Epoc Lithium "Keep-It-Simple" Upgrade Advice

[SeaDawg]

Will Prowse posted a new video yesterday expressing disappointment in the newer v2 Epoch batteries. From his comments, the new firmware has some major issues. He failed the 48 v batteries, gave the 12v  460 a questionable pass, as it had the old firmware.

We are quite happy with our original Epoch 460, installed some time back on the boat. 

 

So, I guess I'm saying I'd be cautious about the v2 12v, until such time as Will feels they've corrected the firmware issues. He is my go-to guru for solar and batteries. And, he's the reason we bought the earlier version 460 in the first place....

Edited March 17 by SeaDawg

[jd1923]

3 hours ago, tallmandan said:

JD’s battery set up has a simple cable configuration.  I have more spaghetti in mine (photo) - guessing this is due to solar charging?  Do you not have solar, @jd1923?

I have solar and everything else, but when I did my installation I cleaned up the OEM installation. They had secondary 6 AWG cables from the solar charger and to the internal 12V DC system and I got them out of the battery bay and attached them to internal +/- buses.

Yes, you could stack them up but you have another issue. It appears your main 4/0 cables have lead automotive post-style terminals. You will need to change these to 5/16" eyelet style lugs, something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/SELTERM-Marine-Terminal-Battery-Eyelets/dp/B073FD8ZDR/
This work will require a hydraulic crimper and you would either need to do this yourself or tow your Oliver to a local trailer shop or battery store.

You could likely make the two 300s work. Disconnect all the wire ties and remove everything holding the main cables down and measure how far they come towards the battery door. If you do that, I'll measure mine to verify if it would work for you. I have a 2x4s behind the batteries and another in-between and without these the batteries would be 3" closer to the inside wall.

Your main cables come from the right (rear) side wall so the way I have mine should work for you. Yes, one 460AH battery, posts positioned in the rear would work but everything would be crammed in the rear and with the tray full out you would have to reach in above the battery with a wrench to connect the cables. They will not be exposed with the tray full open. The Epoch Essentials 460AH weighs 84 LBS and that was another reason I preferred the two 300s, because I could just barely lift one at a time.

You got me on the trailer harness wire. Our hull does not have that crazy junction box under the bath vanity. I would look for the + bus I showed you before or disconnect it at the plug as @Derek B mentioned. 

[Derek B]

4 hours ago, tallmandan said:

Feeling less confident…
Really appreciate the help from this group! Thx

For the 7 pin 12 volt connection no need to disconnect anything under the vanity. Just disconnect the black wire from the 7 pin plug itself. Disconnect and tape the wire and tuck back into plug housing. Below is example of 7 pin plug diagram and how the plug looks when disassembled. Google replacing and rv 7 pin and should find plenty of videos showing how to pull back the plug housing.

My battery compartment started out looking like yours but now looks like @jd1923. The smaller gauge wires can be brought inside the trailer by installing additional bus bars but may be more than you have in mind. For ease you can just stack multiple in same battery connections but may need longer bolts then supplied by epoch. If your 4/0 gauge connections seem short you likely have some extra length of cable of cable on inside of trailer under bed. The large 4/0 negative cable should be going directly to your inverter or a shunt if installed.  If so you can pull some of the length into battery compartment by loosing the grommet in battery bay. 

Hope this helps.

Edited March 17 by Derek B

[Derek B]

20 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

It appears your main 4/0 cables have lead automotive post-style terminals.

@tallmandan check your connection. I believe as my trailer was you have eyelet terminal connections they are just bolted to auto post style terminals due to your batteries requiring this type. 

[jd1923]

4 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

He gave the 12v 460 a questionable pass, as it had the old firmware.

Sherry, is your battery the style he showed in the video? He showed the one with Victron Comms, the more expensive battery, not the Epoch Essentials.

Mike @rideadeuce installed two Epoch 460s with Victron Comms, wonder if he has seen any issues. I remember updating firmware on ALL of my Victron products but not the 300AH Epoch Essentials. Just wired up, loaded the app to view stats, nothing else.

Go figure firmware screwing up hardware in the state of technology today. If there is ever a firmware on my Epochs, I'll just say NO like I do on my iPhone until I have to, many versions later. 

[jd1923]

2 minutes ago, Derek B said:

@tallmandan check your connection. I believe as my trailer was you have eyelet terminal connections they are just bolted to auto post style terminals due to your batteries requiring this type. 

Thanks Derek, good find! Looking closer, I believe I see three lugs below the nut. If this is what Derek had then it's likely the case. Therefore, no hydraulic crimper tool required.

[tallmandan]

@jd1923 @Derek B Thank you both for your continued help and advice.  Helpful info!

As you can tell, I'm on the edge of my comfort level doing this myself but I think I want to give it a shot.  I have one more day to decide before the Epoch sale ends.

@SeaDawg Thanks for posting the video from Will Prowse on the issues with the newer Epoch V2 460aH.  Definitely not getting that one. 

I think I'm going to order two 300aH Essential batteries and stack the multitude of wires I have in the battery bay on the primary +/- terminals as I'm not comfortable trying to reconfigure anything the way JD has.  (will source longer bolts from local hardware store)

I'd like to use this simple disconnect switch and install it on the main negative terminal.  This would give me a convenient switch for when in storage and it would also give me a bit of extension since the cable may be a bit short to reach forward in the tray.  It's rated at 275 amps. 

Is this sufficient in my application?  Any other issue with using this device or my plan in general?  Thx!

 

[jd1923]

4 hours ago, tallmandan said:

I'd like to use this simple disconnect switch and install it on the main negative terminal.  This would give me a convenient switch for when in storage and it would also give me a bit of extension since the cable may be a bit short to reach forward in the tray.  It's rated at 275 amps.

OTT and most Oliver owners have gone with a Blue Sea Systems. Given you will switch the ground, I would get the black one. This ON/OFF switch is rated 300A:
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-6008-Selector/dp/B00558LSJE/?th=1
Given your switch will just sit on top of the outside battery, I would tape it down to the top with some 3M VHB 4950 tape. 

Given you're thinking the two 300AH Epoch Essentials, your picture shows two good jumper cables that should fit like I mounted mine. One of the two shorty cables can be used to go from the negative battery post to your cut-off switch. This should add a good 6" to the main negative cable which in my installation is the furthest out.

Yes, get bolts long enough, but just long enough. There is less than 3/4" of thread in the batteries. You need enough threads to hold well but not too much to bottom out the bolt where it would not hold the cables tight. Two included bolts may fit where you would have just one cable bolted down. Two should be about 1/2" longer to hold the main cable, the jumper cable and two of the thinner 6 AWG cables. The manual calls for M10 bolts (metric) torqued to 35 Nm (25 lb-ft). I used a short 13mm box-end wrench, short so not to over-do it and got each "good-n-tight" by hand.

I would buy today and not wait until the last day. Remember, we're here to help. Take the plunge! Since last summer, I have been extremely happy with ours. 🤣

Edited March 17 by jd1923

[tallmandan]

9 hours ago, jd1923 said:

OTT and most Oliver owners have gone with a Blue Sea Systems. Given you will switch the ground, I would get the black one. This ON/OFF switch is rated 300A:
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-6008-Selector/dp/B00558LSJE/?th=1
Given your switch will just sit on top of the outside battery, I would tape it down to the top with some 3M VHB 4950 tape. 

Given you're thinking the two 300AH Epoch Essentials, your picture shows two good jumper cables that should fit like I mounted mine. One of the two shorty cables can be used to go from the negative battery post to your cut-off switch. This should add a good 6" to the main negative cable which in my installation is the furthest out.

Yes, get bolts long enough, but just long enough. There is less than 3/4" of thread in the batteries. You need enough threads to hold well but not too much to bottom out the bolt where it would not hold the cables tight. Two included bolts may fit where you would have just one cable bolted down. Two should be about 1/2" longer to hold the main cable, the jumper cable and two of the thinner 6 AWG cables. The manual calls for M10 bolts (metric) torqued to 35 Nm (25 lb-ft). I used a short 13mm box-end wrench, short so not to over-do it and got each "good-n-tight" by hand.

I would buy today and not wait until the last day. Remember, we're here to help. Take the plunge! Since last summer, I have been extremely happy with ours. 🤣

Thanks @jd1923.  Really helpful.  I placed my order today for the two Essential 300aH batteries.  I have the Blue Seas switch ordered from Amazon.  This evening I disconnected, capped and taped the black charging wire from my 7-pin lead under the bathroom vanity.  Once the delivieries show up, I'll start pulling apart my AGM set up and hope things go smoothly 🙂

Thanks for taking time to think about my questions and replying with your help and advice!

[SeaDawg]

On 3/16/2025 at 10:50 PM, jd1923 said:

Sherry, is your battery the style he showed in the video? He showed the one with Victron Comms, the more expensive battery, not the Epoch Essentials.

Our epoch 460 is about a year old, so not the new buggy firmware. It does have victron connections. I don't know if it's technically v1 or v2. Even the 12v battety (460) he tested passed capacity, but like our earlier version, older firmware.

[Teaney Hull 292]

On 3/13/2025 at 10:07 AM, tallmandan said:

With the 15% off sale that just started on Epoc lithium batteries, I'm considering upgrading my AGMs in my 2020 LEII now rather than waiting on their inevitible decline.  I'm not an engineer or and electrician so I'd like to follow the "keep it simple" principle and do it myself.  I know there have been several threads here about lithium upgrades and most seem to be extensive with new Victron equipment.  It seems I could keep all of my current system and simply replace the batteries and reprogram my inverter and solar charger...I think...

I have the Xantrex Freedom XC 2000W and Zamp ZS-30A solar controller

I'm considering either a single 460aH V2 or two of the 300aH Essential batteries from Epoch.

So can I ask the advice of the incredible brain-trust here --?

• I think 460aH seems enough for what we do but would the two 300aH be worth the extra cost and still be easy to install/manage without additional equipment?
• I don't have a battery disconnect switch in my 2020 LEII so the built-in on/off switch on the 460aH battery is appealing and I wouldn't need a smart shunt...is that correct?
• The 460aH V2 battery comes with a nice wired remote state-of-charge display monitor.  Has anyone installed this in your Oliver and where/how did you do it?
• Any other considerations or modifications that I would/should consider still under the "keep it simple" principle?

Appologize for yet another lithium upgrade post - but I thought this may be valuable to many other owners with aging AGMs like me.  Thanks in advance for your advice!

I too want to do the same thing. Hull 292 and 4 AGMs are going bad. I’m thinking more along the lines of 400 to 600 lithium amps. Will follow this for more input

[Teaney Hull 292]

On 3/16/2025 at 6:22 PM, SeaDawg said:

Will Prowse posted a new video yesterday expressing disappointment in the newer v2 Epoch batteries. From his comments, the new firmware has some major issues. He failed the 48 v batteries, gave the 12v  460 a questionable pass, as it had the old firmware.

We are quite happy with our original Epoch 460, installed some time back on the boat. 

 

So, I guess I'm saying I'd be cautious about the v2 12v, until such time as Will feels they've corrected the firmware issues. He is my go-to guru for solar and batteries. And, he's the reason we bought the earlier version 460 in the first place....

So glad you posted this. Will check it out and be careful what I buy to replace my AGMs in Hull 292

[SeaDawg]

43 minutes ago, Teaney Hull 292 said:

So glad you posted this. Will check it out and be careful what I buy to replace my AGMs in Hull 292

He's still happy with the hardware, but firmware and app are problematic in v2, sadly. I subscribe to his YouTube channel and forum. You may want to look there, too.

I hope Epoch gets it sorted out. They used to be Will's favorite (and ours has been great.)

[Derek B]

On 3/14/2025 at 8:45 AM, Patriot said:

any chance you could post up what cable lengths and gauge you ordered from batterycablesusa.com

@Patriot finally got around to looking a my cables used to parallel the batteries. They are 4/0 and 12 inches eye to eye, I do agree with @jd1923 though that waiting until batteries are installed are probably best option. From the day I placed my orders I had the cables in hand 2 days later. 
 

This is a pic of my install, i chose to center each battery on existing tie down straps using 3/4 pvc sheet I had left over from previous project as a spacer. On the sides of the batteries on long length of battery compartment I used strips cut from a cheap Walmart cutting board so everything fit tight. 
 

[T-Oliver]

Very clean looking !

what happened to all the 6 ga wires in the original battery picture ?

I am trying to figure out how to disappear them on 2017 Hull 254

[Derek B]

52 minutes ago, T-Oliver said:

what happened to all the 6 ga wires in the original battery picture ?

In my case I also added solar and a battery shunt. Since I was already doing the wiring I added a positive bus bar under dinette and negative under street side bed to move the 6 ga wires out of the battery compartment. 
 

Not a hard job but takes a little more planning and wiring of course.

[jd1923]

3 hours ago, Derek B said:

Since I was already doing the wiring I added a positive bus bar under dinette and negative...

Oliver Travel Trailers (OTT) has installed a lot of odd designs in electrical, plumbing and other mechanical systems.

For example, why should we remove the curbside bed to drain the Fresh Water Tank (FWT) or change the valves when adding fresh water while boondocking or winterizing with RV with antifreeze, if you must?! Blow a fuse on one of your stabilizer jacks, yep pull the streetside bed. My wife Chris spends time making nice beds with clean sheets and she's says - What?!!!

Why are there 4/0 cables in the battery bay connected to the inverter and then they have to add separate 6 AWG wires for the interior 12VDC system and a similar set of wires for the solar charger. It's certainly unnecessary. Almost EVERY Oliver owner that replaces house batteries makes one simple fix, like what @Derek B has done, good work!

We purchased comfortable yet heavy 10" mattresses and I'm not lifting one, if at all possible, while camping to add water to the Fresh Water Tank (we refill the FWT tank often when boondocking) and if we blow a fuse or have to reset the breaker for the solar charger, I'm NOT lifting the Streetside bed for these reasons either!

It does take a lot of work to do all this for yourself. I enjoy the work!🤣

Edited Wednesday at 05:51 AM by jd1923

[Patriot]

5 hours ago, Derek B said:

@Patriot finally got around to looking a my cables used to parallel the batteries. They are 4/0 and 12 inches eye to eye, I do agree with @jd1923 though that waiting until batteries are installed are probably best option. From the day I placed my orders I had the cables in hand 2 days later. 
 

This is a pic of my install, i chose to center each battery on existing tie down straps using 3/4 pvc sheet I had left over from previous project as a spacer. On the sides of the batteries on long length of battery compartment I used strips cut from a cheap Walmart cutting board so everything fit tight. 
 

@Derek B Thanks for the photos. Nice neat and clean work. Well done!

Edited Wednesday at 06:40 AM by Patriot

[tallmandan]

Thought I would follow-up with photos of my finished install.  BIG, BIG thanks to @Derek B and especially to @jd1923 for sharing their photos and offering info to help! I don't think I could have done this without you!

I would say my install is more "DIY amature" compared to their professsional work because I did not reconfigure the 6g wires inside the trailer on bus bars.  This would be best, but I just didn't feel comfortable enough in my level of skill and also didn't really want to spend the time - so my battery compartment is messy compared to theirs but everything works.

I wanted to install a manual disconnect switch and this turned out to be a needed extension in my case if I wanted to avoid replacing the main negative cable with a longer one.  There was no extra lenght to be pulled through from inside, so the cable was too short to reach far enough forward in the battery tray (without packing the batteries together in the back requiring shorter jumpers to be ordered as well).  The switch is connected by re-using one of the short red jumpers and I put black gorilla tap around it to mark it as negative. The switch provided a large/long connection post to stack the multiple neg wires.  I did have to use a drill and dremel tool to slightly enlarge the terminal connector holes on the neg 6ga wires as they were slightly too small to fit on the post of the switch (a professional would have replaced these terminal ends with the correct size).  I was going to secure the switch to the battery with 3M VBR tape but decided to let it simply sit on a piece of rubberized foam.  This allows it to shift slightly as the stiff wires bend to close the drawer. 

The OEM bolt on the main + terminal had to be replaced with a slightly longer one to accomodate the stack.   I have a bit of concern that the stacked terminal connections could be more prone to loosen with vibration over time so I will be checking on this periodically (they were stacked by Oliver's original configuration without a problem)  I can easily reach the disconnect switch without pulling out the tray.

It was very easy to program my Xantrex 2000 inverter/charger and my Zamp solar controller as they both have settings for LifePo4. 

My total cost was $1725 ($1698 for the two batteries, $25 for the switch and $2 for the longer terminal bolt) and I'm loaded with 600aH of lithium power.  I have SOC and detailed charging/discharging data available in the Epoch app on my phone via bluetooth. 

Really appreciate the info/help/advice available in this group!  Hope this might be valuable to anybody else with similar OEM equipment considering a DIY lithium replacement upgrade.

Here are photos of before/after --  not a professional install but it works...

IMG_1478.HEIC

Edited Saturday at 03:43 PM by tallmandan

[jd1923]

@tallmandan thanks for posting this and you're certainly welcome for my help. It was only written advice, you did this! You asked for advice and put it quickly to use in your own way! 😂

There are two other threads going here, where others could copy what you did. As you now know, it's not that difficult once you dig in and just do it. There is no better upgrade on our Olivers than 600AH in LiFePO4 batteries!!!

Your installation looks great! I would say better than the factory, as compared to the before picture. OTT has a way with plastic loom that is not needed in most cases and yours looks clean. We are all amateurs on our first mods and we get better over time. Good job and I know you'll be happy with it. It was a good idea of yours to add the cut-off switch and the shorty cable you had to add the required length to the battery ground. Otherwise, having all the terminals in the rear would be a pain over time. Your bolts should be fine as long as you have a 1/2" of thread connected. Yes, check them again but if they are still good with time on the road, they'll stay good, and you can forget about them soon.

I'm jealous as I paid $100 more for our Epochs! Hope to meet you on the road one day. We'll be in parts of CO this June. Definitely come see us in Arizona when you're down our way!

Edited Saturday at 06:25 PM by jd1923

[Derek B]

@tallmandan nice work, you will see a huge improvement in capacity with your upgrade.