2015 Oliver Elite II 12 VDC “NEGATIVE” Connection Issue

[dedroll]

I just tried John's suggestion on hooking up my TV to my trailer. The battery read 13.1 after a full day of sun being parked in the drive, I hooked up the Tundra and it went up to 13.3 and no further after 20 min. ??  Any thoughts on that?  I towed all day on my first outing with the fridge on DC and in the evening I was in the mid 12's  (12.3 to 12.6)  I was concerned if I should be concerned :?

 

 

[KarenLukens]

I just tried John’s suggestion on hooking up my TV to my trailer. The battery read 13.1 after a full day of sun being parked in the drive, I hooked up the Tundra and it went up to 13.3 and no further after 20 min. ?? Any thoughts on that? I towed all day on my first outing with the fridge on DC and in the evening I was in the mid 12’s (12.3 to 12.6) I was concerned if I should be concerned

If you have Solar, that could be what took it up the 2/10ths, if it was charging with the TV when driving, then you should have been at full charge unless you left the fridge on DC for a while after you parked. I'm going to call Scott tomorrow to see if there's a reason for not grounding it properly.

 

Reed

 

Good News

 

I towed Goldilocks home today with the temporary ground wire hooked up and after 2-1/2 hours, we are fully charged at home for the first time. Plus this was without using the tow ready LED adapter for the first time also and everything worked great.

 

I ended up taking my Tekonsha P3 down from 5.6 to 3.8 also and it gave me perfect brakes, no ifs, ands, or buts. My suspicions were correct in that having proper ground would really change the brake setting. The brakes were strong and there was no lag, they were nice and crisp compared to before with the tow ready and improper grounding. So basically, all of the trailers need this basic fix because proper ground really affects everything in a positive way :)

 

Reed

[PAndrews]

Oliver Customers,

 

Most Oliver trailers that were manufactured in 2015 and all prior were intentionally wired so that the trailer brakes and charge wire would be grounded through the tow vehicle at the ball.  This is a common practice in the industry.  With this wiring configuration, regular maintenance of your ball hitch is required to ensure that no rust or corrosion is creating a bad connection.  It is recommended to use dielectric grease on the ball.

 

The grounding process was changed in late 2015.  Now the brakes and charger wires are grounded directly to the frame.  The brakes and charge wire will work through the ground in either configuration.

[Maverick]

Oliver Customers, Most Oliver trailers that were manufactured in 2015 and all prior were intentionally wired so that the trailer brakes and charge wire would be grounded through the tow vehicle at the ball. This is a common practice in the industry. With this wiring configuration, regular maintenance of your ball hitch is required to ensure that no rust or corrosion is creating a bad connection. It is recommended to use dielectric grease on the ball. The grounding process was changed in late 2015. Now the brakes and charger wires are grounded directly to the frame. The brakes and charge wire will work through the ground in either configuration.

 

Phillip:

 

I have owned many travel trailers over the last 50 years and I have NEVER had a trailer where the tow vehicle negative and the onboard battery negative was NOT bonded together.  Our trailer was delivered on September 2, 2015; so when did OTT start bonding the two negatives together.  The trailer ball is NOT a good ground; if you are using a Anderson Weight Distribution Hitch the ball is floated in a cone that does not conduct electricity.  So in your method the ground is only obtained through the safety chains, etc.  I have a dozen or so travel trailers in my neighbor hood that are between 1 and 5 years old and I have checked with each of them and both tow vehicle negative and onboard battery negative are tied together.

 

According to what you said above about the bonding of the two negatives the tow vehicle could NEVER charge the trailer battery.

 

The trailer breaks is a major safety issue that should be corrected ASAP.  Is OTT going to contact the owners of these effected trailer with the wiring issue and how to correct the problem?

 

 

[KarenLukens]

Oliver Customers, Most Oliver trailers that were manufactured in 2015 and all prior were intentionally wired so that the trailer brakes and charge wire would be grounded through the tow vehicle at the ball. This is a common practice in the industry. With this wiring configuration, regular maintenance of your ball hitch is required to ensure that no rust or corrosion is creating a bad connection. It is recommended to use dielectric grease on the ball. The grounding process was changed in late 2015. Now the brakes and charger wires are grounded directly to the frame. The brakes and charge wire will work through the ground in either configuration.

 

Our hull#200 is a 2017 and until I added the negative jumper directly to the frame, my trailer had never charged. Nobody ever mentioned dielectric grease to us, but our tow ball has always been greased and has never seen rust. What we did see was a bad ground registering only 9vdc at the 7 pin connector and now that it's been corrected our batteries charged while driving for the first time ever, yesterday. Plus we were able to take off the "TowReady" LED light trailer adapter for the first time also and the brakes worked much better then before.

 

Being that a simple ground/ voltage test showed immediately that we weren't properly grounded at the 7pin connector, then a quick direct ground jumper wire made the trailer come alive without the need of a 7pin adapter anymore, and our trailer brakes needed a much lower setting with the new ground, our results speak for itself.

 

Reed

[Raspy]

Oliver Customers, Most Oliver trailers that were manufactured in 2015 and all prior were intentionally wired so that the trailer brakes and charge wire would be grounded through the tow vehicle at the ball. This is a common practice in the industry. With this wiring configuration, regular maintenance of your ball hitch is required to ensure that no rust or corrosion is creating a bad connection. It is recommended to use dielectric grease on the ball. The grounding process was changed in late 2015. Now the brakes and charger wires are grounded directly to the frame. The brakes and charge wire will work through the ground in either configuration.

 

First, that is not true.  The grounding process was not changed in 2015 and I can prove it.  Hull #200 had the same problem until Reed and I fixed it.

 

Second, where does it say in the manual to do regular maintenance of the ball in order to make the brakes work? And what about the Anderson hitch?

 

Third: why is the "industry standard"  an excuse for making the system not charge from the tow vehicle and make the brakes weak.  We bought an Oliver that we thought was better than the "industry standard" and now it turns out we have to design  fixes and figure out how to install them while Oliver refuses to accept any responsibility.  This acknowledgement clears up all of the speculation as to why Oliver wired the trailers this way, year after year.  It's a bad design, and now it has turned into a denial of responsibility and a lie.  Worse, Oliver, while saying they are better, is actually only barely meeting what they call "industry standard", as though that justifies this problem.   And even worse than that, is denying any responsibility for the mistake which leaves people with poor brakes and no trailer charging.  This is just like the water tank problem:  More denial, which is another and separate issue.

 

Oliver's true expertise is in fiberglass work.  These trailers are undeniably beautiful and the glass is very well done.  But, the mechanical and electrical design is a different issue.   As good as their intentions are, they have made mistakes, and now it seems they are attempting to fix the issues by denying them.

 

I went into this believing Oliver was better, not only in mechanical design, but in spirit.    I've designed and installed fixes at my own expense.  I've helped others with my knowledge and experience.  And now, once again, Oliver presents a denial by hiding behind the term "industry standard" after constantly telling us they are better and worth the cost.

 

Maverick fixed his electrical problem, I fixed mine and Reed and I fixed his.  None of these would charge while being towed and the idea that a current carrying connection through the ball makes sense, is ridiculous.  It's a ridiculous design and it has been proven to not work by actual owners who can't get the batteries to charge and have weak brakes.  Now Oliver is lying to us about it.   To say it's OK because it's an industry standard is denial and a way to get out of responsibility.

 

Oliver should never be in the position of justifying a bad design by saying that others do it, so it's fine.  And further, denying problems that stem from poor decisions is a recipe for disaster as your very best form of advertising, the owners of your trailers, are having problems and being told Oliver is not at fault and not going to correct the problems.

 

Oliver:  get ready for a business failure unless you accept responsibility for poor decisions as well as fix them and use sound engineering in the future.   The water tank issue is another example of poor design and denial of responsibility.

 

I believed the water tank problem was an honest mistake and I came up with a good fix.  Then Maverick found the electrical problem which lead to a lot of talk and analysis to make it work.  Now, Oliver is denying responsibility for either of the two.

 

I'm disgusted.  I really like my Oliver, but when I hear the factory is hiding behind excuses and denying mistakes, it pops my bubble and my willingness to promote them is lost.    I'm afraid Oliver has not yet learned the most basic lessons of customer relations and standing behind their product.  Becoming "part of the family" is a nice saying they use, but when the rubber meets the road, they won't help you with their design mistakes.  Think about it.  I certainly hope I have no problems where I need Oliver to help me!

[John E Davies]

I think it is fairly safe to assume that grounding is not a problem if your brakes work great and the battery seems to charge off the TV..... but I plan to look at my wiring just in case. I will probably wait until off-season.

 

Maverick, thanks for starting this thread. I really don't understand why some of these really important issues haven't already appeared as Tech Bulletins.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[Raspy]

John,

 

 

 

It's a very simple test.  Unplug from shore power and note the voltage.  Back the TV up close to the trailer, but don't connect the hitch.   Plug in the umbilical and start the tow vehicle engine.  Look at the trailer volt meter and see if it begins to climb.

 

If it is charging you are good to go.  If not, find the negative buss under the rear dinette seat and see if it has a white ground wire attached.   There should also be a white ground wire going from the buss to the frame grounding lug which is only about 7 inches away and can be a bit hard to locate.

 

If you have no obvious negative wire connected from the buss to the umbilical, see if you can find the end of the umbilical under the front dinette seat and locate the white wire in that cable.  That is the one that should go to the negative buss.  You can also make a temporary fix by connecting another white wire inside the male plug and routing it to a connection on the frame, maybe a hitch bolt, for instance.  Then, if it still doesn't charge, connect a wire from the frame lug to the buss under the rear seat.

 

Mine was easy (#92) as I had access to the umbilical and was able to extend the white ground wire to the bus, but Reed's (#200) was more difficult and we had to make a temporary fix from the plug to the frame.

 

Once connected and charging, the voltage should slowly climb to 14 volts on the meter.  Then back on the internal charger while plugged to shore, the voltage should drop to 13.2.   Completely disconnected from the TV and shore, the voltage should drop to 12.6 or lower with loads.

 

Let us know what you find.

[KarenLukens]

No, John's not going to have a white wire to the negative bus because his is newer then mine... His disappears under the bathroom sink like mine, I'm sure. I think that once you plug in your trailers 7 pin to the tv, if it's charging, the voltage should jump up immediately on the SeeLevel to around 14volts, but either way, if you can discharge the batteries a bit, maybe down to 12.4, as soon as it's connected to the TV, it should jump because it will be registering the total voltage being put out by the alternator if it's grounded correct. Yesterday, I called and left a message for Richie to call me back for all of my issues that I have going on and to get all the parts that I need, so hopefully today, he might call me back... I figured that I would start with him being he is the new sales manager, I think? I talked to Anita and she gave me his phone #, then I left a message.

 

Karen wants to drive to Tennessee to get the things fixed and I'm almost ready to go that route myself. We have one window latch that the screw was stripped out and we found it in the gutter a couple months ago. We called Jason back then but never followed up on it. Basically most of our problems deal with their stripped forward screws or stripped out holes for the blinds catches. Then I want a new stainless steel bolt for the back bumper that they stripped and forced down cross threading all the way. I couldn't find a stainless steel bolt that size here in town, and a couple other small issues like the wires on my 7 pin that they left exposed. Most of this stuff I can fix but the window latch is questionable, just because I'm not sure about how they want to fix it. Then there's the Solar...

 

Reed

 

It would be nice to have a list of who's who at Oliver with all of the personel changes since January.

[Mainiac]

I believe Kelly Robinson is the Sales Manager, though I see no evidence of what she does.  I believe the Richie Carroll is the new Service Manager.  He moved over from quality control, which for the most part seemed to be almost non existence in most areas. I had a license plate light not work (wired backwards), blinds not attached completely, and short screws in my kitchen drawers. I had been assured by a sales 'clerk' that all units still at the plant were checked and fixed for the drawer issue. Nope..not mine. I have now been waiting for almost three weeks for whatever is going to materialize for a drawer fix. I have fixed one. I have been told UPS didn't have a valid address to deliver to me over a week ago. Gave it to Richie. Still waiting. If quality control had problems, how are they going to transfer that to service? And to top it off, we had three showings. Good thing we fixed the one drawer.

 

I have had to make a tab at a campsite because the one that holds the water heater door closed broke. I made it out of an old cheap spoon. That is starting to rust. Evidently only plastic ones are available to OTT. Anybody got a SS spoon they don't need? Now to add the bag to keep the water from sputtering, and water pick ups that don't pick up water, oh and maybe my batteries don't charge from the TV too? Color me a little disappointed...

 

 

[KarenLukens]

When we had the suburban water heater I was thinking how great a pull tab off of a beer can would work there in an emergency... Lol. All kidding aside though, at least these are little issues and we have a great core crew of owners with the combined knowledge to bring all of these things not only to light, but how to fix them.

 

I thought Jason was service manager? Man they sure have had a lot of turnover at Oliver this year... Anita said that Jason was elsewhere in the plant now and Richie has Jason's old phone number... so I'm definitely not up to snuff on the who's who... Anita still leads them all in customer service in my book, she answers the phone and does everything she can to help.

 

In my last job the old saying was, "It's not who you know, it's who you're related to..." A lot of the management was related and if you weren't part of that inner second family, that in no way was related to the Owners, your first step into management, was your first step out the door... I'm feeling that we have a lot of this going on at Oliver also. Some people hold on to their job because they're unknown family, not because they actually have the ability to do it... When the employees lead their bosses around by their hand and still can't teach them their job, that's usually where the problem starts... We had a new guy come thru my team, I told the foreman that they needed to not hire him because he was an accident waiting to happen and that he was going to end up killing someone... He was all attitude and no brains. Still he got hired because I later found out that he was the bosses new son in-law and as usual was advancing quickly like the related always do... We were asked not to tell the owners that he had a relationship with the management team and then a few weeks later he was in the lab making top dollar with his cousin... There was a piece of duct tape stuck to the bottom of an "S" roll, we grabbed him, pulled him away as he was trying to reach up and grab it, took him aside even though he was supposedly my boss now, especially in his eyes, we once again took him to the foreman (his father in-law) and told him what had happened... He was going to have me fired for treating him like that being he was family... but after 20 years of doing the hiring myself for the Owner's, even unrelated in any way - I was way out of his families reach. Then a couple of hours later low and behold, he showed back up on the floor drunk after going out to lunch... neither of which wasn't usually allowed... Lol... He kept going back and staring at that piece of duct tape, once again my friend told him to walk away and quit thinking about it...

 

The next day he made sure nobody was around when he went to pull that piece of duct tape off of the 6" S roll and the roll won. It sucked him in thru the drive breaking his arm every 3" all the way to the shoulder and then it held him there about 7' off of the ground with the hydraulic rolls still spinning and held him tight in place until he had almost bled out with part of his arm now a piece of paper. The white paper suddenly turned red... After dieing a few times on the way to the hospital, he got smart... He never came back of course and sued the company for millions of dollars and now lives in a big house, while supporting his family with his winnings and the company is no longer in business. So I've always wondered who really was the smarter one there? Lol.

 

The S roll was 3 - 6" x 22' long rolls in the shape of a triangle, designed to keep a belt tight and rolling straight in our paper mill. His shoulder and neck kept him from being sucked completely thru, he lost all control of his arm and still thru his own stupidity became a millionaire... The family made a ton, his father in-law got fired and us little people stayed on until the mill was shut down by California regulation.

 

I'm just say'in, when the employees tell you that a member of the family needs to be gone or is an accident waiting to happen... it's best to listen, regardless of how destitute the poor little cousin is that can't even hold a job at McDonald's...

 

I'm not trying to say or insinuate anything here, as an owner I have a vested interest in this company, so I care! The Oliver's are all good people and this is just one of my old stories that has nothing to do with them at all :)

 

Reed

[geO]

My trailer is haul #216 and I did the suggested test by not hooking up the trailer and plugging the 7-way plug into my TV and I went from 12.6 to 13.5 in about 10 minutes having the truck idling. . If I understand correctly my TV is charing my batteries using this method. I've been following this thread and thanks folks for sharing the info.

 

George

[Raspy]

George,

 

Thanks for the post.  Sounds like Oliver fixed the problem somewhere between hull 200 and hull 216.

 

 

[STEVEnBETTY]

We have hull#219, it has continuity at the plug and is charging. You may get a full 14 volts to your trl but not necessarily, it depends on you tow vehicles wiring.

[DavidS]

I tried to test my electrical system with a multimeter as Maverick suggested. The results were equivocal, probably because of my ineptitude and my minimal experience with multimeters. I then tried Raspy’s suggestion of hooking the 7 pin connector to the car, starting the engine, and monitoring the battery voltage on the See Level Meter. Without the connection to the car the battery was at 12.7 volts, and with the car hooked up the meter rose up to 13.9. I conclude that I can charge my battery from my tow vehicle.

 

If you have no obvious negative wire connected from the buss to the umbilical, see if you can find the end of the umbilical under the front dinette seat and locate the white wire in that cable.

I don’t know what a buss is, but a Google Images Search helped. I looked under the rear dinette and saw this which I think is the buss.

 

 

The only umbilical I know is from embryology, but again a Google search for electrical umbilical cord helped. There were many cables down there that looked like the images I saw online, but one had a white cable connected to the buss via some kind of wire splitter.

 

 

BTW, I have hull 164.

[Raspy]

David,

 

The "umbilical" I'm referring to is the trailer cord that connects to the tow vehicle with the seven pin plug.  That big rubber cord is the umbilical and it enters the trailer under the tongue.  It contains a white wire which is the negative 12 volt wire that must complete the 12 volt circuit to make the brakes work right and to charge the batteries.  It must be connected to the batteries and the brakes somehow.

 

The white wire you pointed out on the negative bus, (BTW, that is the negative buss you showed) is, I believe, the brake negative. It completes the circuit to the brakes.  You can follow it and see if it goes through a hole and out to the brake wiring under the trailer.  One of the other yellow wires in the picture is actually your ground that is somehow connected to the umbilical white.  On the later trailers, like yours, the negative path is harder to follow.  But since yours is charging, it seems you don't have the problem.

 

The next time you take a trip, notice if the battery voltage is clear up to about 14 volts after a long run and before you shut off the TV.

[Corcomi]

Im going to comment on an issue i have had driving the Oliver (Hull 275 )last week

 

I tow with a 2017 Ford F150 King Ranch with all the bells and whistles. On my last trip which was about 7 hours i got several messages that said "trailer disconnected". I stop to check and all was good, the lights worked so i continued. On my phone i have the Ford app that monitors my truck and i saw that i had 4 messages that said "Electric Trailer Break Connection" It further says that what is happening is that the trailer has become disconnected or a wiring fault occurred that is causing the trailer to appear disconnected. It further says that if the trailer Disconnected message is displayed: stop the vehicle as soon as possible and turn off the engine. Check the trailer connections. If the wiring fault on trailer message is displayed with no trailer connected, contact an authorized dealer asap. With the trailer connected consult the trailer dealer/repair facility for assistance . Today i tool the tow vehicle to the Ford dealership and had them run a diagnostic on the trailer connect and all was good. So now do i look to Oliver TT for guidance or is the issue as has been stated here something with the grounding of the trailer.

[DavidS]

On my phone i have the Ford app that monitors my truck and i saw that i had 4 messages that said “Electric Trailer Break Connection” It further says that what is happening is that the trailer has become disconnected or a wiring fault occurred that is causing the trailer to appear disconnected. It further says that if the trailer Disconnected message is displayed: stop the vehicle as soon as possible and turn off the engine. Check the trailer connections. If the wiring fault on trailer message is displayed with no trailer connected, contact an authorized dealer asap.

There is a long thread on similar issues here.

 

In a number of cases the Tow Ready adaptor solved the problem.

[Maverick]

Im going to comment on an issue i have had driving the Oliver (Hull 275 )last week I tow with a 2017 Ford F150 King Ranch with all the bells and whistles. On my last trip which was about 7 hours i got several messages that said “trailer disconnected”. I stop to check and all was good, the lights worked so i continued. On my phone i have the Ford app that monitors my truck and i saw that i had 4 messages that said “Electric Trailer Break Connection” It further says that what is happening is that the trailer has become disconnected or a wiring fault occurred that is causing the trailer to appear disconnected. It further says that if the trailer Disconnected message is displayed: stop the vehicle as soon as possible and turn off the engine. Check the trailer connections. If the wiring fault on trailer message is displayed with no trailer connected, contact an authorized dealer asap. With the trailer connected consult the trailer dealer/repair facility for assistance . Today i tool the tow vehicle to the Ford dealership and had them run a diagnostic on the trailer connect and all was good. So now do i look to Oliver TT for guidance or is the issue as has been stated here something with the grounding of the trailer.

 

You need to check the grounding on your trailer, more than likely the ground from your tow vehicle is not connected to the trailer breaks ground side.  If you read the beginning of this thread it will describe how to check out the grounding issue and also how to correct the problem.  Since I corrected the grounding issue ON the Oliver Travel Trailer I have had no other issues.  Oliver TT never sent anything out about their problem with the ground issue they created on the trailer.  There is two problems with their ground connections:  1.  The trailer breaks negative lead is not connected to the negative lead coming from the tow vehicle via the 7 pin connector.  2.  The tow vehicle's ability to charge the trailers batteries when the tow vehicle is attached to the trailer does not work; again because of the defective grounding on the Oliver Trailer itself.

 

 

[Raspy]

Corcomi wrote:

On my phone i have the Ford app that monitors my truck and i saw that i had 4 messages that said “Electric Trailer Break Connection” It further says that what is happening is that the trailer has become disconnected or a wiring fault occurred that is causing the trailer to appear disconnected. It further says that if the trailer Disconnected message is displayed: stop the vehicle as soon as possible and turn off the engine. Check the trailer connections. If the wiring fault on trailer message is displayed with no trailer connected, contact an authorized dealer asap.

There is a long thread on similar issues here. In a number of cases the Tow Ready adaptor solved the problem.

 

Corcomi,

 

I suggest you first check to see if your trailer batteries are charging when plugged into the TV and the TV engine is running.

 

I have described this test earlier, but first check the trailer battery voltage when unplugged from shore and from the TV, for at least an hour or so.  Should be around 12.6- 12.8 if fully charged, or lower if not.  Either way that's fine as we need a starting point.  Then plug the trailer into the TV and start the engine.  You should see the voltage start to rise and it should come up to about 14 volts over the next hour or less.  Second, confirm that your trailer brakes are working.  This can be done by towing the trailer and applying the brakes, at the controller independently from the TV brakes, and noticing if the trailer pulls back or skids.

 

If you are charging the trailer batteries from the TV and the trailer brakes work, then your problem with the warning message is somewhere other than a ground.  If the brakes work, but you aren't charging, the ground can be the problem and you need to connect the brake ground wire to the trailer 12 volt negative buss bar and the buss bar to the 7 pin negative wire from the TV.   This will give the TV a constant negative, charge the batteries and, possibly,  stop the "disconnected" message from the TV.

 

Oliver has gone through an evolution with their wiring.  Mine was not grounded  and it was easy to fix.  Another Ollie I looked at was not grounded either, but the wiring was completely different internally.

 

 

[KarenLukens]

...<span style="line-height: 1.5;">Another Ollie I looked at was not grounded either, but the wiring was completely different internally.

</span>

 

That was October.... Nobody at Oliver could come back to this day, with an answer as to where it goes after it disappears inside the bathroom vanity and our fix works fine, so I haven't worried about it.

 

Run down your trailer batteries, run the inverter and microwave for a while or whatever. Get it down to 12.3+- then plug it in to your truck, the SeeLevel monitor should jump up to 13.8+- immediately while charging from the truck and this will let you know if you have a bad ground. Do it in the evening so the solar doesn't get involved. If it has a bad ground, the tow ready will help it register but it doesn't fix the problem and the trailer will still not be charging from the truck like it should. Grounding the 7 pin to the frame is easy, supposedly Oliver had fixed it but... The disconnect issue is isolated to Ford trucks and that thread is really thorough!