Brake Trouble?

[Rolind]

We arrived at Ft Lauderdale on the way to the Keys today and noted a severe flat spot on one tire worn into the steel plys. We have a TST tire monitor and never had a high temp warning and fortunately the tire is still holding pressure. Brakes didn’t feel hot and tire at arrival was same temp as all the others. 
Changed the tire, and brakes seem to work fine and no obvious bearing issues with hand rotation. We are getting a new tire in Marathon tomorrow and a mobile service tv tech is coming to look over the brakes on Wednesday.  
Trailer has about 27k miles on it. 
Any other suggestions on what happened and what to do next. 

 

[jd1923]

7 minutes ago, Rolind said:

Any other suggestions on what happened and what to do next?

Odd that's it's rolling fine now, after you jacked it up. Obviously at some point it was stuck in that one position. Brakes locking up must be it if the bearings are good, but why are they no longer locked up?

Hope things work out for you quickly without anything major! Best wishes, JD

[topgun2]

The only thing that I can think of is that something got jammed in the brakes which either made that single brake lock in the "on" position or that something was like a stone that jammed the brake very tight to the drum on that one brake.  Then as you backed up the trailer - probably into the camping spot - whatever was jammed became released thus causing everything to return to normal.

I assume that your mobile tech will check the brake wiring, the magnet and all other parts of the brake (at least on that wheel) plus the bearings, etc..

What pressure do you run in your tires?  I ask because the worn spot is directly in the center of the tire as opposed to being spread out.  This might indicate that your pressures are too high.  Also, can you tell us what TPMS system you are using and what your "high" temperature limit is set at?  I would have thought that the temps should have reached a high enough level to trigger the TPMS unless (of course) the wheel wasn't really "locked up" all that long.

Bill

p.s.  glad that other than the cost of the tire and the mobile tech that everyone is OK.

[Rolind]

Thanks all for the input. My tire monitor is a TST 507. Tire pressures are a little more difficult as the tires were inflated to 65 psi when the temp at home was 60ºF in anticipation of colder weather. When we left Louisville, the temp was thirty and pressures were down to about 57 psi. Last night on the way from a several day stopover in Charleston the ambient temp was 22ºF and pressure was down to 55 psi. Temp upper limit is the factory default of 158º.

i also wonder how many miles it took to wear down the tire to that extent. They trailer had been sitting for several months before we left and maybe the brake mechanicals were rusted and stuck. The trailer has about 24k miles on it with some salt air exposure in Anastasia in St Augustine and Bahia Honda. I will be interested to see what the brakes look like when the mobile tech removes the drum.  Hopefully the trip tomorrow to the keys goes smoothly!. 
We absolutely feel like we dodged a bullet today and have said our thanks.

[Steph and Dud B]

We found an extra brake backer plate nut loose inside one of our wheels. It would randomly get caught up in the brake assembly, emitting a terrible screech. Could be hard to notice because it would stick to the magnet.

[topgun2]

13 hours ago, Rolind said:

Temp upper limit is the factory default of 158º.

For what its worth - I'd lower this a bit - say down to 145 - certainly you can go lower but if you have that side of the trailer in the sun, are traveling on dark black asphalt roads and are traveling at speed - above 55 mph - you might have times when you will get a signal that things are getting too hot.

While I'm sure that there will be some discussion here about the 65psi to start in the tires, if I'm planning on doing a fair amount of driving on the Interstate (i.e. speeds of above 60 mph) I'll start with a psi of 60.  Having said this, I doubt that your 65 psi was so high as to be the only cause of that worn spot in the tire.  I wouldn't be worried about the psi fluctuation you saw due to the ambient temperature drop.  As things warm up I'd bet that your psi will return to close to what you originally set it.

Interesting information on the storage of your Ollie - indeed, that salt air and lack of movement point to rust being a major suspect in the problem.  Please let us know what the results are of the mobile tech taking a look at the situation.

Bill

[Patriot]

Glad you did not have a blow out or worse. If it were me I would immediately have a complete brake and wheel bearing inspection done on all four drums. 

It’s more than obvious in your photo that tire/brake was locked down. 

Safe Travels!

 

Edited January 17 by Patriot

[jd1923]

18 hours ago, Rolind said:

the tires were inflated to 65 psi... and pressure was down to 55 psi.

i also wonder how many miles it took to wear down the tire to that extent.

A locked wheel could burn down a flat spot like that in just a few miles.

@topgun2 Bill was correct in noticing from the picture that you're running too much tire pressure and so is anybody running over 50 PSI in an LE2, PERIOD! Unless you have D52 axles and HD springs providing a 10K LB platform and you've added upgrades and tools, every possible Oliver cabinet packed full, so your Oliver is up to 8000-9000 LBS. I know one owner that fits this description, but most of us carry under the 7K GTWR.

I'm posting this table for the 4th time on this forum. These are the tires we have, but tire makes are all about the same. What's important is the tire size you're running and the weight you're carrying. Sure go 5 PSI over, but 10-15 PSI over effects the trailer ride and will over time deliver unnecessary stress and strain to your trailer suspension and all components.

65 PSI on our four LT225/75R16 tires carries 4x 2,620 LBS for 10,480 LBS GTW!
55 PSI on our four LT225/75R16 tires carries 4x 2,290 LBS for 9,160 LBS GTW!
45 PSI on our four LT225/75R16 tires carries 4x 1,950 LBS for 7,800 LBS GTW!
@John E Davies towed his Oliver for years at 42 PSI, I fill up to 46 PSI, and filling over 50 PSI is ignoring the science for superstition! 

Edited January 17 by jd1923

[Rolind]

Thanks again all. We stopped today at Marathon and got a new spare at Tire Kingdom/Mavis.  They were awesome, we were in and out in 20 minutes and I would highly recommend the shop. We are now tucked in at Sugerloaf and no issues today. The mobile service tech is coming Wednesday afternoon, and I will definitely post an update afterwards. I will say that after I got past the shock of seeing the tire damage,  my first thought was that I was running the tires with too much pressure.  I appreciate comments from  jd1923 and plan on researching this further. You know the whole trust but verify thing. 

[jd1923]

4 hours ago, Rolind said:

I appreciate comments from  jd1923 and plan on researching this further. You know the whole trust but verify thing. 

For sure! Just know your actual trailer weight first, add 10%, and check your manufacturer's tire pressure/load table! 😎

[Geronimo John]

About 2 miles.  Ben there done that 20 years ago.  I now do a FULL bearing and brake service before each season.

Hint.

🙂

GJ

[Rolind]

The mobile rv tech came by yesterday and was very helpful.  He pulled the tire and drums and the brakes looked great. Little pad wear no rust, dirt, rocks or extra parts.  Bearings are fine. He had no explanation for why the brakes would temporarily lock up. He suggested that perhaps there was a ply failure that resulted in a bleb that then resulted in increased wear.  I think this is possible but hard to imagine occurring in the center of the tread. I am happy the brakes are ok but I suppose time will tell.

I will be lowering my tire pressures as per JDs suggestion. I am not sure pressure had anything to do will our recent tire failure but lower pressures certainly seem to make good sense given the trailers weight.

Thanks to everyone who posted advice.

[jd1923]

Tire pressure is independent.

Something jammed your wheel temporarily, reasons unknown or TBD.

Keep an eye out…

Edited Saturday at 04:32 AM by jd1923

[CRM]

8 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Something jammed your wheel temporarily, reasons unknown or TBD.

Keep an eye out…

Yep, and since nothing was found during inspection I'd be changing out all the brake components, at least on that wheel. 

[CRM]

10 hours ago, Rolind said:

 He suggested that perhaps there was a ply failure that resulted in a bleb that then resulted in increased wear.  I think this is possible but hard to imagine occurring in the center of the tread. I am happy the brakes are ok but I suppose time will tell.

No way was that caused by a ply failure. You can tell by the wear pattern and the melted rubber buildup on one side that it was caused by a lockup. 

[topgun2]

Rolind - 

Another possibility is that there is a short in the brake wiring.

Several owners have noted wiring issues with the brake wires that are run inside the axle.  I'd guess that the RV tech didn't check this and even if he did there is no certain way of checking this without pulling those wires out of the axle.

Having said this - your Ollie is relatively new compared to those (that I'm aware of) that have had this issue.  But, it is one more thing to be aware of.

Bill

[John Dorrer]

Rolind, could you add your trailer year to your signature. Thanks.

[jd1923]

5 hours ago, topgun2 said:

Another possibility is that there is a short in the brake wiring.

I’m thinking a short gives you no brakes, though I’m not certain. What could possibly supply full amperage from the Blue wire to one wheel only?

Or are the brakes fine on that wheel and shorted/dead in the other three. That would cause a lockup!

Suggestion: test brake amperage at all 4 wheels independently. 

Edited Saturday at 06:38 PM by jd1923

[topgun2]

2 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

I’m thinking a short gives you no brakes, though I’m not certain. What could possibly supply full amperage from the Blue wire to one wheel only?

Yes - poor wording on my part.

Perhaps what I should have said was that there might be a malfunction in the wiring system that would (intermittently) cause the brake on that one wheel to engage.  And, possibly, that could be inside the axle wiring.

Better?

Bill 

[jd1923]

2 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

Yes - poor wording on my part.

Perhaps what I should have said was that there might be a malfunction in the wiring system that would (intermittently) cause the brake on that one wheel to engage.  And, possibly, that could be inside the axle wiring.

Better?

Bill 

Yes, and I edited/added to my post. Brake wire amperage to each wheel should be tested. 

[jd1923]

10 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

Or are the brakes fine on that wheel and shorted/dead in the other three. That would cause a lockup!

Suggestion: test brake amperage at all 4 wheels independently.

@Rolind too bad the mobile tech didn’t think to do this, or we gave better advice sooner.

You should do this before towing another distance. You need a clamp-on multimeter that reads DC Amps. Clamp either single wire behind each braking plate. Each should read between 2-4 Amps when brakes are engaged (or pull safety brake pin for testing). Also the 4 readings should be close in range.

[CRM]

15 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

I’m thinking a short gives you no brakes, though I’m not certain. What could possibly supply full amperage from the Blue wire to one wheel only?

Or are the brakes fine on that wheel and shorted/dead in the other three. That would cause a lockup!

Suggestion: test brake amperage at all 4 wheels independently. 

A dead short to ground should leave you with no brakes and a blown fuse, though if only one wheel is getting power on the blue wire it's possible it could be locking only that wheel up. Also, if that one problem wheel has a short in the electromagnet lowering it's resistance it's possible that most or all of the current is going to that one wheel only too. 

Brake controllers also all send a "phantom voltage" on the blue wire so they know when a trailer is attached, though I don't know if the current is enough to cause a problem if there's a problem with one of the electromagnets. Probably a little different with each model.