Xantrex DC Power Draw

[ChadandKelly]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:31 AM, Rivernerd said:

Good point.  During the winter, we store our Hull #1291 in a covered shed, with a 30A shore power connection, and with the battery heater turned on.  So, we don't need an "external charger to prevent depletion", as the Xantrex inverter/charger keeps the battery bank at full charge.  Parasitic draws are, therefore, not an issue.  And, we ensure that the propane tank valves are fully closed when in storage.

Of course, per Lithionics' protocol, every 3 months I draw down the State of Charge to Reserve Cutoff Level, then let the Xantrex charge the batteries back to full charge. 

Good morning, 

How do you “draw down the State of Charge to Reserve Cutoff Level”??  Do you just run loads in the RV while monitoring the battery levels?

In the event of an emergency while boondocking, can you use the Lithium batteries below the Reserve Cutoff Level? If so, what is the process of tapping into this reserve?

Thanks for all the info.

[Dave and Kimberly]

So if I could chime in here... and if one of our moderators believe it should be a separate post please delete this.

    This is my second winter where I've winterized my Oliver (here in Ohio).   I leave the my Lithionics 390ah batteries on so that the battery blanket can protect the batteries from the cold.    I've tried to make sure that anything that could be a draw on the batteries is turned off.  This of course includes the inverter, lights, fans, furnace, Truma water heater, Furrion system, 3-way fridge.   Because I store at home, I simply plug in and re-charge the batteries as needed to maintain the battery heaters.

    With all of the above... does a daily loss of 2~3% seem reasonable?     Note: Last winter I could barely make it 3 weeks before I'd have to hook up and recharge.   

[Rivernerd]

2 hours ago, ChadandKelly said:

How do you “draw down the State of Charge to Reserve Cutoff Level”??  Do you just run loads in the RV while monitoring the battery levels?

Yes.  After disconnecting shore power, I started out by just leaving the 12V lights on to run down our 390 Ah Lithionics Lithium Pro Package battery bank.  After a couple of days, I chose to accelerate the draw-down process by running a 120V space heater plugged into a receptacle with the inverter on.  After a few more hours that day, the BMS in the Lithionics batteries shut them down, as they had reached Reserve Voltage Cutoff (RVC).  I then re-connected shore power.

I put our Hull #1291 into storage in our shed in early November this year.  In early February, I plan to not only turn on all of the 12V lights after disconnecting shore power, but start out with a space heater plugged in to a receptacle, running off of the inverter.  I will then monitor every few hours, until the BMS shuts the batteries down at the RVC level.

[Rivernerd]

1 hour ago, Dave and Kimberly said:

With all of the above... does a daily loss of 2~3% seem reasonable?     Note: Last winter I could barely make it 3 weeks before I'd have to hook up and recharge.   

2-3% daily loss seems reasonable to me, given that the only 12V power draw is for the battery heating mat.  As the heating mat has a thermostat, and only turns on when ambient temps fall below a preset level, I expect the extent of power draw depends on how cold the weather gets.

Per Lithionics Storage Procedure Rev. 7, I keep our Hull #1291 connected to shore power, and perform the procedure for draw-down to Reserve Voltage Cutoff (RVC) every 3 months while in winter storage.  I expect your system of draw-down and recharge every 3 weeks or so accomplishes the same purposes (keeping the Lithionics batteries from freezing and periodically "exercising" the lithium batteries), but requires more frequent monitoring. 

[Rivernerd]

On 12/7/2023 at 6:54 AM, ChadandKelly said:

In the event of an emergency while boondocking, can you use the Lithium batteries below the Reserve Cutoff Level? If so, what is the process of tapping into this reserve?

Yes, you can.  It is my understanding that you simply turn the batteries back on after the BMS turns them off at the RVC level.  BUT, that is for emergencies only.  If you use the Lithionics batteries for too long after reaching RVC, you can permanently damage them.  I would only turn the batteries back on after reaching RVC to run the jacks and get the trailer hooked up to my tow vehicle, then I would turn the batteries off again.  I would then tow the trailer to a place where I could fully recharge the battery system.

That is one reason I carry a generator when boondocking:  so I can recharge should the batteries ever get down to the "shutdown at RVC" point without having to find 30A shore power somewhere. 

[Ronbrink]

On 12/5/2023 at 6:35 AM, Ronbrink said:

I am still awaiting a response regarding OTT’s consultation with Xantrex and a definitive answer to my question -  Is this the norm for my Xantrex or is it not operating correctly?

After a couple more emails regarding my Service Ticket, I received the following:

FINAL OTT RESPONSE: Based on the information you provided to us it does not seem like the inverter is working as it is designed to, this could be due to the settings. That is why the settings were sent to you to verify that all of those are correct. Xantrex would be responsible for this warranty and may have some trouble shooting steps that they would walk you through so I would recommend contacting them directly to see if they would replace under warranty, but I do not know if they would do so as it has a two-year warranty that would have run out on 01/28/2022. 

Xantrex Llc

541 Roske Dr, Elkhart, IN 46516

(800) 670-0707

 

It’s not certain if OTT ever reached out to Xantrex, as told they would, but their evaluation leads me to believe the Xantrex is not operating correctly. NOW for that call I was hoping I wouldn’t have to make! 

[Ronbrink]

On 12/8/2023 at 8:10 AM, Ronbrink said:

It’s not certain if OTT ever reached out to Xantrex, as told they would, but their evaluation leads me to believe the Xantrex is not operating correctly. NOW for that call I was hoping I wouldn’t have to make! 

My call to Xantrex confirmed that my Freedom XC 2000 is not operating correctly! Although the charger is working, as previously described when initially powered, it fails to subsequently maintain a float charge. Xantrex did confirm that my unit settings were all correct and suggested a slight adjustment to the LBCO Recovery Voltage (Setting # 04) may be needed to further the maintenance charging cycles, but to no avail. At this point I plan to install a master cutoff switch, as many have suggested, to prevent drawdown of the LFPs while in storage and on shore power. Ultimately however, I intend to upgrade to a 3000W inverter/charger. 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

The Xantrex inverter in our 2018 LEII failed, and was replaced with a Victron by the previous owner.  I mentioned this to the RV tech who is readying our new truck to also carry our Northern Lite TC, and he mentioned that they no longer recommended Xantrex because of a high (10%) failure rate.

[Ronbrink]

On 12/14/2023 at 6:26 AM, Wandering Sagebrush said:

The Xantrex inverter in our 2018 LEII failed, and was replaced with a Victron by the previous owner.

Curious as to the orientation of your  Victron mount, the recommended vertical/horizontal or a side-mount that is not recommended? I took some measurements yesterday and don’t see how any other than a side-mount would fit where the Xantrex is currently positioned.  I’m considering an upgrade to a 3000W unit, either a Victron or Renogy, but both void the warranty if side-mounted. 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

1 hour ago, Ronbrink said:

Curious as to the orientation of your  Victron mount, the recommended vertical/horizontal or a side-mount that is not recommended? I took some measurements yesterday and don’t see how any other than a side-mount would fit where the Xantrex is currently positioned.  I’m considering an upgrade to a 3000W unit, either a Victron or Renogy, but both void the warranty if side-mounted. 

Since I didn’t do the installation, I don’t have any background on what Victron recommended for the mount.  It is mounted horizontally under the driver side bunk, along the aisle.   BTW, ours is a 2000W.

[John Dorrer]

On 12/14/2023 at 7:26 AM, Wandering Sagebrush said:

The Xantrex inverter in our 2018 LEII failed, and was replaced with a Victron by the previous owner.  I mentioned this to the RV tech who is readying our new truck to also carry our Northern Lite TC, and he mentioned that they no longer recommended Xantrex because of a high (10%) failure rate.

Thanks Steve

 Intend on filing this away, hopefully for a long time. Hope our Xantrex will function for years to come.

[Ronbrink]

46 minutes ago, Wandering Sagebrush said:

t.  It is mounted horizontally under the driver side bunk, along the aisle.

I’m trying to visualize what that would look like, a picture would be much appreciated if able to provide. 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

26 minutes ago, Ronbrink said:

I’m trying to visualize what that would look like, a picture would be much appreciated if able to provide. 

I won’t be able to get a photo for a while, but visualize the unit mounted on edge, running along the inside of the driver side bunk.  It’s just behind the battery compartment.  Open the forward bunk hatch, and it’s directly below, aisle side.

[Ronbrink]

48 minutes ago, Wandering Sagebrush said:

visualize the unit mounted on edge

This leads me to believe your Victron is side-mounted in a vertical position rather than horizontal (bottom down). Apparently the unit will operate in this orientation, as others have successfully mounted likewise. The only precautions I know of is to ensure adequate clearance around the unit for proper ventilation, and that fans can be used if heat becomes an issue in small spaces. 

[Ronbrink]

55 minutes ago, Wandering Sagebrush said:

visualize the unit mounted on edge

I have recently seen pics of a side-mounted Victron. If your’s is in fact different then I would still like a pic, at your convenience, Thanks. 

[Ronbrink]

1 hour ago, Wandering Sagebrush said:

 

My bad, disregard!

[mossemi]

5 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

Curious as to the orientation of your  Victron mount, the recommended vertical/horizontal or a side-mount that is not recommended? I took some measurements yesterday and don’t see how any other than a side-mount would fit where the Xantrex is currently positioned.  I’m considering an upgrade to a 3000W unit, either a Victron or Renogy, but both void the warranty if side-mounted. 

This is a picture of the first MultiPlus installed in a LE2 that I am aware of.   This is a link with more details.

Mossey

[SeaDawg]

We've got info going in two threads now on the Victron multiplus.

I spoke with a friend Thursday night who is Victron trained, and designs Victron systems for boats. He always mounts his vertically, but said it was technically allowed to mount on its side, on a bulkhead. He adds little computer fans for exhaust in enclosed spaces.

Now, you all have me curious, so I checked out the Victron site.

https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2020/10/30/how-to-install-a-multiplus-inverter-charger/

[Ronbrink]

2 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

Now, you all have me curious, so I checked out the Victron site.

I think we’re all sailing in muddy waters!

[mossemi]

1 hour ago, SeaDawg said:

Now, you all have me curious, so I checked out the Victron site.

Excellent tutorial that covers the old style MultiPlus.  The new model is a MultiPlus-II and its form factor is a lot different.  And I don’t believe a vertical installation of either model is possible.  The 120 amp charger covered in that document is way oversized for the wiring and 300 Ah of lithium batteries in my LE2, although the charge current is programmable.

[SeaDawg]

I agree. Many modern boats have enormous battery banks, and 24v systems.

My friend still uses the Multiplus In most of his installs. It's bigger, and different electronics, but tried and true. I asked him about that, too. 

The mpII is indeed smaller, with some updated circuitry.  And had grid-tie capabilities,  from what (little) I understand.  

I'm following all of this with interest, as when the xantrex on our boat eventually goes the way of our old Heart interface, we'll likely replace with Victron:

A) connectivity with other victron devices already installed, and with some  of other brand devices on the boat.

B) our skilled friend would help with the install. (Tie for first reason!)

C) we have plenty of room. No logical space for either, in our Elite, nor do we need it. We're happy with present configuration. 

 

 

[Geronimo John]

On 12/17/2023 at 3:00 AM, Ronbrink said:

Curious as to the orientation of your  Victron mount, the recommended vertical/horizontal or a side-mount that is not recommended? I took some measurements yesterday and don’t see how any other than a side-mount would fit where the Xantrex is currently positioned.  I’m considering an upgrade to a 3000W unit, either a Victron or Renogy, but both void the warranty if side-mounted. 

Tilt.  Below is the Renogy installation instructions..  Kindly scroll down to item 6, and the warning below it. 

 

What I think they are saying is do not mount the unit up and down with the fans below the unit.  Doing so will burn up the unit cause you cut off the air flow.

That said, I mounted mine on the inside wall of the  street side bed, using all the space of my former Xantrex... that died.... and then some forward.  You'll need to add some shims to mount additional phenolic cutting board mounting.  I highly, as n VERY STRONGLY, recommend using SS thru bolts (six I believe) from the unit thru the cutting board, thru shim stock and thru the fiberglass wall below the bed.  Additionally add material below the Renogy to help support it's very heavy heft while installing.  And nimble fingers to get the nylocks on the bolts between the cutting board and the Renogy mounts.  Finally, the heads of the bolts are on the hallway side and have SS fender washers to spread the load.  

This mounting approach survived 45 days in Alaska, but the kitchen drawers did not.....

GJ