Battery Cable becomes too Short after replacing a battery

[SNY SD UP]

This may apply to you if you have to replace one of the original 'Bright Way' AGM batteries supplied on earlier OTT's.  Ours is a 2020, LE II.
I am not familiar with other batteries physical attributes which OTT may have used over the years, so it may/may not apply.

The carry handle for the Bright Way's sits imbedded in the top of the battery and can be lifted up to carry. 
If a Briteway is replaced with SoB that has the carry handle that extends over the side that hooks into a collar, it will be a tighter fit for that battery to 'play' alongside the Bright Way's.

Worse yet, that side carry battery will cause those batteries post/terminal to be just a little bit further away from the post/terminal it needs connect to. 
For me it was LIKE 1/2 INCH further, rendering that old cable to be too short. 
For reference this is one of the longer 2-0 cables that connects the Curb-side terminal to the Street-side terminal.

I did think for about a nano-second about using a cutoff tool to remove the offending side carry on the new battery, BUT NO.
And there are probably some Electrical/Mechanical engineer types on the forum, that have a simple work around which does not require a new longer cable.
I am not one of those blessed individuals, but I do try to keep my wiring mods simple, especially in and around the battery compartment.
I am also not one of those that have the hydraulic cable crimpers or a supply of the heavier cables or connectors to just make one up.

So, not to drag this out any longer...

I had a new cable made (I went with 1" longer) and all is well, it now has a slight arch to the cable, in case I end up replacing another Bright Way with SoB.
A bonus is, my used and maybe needed in the future cable, now resides in my used and maybe needed in the future parts box, in the dark regions of the basement. 

B~Out

 

[Geronimo John]

3 hours ago, SNY SD UP said:

And there are probably some Electrical/Mechanical engineer types on the forum, that have a simple work around which does not require a new longer cable.

At your service Sir!

Not having a picture though I am at a disadvantage.  But , I am envisionating  (Yes that is another GJ invented word) that the carry handle is a protrusion that is preventing a flank to flank fit of the batteries.  

If so can you elevate the new battery so as to allow the flanks to meet?  

GJ

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, Geronimo John said:

...I am envisionating  (Yes that is another GJ invented word)...

Yo GJ, the term "envisioning" truly suffices! That's like those who say "pre-vent-ta-tive maintenance" vs. just "pre-vent-ive." Please don't add the extra syllable! It drives me crazy when multi-million-dollar news anchors, paid so well but have not yet learned the English language, OMG.

Chris' family has an old joke. Her Dad was a staunch old-school Irishmen, and very well-educated, a surgeon for the US Army during WWII, deployed in France. Yeah, his life was real. When one of his 8 children, educated in fine Chicago Catholic schools, said the word "irregardless" he would scream "GD-it, there is no such word! What are they teaching you in school!" Then he would rustle the ice in his empty drink glass which meant go get me another (Martini)!

I got C grades in English class all through school, math & science another story. Just learned the English language little by little in business writing.

GJ, just kiddin' with you buddy! Who's going to fill my glass, guess it must be me! 🤣

[jd1923]

5 hours ago, SNY SD UP said:

...I did think for about a nano-second about using a cutoff tool to remove the offending side carry on the new battery...

Being and old school installer, I would have done this in a heartbeat! That's what mechanics do when you bring your truck or trailer to the shop. I just did something very similar when installing AGM starter batteries in our TV that were a little larger in one direction vs. the OEM lead-acid batteries. It doesn't hurt anything, really, it's only cosmetic.

Good job, as hobbyists we always strive for perfection. Glad you worked a solid solution, to which you can be proud! 🙂

[SNY SD UP]

If so can you elevate the new battery so as to allow the flanks to meet? (GJ)

I did not try that as i did not want to put any undue pressure or strain on the top cover of the battery.

I will look at it tomorrow.

[Geronimo John]

14 hours ago, jd1923 said:

add the extra syllable!

Ok we are not PHD English majors, or million dollar news anchors.  But we are generally into efficiency and math.

Envisionating is concocted of two words:  Envision and Creating.  Typed these words require 21 key strokes. Envionsionating only requires 15 key strokes.  So it meets your goal of less vs. more.  

Gotcha!   🙂

 

[Geronimo John]

14 hours ago, SNY SD UP said:

I did not try that as i did not want to put any undue pressure or strain on the top cover of the battery.

Personally I would more likely have whacked off the tab as you were pondering.    

[SNY SD UP]

added a picture for those that may be challenged with "envisionating".  🙃 

I will monitor as to how well they travel together.  Do they rub each other the WRONG way.
If I see issues, I may end up cutting off the handle tabs.
However, as a non-engineer type, I am a little (okay a LOT) hesitant in cutting off the white tabs that are part of the exterior case.
Especially if that were to weaken/compromise the sealed exterior case that keeps the 'acid' contained inside.

B~OUT

 

 

 

[jd1923]

@SNY SD UP I’d say you’re done. Looks like all 4 batteries are sitting flat. You already made the cable change. Right is OK. 🙂

[SeaDawg]

The bigger question is: how well will one new lead acid battery play with three older batteries? Usually,  the battery bank will only charge to the level of oldest/weakest battery.

What happened to the 4th that you had to replace it?. How old are the other three?

[SNY SD UP]

46 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

The bigger question is: how well will one new lead acid battery play with three older batteries? Usually,  the battery bank will only charge to the level of oldest/weakest battery.

What happened to the 4th that you had to replace it?. How old are the other three?

Sherry/Paul,

The original build ones were replaced two seasons ago, by Oliver as they began to leak creating a strong Sulphur smell throughout the trailer.  When i examined them, a couple were also VERY HOT.  I was home by then and removed all from the OTT, sat them on the driveway, and it took a while (hours in the shade) for them to cool down.

Last year on our trip to AK, one of those recently replaced by Oliver started to do the same, leak, Sulphur smell, but not hot. 
We were in Watson Lake at the time, I found the local NAPA and we replaced it with a NAPA Battery as they had in stock and we continued on our trek. 
    (it was a deep cycle marine SLA, group 24, but i believe the 'cranking amps were a little less than the Oliver one it replaced.)  I will check tomorrow.
On our way home, towards the end of last year's trip I noticed the NAPA was leaking and it was more of a puddled gel type of leak.  I believed it was due to the roads we were on in the YT & NWT.
So, yesterday I now replaced the NAPA with an Interstate of the same type. 
Above when I say, "Same Type", that is to say, 'Deep Cycle Marine, SLA, Group 24, Cranking Amps 81-82'.

One of my questions is, on the ZAMP, the 'Batt Type' should be 'AGM' correct?

Apologies to @jd1923 & @Geronimo John, for not mentioning the background earlier, as the thread was on Cable length, not on root cause of the Battery issues.

We leave AGAIN for Alaska on Monday the 10th.  Just a different route than last year.

B~OUT,

 

[topgun2]

So - 

That's 5 or 6 batteries replaced within 4 years - all due to the same type of issue?  Even if the batteries were bouncing around in the compartment this seems a bit much to me.

Bill

[Geronimo John]

Bill's spot on.   The odds are that you have an overcharging issue.  Combine that with SeaDawg's statement I think applies to your situation. 

Conventional wisdom is when one goes bad, replace them all. 

This logic is based upon differences in internal resistance of the four batteries.  The "outsider"  (I.E. New One)  of the family certainly will NOT have the same résistance as the rest of the family.  As such no telling where the charge energy will be going.  But it will certainly not be equally between the family members.  Each time one of the family members will over heat and die

From this picture, it is hard to tell if your battery cells are serviceable:  

 

Since you have tried at least twice now and the problem repeats:  

A.  If your cells can be tested, get a hygrometer and test the acid strength.  It is a direct indicator of the cell health.

B.  Provide close study of the current being provided by your Converter during the charging process. 

If the above is not possible, and I were leaving for a long trip, I would replace them all, fully charge, and then look at the draw down when being stressed by known amp draws.  But be very aware that any Lead Acid/AGM battery should never be allowed below 40%. For many that's 11.7 volts.  But check with your new battery mfg.

But first, you may want to take a deep breath, get two beverages of choice, and take a deep dive into  the attached Battery DIY document.  It's only 12 pages long.  My apologies for not indicating where I "borrowed" the article, but it is worth a read for those still not yet .... Lithoized.   (Gotch JD!  there's another one!) 🙂  

GJ

DIY - Batteries - More Than You Ever Wanted To Know.docx

 

 

 

[jd1923]

No time for more design or installation changes, Maggie & Bryan are leaving on a 2nd go on a life trip to Alaska in just 3 days. Godspeed and God bless you, your family, and your upcoming travels! We're here, stand-by to help virtually always.

If your battery bank charges up to 12.8V +/- just stop worrying about this. Go enjoy your travels. I can't wait to see your travel posts, my new friend.

Yes, it would have been better to but a pair or four, but worse case you can simply buy lead acid batteries at any store along the way, and they may be cheaper given the exchange rate today in CAD$. Have a wonderful trip!

On my list is AK and ND, add ME and these are the only 3 states in the continental US I have not yet traveled. See you one day soon! 😂

[SNY SD UP]

Thanks to all.

This is something i obviously did not think thru.  Basically, what is the root cause of my battery failures.

We will head out as is, we know there are a lot of 'Canadian Tire' or 'Battery Type' stores as we travel on Canada-1 from Regina to Calgary, before heading north.

We will monitor, and sort it out on the way or when we return.

I will try a few 'Where's Ollie' entries in our future.

No need to make it to Faro, Mayo, Keno City, Minto Bridge, Inuvik, Tuktoyaktuk, been there done that.

As Usual, Kind regards to all who asked the right questions (saw the cable issue as a 'Red Herring' even though it was the Black/Neg one...), showed Concern & even offered up 'Reading Material'.

B~Out, 

...New Moniker to come, BMW (Bryan Maggie & Willis aka Kamper Kat).

 

Edited June 7 by SNY SD UP

[Mike and Carol]

8 hours ago, SNY SD UP said:

I will try a few 'Where's Ollie' entries in our future.

Bryan, have a great trip!  Look forward to some pictures of your adventures.  Be safe - Mike

[ChrisMI]

16 hours ago, SNY SD UP said:

So, yesterday I now replaced the NAPA with an Interstate of the same type. 
Above when I say, "Same Type", that is to say, 'Deep Cycle Marine, SLA, Group 24, Cranking Amps 81-82'.

One of my questions is, on the ZAMP, the 'Batt Type' should be 'AGM' correct?

 

I’m not sure what your normal usage cycle looks like.  However, there is a good chance your other three batteries are not in ideal condition.  In this type of setup most of your charging/usage current will come from your new battery.  To keep this new battery healthy you should probably keep your reserve capacity usage to 30 ish amps, any more than that and you will be pushing the new battery. To keep the new battery (IMO interstate batteries are quality) from self distrusting on your trip I would check the water level half way through the trip (disconnect negative cable for a while before you open the caps).  You will be cooking your new battery and it’s imperative the water is replenished.  

I would leave the Zamp controller in AGM mode even though you have wet cell batteries.  I’m afraid the failing batteries might trick the controller into an equalize mode.

I would limit the usage of your inverter for high current appliances. 

I would disable your on board battery charger and rely on the Zamp. 

Edit:

Having said all that if I was leaving on a long trip I’d drive to Costco or similar and buy an identical interstate battery and ditch the three brightway units.  That along with limited inverter usage would give you a worry free setup for minimal investment. 

Edited June 7 by ChrisMI

[Geronimo John]

2 hours ago, ChrisMI said:

Having said all that if I was leaving on a long trip I’d drive to Costco or similar and buy an identical interstate battery and ditch the three brightway units. That along with limited inverter usage would give you a worry free setup for minimal investment. 

YES!  Ditto. 

GJ

[Ronbrink]

On 6/6/2024 at 3:36 PM, SeaDawg said:

The bigger question is: how well will one new lead acid battery play with three older batteries?

 

On 6/6/2024 at 5:35 PM, topgun2 said:

That's 5 or 6 batteries replaced within 4 years - all due to the same type of issue?  Even if the batteries were bouncing around in the compartment this seems a bit much to me.

 

On 6/6/2024 at 8:52 PM, Geronimo John said:

Bill's spot on.   The odds are that you have an overcharging issue.  Combine that with SeaDawg's statement I think applies to your situation. 

Conventional wisdom is when one goes bad, replace them all. 

 

On 6/6/2024 at 10:41 PM, jd1923 said:

Yes, it would have been better to but a pair or four,

 

23 hours ago, ChrisMI said:

if I was leaving on a long trip I’d drive to Costco or similar and buy an identical interstate battery and ditch the three brightway units.

@SNY SD UP, take heed to these words of wisdom; oftentimes cost saving measures are our demise! Safe travels!