Xantrex DC Power Draw

[GAP]

While not on the road, i've recently started keeping my Elite 2 plugged in to power a dehumidifier.  As I did not want to have the charger constantly topping off the lithium batteries Per manufacturer's suggestion), I went to #26 in the Xantrex menu and set to Auto which disables the charger but still allows incoming for AC power for 110v devices such as the dehumidifier.  After about a week, I noticed that my two 200ah lithiums had drained down about 25% which is way way more then the normal parasitic draw would account for - LP/carbon monoxide detector, lights on the stereo display, etc...  In checking the Xantrex display, I can clearly see that the dehumidifier is drawing power from the shore source and not from the batteries. 

My gut tells me that the increased draw is from the Xantrex itself. The unit turns on automatically when the trailer is plugged into an AC source so I'm guessing that the power supplying the unit itself is drawing directly from the 12v system.

Does anyone know if I'm on the right track?

GAP

[Ronbrink]

It’s hard to believe there were no responses to your post! Since recently upgrading my 2020 OLEll, 579 (no solar) to LFPs and installing a Victron SmartShunt, I found that the Xantrex does not provide any charge once an initial charge cycle is completed following connection to shore  power. Thus, a steady battery discharge occurs and will eventually deplete them to a harmful level unless the charge cycle is ‘manually’ restarted. Your statement regarding setting #26 leads me to believe the Xantrex charger can be disabled and perhaps a separate charger, specific to lithiums, could be installed to continuously maintain the battery bank, if desired. I also learned that the Xantrex draws 1Ah when in the Off position, which would explain your observation expressed. Overtime you have probably reached an understanding of your system and how to manage it. However, if you or others can confirm the use of a dedicated battery charger for continuous battery maintenance, I would very much appreciate any information on the matter.

[Ronbrink]

Earth to Anybody out there!

[topgun2]

34 minutes ago, Ronbrink said:

Earth to Anybody out there!

At least I'm still here!

But, 4 eight year old lead acid batteries and a old inverter isn't going to do much to add to the question asked - sorry😔

[MAX Burner]

@GAP, @Ronbrink:  If understanding the problem correctly, it would seem that if y'all have a 350amp BlueSeas Systems master switch at the battery bank selected to the "OFF" position, it would be able to maintain the Lithium bank SOC (except for the 1 - 2% SOC normal monthly loss) during storage.  Shore power would energize the heater/humidifier and not affect battery bank.  Or, I might be missing something.

[Ronbrink]

1 hour ago, MAX Burner said:

Or, I might be missing something.

You are exactly right, isolating the battery bank is a solution. However, my OLEll did not come with a battery cut-off switch. That said, I should probably install the switch for good measure. In fact I bought the one mentioned when upgrading to LFPs, but returned it because my Son said the Xantrex inverter/charger should keep them continuously topped-off. His statement was based on experience with his former motorhome, wherein a Magnum I/C did just that when on shore power or generator. Unbeknownst to us both, the Xantrex model I have only has an initial charge cycle. But here’s my perceived dilemma: I have read where owners able to utilize solar can keep their batteries continuously charged when in storage and not being used, thus no reliance on the Xantrex in that regard. My thinking is, and please tell me if wrong, that since I don’t have solar the alternative, i.e. dedicated, lithium-specific charger, would do the same when on shore power. 

[Geronimo John]

56 minutes ago, Ronbrink said:

I have read where owners able to utilize solar can keep their batteries continuously charged when in storage and not being used

Some lithium batteries manufacturers, such as BattleBorn, do NOT want their batteries on a continuous charge when in storage and not being used.  Keeping them on float at 100% is bad for their batteries.  Recommend you ask that question to your battery mfg just to be sure.

GJ

[SeaDawg]

I'd agree with @Geronimo John.  We don't have lithium in our Ollie, but we do have lithium powering our house, and a car, phones, vacuum, rtc.  Best practice is (typically) not continuous charge, but let it go 50 to 85 per cent, full charge occasionally, to restore the algorithm calculations

setting 26 on the xantrex means charging off, as it's not "ignition charging." IS the inverter actually off? Have you checked to see if water heater was inadvertently left on, in electric setting, if you have standard 6 gallon? That's been a big draw for some folks, in the past. just a thought...

Best of luck. 

[Ronbrink]

Thanks all for your advice, once again guilty of ‘overthinking’! Take pleasure in knowing you have successfully changed my ‘continuous charge’ mind set. Followed up on GJ’s recommendation and confirmed my batteries are to be maintained in the same manner as his BattleBorns, as are lithiums in general. Also to MAX Burner’s point, I have ordered a master cutoff switch to lessen the worrisome battery drawdown issue. To SeaDawg’s point, I don’t think the inverter is ever actually Off unless the battery power is totally isolated; that 1Ah draw indicated on the EMS is likely that of the inverter in ‘standby mode’, or am I ‘overthinking ‘ again!

[MAX Burner]

Why OTT initial builds do not come with a master battery bank cut-off switch is not understood by this Oliver owner.  I'm sure there's an explanation and that some of the owners on the forums know the answer - just haven't had the occasion to ask them back at the Mother Ship, "...why no DC cut-off switch?"  

One could make a safety argument for having the switch accessible from the outside in the case of a fire inside.  Securing the battery bank immediately after escaping an interior fire situation could save some of the trailer, or certainly keep responders from experiencing electrical burns while attending to a trailer on fire scenario.  Not that it means much, but our vintage AS rigs ('72 Overlander and '84 Sovereign) came with such a switch, FYI.

[Rivernerd]

23 hours ago, MAX Burner said:

Why OTT initial builds do not come with a master battery bank cut-off switch is not understood by this Oliver owner. 

Our Hull #1291, 2022 Elite II, includes the Lithium Pro Package.  Each of the 3 Lithionics G31 batteries has its own on/off switch.  I see no need for a "master" DC cutoff switch with this package.

[SeaDawg]

Maxburner's #226, like our older trailer, probably didn't come with a battery cutoff switch. 

We had to install one. 

Even so, when working on electrical problems, we disconnect from shore power, AND  cover solar panels with dark blue moving blankets. Belt and suspenders. Nothing in, nothing out, to spark. 

 

[Cameron]

I think in the situation you describe I would be more likely to just turn off the batteries and use an extension cord from your outside outlet to power the dehumidifier. 

[Ronbrink]

On 11/12/2023 at 10:44 AM, MAX Burner said:

One could make a safety argument for having the switch accessible from the outside in the case of a fire inside.

Would that “outside” location be ‘inside’ the battery compartment or some other accessible place? I see where some have mounted the switch atop the batteries.

[MobileJoy]

21 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

Our Hull #1291, 2022 Elite II, includes the Lithium Pro Package.  Each of the 3 Lithionics G31 batteries has its own on/off switch.  I see no need for a "master" DC cutoff switch with this package.

I generally agree with this statement. However, if you are storing your OEII, leaving the batteries installed, turning on the heating pads, and connecting an external charger to prevent depletion, then you have to leave the batteries on. In that case, a master cutoff switch would shut down all parasitic draws in the OEII. As Geronimo John pointed out in a different thread, a small propane leak and leaving the tanks turned on during storage could lead to propane pooling and possible ignition, so having the interior devices turned off is an additional safety precaution.

If you store by depleting charge to 50% and turning off the batteries then there should be no need for a master switch.

[MAX Burner]

1 hour ago, Ronbrink said:

Would that “outside” location be ‘inside’ the battery compartment or some other accessible place?

Correct.  I wasn't specific about the outside switch location, but inside the battery compartment works, further, I didn't realize newer OTTs now have a master DC cut-off switch with certain battery bank options.  But, IMO, it would still be of value to have the capability to externally secure DC power from outside the Oliver in the case of emergency.

[Rivernerd]

2 hours ago, MobileJoy said:

I generally agree with this statement. However, if you are storing your OEII, leaving the batteries installed, turning on the heating pads, and connecting an external charger to prevent depletion, then you have to leave the batteries on. In that case, a master cutoff switch would shut down all parasitic draws in the OEII.

Good point.  During the winter, we store our Hull #1291 in a covered shed, with a 30A shore power connection, and with the battery heater turned on.  So, we don't need an "external charger to prevent depletion", as the Xantrex inverter/charger keeps the battery bank at full charge.  Parasitic draws are, therefore, not an issue.  And, we ensure that the propane tank valves are fully closed when in storage.

Of course, per Lithionics' protocol, every 3 months I draw down the State of Charge to Reserve Cutoff Level, then let the Xantrex charge the batteries back to full charge. 

[Ronbrink]

22 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

Good point.  During the winter, we store our Hull #1291 in a covered shed, with a 30A shore power connection, and with the battery heater turned on.  So, we don't need an "external charger to prevent depletion", as the Xantrex inverter/charger keeps the battery bank at full charge.  Parasitic draws are, therefore, not an issue.  And, we ensure that the propane tank valves are fully closed when in storage.

Of course, per Lithionics' protocol, every 3 months I draw down the State of Charge to Reserve Cutoff Level, then let the Xantrex charge the batteries back to full charge. 

Ugh, I always say “ don’t confuse an already confused man”! My Xantrex will not function in the same manner as yours, it only has an initial charge cycle when first placed on shore power; for subsequent charging it requires a ‘manual’ restart. Thus, parasitic draws are, therefore, an issue in my case. 2020 OLEll, 579. 

[Rivernerd]

1 hour ago, Ronbrink said:

My Xantrex will not function in the same manner as yours, it only has an initial charge cycle when first placed on shore power; for subsequent charging it requires a ‘manual’ restart.

What a pain!  In your shoes, I would open a service ticket and verify with Oliver Service that there is not a fix for that problem.

[Ronbrink]

5 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

What a pain!  In your shoes, I would open a service ticket and verify with Oliver Service that there is not a fix for that problem.

Good idea! Although, as I understand it, my older Xantrex Freedom (non-bluetooth) model is operating as designed. However, I could be wrong about that, could just be a setting issue to remedy so will take your advice. Thanks

[Rivernerd]

1 hour ago, Ronbrink said:

Although, as I understand it, my older Xantrex Freedom (non-bluetooth) model is operating as designed.

If there is no setting change that will enable your Xantrex inverter to keep your battery bank charged without "manual" reset, then installation of the master battery cutoff switch makes sense to prevent parasitic draws from drawing your battery bank down too far.

[Ronbrink]

10 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

If there is no setting change that will enable your Xantrex inverter to keep your battery bank charged without "manual" reset, then installation of the master battery cutoff switch makes sense to prevent parasitic draws from drawing your battery bank down too far.

I do plan to install a master switch regardless, but meanwhile took your advice and submitted a service ticket; will report on Oliver’s response. Again thanks!

[SeaDawg]

12 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

Ugh, I always say “ don’t confuse an already confused man”! My Xantrex will not function in the same manner as yours, it only has an initial charge cycle when first placed on shore power; for subsequent charging it requires a ‘manual’ restart. Thus, parasitic draws are, therefore, an issue in my case. 2020 OLEll, 579. 

You may also wish to speak to Xantrex customer service, along with ott. 

There were some software/firmware upgrades over the years that might help you.

You'll need to stick a phone camera down there, if labels aren't visible. 

Just a thought, as we don't know much about your particular unit.

My xantrex (on our boat) ois older than yours.

[Ronbrink]

9 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

You may also wish to speak to Xantrex customer service, along with ott. 

In an email response from OTT to the service ticket submitted, I was informed they would have to consult with Xantrex and report back.

My service inquiry read as follow:  I would like confirmation on the charging ability, specific to my Xantrex Freedom 2000 (non-bluetooth model). I have been paying more attention to the charge aspect of this unit since upgrading to LFPs and installing a Victron SmartShunt. To the best of my knowledge and observations made, there is an initial charge cycle (80A) when first connected to shore power, but no further charge cycles thereafter unless ‘manually’ restarting by either disconnecting/reconnecting the power cord or by flipping the main circuit breaker Off/On. Is this the norm for my Xantrex or is it not operating correctly? I did use the remote panel to reconfigure the unit settings for use of LFPs, but would appreciate knowing the recommended values to ensure optimum use. 2020 OLEll, 579

OTT’s response:  This is something that I am going to send to xantrex to get their thoughts on. It typically takes a couple of days to hear back from them. I will let you know as soon as they respond with what they say. 

  

 

[Ronbrink]

On 11/16/2023 at 6:17 AM, Ronbrink said:

In an email response from OTT to the service ticket submitted, I was informed they would have to consult with Xantrex and report back.

I am still awaiting a response regarding OTT’s consultation with Xantrex and a definitive answer to my question -  Is this the norm for my Xantrex or is it not operating correctly? I did get the following from Jason E., which implies voltage will be maintained after bulk charge. I think a call in in order!

FURTHER OTT RESPONSE: The charge cycle of the Xantrex can be changed within the settings either manually or by selecting a battery type and temperature. We typically select a battery type and manually update based on the battery manufacturer's recommendation. It will initially charge at a bulk rate which is higher amperage, as low as 30a for standard 12v batteries, 60a for AGMs, and up to 150a for some lithium batteries but this depends on the battery type & number of batteries in the bank. After bulk charge it will maintain the voltage but starts to gradually drop the amperage until it goes into Float charge which will be a low amount of amperage like they are on a battery maintainer.