Tow Vehicles

[SeaDawg]

A few weeks ago at the international builders show, we found the perfect tow vehicle for those who wish to take their trailers where no man has gone before....

Also equipped to defend yourself and passengers from an impending zombie apocalypse, or alien invasion, all from the safety and comfort of the truck cabin...

 

 

 

????

Sherry

 

 

[Geronimo John]

I had my cup of morning coffee and was checking emails.  Opened the picture and laughed so hard I dumped the coffee.  OOPs.....

 

Oh wow, I have to add that truck to my Christmas list!  For an Ollie II, I wonder if it would require an Anderson?  LOL

 

Too perfect.

 

Thanks

 

GJ

[Rumline]

Yeah but how much payload capacity is left once you option in that turbolaser battery?  :-D

[RodgerS]

Anyone currently towing an Oliver with a Mercedes Sprinter van? The 2019 is supposed to have increased ratings.

 

"Need a little extra towing power, as well as a platform to build your own work vehicle? The Sprinter Cab Chassis delivers with a maximum towing capacity of 7,500 pounds. Whether you’re moving building materials or a smaller vehicle, the Sprinter Cab Chassis has the strength to get the job done. It’s also a capable hauler with a maximum payload of 6,400 pounds." https://www.mbtemecula.com/mercedes-benz-sprinter-towing-capacity/

 

[Overland]

I think @Cobra1169 was towing with a Sprinter. He recently sold his Ollie but you might send him a PM in case he's still keeping up with the forum.

[ScubaRx]

What’s the GCWR of the Sprinter van? While the towing capacity is just barely ok, I fear it might not leave you much (weight) room for cargo.

[RodgerS]

Don't have the numbers yet, but for a frame of reference as I understand it, many of the Sprinter van mfg builds one would buy from an RV dealer often retain a 5,000 pound tow capacity allowing one to tow, for example a small SUV or trailer, after being fully built out.

 

Historically, the problem has been a poor leftover payload capacity since they stuff them with so much stuff especially the $150k plus offerings.

 

A partially build out DIY van should "should" allow for the towing of an Oliver Elite or Elite II. Given a 3500 model, diesel, the weak link in the chain might be the standard tow hitch with a 5,000 lb rating. I'm still trying to find out if it is just an issue of an uprated tow hitch option.

 

When I get something on the GCWR I will let you know. The newer 2019s on my consideration list are not order-able until 4th quart 2018.

 

All of this considerations come together near the end of the year for me.

[topgun2]

RodgerS -

 

Let me see if I got this right - you are looking at a Tacoma, and a new Ford Ranger and a Sprinter Van and a ? As someone new to the RV world perhaps it would be best to stick with the tried and true. There are reasons that there are very few people towing with a Sprinter van. I'm not saying that these vehicles are bad nor am I saying that they just might not be the "perfect" choice for any particular individual. But, if it were me and I was new to the RV arena, I'd favor the plain vanilla over virtually anything else unless I had a darn good reason to deviate from the "norm". While it might not be very "exciting", there is a certain safety in numbers. Remember, virtually all things in this world (to include the RV world) are a compromise of sorts.

 

Bill

[Overland]

GCVR on the sprinters is 13,550 so no problem there. I think the biggest problem towing with a Sprinter would have to be the engine specs.

[Geronimo John]

John Davies and All:

 

We are approaching the half way point of my initial Ollie voyage, just hitting the 5,000 mile mark.

 

Just wanted to comment that you were right in stating that I would wish I had the 5.7 Toyota Sequoia motor vice my 4.7 (Unfortunately #1). I do very well in the flats running at the elevated western states posted speed limits. My chunk is the "High Speed" one (Unfortunately #2) and my Sequoia really likes to be run best fast to get the RPM's into the torque band. But when I hit the hills, the torque and HP deficit becomes an issue. Maybe changing the rear end to the towing one would help, but I think an upgrade to a 5.7 version would be a better approach.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Geronimo

[John E Davies]

John Davies and All:

We are approaching the half way point of my initial Ollie voyage, just hitting the 5,000 mile mark.

Just wanted to comment that you were right in stating that I would wish I had the 5.7 Toyota Sequoia motor vice my 4.7 (Unfortunately #1). I do very well in the flats running at the elevated western states posted speed limits. My chunk is the “High Speed” one (Unfortunately #2) and my Sequoia really likes to be run best fast to get the RPM’s into the torque band. But when I hit the hills, the torque and HP deficit becomes an issue. Maybe changing the rear end to the towing one would help, but I think an upgrade to a 5.7 version would be a better approach.

Any thoughts?

Geronimo

Frankly, the 4.7 V8 and the 4 speed tranny are inadequate for that much weight. They would be just acceptable towing an Elite. The difference between your current setup and the brute 5.7 engine (6 or 8 speed) will astound you. Do you know anybody with a Tundra, Sequoia or Land Cruiser 5.7 that will let you try it out with your Ollie?

 

You really need lots of torque for the grades, 400 ft lbs or better, and lots of gears so you don’t drop out of the peak power band. IMHO the 5.7 gets the job done, but in no way will it equal an equivalent powered diesel motor. With the Toyota 6 speed transmission, you tow in 4th (direct drive) with 5th and 6th reserved for empty cruising. The later LC gets the 8 speed trannie, you tow in 6th, with 7th and 8th as overdrives. Plus 1st gear is way WAY lower so you theoretically should get better acceleration from a stop and a much better crawl ratio if you have a  4wd. HOWEVER, they changed the axle ratios from 3.9 to 3.3, so the trucks struggle with heavier loads unless you change the ring and pinions. I wish I had the 8 speed with 4.88 gears, it would be pure magic for acceleration, towing and rock crawling. The Tundra does not get an 8 speed, I don’t know about the Sequoia, probably it does not.

 

You can futz around and regear your axle(s) - it will cost a minimum of $2500 for two axles - and maybe get a marginally better towing experience, but IMHO you need another truck. Just trade it in on something with a more more modern and powerful drivetrain. You really will be a lot happier and much safer. The 4.7 motor is a fine thing, it could be supercharged for double its current power, but it makes no sense to spend that kind of money on an old vehicle....

 

https://dustrunnersauto.com/2uzfe/

 

This might be educational: https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/new-8-speed-transmission.914500/page-3

 

Sell it and move on.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[RodgerS]

Hi Bill,

as to tried and true, that is why I'm in this forum, so I can find out what works well with either Oliver trailer.

I started from the other end...40 foot diesel motorhome, and 35 to 40 foot high-end fifth-wheel trailers, and have worked my way downward.

Wife never like the idea of big anything. After the 10 day RV rental vacation with my wife, that put the Kabosh on my buying a used 35 to 40 foot County Coach motorhome or a big 5th. Took awhile letting go of buying a Volvo semi-truck...should have bought the semi-truck and then let someone tell me to buy the trailer first.

 

My wife initially encouraged me to buy a high-end Class B van. That is not a totally dead ended idea...except I find it difficult to justify

spending upwards of 150K+ for a "van," but am gaining some comfort with the idea. I have seriously considered a DIY build,

since I have the skills and knowledge. The ability to pull a 5,000 plus pounds trailer would be a plus with a diesel 2019 sprinter.

Not tried and true, but something for me to think about.

 

My current vision of an Oliver came about when I realized I liked the Honda Ridgeline mid-sized truck. Shifting to a Z71 would allow

for a small Oliver or Airstream (maybe)...but I do like the look of an Oliver.

 

Having spent quite a bit of time demoing mid-size and 1/2 ton full-size, you could say I'm getting use to enjoying a truck of both sizes.

 

I'm pretty respectful of not deviating from the norm and the experience of others, otherwise I would not be here or have already purchased.

As to the reason why people are not towing with a diesel Sprinter, I have yet to read about those reasons and am unwilling to assume what those reasons are.

A lot of people like a built out van and tow nothing...not a bad idea and highly mobile. I could buy a van and a truck, a truck and a camper, just a van, or a van and porche suv, or a small motorhome and a truck...but I kind of like the Oliver idea and so does the wife.

 

I do know that commercial sprinter vans are towing non-camping trailers for various purposes.

 

Did I say I also considered a Volvo commercial truck for towing a heavy 5th?...so it is not like I don't take this without due consideration or totally

avoid the idea of a big truck. However, I do notice there are both pretty good tried and true rules to go by and a lot of truck baloney and bias (in other forums) to sort through. Bigger is better is one of the tried and true rules.

 

Am very sensitive to the torque/HP deficit issue mentioned by Geronimo. My advice is to trade in the truck and get what you were advised to by the forum members. Just move on. But I would not advise a Volvo Commercial class 8 semi-Truck...very cool. Am I right that Geronimo's truck is gas. Another tried and true rule for towing - diesel.

 

=============================

Hi Overland, the specs for the 2019 sprinter should be much better.

 

==========================

 

Ok, cheers to all.

[RodgerS]

Found a picture of a van pulling an Elite II on rvt.com. Don't know the make of the van or anything about the owner's experience.

[Try2Relax]

An old Oliver owner towed with a Nissan 3500 van, which was also DIY for camping, he has since sold the Oliver at the behest of his wife if I remember correctly.

 

The Porsche would be more than capable of handling an Oliver.

 

I've seen a photo of an Airstream Interstate towing an Oliver

[Geronimo John]

Thanks John D.

 

I agree.  I looked into the turbo/super charger mods and due to cost fell as you do that it is not worth the effort.

 

Basically prior to this summer, I updated all the maintenance items and replaced the rear bearings; so I have quite a bit of time and costs into it.  Body is still real good and interior is as well.  My 2018 Summer trip is completed with 14,000 miles on the TV and 8,000 on Ollie all in 13 weeks double crossing the USA chasing paragliding sites and competitions.  Overall the Sequoia 4.7L managed and ran perfectly with zero problems.

 

At this point on trade, it is only going to fetch $2 or so.  Outright sale a bit more I suspect.

 

My strategy is to run it another year (Summer 2019), or until I lose any major component.

 

Thanks again for all the inputs you have been spot on every time.

 

Geronimo John

[STEVEnBETTY]

I don't mean to discourage anyone from a 3/4 ton diesel anything, but we just finished a 5,000 mile western trip, crossed the Rockies twice, with elevations exceeding 11,500feet and anywhere from 5 to 15 percent grades.

 

My truck is a 2 wheel drive 2014 f150 with the 5 liter normally aspirated v8, it has the 3:31 rear end ratio with electric locking differential. There was never anytime when the truck struggled or I felt unsafe at all, uphill or down.

 

Our Ollie is an elite 11 and our loaded weight is 5,940, truck weight 5,980,for a gcvw of 11,920, rear axle weight 3,580.

 

When you spec a truck, payload and towing capacity are meaningless, the towing capacity on my truck is 8,000 lbs, but to get to that figure my truck weight would have to be completely empty, same thing with payload capacity, they just generalize because no one knows how much you weigh, options on the truck etc...

 

The important numbers on weight are the gcvw ( gross combined vehicle weight) and your axle weights.

[Geronimo John]

I purchased for my work four 2018 sprinter vans.  Love them.  But loaded with the turbo diesel they are certainly not "Over Powered".

 

Be aware that starting with model year 2019, MB has shifted production from Germany to Argentina.  My gut says that with any model year change, especially one involving a change of factory, and ESPECIALLY with a change of country..... delay a year or two to allow the bugs to be worked out.

 

The sage advice of going with what is proven is also a key consideration.... especially at $150K.  My three recommendations in no particular order would be:

 

Used Toyota Land Cruiser (Big wink to John D.)

 

Used Ford/Ram 250/2500 with diesel

 

Used Nissan Titan with Cummings Diesel

 

For those that would like a less expensive option, the Toyota Sequoia Gen II with the 5.7L would be my choice.  You can get into a very nice used one for about $15K.

 

Geronimo John

[Scribe with a Stylus]

On 8/30/2018 at 10:14 AM, Geronimo John said:

I purchased for my work four 2018 sprinter vans.  Love them.  But loaded with the turbo diesel they are certainly not "Over Powered".

 

Be aware that starting with model year 2019, MB has shifted production from Germany to Argentina.  My gut says that with any model year change, especially one involving a change of factory, and ESPECIALLY with a change of country..... delay a year or two to allow the bugs to be worked out.

 

The sage advice of going with what is proven is also a key consideration.... especially at $150K.  My three recommendations in no particular order would be:

 

Used Toyota Land Cruiser (Big wink to John D.)

 

Used Ford/Ram 250/2500 with diesel

 

Used Nissan Titan with Cummings Diesel

 

For those that would like a less expensive option, the Toyota Sequoia Gen II with the 5.7L would be my choice.  You can get into a very nice used one for about $15K.

 

Geronimo John

Geronimo John,

The production of the Sprinter (for the US market) was actually moved to South Carolina not to Argentina. However, you are correct about waiting a year or two. From what I have seen on the Sprinter Forums and at my dealer (I have a 2013 Sprinter built in Germany), they had huge software bugs in their Sprinter ordering software. Several options that I want - such as suspension seats for comfortable long distance driving still do not show up properly in the software. Did you order 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder Sprinters. One person that I know who tows with a Sprinter believes in the 6 cylinder 3500 dual wheel (4 wheels on rear axle) for towing a 5,000 pound trailer. He says the 4 wheels in back make the truck very stable. He also says that the 7 speed transmission is light years ahead of the 5 speed. He had a 4 cylinder 7 speed before his current Sprinter and said it was good so long as he avoided mountains. However, he feels that the 7 speed transmission with the 6 cylinder diesel and the 4 wheels in back is perfect for him. He lives in hurricane country and has to evacuate two or three times a year.

Again, my question for you was - Did you buy the 4 or 6 cylinder engine, the 5 or 7 speed transmission and the 2500 (4 wheel) or 3500 (6 wheel) model ? And have you updated any to the 6 cylinder, 7 speed 3500? and found any differences for towing?

Walk in His Peace,

Scribe With A Stylus

[Geronimo John]

@Scribe With A Stylus:

We had the 4 cylinder with the 7 speed trans.  Single rear wheels.  I think they were 15 PAX machines with about a 4+ foot equipment storage area in the rear.

These MB vans were slated to be driven by younger coaches, mostly hauling our athletes and their gear.  This setup would not be my recommendation for pulling an Oliver Elite II.  Just not enough power.

The sleeper recommendation for a TV on the cheap would be a Toyota Sequoia with the 5.7 L engine.  I still have our 2005 with the 4.7 and towed Ollie for my first 12,000 miles or so.  It needed more power.  

In 2019 I upgraded to a F-150 Lariat, 3.5 EcoBoost, FX4, Heavy Duty Tow Package.  Now that truck is a beast!  But the cost difference over a good used Sequoia 5.7 is not something that a lot of folks would want to entertain.

Good luck,

GJ