Oliver Reward Program

[Rivernerd]

2 minutes ago, MDuncan said:

For all prospects that contact us to see an owner's trailer, we now require the prospect to sign a Hold Harmless agreement that protects the owner when conducting a field visit. We have this signed by the prospect before setting up the field visit. This did not exist under the old program.

I would like to see a copy of that Hold Harmless Agreement. 

While requiring the Hold Harmless is a positive step for Oliver to take, it still does not outweigh the effect of the Indemnification paragraph in the Terms and Conditions. 

If Oliver removes that Indemnification language, and in its place promises to "fully defend and indemnify" any Oliver owner who shows a trailer to a prospective purchaser, then the new Rewards Program would be much more attractive.  As presently written, I believe it is a remarkably bad deal.

[MDuncan]

4 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

I would like to see a copy of that Hold Harmless Agreement. 

While requiring the Hold Harmless is a positive step for Oliver to take, it still does not outweigh the effect of the Indemnification paragraph in the Terms and Conditions. 

If Oliver removes that Indemnification language, and in its place promises to "fully defend and indemnify" any Oliver owner who shows a trailer to a prospective purchaser, then the new Rewards Program would be much more attractive.  As presently written, I believe it is a remarkably bad deal.

Thanks for your feedback. I will email you a copy.

[MDuncan]

10 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

I would like to see a copy of that Hold Harmless Agreement. 

While requiring the Hold Harmless is a positive step for Oliver to take, it still does not outweigh the effect of the Indemnification paragraph in the Terms and Conditions. 

If Oliver removes that Indemnification language, and in its place promises to "fully defend and indemnify" any Oliver owner who shows a trailer to a prospective purchaser, then the new Rewards Program would be much more attractive.  As presently written, I believe it is a remarkably bad deal.

I sent you a copy through our digital signing process.

[Katjo]

3 hours ago, Patriot said:

“There was a thread on FB wherefeedback was also lukewarm but it was quickly deleted as it seems any criticism of Oliver is not allowed there anymore”.   

TexasGuy, I agree with your observation. 

I have noticed the same with regard to the admin overreach on the Facebook Oliver page. Deleting posts or content because “admin” does not particularly like or agree with the content or a reply by members meh…not so much. Silencing, muzzling, or deleting posts is not a way to facilitate good discussion or honest feedback by owners. The FB Oliver admin would do well to really just lighten up just a bit. Hopefully they will do better and not remain heavy handed. I also think the administrators should be rotated out often. 
 

As for the rewards program and card, we have little interest at best. 
 

Patriot🇺🇸
 

 

I couldn’t agree more about the “muzzling” on that FB group! I know a few that have been kicked out for having legitimate problems and because it was “negative” they got kicked out! This is no way to moderate a FB group, people learn by both positive and negative comments. Nothing is always sunshine and roses! I’ve contemplated starting a new Oliver group where comments will not be muzzled and it will not have trigger happy fingers on the kick people out button if the persons comment/opinion doesn’t agree with theirs. 
I would name the group Oliver Travel Owners New Generation. 
Let me know if there is interest and I will open a new FB group. 

[Steve Morris]

13 minutes ago, Katjo said:

I know a few that have been kicked out

::Raises hand:: And just for asking the outcome of a delivery problem.

As for starting another group; there already is one. From what I understand, it was started by someone booted from the other group some time ago.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/250246709208286

[Katjo]

57 minutes ago, MDuncan said:

It's not a credit card. It is a re-loadable debit card. There is not a credit check or anything required to get the card other than just completing an activity. When you get the card and activate it, you can setup a PIN to get cash out of ATMs also.

So rewards are loaded into the reward debit card. To get the cash you need to go to a ATM to remove the reward cash less the ATM fee? 

[MDuncan]

15 hours ago, Mainiac said:

Cumbersome. Written by lawyers. Doesn't appear user friendly? They will charge for the use of the card? I showed 8 times one year, and sold 6. Other 2_bought used, so this program would have helped me. Haven't been asked to show since. Maybe me and my unit are getting too old?

It does look like the Rewards Program is going to drive a Branded Store. Maybe that will be a positive.

We understand for some people it is not about the money. For some it is. Some would not even participate since we didn't pay them for their time.

Yes it is more cumbersome than our previous program. But it is a lot to keep up with and manage properly.

In your example above, you would have been paid on

$30 for first field visit ($50 minus $20 service fee) - this also moves you to the Bronze Tier for completing first activity

Get sale on First Field Visit - $200 for sale = $250 YTD earnings - moves you to Silver Tier

2nd Field Visit - $50 plus $200 for sale = $500 YTD earning - moves you to Gold tier

3rd Field Visit - $75 plus $300 for sale = $875 YTD earnings

4th Field Visit - $75 plus $300 for sale = $1250 YTD earnings

5th Field Visit - $75 plus $300 for sale = $1625 YTD earnings - moves you to Platinum Tier

6th Field Visit - $100 plus $400 for sale = $2125 YTD earnings

Plus you would have gotten paid on the two field visits for showing your trailer depending on the tier you were in at those times.

You would receive the Platinum Tier gifts after the end of the year. The following year you would earn all year in the Platinum Tier. If you did 6 field visits and 6 people purchased, you would earn $3000. In our old program you would have only earned $1500. The Oliver Rewards Mastercard Debit card is just a reloadable gift card that can be used anywhere that accepts Mastercard or you can withdraw cash out ATMs.

As far as the store goes, yes we have ordered some of the products for it already.

Hope you are doing well! Hopefully I will see you again at the Maine Rally!

[MDuncan]

25 minutes ago, Katjo said:

So rewards are loaded into the reward debit card. To get the cash you need to go to a ATM to remove the reward cash less the ATM fee? 

Yes. The bank that issues the card does have a network of ATMs that don't charge fees. But most ATMs would charge a fee. That information is provided when you receive the card in the mail. The cards expire after 3 years and the card issuer will send you a new card automatically (to replace your expired card) if you are part of the program still at that time.

[Katjo]

1 minute ago, MDuncan said:

Yes. The bank that issues the card does have a network of ATMs that don't charge fees. But most ATMs would charge a fee. That information is provided when you receive the card in the mail. The cards expire after 3 years and the card issuer will send you a new card automatically if you are part of the program still at that time.

Thank you for the clarification. 

[Patriot]

2 hours ago, MDuncan said:

We understand for some people it is not about the money. For some it is. Some would not even participate since we didn't pay them for their time.

Yes it is more cumbersome than our previous program. But it is a lot to keep up with and manage properly.

In your example above, you would have been paid on

$30 for first field visit ($50 minus $20 service fee) - this also moves you to the Bronze Tier for completing first activity

Get sale on First Field Visit - $200 for sale = $250 YTD earnings - moves you to Silver Tier

2nd Field Visit - $50 plus $200 for sale = $500 YTD earning - moves you to Gold tier

3rd Field Visit - $75 plus $300 for sale = $875 YTD earnings

4th Field Visit - $75 plus $300 for sale = $1250 YTD earnings

5th Field Visit - $75 plus $300 for sale = $1625 YTD earnings - moves you to Platinum Tier

6th Field Visit - $100 plus $400 for sale = $2125 YTD earnings

Plus you would have gotten paid on the two field visits for showing your trailer depending on the tier you were in at those times.

You would receive the Platinum Tier gifts after the end of the year. The following year you would earn all year in the Platinum Tier. If you did 6 field visits and 6 people purchased, you would earn $3000. In our old program you would have only earned $1500. The Oliver Rewards Mastercard Debit card is just a reloadable gift card that can be used anywhere that accepts Mastercard or you can withdraw cash out ATMs.

As far as the store goes, yes we have ordered some of the products for it already.

Hope you are doing well! Hopefully I will see you again at the Maine Rally!

Matt,

Thank you for all of this information. We have a better understanding of the tier reward system with your example given.

David 

[Ollie-Haus]

Well based on the clarifications, I haven't read the information on the Oliver program site, that Matt has provided, I think the program is a definite improvement over the previous program. You will definitely realize a bigger monetary reward if you participate regularly, and a pre-paid debit is about the easiest way to transfer money to a recipient on a regular basis. It's the same as the HSA card I have to carry, only I can use this reward money on anything I want. If that's not good enough, step aside and leave it alone.

Regarding the so called liabilities, we all invite strangers into our campers, cars, homes and lives in general and don't think twice about the liabilities, without a reward program. If you get to talking to a lawyer about the "possibilities" you will retreat to a padded room surrounded by barbed wire fences and no trespassing signs. 

I have no idea if I will participate once my Ollie arrives, it really isn't a driving interest for me. But having said that I have always been willing to share with folks the things I own if they are genuinely interested. I'm always willing to help educate people with the things I've learned and experienced and my door is always open to folks that show themselves as friendly and of a like mind. And no I don't hang around with lawyers, but have hung with a few "outlaws" throughout my life. 😆

[Rivernerd]

3 hours ago, MDuncan said:

I sent you a copy through our digital signing process.

I have reviewed the Waiver of Liability, Assumption of Risk and Indemnification document Matt Duncan sent me.  It is tightly and carefully crafted.

Requiring those who view an Oliver trailer to execute this document should provide as much protection as can reasonably be provided to the Oliver owner showing a trailer from suit by an injured third party.  Not incidentally, it also protects Oliver Travel Trailers.  But, no such document can be 100% enforceable in every state, by every judge.

But in my judgment, that is not enough to persuade me to sign up, given the Indemnification language quoted in my earlier post from the Terms and Conditions for the Reward Program.  Were Oliver to get sued by someone injured during a trailer tour, that indemnification language allows Oliver to drag you into such a suit, even if you were not already a defendant, and make you pay Oliver's attorneys' fees and pay all of any judgment in favor of the plaintiff.   You would likely get dragged in, and incur attorneys' fee expenses, before a decision was made about the enforceability of the Waiver of Liability, Assumption of Risk and Indemnification document.  This could ultimately add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars (maybe millions in Texas or California).  Although the odds of getting sued are very low, the result could still be financial ruin for the unlucky Oliver owner--but not for Oliver or its insurer.

If, instead of shifting the burden of defense and indemnity to the Oliver trailer owner, Oliver's Terms and Conditions accepted responsibility to "fully defend and indemnify" the trailer owner in the event such a suit is commenced, I would be willing to sign up. 

Such a change would, in my judgment, also be fair.  Should an Oliver trailer owner be required to take even a very small chance of financial ruin in order to participate in the Rewards Program?  Or, since Oliver receives a significant financial benefit from Oliver owners showing their trailers, should not Oliver bear that risk?  In my view, it is more than fair for Oliver to "watch the back" of the owner, not the other way around.

When I was practicing law, I would not have advised any client to sign up for the Rewards Program under the existing Terms and Conditions, even with Oliver requiring execution of the Waiver of Liability, Assumption of Risk and Indemnification document.  And, I plan to follow my own advice--we will not be signing up unless and until Oliver removes the present Indemnification paragraph and substitutes "we've got your back" language in its stead.

[MDuncan]

17 hours ago, StillGame said:

So what are the activities that can be accomplished, other than a showing? Is there a way to see those without committing to join? 

 

For now the activities are...

1. Show Your Oliver to a Qualified Prospect When Requested by Oliver (You get paid for just showing it now) - $50 at Bronze & Silver tiers, $75 at Gold tier, and $100 at Platinum tier.
2. Prospect Purchases after Qualified Field Visit Requested by Oliver - You get $200 for Bronze and Silver tiers, $300 for gold tier, and $400 for Platinum tier.
3. Refer a Qualified Friend or Family Member that Purchases an Oliver - If the prospect has never contacted Oliver previously and you introduce them to the brand and they purchase a new Oliver, you will get the reward amount for the prospect purchasing a new Oliver (depending on the tier you are in. See bullet #2) and you will get a $250 bonus. This activity can be completed by Oliver trailer owners or non-owners.

We plan to add more activities to earn more reward dollars in the future.

You can find all the details here: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/rewards-program/

[MDuncan]

15 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

I have reviewed the Waiver of Liability, Assumption of Risk and Indemnification document Matt Duncan sent me.  It is tightly and carefully crafted.

Requiring those who view an Oliver trailer to execute this document should provide as much protection as can reasonably be provided to the Oliver owner showing a trailer.  Not incidentally, it also protects Oliver Travel Trailers.

But in my judgment, that is not enough to persuade me to sign up, given the Indemnification language quoted in my earlier post from the Terms and Conditions for the Reward Program.  Were Oliver to get sued by someone injured during a trailer tour, that indemnification language allows Oliver to drag you into such a suit, even if you were not already a defendant, and make you pay Oliver's attorneys' fees and pay all of any judgment in favor of the plaintiff.   This could add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars (maybe millions in Texas).  Although the odds of getting sued are very low, the result could still be financial ruin for the unlucky Oliver owner--but not for Oliver or its insurer.

If, instead of shifting the burden of defense and indemnity to the Oliver trailer owner, Oliver's Terms and Conditions accepted responsibility to "fully defend and indemnify" the trailer owner in the event such a suit is commenced, I would be willing to sign up. 

Such a change would, in my judgement, also be fair.  Should an Oliver trailer owner be required to take even a very small chance of financial ruin in order to participate in the Rewards Program?  Or, since Oliver receives a significant financial benefit from Oliver owners showing their trailers, should not Oliver bear that risk?  In my view, it is more than fair for Oliver to "watch the back" of the owner, not the other way around.

When I was practicing law, I would not have advised any client to sign up for the Rewards Program under the existing Terms and Conditions, even with Oliver requiring execution of the Waiver of Liability, Assumption of Risk and Indemnification document.  And, I plan to follow my own advice--we will not be signing up unless and until Oliver removes the present Indemnification paragraph and substitutes "we've got your back" language in its stead.

Thanks again for the feedback. I will pass this along.

[Steph and Dud B]

1 hour ago, MDuncan said:

Refer a Qualified Friend or Family Member that Purchases an Oliver

First, Matt @MDuncan, thank you for all the explanations and clarifications. Per the quote above, can you define "Qualified Friend"? If I get to know the couple camping next to me one weekend, show them my trailer, and they end up buying an Oliver based on that interaction, does that count as Qualified Friend? Almost every trip, another camper asks about our trailer. They aren't really friends, but they're interested and I often give them a tour. 

[John and Debbie]

56 minutes ago, MDuncan said:

For now the activities are...

1. Show Your Oliver to a Qualified Prospect When Requested by Oliver (You get paid for just showing it now) - $50 at Bronze & Silver tiers, $75 at Gold tier, and $100 at Platinum tier.
2. Prospect Purchases after Qualified Field Visit Requested by Oliver - You get $200 for Bronze and Silver tiers, $300 for gold tier, and $400 for Platinum tier.
3. Refer a Qualified Friend or Family Member that Purchases an Oliver - If the prospect has never contacted Oliver previously and you introduce them to the brand and they purchase a new Oliver, you will get the reward amount for the prospect purchasing a new Oliver (depending on the tier you are in. See bullet #2) and you will get a $250 bonus. This activity can be completed by Oliver trailer owners or non-owners.

We plan to add more activities to earn more reward dollars in the future.

You can find all the details here: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/rewards-program/

Matt, I will study this program some more.  Initially, I was skeptical of it, but you have gone the extra mile to explain it.  I may change my mind and willingly participate.  Rivernerd brought up a good point about liability which if reviewed and revised to everyone's satisfaction, we may get more owners willing to participate.  Thanks for explaining the program to us.  Have a great week.

John

[Steph and Dud B]

If OTT changes the indemnification language as @Rivernerd suggested, and gives us some credit if a spontaneous interaction with someone directly results in a sale (could be verified by the buyer providing OTT with our name and hull number), I think this would be a good program and we'd be happy to participate.

[MDuncan]

48 minutes ago, Steph and Dud B said:

First, Matt @MDuncan, thank you for all the explanations and clarifications. Per the quote above, can you define "Qualified Friend"? If I get to know the couple camping next to me one weekend, show them my trailer, and they end up buying an Oliver based on that interaction, does that count as Qualified Friend? Almost every trip, another camper asks about our trailer. They aren't really friends, but they're interested and I often give them a tour. 

@Steph and Dud B If they have never contacted Oliver previously and you refer them to us, they are consider a Qualified Friend or Family Member. if you meet someone that has never seen an Oliver before, I would ask for their info and ask if they care if you share it with us. In the Submit Activity Form, you can add their information as required and any notes about the event.

We will review the submitted activity to see if we have been in contact with the person previously. If they have contacted us previously, you would not qualify for the bonus but would still qualify as a field visit purchase reward.

[MDuncan]

14 minutes ago, Steph and Dud B said:

If OTT changes the indemnification language as @Rivernerd suggested, and gives us some credit if a spontaneous interaction with someone directly results in a sale (could be verified by the buyer providing OTT with our name and hull number), I think this would be a good program and we'd be happy to participate.

We are going to review the Indemnification language hopefully tomorrow. We appreciate everyone's feedback!

[MDuncan]

1 hour ago, John Welte said:

Matt, I will study this program some more.  Initially, I was skeptical of it, but you have gone the extra mile to explain it.  I may change my mind and willingly participate.  Rivernerd brought up a good point about liability which if reviewed and revised to everyone's satisfaction, we may get more owners willing to participate.  Thanks for explaining the program to us.  Have a great week.

John

You are welcome John! It's new to everyone. We will get the kinks worked out and it will be a good program. Thanks for the feeedback!

[Katjo]

43 minutes ago, MDuncan said:

@Steph and Dud B If they have never contacted Oliver previously and you refer them to us, they are consider a Qualified Friend or Family Member. if you meet someone that has never seen an Oliver before, I would ask for their info and ask if they care if you share it with us. In the Submit Activity Form, you can add their information as required and any notes about the event.

We will review the submitted activity to see if we have been in contact with the person previously. If they have contacted us previously, you would not qualify for the bonus but would still qualify as a field visit purchase reward.

So if we give someone a tour of our Oliver while for example we are at a campground and they would like more info and are willing to give their information, we submit that to Oliver and that quality’s as a field visit as long as they haven’t previously had contact with Oliver? 

[Steve Morris]

@MDuncan When we were first looking into Oliver Trailers, I joined here and the Facebook group, reading all about the trailer. I had casually asked if anyone was near me so that I could view a trailer. Members directed me to Oliver's site where I could have you guys find someone for me, but meanwhile, a couple nearby offered to show us their trailer.

After spending a couple hours with them, we decided to visit the factory for the tour and while we were there, we ordered a trailer. The couple that showed their trailer to us put in the paperwork and were rewarded for their kindness, even though it was not arranged by Oliver. Would situations like this qualify under the new plan? This was not a friends and family thing. Just complete strangers helping out a prospective buyer.

Thanks for any clarification,
Steve

[MDuncan]

59 minutes ago, Steve and Deb said:

@MDuncan When we were first looking into Oliver Trailers, I joined here and the Facebook group, reading all about the trailer. I had casually asked if anyone was near me so that I could view a trailer. Members directed me to Oliver's site where I could have you guys find someone for me, but meanwhile, a couple nearby offered to show us their trailer.

After spending a couple hours with them, we decided to visit the factory for the tour and while we were there, we ordered a trailer. The couple that showed their trailer to us put in the paperwork and were rewarded for their kindness, even though it was not arranged by Oliver. Would situations like this qualify under the new plan? This was not a friends and family thing. Just complete strangers helping out a prospective buyer.

Thanks for any clarification,
Steve

@Steve and Deb Absolutely. We use the term Friend or Family, but it can be anyone you refer to us. We don't care if you know them or not. If they had never contacted Oliver and you took the time to show them your trailer and they purchased a new Oliver, you would get rewarded. In the new program, you would get either $200 for Bronze or Silver tiers, $300 for Gold tier, or $400 for Platinum tier for them purchasing. And because they never had contacted Oliver, you would get a $250 bonus for them purchasing because you took the time to find them on your own. We want to encourage owners to help us find new customers. We don't pay the $50 for the field visit since we didn't qualify them first for just showing the trailer but, the owner can receive the other rewards if they do purchase. To qualify for the Field Visit Reward for just showing your trailer, it must be qualified and administered by Oliver.

[MDuncan]

1 hour ago, Katjo said:

So if we give someone a tour of our Oliver while for example we are at a campground and they would like more info and are willing to give their information, we submit that to Oliver and that quality’s as a field visit as long as they haven’t previously had contact with Oliver? 

See the previous comment above.

[Steve Morris]

6 minutes ago, MDuncan said:

Absolutely.

Thanks!