Practical Size Limit

[HDRider]

I have to think this has been many a campfire conversations between Oliver owners.

 

Is there a practical size limit of a trailer constructed in the manner of our Oliver?

 

Could Oliver build a 30' trailer? 

 

The Airstream Flying Cloud 23 FB weighs about the same as a Legacy Elite II. 

[Steph and Dud B]

I suspect weight is a consideration. The Flying Cloud is 8' wide, so there's more material there. A comparable OTT would be heavier, but probably still within reason. As for technical limits, I don't see why OTT couldn't build something that big. There are 30' fiberglass boats. I think the closest RV comparison would be the Bigfoots, but even they only go up to 25'. 

[topgun2]

I understand that EACH of the molds costs between 2 and 3 million dollars.

I'd bet that there would/are some real interesting conversations within Oliver about dropping that kind of money versus how much the finished unit would cost versus just how many of them could be sold.

But, to help answer the question - I don't see why a 30 foot Oliver couldn't be built.  

Bill

[Steph and Dud B]

17 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

I understand that EACH of the molds costs between 2 and 3 million dollars.

Well, if we all pitched in...... 😁

[HDRider]

24 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

I understand that EACH of the molds costs between 2 and 3 million dollars.

I'd bet that there would/are some real interesting conversations within Oliver about dropping that kind of money versus how much the finished unit would cost versus just how many of them could be sold.

But, to help answer the question - I don't why a 30 foot Oliver couldn't be built.  

Bill

You would need to generate somewhere north of $20 million in sales per year to justify a $3 million capital investment with a net margin of 15%.

[HDRider]

A 30' AS Flying Could weighs 6,600 pounds.  My back of the envelope calculations puts a 30' Oliver at approximately 6,300 pounds. 

 

A 30' AS Flying Cloud starts at $127,500.  Another back of the envelope calculation puts a 30' Oliver starting at about $97,000. 

[topgun2]

2 hours ago, Steph and Dud B said:

Well, if we all pitched in......

I thought we did.....😊

[MAX Burner]

We sure did...🤣

[Jason Foster]

6 hours ago, topgun2 said:

I thought we did.....😊

My bank account agrees with this assessment.   

[Jason Foster]

The real question is, who here would buy a 30 foot Oliver that weighs somewhere south of 7k for roughly $115k?

[Jason Foster]

In answer to my own question, I don't think I would.  I love the size of the LE2 and I am still in a bit of sticker shock after purchasing it. However, if Oliver added a full size head?  hmmm.  Tempting.

[Steph and Dud B]

It's all trade-offs. We had a big fifth wheel. Living room recliners, big dry bath and shower, etc., etc. It's was nice, especially on rainy days or when one of us was sick. And we could entertain friends inside. But we didn't have as many choices for campsites as we do with the Ollie and towing mileage was about 20-25% less. When we purchased Eggcelsior we were planning on multi-month trips, which we thought it would be ideal for. Circumstances have ruled that out for now but, two seasons in, our Ollie has worked for us anyway because we can fit it into campsites that were out of the question with the fifth wheel. (And that's just the physical footprint advantage. The real game changer has been the solar and lithium package.)

[HDRider]

11 hours ago, Jason Foster said:

In answer to my own question, I don't think I would.  I love the size of the LE2 and I am still in a bit of sticker shock after purchasing it. However, if Oliver added a full size head?  hmmm.  Tempting.

The wet bath was the thing that kept me walking away from Oliver.  We were very close to purchasing an Airstream with a dry bath, but the better quality of the Oliver was worth not getting a dry bath. 

 

My thinking is a larger unit would put Oliver squarely in Airstream territory with a much better product.

[MAX Burner]

The dry-bath would be incentive to get into a larger Oliver - but we wouldn't be interested in a 30-footer.  

We had a 31' AS and although comfortable inside, too limiting for our particular camping style.  OTT would get our attention If they offered a dry bath 27' - because any larger of a rig wouldn't fit in the Man Cave... HA!

Those "Plugs" that OTT uses to form the hulls are not a cheap date, just like @topgun2 mentioned.  

Offering a slightly larger dry-bath rig with other amenities would definitely worm OTT into Airstream market space - 100% concur w/ @HDRider's comment.

[topgun2]

On 1/27/2024 at 7:53 AM, HDRider said:

The wet bath was the thing that kept me walking away from Oliver.  We were very close to purchasing an Airstream with a dry bath, but the better quality of the Oliver was worth not getting a dry bath. 

I too was not happy with the "wet bath".

It was probably Anita, but early on someone mentioned to me just how "expensive" RV real estate is.  They went on to explain by asking me just how much actual time I spent in the bath each day versus virtually any other part of the trailer.  Good point I thought and then they mentioned the virtual "automatic cleaning" of the bath that occurs each time I used it for a shower.  As it turns out - I was concerned over basically nothing - it really isn't any big deal and certainly I do use the other real estate more than I would use that same square footage in a dry bath.

Another related thought - Oliver could (fairly easily) actually make a dry bath in the Elite II.  Simply eliminate the closet and then extend the bath area into that "old" closet area - easy.  I'm not giving up that closet space though!

Bill

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Having pulled an 8’ 6” wide Airstream across the Columbia River via the 9’ 4.75” wide lanes of the Hood River bridge, a trailer that size is something I don’t ever want to own again.  The pucker factor of the experience is one I don’t want to re-experience.  Even my 9’ 6” wide barn doors were enough to terrify me when there was snow on the ground. 
 

All that said, a slightly larger Oliver would be appealing.  Something roughly 7’ 6” wide, and 25’ long.  I don’t need a dry bath, but would like a bit more storage, a longer bunk, and most of all, a wider aisle. 

[Jason Foster]

11 hours ago, HDRider said:

The wet bath was the thing that kept me walking away from Oliver.  We were very close to purchasing an Airstream with a dry bath, but the better quality of the Oliver was worth not getting a dry bath. 

 

My thinking is a larger unit would put Oliver squarely in Airstream territory with a much better product.

This was exactly what went through my mind before buying the Oliver.  My wife and I went back and forth on it for a month before deciding that we just don't spend that much time in the bathroom.  Sure, a dry bath, and one I can actually stand up in, would be great, but the differences in quality between the Oliver and the only other contender out there in my opinion, the AS, was like night and day.  The AS I was looking at was the 27-foot Globetrotter.  It marked all the items on the list, but the build quality was suspect and the hull, although pretty, seemed like something out of nightmares for those parked under tree limbs and suffering the occasional hailstorm.  

I honestly think the Oliver already is in Airstream territory, if not in fact beyond it.  A 27-foot dry bath Oliver would be so far beyond AS, they couldn't catch up.  

[Jason Foster]

9 hours ago, topgun2 said:

  I'm not giving up that closet space though!

Same.  That closet keeps all the clutter out of the living space and the TV.  I wouldn't do it any other way.

[Jason Foster]

As far as Oliver being able to build one, as HDRider originally asked, I don't see any reason other than cost vs. benefit.  As it sits, the LE2 is 208.5 lbs per linear foot.  At 30 foot as mentioned, that would increase the dry weight from 4,900 lbs to 6,255 lbs.  That is a substantial increase.  Keeping with the current 30% allowance for cargo and water, the GVWR would increase from 7,000 lbs to approximately 9,000 lbs.  I'm not an engineer but spanning that extra distance with fiberglass makes me wonder if they would have to build it up some more to keep the rigidity.  That might add another 500 lbs.  A 10,000 lbs Oliver doesn't sound too appealing to me. 

Then they would have to consider the extra 6.5 feet per trailer in their warehouse.  For every 3.5 30-footers, they lose one 23.5 trailer on their floor.   Not only would the molds need to be replaced, but the infrastructure would have to be increased.  If they were to shut down production of one of their models to accommodate the space, it might not be so bad as long as the sales price compensated, but there are a lot of people that still want the LE1 and LE2, so the LE3 (30-footer) would need its own space.  

[Geronimo John]

On 1/26/2024 at 6:08 AM, topgun2 said:

I understand that EACH of the molds costs between 2 and 3 million dollars.

I would not be surprised if it cost that much to develop a new mold.  Maybe even more as getting it perfect the first time would be extremely difficult to do.

But I would have to ponder a bit that a replacement mold made like previous ones would be that expensive.  Can you please clarify?

As far as a 30' OEIII, I doubt it would be commercially successful for OTT due to the developmental costs it would take.  

That said, it sure would be nice!!!!!

GJ

[Steph and Dud B]

Here's an article about some big fiberglass trailers from the past, including a 38' fifth wheel prototype (which looks very cool): https://www.theautopian.com/this-prototype-fiberglass-camper-is-a-38-foot-beast-filled-with-brilliant-ideas-that-never-made-it/

[topgun2]

2 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

But I would have to ponder a bit that a replacement mold made like previous ones would be that expensive.  Can you please clarify?

Nope!

Not because I don't want to - but - because I simply don't know - sorry.

Bill

[Ollie-Haus]

Regarding the wet bath/dry bath perspective, we quickly came to the same conclusion as others have. And It's the first thing I bring up when someone says, "I won't have a wet bath". I point out that I don't camp out in the bath, or use it for a library. Ninety-nine percent of our day is spent someplace other than the bathroom. The fact that it's called a wet bath really doesn't change much about the way I use it compared to a similar dry bath. For us it was a non-conversation, just something to be aware of. 

On the note of how much RV real estate is valued at, I think Oliver knocked it out of the park with how efficiently they met all the needs in such a compact camper. Like someone pointed out, everything has trade-offs, and I think the design of the Oliver campers makes the most gain possible for the trade-offs they chose to work with.  

[Steph and Dud B]

There really hasn't been that much difference in our use of the Ollie wet bath compared to the dry bath in our fifth wheel - except height. At 6', I have to bend over to wash my hair in the Ollie, which I didn't have to do in the fifth wheel, but that isn't specifically because it's a wet bath. We have the OTT-supplied shower curtain to keep the commode area dry while showering. We used to wipe down the walls of the shower enclosure in the fifth wheel just like we wipe down the shower walls in the Ollie now. Not really all that different. 

(The one thing I really miss was specific to our last fifth wheel. The bathroom was right next to the furnace and there was a floor heat register in the bathroom just outside the shower enclosure. You'd step out of the shower and stand right over that heat vent on cold days. Wonderful.)

[ScubaRx]

On 1/27/2024 at 6:49 PM, Jason Foster said:

As far as Oliver being able to build one, as HDRider originally asked, I don't see any reason other than cost vs. benefit.  As it sits, the LE2 is 208.5 lbs per linear foot.  At 30 foot as mentioned, that would increase the dry weight from 4,900 lbs to 6,255 lbs.  That is a substantial increase.  Keeping with the current 30% allowance for cargo and water, the GVWR would increase from 7,000 lbs to approximately 9,000 lbs.  I'm not an engineer but spanning that extra distance with fiberglass makes me wonder if they would have to build it up some more to keep the rigidity.  That might add another 500 lbs.  A 10,000 lbs Oliver doesn't sound too appealing to me. 

Then they would have to consider the extra 6.5 feet per trailer in their warehouse.  For every 3.5 30-footers, they lose one 23.5 trailer on their floor.   Not only would the molds need to be replaced, but the infrastructure would have to be increased.  If they were to shut down production of one of their models to accommodate the space, it might not be so bad as long as the sales price compensated, but there are a lot of people that still want the LE1 and LE2, so the LE3 (30-footer) would need its own space.  

There’s 800,000 square feet in their factory building. Jim Oliver was forward thinking man as are his sons that are currently running the businesses he left behind. There’s plenty of room for future expansion if they so choose.