Water Leak?

[jd1923]

Out on a camp this week. Left home after positive tests of our new waste valves, no issues there.

First night at Lost Dutchman after filling the Fresh Water Tank (FWT) all was good, not a drop for 24+ hours. Second night, parked at a friend’s house near Tucson, in their driveway we had an obvious leak out the curbside rear, but as we moved at different levels it would leak at any weep hole but front left, TG!

Y’all know for sure, I’m the working sort but not during the time when we are away enjoying life. So we only turned on the water pump when needed. I tested the City Water connection, same thing, which means it’s not in the connection.

What do you think would be the cause of the leak. My hope is it’s obviously and easy to reach. We’ll be home tomorrow. I’ll put the beds in the house and run a fan down there to dry things out! Good news RH here is <10% so no mildew. Will let you know what I find but would like to know if any of you had this experience?

[Mike and Carol]

John, I had a small leak that caused drips from the curbside rear.  With the water pump off and no city water I could see no leak under the bed in that area.  Turn the water pump on and I found a leak (one drip every few seconds) from the T joint coming out of the hot water tank.  It was a plastic joint and many miles of traveling obviously caused a very small crack at the bottom of the joint.  I replaced it with a brass fitting and no issues since.  There’s not a lot of room down there to maneuver tools and I had a sore back after I got it fixed.  A blue paper towel helped in locating the drip.  Good luck!  Mike

[Geronimo John]

1 hour ago, jd1923 said:

What do you think would be the cause of the leak.

LoL.  The world is your Oyster on that one.

Hope you find it and its an easy fix.

GJ

[jd1923]

Thanks Mike. This leak could be of my doing when replacing manual valves with electric 18 months and 50 nights out earlier, but not likely. I will figure it out soon and let y’all know when I know!

We had two broken frame welds upon purchase, but I will say, two years and 64 nights out camping, this is the first failure in our quite wonderful, very well built OTT! 😂

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, Mike and Carol said:

from the T joint coming out of the hot water tank.

Again, thank you Mike!

I would have not looked there first, or second and it’s so down low on the floor. I did have it closed for two months since I had winterized late November and just turned it back on the day before the leak occurred. Do you believe in coincidence? Let you know in a few days, TY!

[Patriot]

@jd1923 Check ALL your white compression fittings. And like Mike said a blue paper towel is your friend and will really help identify the culprit.

Before, after and even periodically while traveling I always make it a point to pull the hatches and check the compression fittings especially the ones that are in the very belly of the hull. Vibration is no friend to these compression fittings. 

Once in a while I will find that one or two not completely loose but do need snugging up by hand only. I also carry a shark bite and pex tubing repair kit. Good to hear that those stainless steel “scuppers” are doing their job allowing the water exit the belly of the beast. 

 

Edited March 1 by Patriot

[Geronimo John]

4 hours ago, Patriot said:

I also carry a shark bite and pex tubing repair kit.

That's a good idea.  Can you share what you have in the kit so we can replicate it?

Thanks

GJ

 

[Patriot]

42 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

That's a good idea.  Can you share what you have in the kit so we can replicate it?

Thanks

GJ

 

GJ, You bet!

My kit is pretty basic and simple. Several shark bite fittings, a pex cutter from Harbor freight, two 3’ lengths of blue and red pex which I store in our Olivers closet. Naturally pex tubing can be picked up at Lowe’s, or most hardware stores in short 3’ lengths along with the below shark bite fittings and pex cutter.

I just never like to be “flapping” if I can prep a little and fix it myself. Or even better, help someone else out. Two is one and one is none.👍🏻

Shark bite fittings https://www.amazon.com/s

https://www.harborfreight.com/finger-release-ratcheting-pvc-pipe-cutter-62588.

or here-

https://www.amazon.com/Bates-Choice-Pro-pipe-cutters/dp/B09BVXZBLN/ref=sr

 

Edited March 1 by Patriot

[topgun2]

27 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

That's a good idea.  Can you share what you have in the kit so we can replicate it?

Some years ago we had a discussion of this here on the Forum (I'm too lazy now to go look for it).

In addition to what Patriot has above, a kit should include at least two shark bite 1/2 inch 90 degree elbows, two or three straight 1/2 inch shark bite connectors and one or two shark bite "plugs" to be used to cap off a water line.  One might also include a small piece of 120 to 200 grit sandpaper for smoothing the exterior/interior edges of the pex.

For those unfamiliar with shark bite fittings - these allow you to simply push them on (i.e. no clamping required).  There was a whole discussion as to the appropriateness of shark bite fitting for RV travel.  Even though I've never had to use my "emergency plumbing kit" it would be my intent to replace the shark bite fittings with something more permanent once I arrive back home.

Bill

p.s.  I put all of the shark bite pieces, sandpaper, pipe cutter etc. in a plastic bag and then attached that bag to the lengths of pex with tape.  Then I placed that "bundle" down in the area below the water pump.

[ScubaRx]

Pex tools used to be very expensive. Now for about the price of 3 or 4 shark bite fittings you can buy a complete set of tools and crimps from Amazon. https://a.co/d/fMcntAT
 

Edited March 1 by ScubaRx

[Geronimo John]

You guys may find this unusual, but our Hull 342 (2018 Model Year) has had zero plumbing problems. Now heading to our 8th season I think it best that I get some interest in  understanding and having some organic repair capability.  Especially when off the grid.  

The two systems (SB Fittings) and Clamping Rings appear to be different approaches for repair of PEX. 

Which years use which system in our Oliver's?  

Pro/Cons of each?

Going lightly and conservatively on spare parts is my approach.  Which would suit us the best?

Thanks

GJ

PS:  Can  assume all our Ollie plumbing is 1/2" pex?

 

Edited March 2 by Geronimo John

[mossemi]

1 hour ago, Geronimo John said:

Pro/Cons of each?

Going lightly and conservatively on spare parts is my approach.  Which would suit us the best?

Thanks

GJ

PS:  Can  assume all our Ollie plumbing is 1/2" pex?

 

I believe Oliver's only have 1/2" PEX, but I’m not assuming anything.  I only carry 1/2" spare parts and pipe.  I carry a SharkBite 90*, coupling, tee, cap.  I also carry a PEX pipe cutter and a SharkBite fitting removal tool.  A word of caution about SharkBite fittings in general, some of their fittings are reusable and others are single use, so pay attention to which you purchase.   Although I have complete confidence in SharkBite fittings, I have never had one fail while in service.  I have had installation failures of my own making.  So read all documentation available and follow the methods outlined within and all should be good.

I do have PEX crimp rings and crimpers at home and they are very hard to use for repairs below decks.  So I don’t have any problem leaving SharkBite fittings in service, that I installed in an emergency.

The last bit of advice that I have is, buy a reusable SharkBite PEX fitting and some PEX pipe and get busy practicing.

Mossey

 

[Galileo]

9 hours ago, topgun2 said:

For those unfamiliar with shark bite fittings - these allow you to simply push them on (i.e. no clamping required).  There was a whole discussion as to the appropriateness of shark bite fitting for RV travel.  Even though I've never had to use my "emergency plumbing kit" it would be my intent to replace the shark bite fittings with something more permanent once I arrive back home.

Though I have never used SharkBite fittings, they used to sell very well at the hardware store I used to work at - in spite of their relatively high cost.

You mention “permanent” in your comment. I’ve know of folks who used these all over their homes - including inside walls(!) That's something that would make me a little nervous. That said, people tend to regard them a permanent. 

Being “old school” - I’ve never even used PEX. Soldered copper for me. Of course, not so practical in an RV.

I don’t keep any plumbing spares so far. I guess if/when the time comes, I’ll have to hope I’m near enough to a hardware or home improvement store to get some PEX fitting, tubing, lock rings, and a crimper.

I do recall that there is a crimping tool that utilizes your existing ViseGrip pliers to supply the power. That should save you a bit of $$& over buying a stand-alone PEX crimping tool.

[Galileo]

2 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

The two systems (SB Fittings) and Clamping Rings appear to be different approaches for repair of PEX. 

Which years use which system in our Oliver's?  

Pro/Cons of each?

 

Pros of SharkBites is that aside from a tool that cuts a nice, square end on the PEX tubing, you don’t need other tools. (You can use an appropriately sized open-end wrench to depress the locking ring on a SB connector should you need to remove it.)

Cons - high cost. 
 

Conventional PEX connectors require a specialized crimping tool - though one that lets you use a ViseGrip Plier as the oomph will save you a few $$$ over a dedicated PEX crimping tool.

If you don’t get a good, leak-free connection with a conventional PEX crimped fitting, you have to cut it off and start over. You can often salvage the connector by carefully cutting off the crimp ring. 

For a “lean” repair kit, you could probably get by with a 1/2” tee, elbow, and two straight connectors and a couple of feet of tubing. I haven’t priced SharkBites lately, but I’d guess that the above - plus the tubing cutter - could be had for about $50. (I remember SBs costing $10-$12 each for 1/2” ones - but that was two or three years ago.)

You’d probably spend that much on a decent PEX crimping tool by itself. 

As someone else already mentioned, installing PEX “below deck” in cramped quarters can be a bear. 

(I think I just talked myself into SharkBites!)

[Snackchaser]

Another  "pro" for the SharkBite fittings is that they have a larger internal diameter.  They go over the PEX pipe, where-as the crimp-on fittings insert into the pipe creating a slight restriction.  

Both types of fitting work fine, but I'd recommend getting a crimp ring cutting tool.  They are inexpensive, and they make it easy to salvage crimped on fittings.

[Galileo]

3 hours ago, Snackchaser said:

Another  "pro" for the SharkBite fittings is that they have a larger internal diameter.  They go over the PEX pipe, where-as the crimp-on fittings insert into the pipe creating a slight restriction.  

Quite true. Never thought of that. I suppose if optimum flow rates are important to you, then this would be a factor. 

I would opt for ball valves in my land-based plumbing for this reason. I was always a little surprised that conventional valves had such small, restrictive passages. 

I’d bet that with all the fittings, valves, check valves, pump, accumulator, etc - there are already a ton of restrictions in Ollie’s plumbing system. 

[jd1923]

8 hours ago, Galileo said:

I suppose if optimum flow rates are important to you, then this would be a factor. 

I would opt for ball valves in my land-based plumbing for this reason. I was always a little surprised that conventional valves had such small, restrictive passages.

It's important to me. I've done a lot to improve water pressure and GPM flow rates.

I replaced all OEM valves with motorized ball valves with true 12mm ID. The OTT installed valves were 1/4" ID (see picture, drill bits shown are 1/4" and 3/8"). Every 90 (too many of these installed) and ALL PEX crimped connectors have 3/8" ID.

Newer hulls do not have the 1/4" ID brass valves but instead more of the other valves shown center of picture with 3/8" ID. The Oliver plumbing system is then a 3/8" system. If they had used SharkBite everywhere it would be a true 1/2" system.

Edited March 2 by jd1923

[Galileo]

34 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

It's important to me. I've done a lot to improve water pressure and GPM flow rates.

I replaced all OEM valves with motorized ball valves with true 12mm ID. The OTT installed valves were 1/4" ID (see picture, drill bits shown are 1/4" and 3/8"). Every 90 (too many of these installed) and ALL PEX crimped connectors have 3/8" ID.

Newer hulls do not have the 1/4" ID brass valves but instead more of the other valves shown center of picture with 3/8" ID. The Oliver plumbing system is then a 3/8" system. If they had used SharkBite everywhere it would be a true 1/2" system.

I always have to laugh when I see 1/2” or even 3/4” copper pipe going to a (land based) bathroom or kitchen sink - and then the supply lines are 1/4” going through valves with tiny water passages. 

When we had the farm, I replaced every hose Bibb with a 3/4” ball valve a GH adapter. When I wanted water, I wanted it NOW! 😋Nobody wants to stand and wait while a 5-gallon bucket fills at less than the maximum possible flow rate.

[Snackchaser]

1 hour ago, jd1923 said:

It's important to me. I've done a lot to improve water pressure and GPM flow rates.

Although I’m not sure how much difference it makes, maximum flow is important to me as well.

With all the plumbing modifications I’ve made, I did’t want to introduce too many more restrictions in the system.  I actually used 3/4” motorized ball valves, and SharkBite fittings wherever practical.  I also heated and bent the PEX pipe instead of 90 deg. fittings whenever possible, and used 90 deg. plastic sweep clips to maintain the bend.  Every little bit helps IMO!

[Galileo]

3 minutes ago, Snackchaser said:

Although I’m not sure how much difference it makes, maximum flow is important to me as well.

With all the plumbing modifications I’ve made, I did’t want to introduce too many more restrictions in the system.  I actually used 3/4” motorized ball valves, and SharkBite fittings wherever practical.  I also heated and bent the PEX pipe instead of 90 deg. fittings whenever possible, and used 90 deg. plastic sweep clips to maintain the bend.  Every little bit helps IMO!

I honestly haven’t done much at all with PEX even though it seems it’s the “in” water supply standard. I’m a soldered copper kinda guy. I like your practice of heating and bending instead of elbows, and I have seen a couple of “sweep” brackets in the Oliver holding PEX bends in place. 

When you installed the motorized valves, did you find a way to have a button or switch to select “Normal/Boondock/Winterize”  and control all four valves automatically? 😋

[jd1923]

15 minutes ago, Snackchaser said:

Although I’m not sure how much difference it makes, maximum flow is important to me as well.

This pic shows the motorized ball valves I installed. More important to flow is the upgrade to the water pump! This Made-in-USA pump is 5 PSI higher and 0.4 GPM greater flow rate which is a positive yet conservative upgrade. I believe the variable speed motor also provides for greater flow rates when in use.

This pump should last forever (can run dry for hours) but it's not near as quiet in my application as they claim. It could be my steel bracket holding the valves acts as a sound conduit. I should add softer rubber footings when I get under there this week. I could also insulate this bracket and the basement cover that sits above this area.

I certainly hope to fix the leak before getting into additional mods. I truly hope the leak is obvious and easy to reach! 🤣

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, Galileo said:

I always have to laugh when I see 1/2” or even 3/4” copper pipe going to a (land based) bathroom or kitchen sink - and then the supply lines are 1/4” going through valves with tiny water passages.

And don't forget to remove the government regulated restrictor in the head of the faucet! When I used to travel for business a lot, I had a wrench and pliers in my suitcase so I could remove the restrictor from the hotel shower head. Got a decent shower instead of the designed trickle! Later I would nicely reinstall their device, prior to check-out! 🤣

[Snackchaser]

26 minutes ago, Galileo said:

When you installed the motorized valves, did you find a way to have a button or switch to select “Normal/Boondock/Winterize”  and control all four valves automatically? 😋

 

Oh Yea, you're jerking my chain now!  I'll take the bait though😂   I used a 4 -position rotary switch with LED position indicators and automatic return to normal... proud to say. 

[Galileo]

5 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

And don't forget to remove the government regulated restrictor in the head of the faucet!

You mean that rubber washer with the 1/16” hole in it?

So long as we understand that government regulations are axes and not scalpels we’ll be fine. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to reduce toilet tank size to half - and then have to flush it twice…

Not to throw the baby out with the bath water of course, but rushing a technology into the mainstream often is counterproductive. Like compact CFL bulbs. 

Me? I like my old kerosene lamps and wood stove!

[Galileo]

13 minutes ago, Snackchaser said:

 

Oh Yea, you're jerking my chain now!  I'll take the bait though😂   I used a 4 -position rotary switch with LED position indicators and automatic return to normal... proud to say. 

Just half yanking your chain…

I just ask because having to look at a diagram and then (properly!) position four valves has tripped me up before. Last winter I mistakenly configured the valves to “Boondocking” when really wanted “winterize”. I wondered where a gallon of RV antifreeze went before I figured it out….

For me, I don’t change those valves often enough to want to motorize them - even if it is a royal pain in the butt to lift up the access panel, anti-condensation mat, seat cushion, and 3” mattress topper (king bed) to get to the valves.

Edited March 2 by Galileo
Autocorrect: PLEASE stop “helping” me!