Towing an Oliver I

[bbrault]

Hi

I asked a similar question before. 
My tow vehicle is a Highlander 2020 V6 gas with 5000 pound towing capacity. 
I installed a RedArc proposal Electric controller and I plan to install a Andersen weight distribution hitch. 
 

I know that I would be towing once loaded at 4700 pounds. That’s why I have been considering getting a Airstream Basecamp REI. But I prefer the Oliver for many reasons. 
 

I would appreciate your honest safety advise. 
Keep in mind that our Highlander will never have more that 3 passengers. 

[Rivernerd]

7 minutes ago, bbrault said:

I would appreciate your honest safety advise. 
Keep in mind that our Highlander will never have more that 3 passengers. 

My quick Google search suggested that your V6 Highlander should have at least 1485 lbs. of payload capacity.  4700 lbs. of Legacy Elite I will likely result in at least 470 lbs. of trailer tongue weight.  That leaves about 1000 lbs. of payload capacity for 3 passengers+gear.  IMHO, this is within the safe range as long as you are not carrying 3 NFL linemen.   But, I would strongly recommend an Andersen weight distribution hitch. 

[Ollie-Haus]

I'll leave any on line research to the owner, but I will pose a question that will need to be answered. What does Toyota and the owner's manual say about using a weight distribution hitch on that particular vehicle. It sounds like it's within the tow rating, but payload does not define tongue weight capacity. Some vehicles don't allow WD hitches to mitigate tongue weight. Just saying this is another limit that must be considered. 

[Farside]

Payload is usually the limiting factor. What does it say on the sticker inside your drivers side door (it will say something like “the total of passengers and cargo should not exceed”. 

[SeaDawg]

Our E1 weighed in at just shy of 4000, loaded for camping, when we had old school fridge. We're lighter now.

Tongue,  no basket, I think 420. I'll look it up.

5090 towing capacity is probably less than ideal, in the mountains.  Worked fine with our Volvo xc90 inflat land, towing capacity 4900.

[bbrault]

3 hours ago, Ollie-Haus said:

I'll leave any on line research to the owner, but I will pose a question that will need to be answered. What does Toyota and the owner's manual say about using a weight distribution hitch on that particular vehicle. It sounds like it's within the tow rating, but payload does not define tongue weight capacity. Some vehicles don't allow WD hitches to mitigate tongue weight. Just saying this is another limit that must be considered. 

Excellent question but Toyota has no response to this. Moving a few hundred pounds forward helps in any situation. 

[bbrault]

4 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

My quick Google search suggested that your V6 Highlander should have at least 1485 lbs. of payload capacity.  4700 lbs. of Legacy Elite I will likely result in at least 470 lbs. of trailer tongue weight.  That leaves about 1000 lbs. of payload capacity for 3 passengers+gear.  IMHO, this is within the safe range as long as you are not carrying 3 NFL linemen.   But, I would strongly recommend an Andersen weight distribution hitch. 

Thanks 

[John E Davies]

It is never a good idea to have a marginal vehicle, but you can lighten the Highlander. Remove the third row seat completely, move your heavier cargo forward. Payload is heavily impacted by optional features, what does your actual sticker say?

Where do you live, where do you want to go camping? You will not like the Highlander’s performance out West in July…..

If you don’t really love your trucklet, trade it in for a full sized body on frame truck designed for towing. Then you could pick an LE2, if you need the room. Or it would tow an LE1 without breaking a sweat. Most of these passenger vehicles are fine pulling a boat to the lake, not so much a travel trailer across the county..

John Davies

Spokane WA

[John E Davies]

“Besides the powertrain, the Highlander also needs the available AWD option installed with the Dynamic Torque Vectoring (TV-AWD) feature. This feature improves on both the responsiveness and stability of the Highlander. It does this by sending up to half of the power to the rear and then basing distribution of the rest solely on who needs it most.

The third piece in the 5,000-pound puzzle is the drivetrain, specifically the available 8-speed automatic transmission. With these three things installed, your Highlander is ready to tow anything up that upper towing capacity of 5,000lbs.“

https://tractionlife.com/toyota-highlander-towing-capacity-specs-up-close/

John Davies

Spokane WA

[ScubaRx]

6 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

My quick Google search suggested that your V6 Highlander should have at least 1485 lbs. of payload capacity.  4700 lbs. of Legacy Elite I will likely result in at least 470 lbs. of trailer tongue weight.  That leaves about 1000 lbs. of payload capacity for 3 passengers+gear.  IMHO, this is within the safe range as long as you are not carrying 3 NFL linemen.   But, I would strongly recommend an Andersen weight distribution hitch. 

You would need some kind of weight distribution and since Andersen is your only option, we’ll go with that one. Take another 65 pounds out of your cargo capacity. 
 

Assuming your current vehicle has all the stuff that JD listed above: Three average passengers, 450 pounds. Gear for three, who knows. Technically, you’re within the limits. Realistically, it will be a mediocre experience at best. I would expect this experiment to last a year at most before you trade for a more capable tow vehicle. 

[ScubaRx]

4 hours ago, Ollie-Haus said:

I'll leave any on line research to the owner, but I will pose a question that will need to be answered. What does Toyota and the owner's manual say about using a weight distribution hitch on that particular vehicle. It sounds like it's within the tow rating, but payload does not define tongue weight capacity. Some vehicles don't allow WD hitches to mitigate tongue weight. Just saying this is another limit that must be considered. 

Weight distribution works to distribute the tongue weight of a trailer up to the front axle of the tow vehicle so that it will sit more level and handle/brake better. That being said the weight distribution systems do not "reduce or mitigate” tongue weight or allow you to tow beyond the capacities of the vehicle.

[Ollie-Haus]

1 hour ago, ScubaRx said:

Weight distribution works to distribute the tongue weight of a trailer up to the front axle of the tow vehicle so that it will sit more level and handle/brake better. That being said the weight distribution systems do not "reduce or mitigate” tongue weight or allow you to tow beyond the capacities of the vehicle.

I did not say WD hitches "reduce" tongue weight. I said "mitigate", as in mitigate the effect by transferring downward force back to the front axle of the tow vehicle. 

This is only if the vehicle is designed to withstand the forces exerted by a weight distribution hitch. My point is that some vehicles specifically do not allow the use of a weight distribution hitch (uni-body design). I'm not familiar with the OP's vehicle so I'm posing the question they need to establish an answer to. I'm also pointing out the cargo capacity and tongue weight are two different capacities designed into that vehicle and that you can be within the cargo capacity and still exceed the tongue weight capacity of the hitch. Most hitches have information on them stating tongue weight capacity, without WD hitch, and with WD hitch. If a WD hitch is not approved it should say so on the hitch or in the owner's manual. 

[Ollie-Haus]

3 hours ago, bbrault said:

Excellent question but Toyota has no response to this. Moving a few hundred pounds forward helps in any situation. 

Your hitch should have a data tag on it from the factory that states it's capacities. You will need to remain within the capacities listed regardless of the cargo capacity of the vehicle. If it allows for a weight distribution system to be used with a trailer, it will state that capacity as a separate number as opposed to a non-weight distribution capacity. If it doesn't have a WD capacity listed, it may have a statement indicating WD is not allow. If your vehicle is a uni-body design, it may not be designed for using a WD hitching system. Some uni-bodies do allow. Again I'm not familiar with your vehicle. 

Here's a recent article in cars.com that addresses your questions regarding towing with your vehicle. In the section titled "Picking a trailer hitch" it states:

"Many body-on-frame SUVs, including the Ford Expedition and Chevrolet Tahoe, will require a weight-distribution hitch in order to reach their maximum rated capacity. Some vehicles, generally SUVs with unibody frames, clearly state that a weight-distribution hitch should not be used as frame damage can occur. Check the vehicle owner’s manual for use of a weight-distribution hitch".

https://www.cars.com/articles/what-you-need-to-know-before-towing-with-an-suv-423759/

[bbrault]

11 hours ago, Farside said:

Payload is usually the limiting factor. What does it say on the sticker inside your drivers side door (it will say something like “the total of passengers and cargo should not exceed”. 

It says not to exceed 1390 pounds. 

[bbrault]

11 hours ago, Farside said:

Payload is usually the limiting factor. What does it say on the sticker inside your drivers side door (it will say something like “the total of passengers and cargo should not exceed”. 

It says not to exceed 1390 pounds

[bbrault]

8 hours ago, John E Davies said:

“Besides the powertrain, the Highlander also needs the available AWD option installed with the Dynamic Torque Vectoring (TV-AWD) feature. This feature improves on both the responsiveness and stability of the Highlander. It does this by sending up to half of the power to the rear and then basing distribution of the rest solely on who needs it most.

The third piece in the 5,000-pound puzzle is the drivetrain, specifically the available 8-speed automatic transmission. With these three things installed, your Highlander is ready to tow anything up that upper towing capacity of 5,000lbs.“

https://tractionlife.com/toyota-highlander-towing-capacity-specs-up-close/

John Davies

Spokane WA

I have the AWD on it but I don’t know about TV-AWD?

[bbrault]

7 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

You would need some kind of weight distribution and since Andersen is your only option, we’ll go with that one. Take another 65 pounds out of your cargo capacity. 
 

Assuming your current vehicle has all the stuff that JD listed above: Three average passengers, 450 pounds. Gear for three, who knows. Technically, you’re within the limits. Realistically, it will be a mediocre experience at best. I would expect this experiment to last a year at most before you trade for a more capable tow vehicle. 

The sticker says 1390 pounds. 

[Frank C]

So from that 1,390 pound payload limit, subtract the Elite I tongue weight of 400 to 500 pounds, then subtract the weight of 3 adults (500 to 600 pounds), and subtract the weight of the Andersen hitch (~50 lbs.), subtract the weight of Rock Tamer mud flaps if you add those to the hitch (~50 lbs.), then subtract the weight of EVERYTHING ELSE that’s ever been added in or on your tow vehicle (floor mats, mud flaps, cargo liner, tools, etc.) and that gives you the remaining payload number left for your camping gear.  It gets used up surprisingly fast when you honestly count the weight of EVERYTHING that wasn’t in or on the vehicle from the factory.  We started towing our Elite II with large body-on-frame SUVs (a Ford Expedition EL with HD tow package first, and then a Nissan Armada).  On paper, both were fully capable of towing the Elite II (both did require the Andersen WDH), but the reality for camping was not ideal.  And the EcoBoost V6 engine in the Expedition felt overworked when towing in the mountains.  We carry a lot for extended road/camping trips, and while both those SUVs had plenty of cargo/payload weight rating (around 1,700 lbs.) and towing capacity, the reality was that cargo VOLUME became a bigger issue for long camping trips.  We carry two camp chairs, a 9’x12’ outdoor rug, a folding picnic table, a drying rack for clothes, a portable grill, an extra 20 lb. propane tank, tools and emergency roadside gear, two bicycles, an ice filled cooler, portable solar panel, etc. so I was getting close to the payload weight limit and also just ran out of space in those SUVs.  We now use a Ford F-250 and no more worries.  Towing and camping are much more enjoyable now.  

[AndrewK]

bbrault,

If you have questions about capability and hitch set up, I suggest calling the folks at CanAm RV Centre in London, Ontario Canada.

The owner is one of the foremost experts on towing in North America and they are more than willing to answer any questions you may have.

They will also be able to provide firsthand experience regarding your vehicle, as they set up a 100+ vehicles every month.

I found them to be a great resource.

Andrew

[bbrault]

On 3/14/2023 at 11:38 PM, John E Davies said:

“Besides the powertrain, the Highlander also needs the available AWD option installed with the Dynamic Torque Vectoring (TV-AWD) feature. This feature improves on both the responsiveness and stability of the Highlander. It does this by sending up to half of the power to the rear and then basing distribution of the rest solely on who needs it most.

The third piece in the 5,000-pound puzzle is the drivetrain, specifically the available 8-speed automatic transmission. With these three things installed, your Highlander is ready to tow anything up that upper towing capacity of 5,000lbs.“

https://tractionlife.com/toyota-highlander-towing-capacity-specs-up-close/

John Davies

Spokane WA

Hi John

I honestly appreciate your feedback. 
Here is more info:

I have the AWD V6 8 speed XLE. 
It has sway control but I don’t think I have TV-AWD. I installed a class 3 hitch and a RedArc proportional brake controller. I also plan to add the Andersen Weight distribution option. 

Legacy I with all my options Dry Weight: 4150# + 32 galons water 260# + kitchenware 50# + Food/Clothing 100# = 4560#

TV Door Sticker capacity on driver door 1390#
Tongue 450# + 2 Passengers 300# + gear 160# = 910#

I would be at 91% Tow Capacity and 66% Load Capacity.

Ideally, I would want to be at less that 80% on both numbers but combined the total weight is 5470# for a total capacity of 6390# putting me at 85%. 
 

For the next few years, we plan to camp in the North East within a few hours from home because we still have teenagers at home. Going across the country may not happen before a few years. By then, I should have enough experience towing to decide if I want to replace my Highlander with a more capable vehicle. Meanwhile, safety is my most important concern. I don’t mind if the engine struggles uphill as much as I want to have good control and braking. 

I also selected the Legacy I because it fits in my garage and since my wife and I am 5’9 and my wife is a petite 5’2, we feel at ease with the lower ceiling and smaller bed. 
 

What do you think? 
 

 

 

 

 

[bbrault]

On 3/15/2023 at 9:44 AM, Frank C said:

So from that 1,390 pound payload limit, subtract the Elite I tongue weight of 400 to 500 pounds, then subtract the weight of 3 adults (500 to 600 pounds), and subtract the weight of the Andersen hitch (~50 lbs.), subtract the weight of Rock Tamer mud flaps if you add those to the hitch (~50 lbs.), then subtract the weight of EVERYTHING ELSE that’s ever been added in or on your tow vehicle (floor mats, mud flaps, cargo liner, tools, etc.) and that gives you the remaining payload number left for your camping gear.  It gets used up surprisingly fast when you honestly count the weight of EVERYTHING that wasn’t in or on the vehicle from the factory.  We started towing our Elite II with large body-on-frame SUVs (a Ford Expedition EL with HD tow package first, and then a Nissan Armada).  On paper, both were fully capable of towing the Elite II (both did require the Andersen WDH), but the reality for camping was not ideal.  And the EcoBoost V6 engine in the Expedition felt overworked when towing in the mountains.  We carry a lot for extended road/camping trips, and while both those SUVs had plenty of cargo/payload weight rating (around 1,700 lbs.) and towing capacity, the reality was that cargo VOLUME became a bigger issue for long camping trips.  We carry two camp chairs, a 9’x12’ outdoor rug, a folding picnic table, a drying rack for clothes, a portable grill, an extra 20 lb. propane tank, tools and emergency roadside gear, two bicycles, an ice filled cooler, portable solar panel, etc. so I was getting close to the payload weight limit and also just ran out of space in those SUVs.  We now use a Ford F-250 and no more worries.  Towing and camping are much more enjoyable now.  

You certainly have a very nice setup. 
I may be underestimating the amount of gear that I will carry. I did some calculations on my gear and weight and I arrive somewhere around 4650 out of 5000 for the trailer and 910 out of 1390. I am more concerned about safety, control and braking as opposed to pushing the engine or transmission while climbing. 

[bbrault]

On 3/15/2023 at 12:55 PM, AndrewK said:

bbrault,

If you have questions about capability and hitch set up, I suggest calling the folks at CanAm RV Centre in London, Ontario Canada.

The owner is one of the foremost experts on towing in North America and they are more than willing to answer any questions you may have.

They will also be able to provide firsthand experience regarding your vehicle, as they set up a 100+ vehicles every month.

I found them to be a great resource.

Andrew

Thank You for the info. 
I will definitely call them.