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Charging Lithium Batteries


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My guess is your freedom pro is set too high for input amperage. However, it should max out at around 14 amps AC.  You might have something else plugged in that is putting it over the limit. 

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I am sure that somebody with one of your inverter/ chargers will chime in, but you can adjust the charge rate to the batteries, default is 150 amps I believe, if yours is the 3000 model.. That probably is way too high a setting for your generator to handle. Go into the configuration settings and change it to 50 amps, see if the generator will stay online. If so, increase the setting higher until it won’t stay on. Go back say 10 amps and call it good.

63065016-A6CC-44E6-9FDE-6F5AC7D7E5B7.thumb.png.ce20a55f87b8254ece3e6bacf4f31c64.png

This is off the top of my head. Be aware that turning down the charge rate for use with your too small generator also affects when you are hooked up to shore power. If yours is the Harbor Freight Predator, it only puts out 1600 watts continuous, about 13 amps, that is very marginal for charging a large lithium battery bank.

John Davies

Spokane WA

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Yeah I found I was tripping the home AC circuit I plug the trailer into periodically sometimes when it's doing bulk charging, so I dropped the "AC input breaker" setting from 30A to 14A (It's a 15 amp circuit but also has some commonly used LED bulbed lights on it so one amp to spare seems to be giving me enough buffer). Oliver has an article that mentions that we may want to adjust this setting when not plugging into 30 amp circuits including the case of using some generators. I found this easiest to change via the Xantrex app on my phone btw.

From reading John's comment, I'm surmising that the relevant setting may have a different name depending on whether you have one of the the Freedom XC Pro 2000/3000 inverter models or an older model.

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Jim and  Yanna, Woodinville WA

2004 Ford E250 camper conversion

Oliver Elite II hull #709

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I was speaking to Larry at Lifeblue Lithium and he mentioned something about Progressive Dynamics having an inexpensive "Pendant" that allows us to manually increase the stock 2,000 Watt PD converter output to periodically increase the voltage for topping off lithium batteries. 

Does anyone have any insights as what this is and how it works?

Thanks, 

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We have the "charge wizard" pendant on our pd charger converter,  but we don't have lithium. 

There is a way to manually adjust to any of the preprogrammed modes, with the pendant. It will revert to normal when it senses battery is at appropriate level. We've only used it a few times, to test it. I don't know how it would work, with lithium. In all likelihood,  much the same. Not as sophisticated as being able to change settings from your phone, or a screen.

Since you have a four year old trailer, your pd charger converter (like ours)  will likely have to be upgraded with a board,  or swapped out, if you decide to swap up to lithium. Add that into your estimates. 

When/if we swap up in the trailer, we'll likely go to victron gear, like we did on the boat, and several others have done here. You may want to look at the pros and cons, as well. Going all victron gives us a good communication stream, and information.  Solid stuff, imo.

There's a lot to think about, in making the change. 

I'd also take a long look at Battleborn, and possibly a few other brands,  vs Lifeblue, if it were me. 

 

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15 hours ago, John E Davies said:

I am sure that somebody with one of your inverter/ chargers will chime in, but you can adjust the charge rate to the batteries, default is 150 amps I believe, if yours is the 3000 model.. That probably is way too high a setting for your generator to handle. Go into the configuration settings and change it to 50 amps, see if the generator will stay online. If so, increase the setting higher until it won’t stay on. Go back say 10 amps and call it good.

63065016-A6CC-44E6-9FDE-6F5AC7D7E5B7.thumb.png.ce20a55f87b8254ece3e6bacf4f31c64.png

This is off the top of my head. Be aware that turning down the charge rate for use with your too small generator also affects when you are hooked up to shore power. If yours is the Harbor Freight Predator, it only puts out 1600 watts continuous, about 13 amps, that is very marginal for charging a large lithium battery bank.

John Davies

Spokane WA

I suspect John has hit the nail on the head with the Charger current being set at 150 amps when the 1600 W the generator is running at is only able to support 133.33 amps (at 12V) theoretically.  Given losses, I would predict that you can still use the 1600 Watts at 120V (13 amps) to charge your batteries at 100 amps (12V) without issue. 

I charge my pair of 200ah lithiums all the time at 40 amps (12V) because I have the time and I can - that fills my batteries at about 10% per hour.  I'm not positive what John means by stating 13 amps (at 120 Volts) is marginal for lithium - I guess it's marginal if you only have a limited amount of time and 100 amps per hour is going to take too long - otherwise from my understanding you can charge lithium as slowly as you want - in fact, it's better for the ions / longevity if you charge at a lower amperage.

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There may be two ways to skin the cat - it appears  that setting the "input breaker" amperage (110 AC) is a valid route for the generator scenario based on the article from Oliver that I linked in which they specifically mention generators as one use case for changing the setting.

 

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Jim and  Yanna, Woodinville WA

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Oliver Elite II hull #709

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Many lithium battery manufacturers advertise  "drop in" replacement.  This is ok, as they "fit," but your oem equipment may not be able to fully charge them. 

That's ok, too, but you need to know what you are working with, in solar and on-board chargers. And wiring,  as well. 

Drop-in is rarely drop it in, and go on, from what I have read and seen.

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On 9/15/2021 at 1:22 PM, SeaDawg said:

We have the "charge wizard" pendant on our pd charger converter,  but we don't have lithium. 

There is a way to manually adjust to any of the preprogrammed modes, with the pendant. It will revert to normal when it senses battery is at appropriate level. We've only used it a few times, to test it. I don't know how it would work, with lithium. In all likelihood,  much the same. Not as sophisticated as being able to change settings from your phone, or a screen.

Since you have a four year old trailer, your pd charger converter (like ours)  will likely have to be upgraded with a board,  or swapped out, if you decide to swap up to lithium. Add that into your estimates. 

When/if we swap up in the trailer, we'll likely go to victron gear, like we did on the boat, and several others have done here. You may want to look at the pros and cons, as well. Going all victron gives us a good communication stream, and information.  Solid stuff, imo.

There's a lot to think about, in making the change. 

I'd also take a long look at Battleborn, and possibly a few other brands,  vs Lifeblue, if it were me. 

 

I can't look as I'm 4,000 miles from my Ollie, but one of the technical staff indicated that there is a jumper that can be removed from the Converter and dropped down a hole to switch the Converter from AGM/L.A. to Lithium.  The black jumper has two pins that are in the top and middle slot.  It is in the AGM and Lead Acid position.

image.png.24b873424e1bd4ca90d16113032ba621.png

 

By pulling out the jumper, and putting it into the center and bottom hole, you have set the PD 4000 series Converter to the Lithium mode.  

image.png.17f5d0a7a9b76bab4e9a2307b8dbea57.png

Doing so will still put you about .2V short of the desired equalization voltage for many such batteries. 

If this is not what you are speaking of, I would SURE appreciate it if you could post a picture and maybe the ordering info for the Pendent.   Thank you,

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I'd ask the folks at Progressive Dynamics Customer Service 269-781-4242. I have one of the Remote Pendants for the Progressive Dynamics Inteli-Power PD9200 Series Converters. It's yours for the asking if you find it will work for you.

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Steve, Tali and the dogs: Reacher, Lucy and Rocky plus our beloved Storm and Maggie (both waiting at the Rainbow Bridge)

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2 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

I'd ask the folks at Progressive Dynamics Customer Service 269-781-4242. I have one of the Remote Pendants for the Progressive Dynamics Inteli-Power PD9200 Series Converters. It's yours for the asking if you find it will work for you.

I'll give them a call to see if the PD 9200 series will work with my PD 4000 series.  Thanks.

GJ

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The charge wizard pendant is a very small ( about the size of a half dollar coin)  mountable display on a cord that attaches to the charger converter. Ours is mounted with velcro. It blinks in various patterns to let you know which of the four stage the charger is working in--boost, absorption, float, or their 14.4 version of equalize/anti sulfate. These are programmed to step through automatically as the battery reaches the next state of charge.

By use of a small button, you can manually stay in one of the four modes for a period of time. I thought it required buying a new board, not just moving a jumper.

Yes, moving that jumper is what I was discussing earlier, or upgrading the charger.

If we decide to go with lithium, we may  go with Victron kit. We used Victron on the 600 watts of solar on the boat, it works well, offers easier communication and settings changes , we can monitor, and control through the phone,  AND we'd simply be better off with one manufacturer's kit to work with in both places.

Let us know what PD says about the pendant. I'm curious, too, if it works the same way with the lithium setting. 

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