JDAstroPhoto Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 Does the 7-Pin connector from the Tow Vehicle charge the Lithium Batteries on the 2023 Oliver when the Tow Vehicle engine and alternator are running? If so does anyone know the charge rate? I believe the maximum charge rate on the 2023 charge controller at 12v is 150 amps. For example, if I had a dual alternator system on my Tow Vehicle with a 12v 440 amp output, how much would the charge controller pull through the 7-pin connector. If available will it pull the full 12v 150 amps to charge the Lithium Platinum package batteries? My guess is the wiring is not big enough gauge and therefore there is not enough copper to hand that much amperage, but does anyone know what Oliver has set the 12v amperage limit at from the 7-pin connector? Thanks 1 https://www.astrobin.com/users/JDAstroPhoto/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator+ ScubaRx Posted February 25, 2023 Moderator+ Share Posted February 25, 2023 On trailers built with lithium batteries, the charging wire from the truck is not attached. The alternator in the trucks do not produce the amperage needed to sufficiently supply the needs of the vehicle and have enough to charge the batteries at the same time. Attaching this wire will make the alternator run at full capacity all the time and would most likely cause the alternator to fail. Additionally, the wiring would need to be sized at 2/0 to carry 150 amps from the alternator to the batteries. The are other ways to accomplish this, but they have been covered previously. 4 Steve, Tali and our dog Rocky plus our beloved dogs Storm, Lucy, Maggie and Reacher (all waiting at the Rainbow Bridge) 2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #026 | 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #050 | 2022 Silverado High Country 3500HD SRW Diesel 4x4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDAstroPhoto Posted February 25, 2023 Author Share Posted February 25, 2023 Thank-you very much for the response. 1 https://www.astrobin.com/users/JDAstroPhoto/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMI Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 To charge your lithium batteries you’ll need a dc-dc converter like this 30 amp unit. Run some 6 gauge wire for the truck and trailer. To get anywhere close to 150 amps you’ll need to use massively larger wire and multiple charge controllers/converters wired in parallel along with your mention 440 amp alternator(s). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Davies Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 Welcome to the forum. It would be really nice if that would work, but as mentioned above, there is a some risk and significant material and labor costs…. You can look in your truck owners manual and see what size fuse is installed in that trailer charge wire. On my Land Cruiser it is 40 amps, meaning the circuit is safe with perhaps 30 amps continuous, at the most. I think the 7 pin socket could melt from that much constant current, especially when combined with dirty contacts. A separate heavier gauge power and ground set using “self cleaning” Anderson Power Pole contacts would be a lot safer. A DC to DC converter mounted inside the Ollie is the simplest way, plus when you resell, it adds to its value to the buyer. (Your altered truck won’t have any extra resale value.) My small Redarc unit has proved to be excellent, going though the 7 pin contacts, but it outputs 11 amps DC and it is only supplying 200 AH batteries. Your larger bank should probably get a 30 amp unit. With a “smart” alternator you will have to run a new small gauge wire to your engine bay, that acts to switch on and off the DC to DC converter in the trailer. https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/5270-how-to-redarc-dc-to-dc-11-amp-output-trailer-charger-installation/ If you haven’t seen this before, read and study this doc: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/6629-how-to-find-happiness-with-lifepo4-lithium-ion-batteries-solacity-article/ John Davies Spokane WA 3 SOLD 07/23 "Mouse": 2017 Legacy Elite II Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 32” LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel, Maggiolina Grand Tour 360 Carbon RTT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph and Dud B Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 I was concerned that there was no charge from our truck, especially since we run the fridge on 12v when traveling. However, we've found that the solar panels usually do a good job keeping up while on the road. 4 Stephanie and Dudley from CT. 2022 LE2, Hull #1150: Eggcelsior. Tow vehicle: 2016 GMC Sierra 6.0 gas dually 4x4. Our Oliver journey: Steph and Dud B's RV Screed Where we've been RVing since 1999: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivernerd Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 9 hours ago, ScubaRx said: On trailers built with lithium batteries, the charging wire from the truck is not attached. In principle, this fact concerned me. Like many others accustomed to having lead/acid batteries recharged by the tow vehicle alternator, I was concerned that the three 130Ah Lithionics G31 batteries included with our 2022 Elite II would get discharged during long driving days (when we run the absorption fridge on DC power), even though we have 380 watts of solar on the roof. So, I determined to follow John Davies' excellent posts referenced above and install a Redarc DC to DC charger IF our lithium battery state of charge seems low after long driving days. In actual practice, I am not yet concerned enough to invest the time and $$$$ in a DC to DC charger. We drove our Hull #1291 from Hohenwald back to central Idaho in the middle of last November. Some days were overcast. The daytime temps were consistently above freezing, and all night time temps were below freezing. We ran our absorption fridge on DC power while on the road, but switched to propane at night. Our battery state of charge never got below 85%, even on cloudy days, and quickly recovered to 100% once reconnected to shore power at a campsite. But, the DC power draw from the fridge during those cold temps, with the trailer cabin unheated during the day, was doubtless minimal. I plan to gather more data as we travel with Hull #1291 this spring and summer. An uncooled cabin may get pretty warm when on the road on hot summer days, requiring much greater DC power draw to keep the fridge at set temps. That should better inform the DC to DC charger decision. 6 Hull #1291 Central Idaho 2022 Elite II Tow Vehicle: 2019 Tundra Double Cab 4x4, 5.7L with tow package Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galway Girl Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 I put in a DC to DC charger as I added the two 315AH Lithionics to our hull as shown here: https://4-ever-hitched.com/ggs-blog/f/lithium-battery-upgrade Happy reading. Craig 2 2019 Elite II (Hull 505 - Galway Girl - August 7, 2019 Delivery) Tow Vehicle: 2021 F350 King Ranch, FX4, MaxTow Package, 10 Speed, 3.55 Rear Axle Batteries Upgrade: Dual 315GTX Lithionics Lithiums - 630AH Total Inverter/Charger: Xantrex 2000Pro Travel BLOG: https://4-ever-hitched.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDAstroPhoto Posted February 26, 2023 Author Share Posted February 26, 2023 Craig, Thanks for that link, very informative. I am currently in the market for a tow vehicle and a LEII, so as I stated in another post, I am doing some sizing analysis. For the tow vehicle the trucks offer a 2 alternator option, with the second alternator coming in at 220 amps for 440 amps total. Presuming the first alternator covers all the needs of the truck, then I would have an entire alternator with 12v 220 amps to refill the lithium batteries. On the 2023 LEII the Victron charger is set to 12v 150 amp bulk charge. The bulk charge time for the 12v 640Ah batteries is about 4 hours. If I could get 12v 150amps from the alternator system for a DC/DC charging, then I would not need a 3,000 watt generator plus gas. I could just run the Diesel truck for 4 hours. From what I've been reading the Ram Cummins Diesel burns about 1 gallon every 3 hours at idle, 0.33 gallons/hour. So for 1.3 gallons of Diesel I could bulk charge the Lithium batteries that were almost empty. That is presuming, of course, at idle the 440 amp alternators have 150 amps to spare at idle. The new Honda EU3200i is rated at 3.3 hr. @ rated load, 8.6 hrs @ 1/4 load. 150 amps *12 = 1800 watts. That's about 56% of rated power. It looks like that is somewhere around 5.5 hours per tank which is 1.2 gallons or 0.218 gallons/hour at 1800 watt load. For 4 hours = 0.87 gallons The difference isn't as much as you might think intuitively. Ram Cummins Diesel at idle 1.3 gallons, Honda EU3200i about 0.87 gallons at 1800 watt load. ************************ The other interesting option is to DC/AC convert about 3,000 watts and plug it in to the 120v 30amp trailer. Then you could charge the batteries and run the A/C in the trailer at the same time. 1800 watts for the bulk charging and 1200 watts for the A/C. That's presuming that the 440 amp alternators have 250 amps to spare at idle. That would be more efficient than running the Honda EU3200i, since it would be at rated load which is 0.36 gal/hour or 1.45 gallons for 4 hours. 1.3 gallons of Diesel for 4 hours for the Cummins. 1 https://www.astrobin.com/users/JDAstroPhoto/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Davies Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 No camp host in the country will let you idle your diesel truck for hours to charge your trailer. Plus it is bad for your engine and it will piss off your camp neighbors. . Just forget about it. John Davies Spokane WA 5 SOLD 07/23 "Mouse": 2017 Legacy Elite II Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 32” LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel, Maggiolina Grand Tour 360 Carbon RTT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator+ ScubaRx Posted February 27, 2023 Moderator+ Share Posted February 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, John E Davies said: No camp host in the country will let you idle your diesel truck for hours to charge your trailer. Plus it is bad for your engine and it will piss off your camp neighbors. . Just forget about it. John Davies Spokane Ws John is correct. We don't generally stay in a campground but the ones that we have, had "No Vehicle Idling" signs posted. Even if you ignore the signs, your neighbors will likely call you out on it after a short time. On the other hand, it should be fine during "generator hours" if the campground has such an area. That reminds me of the old "smoking" sections that used to be in restaurants or other establishments. 4 Steve, Tali and our dog Rocky plus our beloved dogs Storm, Lucy, Maggie and Reacher (all waiting at the Rainbow Bridge) 2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #026 | 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #050 | 2022 Silverado High Country 3500HD SRW Diesel 4x4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geronimo John Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 On 2/24/2023 at 7:12 PM, JDAstroPhoto said: how much would the charge controller pull through the 7-pin connector The cable at the 7-Pin is 12 AWG. In practice anything over about 10 amps will badly char the black (12V Plus) wire. On 2/25/2023 at 4:12 AM, ChrisMI said: Run some 6 gauge wire for the truck and trailer. For my 2019 F-150 Super Crew, to run out and back between Ollie and truck batteries required a bit over 105 feet of stranded copper wire. BatteryCablesUSA indicates that for a 30 amp DC/DC charger setup at this distance, the wires should optimally be 4 AWG for a rig such as our Ollie that does not have solar. Be careful to not directly connect Lithiums to Lead Acid/AGM batteries. The much lower internal resistance of the Lithiums will flow current that likely will damage the wiring or your AGM and likely the alternator. Additionally the charge profiles between such a setup is very different. As such, the use of an Orion 12/12 - 30 amp or other brands of charge control between the truck and RV is essential. 23 hours ago, JDAstroPhoto said: The new Honda EU3200i is rated..... With the OTT Solar Packages, a quiet inverter generator is a good back-up plan. Something in the 2,000 to 2200 watt range would be what most OTT owners would opt for. The EU3200 would be overkill for the vast majority of the Solar Package owners. Without lithium and solar, if just running AGM or LA in the Ollie, having the Inverter EU3200 would be nice to have. Just my two cents as each owner's power needs are unique. 3 TV: 2019 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, 3.5L EcoBoost, Max Tow, FX-4, Rear Locker OLLIE: 2018 OE2 Hull 342, Twin Bed. OLLIE DIY’s: Timken Bearings, BB LiFePO4's, Victron 712 Smart, 350 Amp Master Switch, Houghton 3400, Victron Orion DC - DC, 3000-Watt Renogy Inverter, P.D. 60-amp Converter, Frig Dual Exhaust Fans, Kitchen Drawer Straps. TV DIY’s: 2 5/16" Anderson System, Nitto recon’s, Firestone Rear Air Bags, Bilstein 5100’s, Mud Flaps & Weather Tech all, installed Ham Radio (WH6JPR). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivernerd Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Geronimo John said: Something in the 2,000 to 2200 watt range would be what most OTT owners would opt for. The EU3200 would be overkill for the vast majority of the Solar Package owners. UNLESS you have the Truma Aventa air conditioner. Since Truma will not allow installation of a Micro Air Easy Start in its units, you must have 3kw to start and run the Truma Aventa AC unit with an inverter/generator. That is why we carry two 2kw dual fuel Champion inverter generators with a Paralink kit. When running on propane, the two units generate about 3060 watts combined, which is barely enough to run the Truma Aventa AC. So, with the Truma Aventa AC, the EU3200 would not be "overkill;" it would be necessary to run the air conditioner. 1 2 Hull #1291 Central Idaho 2022 Elite II Tow Vehicle: 2019 Tundra Double Cab 4x4, 5.7L with tow package Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geronimo John Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 5 hours ago, Rivernerd said: UNLESS you have the Truma Aventa air conditioner Yep. Hence the use of a key word: "Most" owners as Dometic Peguine II SADLY greatly out numbers the much nicer Truma units. Good that you clarified the nuance. I have to wonder if needing such a large, and expensive generator or two smaller ones was considered in OTT's decision? Was this made clear to all new and prospective owners? Regardless I thank you for making this distinction very clear. Well done. Thank you! John TV: 2019 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat, 3.5L EcoBoost, Max Tow, FX-4, Rear Locker OLLIE: 2018 OE2 Hull 342, Twin Bed. OLLIE DIY’s: Timken Bearings, BB LiFePO4's, Victron 712 Smart, 350 Amp Master Switch, Houghton 3400, Victron Orion DC - DC, 3000-Watt Renogy Inverter, P.D. 60-amp Converter, Frig Dual Exhaust Fans, Kitchen Drawer Straps. TV DIY’s: 2 5/16" Anderson System, Nitto recon’s, Firestone Rear Air Bags, Bilstein 5100’s, Mud Flaps & Weather Tech all, installed Ham Radio (WH6JPR). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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