

In the newer models like yours they switched to a new set of energy panels for AC Breakers and DC Fuses (all in one convenient place under the dinette) as shown in your pix.   They also changed to either a 2000 W or 3000 W  combined Xantrex inverter/charger...which is able to be programmed for a charge profile for Lithium Batteries from a variety of vendors.

So looking at some of our posts for other pre 2020 unit pictures could be a bit confusing if you are thinking your missing some new or special feature.

Craig

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Galway Girl

[SeaDawg]

3 hours ago, Galway Girl said:

So looking at some of our posts for other pre 2020 unit pictures could be a bit confusing if you are thinking your missing some new or special featur

This is so true. 

Older models, and newer models, have different equipment. 

Thanks for pointing that out, @galwaygirl

[tripmushrv]

Sorry to hijack this thread....but would this work for the Ollie I will be getting (that will have 4x 6V AGM batteries):  https://www.amazon.com/Ampper-Battery-Disconnect-Isolator-Vehicle/dp/B07413JWLD/    ?    The specs say:  275 A continuous at DC 12V, 455 A intermittent at DC 12V, 1250 A momentary at DC 12V

But I think that 4x 6V AGM would give me 400 amps, right?   (Edited - sorry, that would be maybe 400 amp hours...I'm confused!)

Or do I need something like this:  https://www.amazon.com/Ampper-Battery-Disconnect-Isolator-Vehicle/dp/B07PN9DR6C/?th=1   ?  It says:  600 A continuous at DC 12V, 2500 A momentary at DC 12V.

 

 

[ScubaRx]

1 hour ago, tripmushrv said:

...But I think that 4x 6V AGM would give me 400 amps, right?   (Edited - sorry, that would be maybe 400 amp hours...I'm confused!)...

 

 

The amp draw is determined by the appliance that is being used. If it is a small 12 volt fan it might be taking an amp or two out of the batteries. If you were trying to run a small  electric heater using your inverter it might be drawing 100 amps. The batteries will only output what is needed for a given situation. It would be virtually impossible to have enough things on at the same time to draw a continuous 275 amps. I believe the smaller switch would do just fine.

And, BTW, don't try running an electric heater using your inverter and batteries, they will be dead-dead in an hour or so.

[John E Davies]

tripmushrv, please be extremely wary of cheap no name China made components like those. Not only are they possibly poorly made, they have no customer service to speak of.  For something as critical as a master cutoff switch, buy a quality marine (boat) part like most of your system. Switches like these require modifying your wires, are you skilled enough to make high quality crimps, or willing to pay a shop for the work? If not, buy the type that attaches directly to the battery positive post, no additional wiring is needed. I do not care for them personally, for a number of reasons, but many owners are happy with them.

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/5450-how-to-battery-master-cutoff-switch-under-the-rear-dinette-seat/

John Davies

Spokane WA

[tripmushrv]

Thanks for the info, guys.  John - I checked out your master battery cutoff switch post - and it looks very nice!  But am looking for something a bit simpler.  Do you think something like this would work    https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Disconnect-Isolator-Horizontal-Vertical/dp/B07Z4R7W2D/     ?

 

 

[John E Davies]

2 hours ago, tripmushrv said:

Thanks for the info, guys.  John - I checked out your master battery cutoff switch post - and it looks very nice!  But am looking for something a bit simpler.  Do you think something like this would work    https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Disconnect-Isolator-Horizontal-Vertical/dp/B07Z4R7W2D/     ?

That is intended for an automotive battery, with a tapered top post. All Ollie batteries have screw-on terminals, a completely different style.

This is the type that Oliver used to use on their factory lithium batteries. This particular one is a Bussman, a medium quality brand. Not as good as marine parts, but definitely better than the Chinese clones...

Why don’t you just have Oliver Service install one of these onto your AGM batteries? 

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Geronimo John]

My combination wrench was paid for 50 years ago.  It works real good on the terminal to disconnect and kill all loads.  Cost me about 90 seconds longer than switching a switch.  Just saying why add more weight for almost no value?