Boondocking Generator Questions

[BBL]

12 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

Was the Truma rep specifically asked about running the Truma Aventa Eco with a generator with only a 1600 continuous watt rating (i.e., enough to meet regular electrical demand, as the Truma Aventa Eco draws 10.8A on high, which equates to 1296 watts at 120V)?

 

Well, I didn't ask him about a 1600 watt generator. Why would I?  I have a 2500 watt generator.  It seems to me, if the spec says that is what is calls for to run, then your 1600 watt continuous (provided those specs are accurate) will do the job.

BL

[BBL]

10 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

Yes they do. I called the factory yesterday to see how the batteries are charged on the new trailers. They said it was the same set up as it always was. This is where your 120V breakers and 12 V fuses are. 

Apparently, the Xantrex inverter/charger comes into play also as it functions as a combination of an inverter, battery charger and transfer switch in one complete system. When AC power is available, the inverter/charger recharges the house batteries. It also allows any surplus AC power to pass through and power downstream AC loads, such as a television set or microwave oven. When AC power is disconnected, the unit inverts DC battery power into AC electricity.

Trailers that have a front generator hook up port in addition to the standard side port also have a transfer switch to determine whether the outside power is coming from a generator or from shore. The default is generator. 
 

It would take some testing to see how the two transfer switches act when used together. 

Yes, the Xantrex Pro is THE charger for the Lithium set up. Also, it is a 150 amp charger versus the 65 amp charger that PD provides with the standard charger. From what I was told, the PD is removed on models that have the Xantrex. Not sure if that is the case but it does make sense.

Xantrex Pro 3000 Video

The new Victron MPPT Solar has a 50 amp capability, still using the 2 x 200 watt panels.

Brian

[Rivernerd]

29 minutes ago, Brian and Brandelyne Lewis said:

Well, I didn't ask him about a 1600 watt generator. Why would I?  I have a 2500 watt generator.  It seems to me, if the spec says that is what is calls for to run, then your 1600 watt continuous (provided those specs are accurate) will do the job.

Every air conditioner with which I am familiar requires quite a bit more power at startup than when just running.  Does the Truma Aventa Eco draw the same amount of power all of the time (10.8A on high), i.e., no additional power is required at compressor startup?  It seems to me that to reliably answer the Original Poster's question (whether he can run the Truma Aventa Eco with his Yamaha 2000/1600 watt generator), that is a critical fact we still don't know.

bbrault, I, for one, am still interested to learn whether Oliver tested the Truma Aventa Eco with only a generator, and if so, how many watts it requires at startup.

[Hokieman]

On 9/10/2022 at 1:10 AM, ScubaRx said:

I called the factory yesterday to see how the batteries are charged on the new trailers. They said it was the same set up as it always was.

A review of the online Standard Features manuals shows they switched from a PD4000 series to a PD9200 series converter/charger in 2020 models.  For trailers with solar options, they include a Xantrex PRO 2000 or 3000 depending on the option.   My 2021 EII has the Solar Basic option ( no longer available) with no inverter.   My converter/charger is a PD 9260C, which is a 60A charger.   It is a separate unit, the 12V fuses & 120V breakers are in a separate PD panel, not all-in-one like the older PD4000.  It is lithium capable with the purchase of a $20 plug-in pendant, which I have but rarely use.  Progressive Dynamics offers model  9160AVL, which is a 60A lithium charger, sells for around $300. 

[katanapilot]

In response to John Davies post about Honda quality -

Hard to find any product these days with quality as good as in the past.  Even Olivers.

OP was looking for a generator that would (a) fit in Elite I front basket and (b) power a Truma or Dometic A/C.  The Honda EU3200i will do both.  Didn't say it was a cheap solution or maybe not even the best solution - but it meets both requirements. Haven't seen anything else that does.

Edited September 11, 2022 by katanapilot
added text for clarification

[BBL]

3 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

Every air conditioner with which I am familiar requires quite a bit more power at startup than when just running.  Does the Truma Aventa Eco draw the same amount of power all of the time (10.8A on high), i.e., no additional power is required at compressor startup?  It seems to me that to reliably answer the Original Poster's question (whether he can run the Truma Aventa Eco with his Yamaha 2000/1600 watt generator), that is a critical fact we still don't know.

bbrault, I, for one, am still interested to learn whether Oliver tested the Truma Aventa Eco with only a generator, and if so, how many watts it requires at startup.

I have no idea what Oliver has tested, if anything. Here is what I do know. From page 16 of the Truma Aventa Eco Operations manual:

 

They clearly state, if you are running the unit with just a generator, it should be MIN 3,000W.

 

Brian

[Steph and Dud B]

22 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

When AC power is available, the inverter/charger recharges the house batteries. It also allows any surplus AC power to pass through and power downstream AC loads

Actually, the opposite on the Xantrex. Priority is given to the AC loads. Any excess supply after that goes to charging the batteries, up to the max amperage draw you specify in setting #28. Your batteries charge faster if you have minimal AC loads. As your AC loads go up, battery charging current goes down.

[Rivernerd]

On 9/10/2022 at 1:41 PM, Brian and Brandelyne Lewis said:

They clearly state, if you are running the unit with just a generator, it should be MIN 3,000W.

So, per Truma's specs, you can't run a Truma Aventa Eco with a 2000/1600 watt generator.  Since the Truma Aventa Eco requires only 1296 watts (10.8A at 120V) for regular running, I infer from the data that startup power consumption is higher, maybe as high as 20 or more amps.

bbrault, perhaps the Honda EU3200i is the only generator/inverter on the market that will provide sufficient wattage to start and run the Truma Aventa Eco, and still fit in the Legacy Elite front basket?

[BBL]

1 hour ago, Rivernerd said:

So, per Truma's specs, you can't run a Truma Aventa Eco with a 2000/1600 watt generator.  Since the Truma Aventa Eco requires only 1296 watts (10.8A at 120V) for regular running, I infer from the data that startup power consumption is higher, maybe as high as 20 or more amps.

bbrault, perhaps the Honda EU3200i is the only generator/inverter on the market that will provide sufficient wattage to start and run the Truma Aventa Eco, and still fit in the Legacy Elite front basket?

Agree but I don't think it is more than 20 amps since it is on a 20 amp breaker inside the trailer.

BL

[Chukarhunter]

It sounds to me like the Truma AC has a soft-start capacitor built in to the unit by design which is why they will not honor warranty if a capacitor is added external to the Truma.  I speculate that two uncoordinated capacitors in series may not always work well together.   A soft start capacitor provides instantaneous reactive power reserves and it is reactive power that creates the electromagnetic field which allows any conductor to transmit real power.  It is reactive power that supports voltage.  Large generators on the bulk grid are designed to vary the amount of reactive power they generate in real time (simultaneous with generating real power or watts) to support grid voltage.  Small generators like the Honda are rated at unity power factor and are not designed to inject or boost reactive power when faced with inductive loads like a sudden AC compressor load.  Hence the need for a soft-start capacitor which minimizes voltage sag for the fraction of a second when the compressor starts.

From the guidance out of Truma mentioned above, I expect that they have designed the unit with an integrated soft start capacitor that mitigates voltage sag on startup.  (Just like the external soft-start capacitor that Oliver installed in my 2020 LE II does).  I am reasonably confident that the Honda EU2200i, or any similar nominal 2,000 watt generator will start and run the Truma, or I don't think OTT wouldn't have made the switch.

[bbrault]

I want to thank everyone for your contribution. 
Sales confirmed that a Honda 2200i would be able to operate the new Truma AC however, not a 1600W/2000 peak generator. 
Sales hinted that the 2000W inverter will probably won’t work on the Truma AC. 
That’s a real bummer because the 3000W isn’t available on the Legacy I. I was hoping to be able to run it for 45-60 minutes, enough to cool it down and cut the humidity without using the generator. 
So this is disappointing. 

[Steph and Dud B]

This thread has been informative. We were considering upgrading to a Truma A/C if/when Oliver offered them. However, our Dometic A/C runs just fine on our old Honda eu2000i generator. It would have been expensive enough to buy the Truma. Needing to spend another $1200 on a slightly bigger generator, too, is a deal breaker.

[bhncb]

3 hours ago, bbrault said:

Sales hinted that the 2000W inverter will probably won’t work on the Truma AC. 

The 2000W inverter in the LEs only powers the GFCI outlet circuit. Refrig, water heater, and A/C require either shore or generator power.

[Rivernerd]

13 hours ago, bbrault said:

Sales confirmed that a Honda 2200i would be able to operate the new Truma AC however, not a 1600W/2000 peak generator. 

So, to summarize the important data gathered in this thread:  (1) You can upgrade to the more expensive, but quieter and more efficient, Truma air conditioner; (2) but, "you won't need" (and you can't install) a Micro Air Easy Start in it, therefore (3) you must also have at least a 2200 watt generator to run the "more efficient" Truma unit when boondocking.

Thus, bbrault, you cannot start and run the Truma Aventa Eco with your Yamaha 2000 watt generator that will fit in the front basket of an Elite.  But, for significant additional cost, you can run it with a Honda EU3200i, which will also fit in that front basket.

[bbrault]

With either the EU2200i or EU3200i, there doesn’t seem to be any room left to safely store a 5 gallon gas canister or even a 2.5 gallon?

 

[SeaDawg]

@bbrault, what is your planned tow vehicle? You've probably said, but I don't remember. 

We carry the genset in the truckbed. Ditto, the gas cans .

[bhncb]

According to the owner's manual, the LEI basket has a maximum weight carrying capacity of 55#. The dry weight of a EU3200i already exceeds this and a ready to run EU2200i, full of gas and oil, leaves no remaining capacity for any amount of additional fuel. Lack of room won't be your issue here.

[bbrault]

10 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

@bbrault, what is your planned tow vehicle? You've probably said, but I don't remember. 

We carry the genset in the truckbed. Ditto, the gas cans .

It’s a Highlander 2020. I don’t want to carry fuel inside. 

[bbrault]

10 hours ago, bhncb said:

According to the owner's manual, the LEI basket has a maximum weight carrying capacity of 55#. The dry weight of a EU3200i already exceeds this and a ready to run EU2200i, full of gas and oil, leaves no remaining capacity for any amount of additional fuel. Lack of room won't be your issue here.

I plan to have the Andersen Weight Distribution system so I am not concerned with a little extra weight. I have seen a drawing for the LE2 basket, not the LE. 
I don’t know the dimensions of the cut corners. If the EU2200i can fit snugly against the side of the basket, there should be room for a fuel can next to it. 

[Rivernerd]

13 hours ago, bbrault said:

With either the EU2200i or EU3200i, there doesn’t seem to be any room left to safely store a 5 gallon gas canister or even a 2.5 gallon?

Maybe this 2-gallon gas can would fit, along with the Honda EU2200i?

https://www.amazon.com/Sanycool-No-Gasoline-Container-Plastic/dp/B08HYNQ4YF/ref=asc_df_B08HYNQ4YF/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=459647904235&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16644264739175586450&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029558&hvtargid=pla-984610809534&psc=1

[John E Davies]

The problem with the plastic cans is that you cannot secure the openings and they inevitably leak or smell. I have two 5 gallon NATO cans, I carried them for years up front on the cargo tray, then I moved the tray to the back and carried them there.  Now I carry one inside the Land Cruiser, no worries, completely out of sight, no leaks, no odors. These cans can be dropped or run over and they don’t leak. Period.

https://www.amazon.com/Wavian-USA-JC0020RVS-Authentic-System/dp/B011AJF0PE

I don’t think your Highlander has NEARLY enough reserve capability for a 5000 pound LE1, but if you carefully watch your loading, travel with empty tanks, and don’t ever travel at high elevations it may be adequate. Until you get tired of its many limitations.

“For every 1,000 feet of elevation, a gasoline engine loses 4% of its power. Because of this, you should reduce your vehicle’s maximum towing capacity by 2% for every 1,000 feet of elevation. So, for a non-hybrid Toyota Highlander at 10,000 feet, the actual towing capacity should be 4,000 pounds instead of the rated 5,000 pounds.”

https://camper101.com/toyota-highlander-towing-capacity/

If you don’t want to change vehicles, a 3500 lb trailer would be an ideal match.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[bbrault]

59 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

I don’t think your Highlander has NEARLY enough reserve capability for a 5000 pound LE1, but if you carefully watch your loading, travel with empty tanks, and don’t ever travel at high elevations it may be adequate. Until you get tired of its many limitations.

“For every 1,000 feet of elevation, a gasoline engine loses 4% of its power. Because of this, you should reduce your vehicle’s maximum towing capacity by 2% for every 1,000 feet of elevation. So, for a non-hybrid Toyota Highlander at 10,000 feet, the actual towing capacity should be 4,000 pounds instead of the rated 5,000 pounds.”

https://camper101.com/toyota-highlander-towing-capacity/

If you don’t want to change vehicles, a 3500 lb trailer would be an ideal match.

John Davies

Spokane WA

I have the 2020 XLE V6 model it has a 5000 pound capacity. 
I would be a show stopper if it cannot tow a Legacy Elite 1.

The Dry weight is 3700 pounds. 
32 gallons of water adds 300 poundsI will probably end up around 4500 pounds. 

I better start another topic on this because, I don’t have the budget to get an Oliver and replace my 2020 Highlander. 

[John E Davies]

25 minutes ago, bbrault said:

 

The Dry weight is 3700 pounds. 
32 gallons of water adds 300 poundsI will probably end up around 4500 

Dry trailer weight includes no factory options at all. Those can easily add up to maybe 300 pounds…. Unfortunately, you mentioned boondocking, and that requires at least the solar option. And primitive camping normally means you tend to bring more stuff, not less, which you can get away with when you are in a developed campground.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[bbrault]

55 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

Dry trailer weight includes no factory options at all. Those can easily add up to maybe 300 pounds…. Unfortunately, you mentioned boondocking, and that requires at least the solar option. And primitive camping normally means you tend to bring more stuff, not less, which you can get away with when you are in a developed campground.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Indeed 

I will have the solar option and the hitch receiver for 2 bikes in the back.  
So you don’t think my Highlander is appropriate even with the weight distribution kit. I will install the best brake controller I can find and I have Michelin High Performance Cross Climate tires. 
I don’t mind if under some circumstances, I have to slow down but I don’t want to compromise on safety. 

[John E Davies]

Just now, bbrault said:

Indeed 

I will have the solar option and the hitch receiver for 2 bikes in the back.  
So you don’t think my Highlander is appropriate even with the weight distribution kit. I will install the best brake controller I can find and I have Michelin High Performance Cross Climate tires. 
I don’t mind if under some circumstances, I have to slow down but I don’t want to compromise on safety. 

Read this thread through to the end, then make your own decision.

https://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f12/i-am-really-new-to-the-rv-and-have-a-question-about-towing-e-pro-19fbs-with-highlander-229888.html

John Davies

Spokane WA