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Updated. It’s fixed. If the toilet’s a-rockin’…..🎶


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Updated. See later comment below.  Toilet rocking, so I’m about the undertake the repair of the broken toilet flange as discussed in a previous thread (below link).  Before I get started on the project and remove the toilet to get to the flange, a quick question for those who have done this.  For the screws that attach the flange to the Ollie bathroom floor as shown in the photo, what do those screws engage into?   Just threaded into the fiberglass?  Or are there wooden blocks or metal nuts bonded on the underside of the fiberglass floor that the screws engage into?   Just want to see if there’s an opportunity to improve the mounting and use a higher quality flange.   This is one area Oliver could do a bit better on.  A plastic flange on an RV application is not the greatest.   I’ve used the Danco Hydroseat flange on my home toilets with great success and might try it on the Ollie if it will fit under the toilet properly.  
Thanks in advance.  

 

 

 

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I believe that Mossemi has been down the same road but I do not remember exactly what he did or how he did it.

You might want to send him a PM or, hopefully, he will see this and reply here.

Good luck!

Bill

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39 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

I believe that Mossemi has been down the same road but I do not remember exactly what he did or how he did it.

You might want to send him a PM or, hopefully, he will see this and reply here.

Good luck!

Bill

Thanks!  I’ll send him a PM 

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Hi FrankC,

I just semi-finished this project.  Hull 996's flange should have lasted longer than 2 months, IMO.  The 4 screws are difficult to loosen but they are large diameter, coarse thread screws that merely tap into the fiberglass, as far as I could tell.  My problem was attempting to remove the flange.  There is, for lack of a better description, a tailpiece molded onto the flange and I had a difficult time loosening/twisting so I could remove and replace.  Well, I was able to twist it somewhat and pull up on the flange to remove it part way and I was afraid to completely pull it out as I don't know if I can get a replacement flange to fit back in the hole.  Sounds weird but I think it's wedged in so tight that it's pulling the top of the tank up and down as the partially removed flange just bounces up and down like it's on a spring.  My problem was that one of those locking bolt cutouts was broken and I just rotated the flange around to use the other 2 cutouts, an idea that came from a fellow Olivarian (:)) at the Bluebonnet rally.  Thanks, Phil 🙂.  I don't have a replacement flange at this time and I really need to know I'll be able to get the flange's tailpiece back into the black tank, since it's such a tight fit.  I plan on drawing on the knowledge from the folks at the upcoming rally.  I did call OTT and was told about the tight fit, but I still need to know what going on down there where I can't see anything, not lol.  I didn't get the flange to go back in because of the springiness and my remedy for that was to sit on the toilet to compress everything and tighten the bolts down.  Everything seems good and tight for 2 weeks now.  Best of luck!

John

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11 minutes ago, johnwen said:

Hi FrankC,

I just semi-finished this project.  Hull 996's flange should have lasted longer than 2 months, IMO.  The 4 screws are difficult to loosen but they are large diameter, coarse thread screws that merely tap into the fiberglass, as far as I could tell.  My problem was attempting to remove the flange.  There is, for lack of a better description, a tailpiece molded onto the flange and I had a difficult time loosening/twisting so I could remove and replace.  Well, I was able to twist it somewhat and pull up on the flange to remove it part way and I was afraid to completely pull it out as I don't know if I can get a replacement flange to fit back in the hole.  Sounds weird but I think it's wedged in so tight that it's pulling the top of the tank up and down as the partially removed flange just bounces up and down like it's on a spring.  My problem was that one of those locking bolt cutouts was broken and I just rotated the flange around to use the other 2 cutouts, an idea that came from a fellow Olivarian (:)) at the Bluebonnet rally.  Thanks, Phil 🙂.  I don't have a replacement flange at this time and I really need to know I'll be able to get the flange's tailpiece back into the black tank, since it's such a tight fit.  I plan on drawing on the knowledge from the folks at the upcoming rally.  I did call OTT and was told about the tight fit, but I still need to know what going on down there where I can't see anything, not lol.  I didn't get the flange to go back in because of the springiness and my remedy for that was to sit on the toilet to compress everything and tighten the bolts down.  Everything seems good and tight for 2 weeks now.  Best of luck!

John

Thanks for the info John.  I’ll see how it goes.  Should be starting on this project in the next few days.  I do want to replace the flange with the type with the metal ring to hold to toilet bolts.  Like this type. 

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I wish I had paid attention to your link, Frank, as I garnered a lot of info about the tank construction.  That link is 2 years old and I'm surprised we're still having this issue.  I saw a reference to a metal covering on the flange and will bring this up as a topic for discussion, if permitted, at the rally.  

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That looks like a very good option if it fits.  The bolt pattern looks a little different but, just maybe, it'll work.  Please follow up.  Thanks, Frank 🙂

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This was the biggest PITA that I have had with my Oliver.  The 4 screws are 1" long and maybe #12.  I did drill new holes with a 13/64” bit.  The existing screws were sealed with a white product that was probably silicone.  If you have replaced a closet flange at home, just forget what you know, because this is a new experience.  My advice is to try a stainless steel, 2 piece repair ring before removing the original closet flange.

Now that I have said that, feel free to do what you want, but I’ll tell you about my mistakes and successes.

I will say the I did use an ABS flange with a stainless ring by Sioux Chief from Lowes, but it was the 3rd one I tried.  The first 2 were ordered from Home Depot as well as the 2 foot section of 3" ABS pipe.  It took HD about 6 weeks to complete that order.  Make sure the closet flange will fit inside a 3" schedule 40 ABS or PVC pipe.

I removed the existing flange by removing the 4 screws and trying to pull the flange up.  That didn’t work because of the rubber bushing in the top of the black tank and the flexibility of the tank itself.  I could pull the flange up about an inch, so I put a couple of wooden wedges under the flange and then used a flat pry bar on a piece of 1x4" and worked a couple short pieces of 2x4" under the lip of the flange.  I was then able to use the pry bar again and when the flange was about 3" up from the floor, it would stay in that position and I was able to remove the wood and pull it out.  The rubber bushing came out of the hole in top of the tank and came off of the pipe because it wouldn’t fit through the floor hole and ended up on top of the tank.  
I noticed that tank hole was about 3/8" closer to the street side wall than the floor hole, they were misaligned.  I didn’t think it would be a problem because Oliver was able to install it.  Oh Boy, was that a mistake.  After receiving the parts from HD, I cut a 4" long piece of the ABS pipe, beveled the bottom end to match the original and glued it to the closet flange.  Then I put the rubber gasket in place on the top of the tank then inserted the flange through the floor and into the rubber gasket and pushed it into the gasket and got to within 2" of the floor where it stopped.  So I removed it and applied some silicone grease to the shank and tried it again.  This attempt got to within an inch of the floor, so I placed a short 2x6 on top of the flange and tried standing on it and it stopped about 3/8" from bottoming out.  Throughout all of this effort I’m thinking the flex of the tank is preventing me from it seating completely.  And then the stainless ring of the flange popped out of its slot.  So I started over with the extra flange I bought and it would not fit flush either and then I bumped my head and the light bulb went on, the flange was bottoming out on the lip of the hole.  Upon further examination of the original flange, I realized the that the 1/4" tall bottom ring had a different profile than the original and that was catching on the edge of the floor hole.  I found that the Sioux Chief flange had a matching profile by looking at Pinterest pictures and confirmed that through their website.  And the new flange had the same result, so I got my jigsaw out and enlarged the hole and it still wouldn’t bottom out.  So I made a cup of coffee and tried to think of a way to push the top of the tank up from the inside.  The picture below shows the piece of scrap rod that I bent into a J shape and reached into the tank through the Flange and pulled up on the tank while standing on the flange.  I moved around the hole at 3, 6, 9 and 12 o’clock and the tank top moved up at each position and the flange was resting on the floor when I finished.  I screwed the flange down and reset the toilet.  Finally success!

And by now you have figured out that I have the ability to make a long story, longer.  And I am persistent to the point of stupidity!  And I just had a new thought, has the tank moved from its original position and that caused the misalignment?

Mossey

D62F17D3-6386-4B26-BCDA-EDC4B4215E3A.thumb.jpeg.b9a0ae19177f999adbfcb259f086609e.jpeg
 

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Mike and Krunch   Lutz, FL   LEII #193 “the dog house”

 

 

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58 minutes ago, mossemi said:

And by now you have figured out that I have the ability to make a long story, longer.  And I am persistent to the point of stupidity!  And I just had a new thought, has the tank moved from its original position and that caused the misalignment?

Mossemi, thanks for your candor and help.  Are you by chance coming to the rally?

John

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9 hours ago, mossemi said:

This was the biggest PITA that I have had with my Oliver.  The 4 screws are 1" long and maybe #12.  I did drill new holes with a 13/64” bit.  The existing screws were sealed with a white product that was probably silicone.  If you have replaced a closet flange at home, just forget what you know, because this is a new experience.  My advice is to try a stainless steel, 2 piece repair ring before removing the original closet flange.

Now that I have said that, feel free to do what you want, but I’ll tell you about my mistakes and successes.

I will say the I did use an ABS flange with a stainless ring by Sioux Chief from Lowes, but it was the 3rd one I tried.  The first 2 were ordered from Home Depot as well as the 2 foot section of 3" ABS pipe.  It took HD about 6 weeks to complete that order.  Make sure the closet flange will fit inside a 3" schedule 40 ABS or PVC pipe.

I removed the existing flange by removing the 4 screws and trying to pull the flange up.  That didn’t work because of the rubber bushing in the top of the black tank and the flexibility of the tank itself.  I could pull the flange up about an inch, so I put a couple of wooden wedges under the flange and then used a flat pry bar on a piece of 1x4" and worked a couple short pieces of 2x4" under the lip of the flange.  I was then able to use the pry bar again and when the flange was about 3" up from the floor, it would stay in that position and I was able to remove the wood and pull it out.  The rubber bushing came out of the hole in top of the tank and came off of the pipe because it wouldn’t fit through the floor hole and ended up on top of the tank.  
I noticed that tank hole was about 3/8" closer to the street side wall than the floor hole, they were misaligned.  I didn’t think it would be a problem because Oliver was able to install it.  Oh Boy, was that a mistake.  After receiving the parts from HD, I cut a 4" long piece of the ABS pipe, beveled the bottom end to match the original and glued it to the closet flange.  Then I put the rubber gasket in place on the top of the tank then inserted the flange through the floor and into the rubber gasket and pushed it into the gasket and got to within 2" of the floor where it stopped.  So I removed it and applied some silicone grease to the shank and tried it again.  This attempt got to within an inch of the floor, so I placed a short 2x6 on top of the flange and tried standing on it and it stopped about 3/8" from bottoming out.  Throughout all of this effort I’m thinking the flex of the tank is preventing me from it seating completely.  And then the stainless ring of the flange popped out of its slot.  So I started over with the extra flange I bought and it would not fit flush either and then I bumped my head and the light bulb went on, the flange was bottoming out on the lip of the hole.  Upon further examination of the original flange, I realized the that the 1/4" tall bottom ring had a different profile than the original and that was catching on the edge of the floor hole.  I found that the Sioux Chief flange had a matching profile by looking at Pinterest pictures and confirmed that through their website.  And the new flange had the same result, so I got my jigsaw out and enlarged the hole and it still wouldn’t bottom out.  So I made a cup of coffee and tried to think of a way to push the top of the tank up from the inside.  The picture below shows the piece of scrap rod that I bent into a J shape and reached into the tank through the Flange and pulled up on the tank while standing on the flange.  I moved around the hole at 3, 6, 9 and 12 o’clock and the tank top moved up at each position and the flange was resting on the floor when I finished.  I screwed the flange down and reset the toilet.  Finally success!

And by now you have figured out that I have the ability to make a long story, longer.  And I am persistent to the point of stupidity!  And I just had a new thought, has the tank moved from its original position and that caused the misalignment?

Mossey

D62F17D3-6386-4B26-BCDA-EDC4B4215E3A.thumb.jpeg.b9a0ae19177f999adbfcb259f086609e.jpeg
 

248E87F5-AADF-4693-A893-787AF53E045B.thumb.jpeg.6b02b9ad00e027bf3697a6949f2a84f2.jpeg

Wow! Thank you so much for the details of your ordeal!  Based on your experience I’ll try the repair ring option first instead of removing the old flange.   And does Oliver use a wax ring between the toilet and flange as is standard practice? 

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45 minutes ago, FrankC said:

And does Oliver use a wax ring between the toilet and flange as is standard practice? 

No wax ring involved, but there is a light weight rubber donut that fits on the toilet in the same place a wax ring would fit.  It has the look and feel of a car door gasket, but it is shaped just like a wax ring and it is solid.  The gasket that fits in the tank hole is a very dense rubber compound.

Good luck and just ask if any questions come up!

Mossey

Mike and Krunch   Lutz, FL   LEII #193 “the dog house”

 

 

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9 hours ago, johnwen said:

Mossemi, thanks for your candor and help.  Are you by chance coming to the rally?

John

You are welcome!  Yes, we will be at the rally.  Site D7, right by the dog park.

Mossey

Mike and Krunch   Lutz, FL   LEII #193 “the dog house”

 

 

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Removed the toilet and the first photo shows what the original all plastic flange looked like, cracked and broken in multiple places, including the countersunk screw holes in the plastic flange.  Might have been over-stressed when initially built.

I removed the old flange and replaced it completely with an upgraded flange with a metal mounting ring, shown in the second photo.  Had to drill new mounting holes in the floor, and because of the limited distance between the floor level and the grommet on the top of the black tank, it took some cutting of the flange collar on the underside of the flange to shorten it up a bit, and then solvent welding to adapt to a short piece of 3” PVC pipe that gets forced into the rubber grommet on the top of the black tank.  The purple streaks are a bit of dried residue from the primer used on the PVC for solvent welding.  Hidden by the toilet once it’s back in place.  

This fix took care of the rocking toilet and also the small leak that would happen only when the toilet was flushed.  Water was seeping between the toilet/seal/flange/floor because of the broken/cracked flange.  The red arrow in the first photo shows the crack in the flange collar itself.  That crack was letting water leak onto the top of the black tank and then down between the hulls, and then dripping out the forward street side weep hole scupper under the hull.  The drip only happened when the toilet was flushed.

It was good to see that the floor itself under the toilet is a very thick built up panel with fiberglass over a thick core material, so the flange screws thread directly into that very well.

This is a pain in the butt project that I’ll bet eventually all Ollie owners will have to do.  Your toilet flange is either already broken and you don’t know it yet, or it’s about to break.   

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  • The title was changed to Updated. It’s fixed. If the toilet’s a-rockin’…..🎶

Curious,

Was there no black replacement flange available that would make it an easier replacement job?

Last November we had our toilet pulled due to leaks like you mentioned.  When service finished the toilet was no longer set parallel to the walls and had a slight twist.  I've been thinking about removing it to see what is happening.

Your pictures look like they might be rotated 90Deg from each other....so it's hard to reference how the two flanges aligned for the bolts that hold the toilet down.

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56 minutes ago, Galway Girl said:

Curious,

Was there no black replacement flange available that would make it an easier replacement job?

Last November we had our toilet pulled due to leaks like you mentioned.  When service finished the toilet was no longer set parallel to the walls and had a slight twist.  I've been thinking about removing it to see what is happening.

Your pictures look like they might be rotated 90Deg from each other....so it's hard to reference how the two flanges aligned for the bolts that hold the toilet down.

The size/type of black ABS plastic flange used originally by Oliver is not readily available at hardware stores, and I wanted the stronger metal mounting ring to hold the toilet bolts to keep this from happening again.  Flanges with the metal ring that I found at most hardware stores tend to be a larger collar size underneath that is dual purpose to fit either INSIDE a 4” pipe or OUTSIDE a 3” pipe.  And I corrected the photo orientation just now.  And the flanges and pipe come in either white PVC or black ABS, either is fine for drain/sewer connections like this, just don’t mix them because different solvents are used to weld each type.   

And you mentioned that your toilet isn’t aligned correctly now.  The bolts that hold the toilet can be moved in the flange to allow the toilet to be aligned correctly, unless Oliver mounted the flange itself way out of alignment when they repaired yours.  

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Frank,

As I understand it, the 3" diameter pvc pipe just shoves down through a rubber grommet that OTT affixed to the top of the black tank.  Did you have any problems doing that?  This looks like a fix I'll be doing in the near future.  I like it 🙂 I'll try to find you at the rally and see if you still like your fix.  I really want to only have to fix that flange 1 more time.  Does the foam seal on the bottom of the toilet appear to seat properly on the new metal flange?  The original plastic flange has a flat top and your flange looks to have a convex shape to its top.

Thanks a bunch,

John

Oliver II #996 "Bessie", 2019 Silverado LTZ 5.3, Veterans

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6 minutes ago, johnwen said:

Frank,

As I understand it, the 3" diameter pvc pipe just shoves down through a rubber grommet that OTT affixed to the top of the black tank.  Did you have any problems doing that?  This looks like a fix I'll be doing in the near future.  I like it 🙂 I'll try to find you at the rally and see if you still like your fix.  I really want to only have to fix that flange 1 more time.  Does the foam seal on the bottom of the toilet appear to seat properly on the new metal flange?  The original plastic flange has a flat top and your flange looks to have a convex shape to its top.

Thanks a bunch,

John

I used a file and chamfered the leading outer edge of the 3” pipe and then put some dishwashing liquid soap on the pipe and grommet and it went in with a little effort.   The seal rests on the flat plastic ring that’s to the inside of the stainless ring and it seems to seal well.   Unfortunately we won’t be at the rally this year though.  

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5 hours ago, Galway Girl said:

Your pictures look like they might be rotated 90Deg from each other....so it's hard to reference how the two flanges aligned for the bolts that hold the toilet down.

The pictures are oriented the same, so I added some arrows to them to try answering your question.  The parallel lines in the originals are the elevated portion of the floor that the toilet sits on and they are represented by the red arrows.  The blue arrows should be perpendicular to the red arrows and crossing the thinner portion of the mounting bolt slot.  I would loosen both bolts and see if you can straighten the toilet to your liking.  
 

Mossey

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Mike and Krunch   Lutz, FL   LEII #193 “the dog house”

 

 

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While everyone's corrective actions and associated comments have only validated my procrastination for tackling this problem, all the information provided thus far is most valuable.

In looking at everyone's broken flange pictures, I have to wonder: Had Oliver clocked the flanges such that the Johnny Bolts would be positioned closer to the end of the slots, instead of midway nearer the insertion reliefs, would these flanges be less prone to failure?  I'm not suggesting this would solve the inherent problem, but it seems to me that the plastic flange might be stronger and less prone to flex with the bolts positioned near the end adjacent to the flange retaining screws.

I'm coming up next and have a couple of stainless-steel ring solutions on deck. Thanks for all the tips.

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10 hours ago, FrankC said:

This is a pain in the butt project that I’ll bet eventually all Ollie owners will have to do.  Your toilet flange is either already broken and you don’t know it yet, or it’s about to break.   

I am very glad that you fixed your problem, but that statement is a little too all inclusive, n’est-ce pas? Since we ain’t got no stinkin’ toilet flange, all us Natures Head owners are free to go watch TV….

John Davies

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7 hours ago, John E Davies said:

I am very glad that you fixed your problem, but that statement is a little too all inclusive, n’est-ce pas? Since we ain’t got no stinkin’ toilet flange, all us Natures Head owners are free to go watch TV….

John Davies

Spokane WA

You are correct John.  

“Flanges?  We don’t need no stinking flanges!” 😂

Definitely not applicable to the composting toilet.  That has its own unique issues to deal with. 

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Do I sense some potty humor "leaking" in here?😇

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