Audi Q7 without air suspension as tow vehicle for Elite II?

[Emerson]

 

I have read a few posts about using the Audi Q7 as a tow vehicle and learned NOT to use a WD hitch. Thanks!  A few posts are from folks being very happy towing an Elite II with the Q7.  It wasn’t clear to me if those Q7s had the air suspension or not.  Mine does not.

I'd like to know how much the Audi will squat and if it will be too much.  I am assuming that it will be fine as the specifications allow for a 770 lbs tongue weight AND specify to not use a WD hitch. Over years of towing with different vehicles, I have adopted the rule to not exceed 80% of the vehciles capabilities.  That SHOULD work out, but seems close for a moderately loaded Elite II.

We are planning on an Oliver Legacy Elite II and our current vehicle is a 2017 Audi Q7.  If the Q7 would be troublesome, I would delay the trailer and get a new tow vehicle first.

As an aside, I have used my Q7 with the Andersen hitch to tow a 4,500 lbs snowmobile trailer and it towed like a dream.  I am not sure what my tongue weight was, but that trailer had most of the cargo weight forward of its axles.

One comment, if I may, as an attempt to answer a concern I read:

I fully accept that certain advanced features (e.g. Adaptive Cruise Control, ACC) cannot work as the system cannot correctly determine what sort of beast the SUV is towing (brakes, weight, etc.). Many luxury brands have a tendency to overcomplicate features to add sophistication. I am using ACC a lot and together with other features, it approaches self-driving.  I would think that the moment I plug a trailer into the towing harness, the unknowns are such that the Q7 for liability reasons turns them off.  I am guessing that SUVs are used more often close to their limits and things would be different for trucks designed to tow, HD trucks in particular.  Just a thought. 

[ScottyGS]

There have been folks who have towed an LE2 with a Q7.  I don't know of any that reported problems or issues.  

That being said...   I personally would not tow an LE2 with a Q7.  I don't believe it would be able to stay within safe limits.  

But...  You can start with the payload number found on the sticker on the driver side door.   Take that number and subtract 650 lbs for the tongue weight of the trailer.  Then subtract the weight of the occupants and whatever gear you plan to take with you.  If you still have a positive number you can start looking for the GCVWR limit in the owners manual.  That would be the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating.  Take that number and subtract the weight of the fully loaded Audi and 7000 lbs for a fully loaded LE2.  If that number is still positive... you might could give it a shot.  But, I would still take it to a scale to see if you are still in spec for the axle load limits.   

Good Luck and let us know how you made out. 

Scotty 

 

[SeaDawg]

There are a number of q7 owners here. Try a search, and pm. Some may chime in.

Here's one thread. Try using audio q7  in search

We picked up our Elite II 2 1/2 weeks ago and have about 2500 miles towing it so far with our Q7.  We have air shocks so we aren’t using any load levelers (which Audi says not to use).  I’m very pleased with towing our Oliver behind the Q7.  We have averaged 14 miles per gallon and it has completely adequate power and braking capabilities.  We have been on a wide variety of roads from TN to Newfoundland with some gusty wind conditions.  I have never felt like I needed more car at anytime.  I do plan on getting some mud flaps for the rear wheels on the Q7, hopefully that will keep the trailer a little cleaner.  Hopefully this will help a little if considering using a Q7 to pull your trailer.
 
https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/9303-using-an-audi-q7-as-tow-vehicle-report/?do=findComment&comment=92434

Edited October 12 by SeaDawg

[Mike and Carol]

My main concern with the Q7 is cargo capacity and total weight.  Run the numbers with what you will be carrying for camping and see how close you are to the Q7’s limit.  We’re big Audi fans, bought our first new Audi in 1976!  Many Audi’s later were now driving an SQ5.  Mike

[Emerson]

1 hour ago, Mike and Carol said:

My main concern with the Q7 is cargo capacity and total weight.  Run the numbers with what you will be carrying for camping and see how close you are to the Q7’s limit.  We’re big Audi fans, bought our first new Audi in 1976!  Many Audi’s later were now driving an SQ5.  Mike

Thanks Mike.  For our travel, the Gross Vehicle Rating, GCVW, tow rating, and allowed hitch weight should be no issue.  However, we do not have the above-mentioned "Air shocks," and those could improve the experience significantly.  By the numbers, we would be well below the limits, but I wonder about the experience.   I do think that most Audi Q7 drivers here have the air suspension.  The search continues. 

[topgun2]

It would be helpful if you could supply additional information as to which Q7 you have.

Towing capacity for the Q7 ranges from 4,400 to 7,700 pounds depending on year and options.

If your Q7 is at or very close to the upper capacity limit you could be OK for most towing situations.  

Bill

Edited October 12 by topgun2

[ScubaRx]

I found this rather exhausting but expansive post by ang934 on an Audi Forum. Perhaps it will provide you with some useful information. Although personally, I think using any CAR as a tow vehicle for an Elite II is a particularly bad idea, there are those here that will tell (and have told) you exactly what you want to hear. Although I could go on ad nauseam with solid information as to why you should not do what you are about to do, I doubt it would make any difference. So, give it your best shot. Good Luck...

I’m new to the Audi club, and bought my Audi over other cars for one big reason, to tow a travel trailer. The Audi has a high tow capacity for the size vehicle. The BMW X5, and Jeep Grand Cherokee are up there as well. I do not own a trailer quite yet, but will be getting one soon.

So now that I have the Q7, next was the travel trailer, but how big could it be? I thought that this would be easy to figure out, but it wasn’t. I did some research, spoke to experts, read the owner’s manual, and read other AudiWorld posts. I was finding lots of misinformation on AudoWorld and other places, so I decided to write down what I learned here. There are lots of falsehoods out there, and I wanted to have this info in one place. My goal was following EVERY Audi requirement to the letter and NOT second-guessing what they say. In German style, their requirements are VERY precise. My car is a 2019 Q7 Prestige with 3.0 supercharged engine with a factory installed trailer hitch. If you add a third-party trailer hitch, your weight capacity might be less, but it is NEVER more. Note that the the Audi Q7 2.0 liter is rated to tow much less than the 3.0 liter V6 version.

So, let’s get started. Let’s start with the car side. Just how much stuff and people can you keep in the car when towing a travel trailer? The Audi manual recommends to “Store objects in the vehicle luggage compartment, if possible. The vehicle should always carry the heaviest possible load and the trailer should have the lightest possible load.” But what is that load? If you open the driver’s door, there is a sticker on your car that gives a capacity for “cargo and passengers.” On my car its 1367 lb., but keep in mind, this is cargo, passengers, AND trailer tongue weight. The maximum tongue weight for my Audi is 770 lb. and Audi recommend I get as close to that weight as possible, and note the type of suspension does NOT matter. So, let’s say I start with the 1367 lb. limit, and subtract 770 lb. tongue weight. This leaves 597 lb. for passengers & cargo. Before adding any cargo, add your passenger weight. You may have 7 seats, but with a trailer, be VERY careful on cargo weight. For this example, I’m going to assume 597 lb. in passenger and cargo weight. Three or four people alone could get there. Or two people and some cargo.

Now let’s move on to the trailer. I got my 597 lb. of passengers and cargo that are ready to go camping. Audi says the trailer receiver you pick should be NO MORE than 6.193” from the locking pin to the center of the ball in length. (Who says Germans aren’t precise.) I searched everywhere, and there was only one receiver that met this requirement. Not surprisingly, it’s the one Audi sells for $70, so I bought it. Whatever you buy, make sure the ball and receiver are rated AT LEAST 7,700 lb. The Audi one is. But a problem, the Audi one comes with a 2” ball, and almost all travel trailers today use a 2 5/16th ball, so you need to switch the ball. Walmart and Home Depot have these, but remember you need a 1” shank. First you need to remove the 2” ball on the Audi receiver. Place it in the car hitch receiver but turned 90 degrees from normal. Then get a VERY large 1 ½” wrench to remove it. Warning, Audi puts this on VERY tight.

Before you put on the new ball, we need to talk a bit about trailer stabilizers. I recommend one and there is a bracket you can get that fits between the ball and receiver to connect one, BUT it requires a ball with a longer shank. If you use it, get a 2 5/16” ball, 1” shank that is at least 2.4” long. This is tricky to find, but it can be found. While we are here, I should mention the the “load distributing trailer hitch.” Audi say NOT to use one, so DON’T use one. Period. If you don’t like that, argue with Audi, not me. It should be noted that two companies (at least) make aftermarket trailer hitches for the Q7, Draw-Tite and Curt, and NEITHER are rated for a load distributing hitch. DO NOT USE ONE, no matter how smart you think you are for doing so.

If your trailer is over 3000 lb. you also need a brake controller. There are three types you can use. One connects to an under-dash connector, one fits between the trailer and car and connects to your phone via Bluetooth, and one mounts to the trailer and communicates with a wireless receiver connected to your 12V socket. Your choice. I bought the trailer mounted one.

OK finally on to the trailer. How heavy can it be? 7,770 lb. right? Smiley face. NOPE. Your capacity is 7,700 lb. but this includes the weight of cargo and passengers in the car. For us this is 597 lb. (Do NOT add the tongue weight here.) You have 7,700 lb. – 597 lb. = 7,103 lb. and a tongue weight of 770 lb. OK off you go to buy that 7,103 lb. trailer, but NOT YET. Audi says for ever 3,200 ft. altitude over 3,200 ft. where you tow, you need to reduce towing capacity by 10% (770 lb.) This one is tricky. If you are only on the East Coast, 3,200 ft. elevation is fine. But in the West, that is a joke. So you will have to figure your own case, but I set an arbitrary altitude of 6,400 ft. NOT TO EXCEED, which means my trailer can be 7,700 lb. – 597 lb. – 770 lb. = 6,333 lb. I’m going to round DOWN to 6,000 lb. That’s not a bad trailer. Maybe 22’ or 23’

So, lets try to understand trailer weight. There is a dry weight, the net carrying capacity weight, and the trailer GVWR, which is what the frame and wheels of the trailer can support. Dry weight + net carrying capacity is always equal to or under the GVWR weight. To be safe, I recommend for your GVWR to be under 6,333 lb. but technically its dry weight plus what you have put in it, including water tanks. Water weight 8 lb. per gallon. Again, Audi also recommends that you keep your tongue weight as high as possible without exceeding the 770 lb. limit. Tongue weigh given for trailers usually does NOT include propane weight or the weight of batteries. Anyway, just buy your AirStream Flying Cloud 23FB and away you go…. Yipee!! Smiley face.

So to summarize, watch your car weight limits. You can not have more than 3 or 4 people in your car with a trailer, we’ll unless they are supermodels and weigh very little. If that is the case, have all you want as long as your wife doesn't object. Next, add a 2 5/16” trailer ball and trailer stabilizer if you like. Finally, subtract your car carrying weight from your trailer capacity, and derate for high-altitude driving. Be safe and figure these weight loads yourself. The trailer dealer may lie to you to sell you a bigger trailer with bigger profit. And be safe.

I hope this is helpful, and if something I stated here is incorrect, please point it out, but please do not tell me how a load distributing trailer hitch changes all this despite the fact Audi clearly says to NOT use one. Your fight with them, not me.

Last edited by ang934; 08-06-2019 at 10:36 AM. Reason: Grammer/Spelling

Later, in the thread in response to another member who stumbles through several weight calculations and absurdly thinks one could, “...tow the (Airstream) Flying Cloud 27FB with no issues...Tell me if you think my math is wrong...” he added:

I think OK, but definitely on the upper limit. Be careful if you are carrying 4 or 5 people in the car as well. That adds to the weight.

I wanted add to my original post on some hardware you will need. If you follow Audi's recommendation, it doesn't allow much wiggle room.

First on the receiver you need, Audi specifies a maximum length between the ball and receiver pin. Unfortunately this is shorter than any I could find anywhere, so I had to buy the one Audi sells for $70. I believe its made by Curt just for Audi, but if you can find it elsewhere, by all means get it. Unless you want to do LOTS of searching, buy the Audi receiver. Now you also need to change the ball since Audi provides a 2" ball which only works for small trailers. You need a 2 5/16" ball. The on that will work is the CURT 40039 Chrome Trailer Hitch Ball. Finally you REALLY should add sway control, and remember weight distributing trailer hitches ARE NOT allowed. (More on this later.) To add sway control you'll need the Draw-Tite 26003 Sway Control Adapter Bracket. This goes between the receiver and the ball. I used JB Weld epoxy to keep these two together. DON'T get any on the trailer ball threads. The reason for this is to keep the force of the sway control from moving the bracket and loosening the ball. I have heard of people welding the the bracket to the receiver also.

And the weight distribution hitch, I know people are in love these, but Audi says NO, DO NOT use one. As it turns Audi does know what they are talking about. The way the trailer hitch fastens to the car in a vertical fashion basically eliminates the need for this type of hitch. It also makes this type of hitch dangerous to use because the weight distribution hitch puts added twisting forces on the ball and the hitch could break off. In end this is a win-win. Weight distribution hitches are heavy, expensive, and a pain, and Audi eliminated their need for you. Again DO NOT use one, but adding sway control, like the CURT 17200 Black Trailer Anti-Sway Bar Control, or similar is probably a very good idea.

I have also come across a few electronic sway controls. They basically connect to your trailer brakes, and apply the trailer brakes when there is sway. They look pretty nice, but slightly pricey, but overall look to be an easy solution.

Last edited by ang934; 09-06-2019 at 07:57 AM.

 

[Patriot]

55 minutes ago, ScubaRx said:

I think using any CAR as a tow vehicle for an Elite II is a particularly bad idea, there are those here that will tell (and have told) you exactly what you want to hear.

I could not agree more with @ScubaRx. Especially after traversing 10% grades with our TV and Oliver fully loaded and ready to camp. @Emerson if you ever intend to traverse Wolf Creek Pass at 8% grade, or Teton Pass at a 10% grade you will wish you had a whole lot more TV. An engine brake or Jake brake is a beautiful thing. The Big Horn Mountains on our way to Devils Tower are not quite as steep a grade or as high,  but still have dramatic inclines and declines. Everyone has to roll with what their own comfort level is. I can say that we never ever had any concerns in the long steep descents in many of the mountain ranges we traversed. Our 6.7 diesel was up for the job and the righ tool for the job. There was no tail wagging the dog with our rig and we never had to pull off because of hot brakes. I would add that using any CAR or SUV would not leave me with a comfort level on the above mountain passes we traveled on. Some of the passes have hot brakes checks as well. If you are towing an OLEII with a car or SUV you could be asked to pull over and let your brakes cool before proceeding down the steep mountain descents. Then factor in the weight you will have loaded in your Audi and your OLE2. Based on our travel experience I cannot recommend an Audi Q7 for a tov vehicle for an OLE2. 

Safe Travels! 

[Emerson]

Thanks everyone.  

[ScottyGS]

2 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

So to summarize, watch your car weight limits. You can not have more than 3 or 4 people in your car with a trailer, we’ll unless they are supermodels and weigh very little. 

One very important point is missing from this article.  How fast will the Q7 trailer combination go with the supermodels and can your wife outrun it?  

Enquiring minds want to know...

Scotty

[jd1923]

On 10/11/2024 at 10:35 AM, Emerson said:

I have read a few posts about using the Audi Q7 as a tow vehicle…

What engine? Issue with any SUV is storage. Not much in the Oliver and very little in the Audi. Depends on your style of camping. We like to travel not counting on a picnic table, fire ring…

[John Dorrer]

Another Owner had an Audi 7 and destroyed their rear tires. The had rear sag. Not a good choice for a tow vehicle.