Where do you jack up a Oliver?

[donbob3]

Is anyone using the trailer aid in the previous post with a ez-flex equipped trailer?

[John E Davies]

Here is a good thread, I won’t bother highlighting the points made there.

 

http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=67545.0

 

One issue with an Ollie is the high frame clearance. Jacking the frame requires a floor jack with LOTS of lift, or lots of blocks placed on top of it’s pad. An extended reach bottle jack might be OK but requires lots of spacers underneath. Jacking under a spring pad is better IMO because it is so close to the ground and a very strong jack point, and it eliminates a bunch of loose stuff that might slip out and cause an accident.

 

You do need to watch for the spring equalizer flipping over with just one tire off the ground. This cannot happen if both are raised by using the onboard jacks.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[Raspy]

When I need to remove a wheel, and I'm in the garage, I use a floor jack under the spring plate.  This seems like the best place to lift the trailer to me.  The only reason I can think of for saying "don't lift it under the axle" is to prevent people jacking up the trailer in the middle of the axle between the left and right wheels.  That will not work, but it is how tire shops lift pickups, so it would probably happen, sooner or later if allowed.  Putting a block on top of a floor jack is very dangerous at it will roll and spit out the block and drop the load.  Not a good plan.  When I installed my Heavy duty suspension kit, I placed jack stands under the frame after lifting with the floor jack under the spring plate.  This allowed me to adjust the axle up and down as needed during the work and it was very safe with two stands per side.  I can hear the trailer creaking a bit when running the jacks down under load.  It makes sense because they are applying force behind the rear axle.  Jacking under the spring plate for service applies the lifting force exactly where that force comes from normally from the suspension.

 

The jacks are plenty strong enough to lift the trailer, but I see no reason to lift the tires clear off the ground just to level it. It just seems kind of silly to lift the wheels off the ground for leveling, especially since the jacks have play in them and the tires, while still in contact with the ground will make the trailer more stabile.  Much better to drive it up onto a some blocks and then fine tune with the jacks. Or drive the high side into a hole and fine tune.   Also, these units are "jacks" and not simply "stabilizers".   They are jacks that we use to stabilize, but the typical stabilizers cannot be used for jacks.  I'm referring to those simple scissors type units that are dropped down at each corner in other trailers.  They are not for lifting.  So, we have jacks, that we use for stabilizing the trailer AND that can be used for lifting if needed.  I would definitely use them to change a tire alongside the road.  It was common knowledge (whatever value that has) when I got my Ollie that the jacks were fine for tire changing.

 

Oliver seems to not have their story straight, and it has apparently changed over time.  But if there was a real issue, they would make it clear, I'm sure. Or they would upgrade to make it safer.  Not bothering to answer tells me, besides being disorganized, that they don't consider it a no no, especially since they used to tout it as a benefit.

 

Bottom line for me:  Use the jacks to stabilize or change a tire on the road.  Jack it up in the shop with a floor jack under the spring plates below the axle and set it on jack stands under the frame.  NEVER use a tall block to extend the reach of a floor jack.  NEVER leave it up on it's own jacks and work on it with the wheels off or when going under it.  Don't level it at a campsite by lifting the wheels clear off the ground.

 

Common sense must always prevail!  Don't rely on Oliver to always give the absolute firm policy regarding these issues.  One, they change their story over time and by who you talk to, or they just don't answer.  Two, they make blanket statements that don't always make sense.   Three, it's up to each of us to be safe and responsible for ourselves.   Blaming them for a mishap is not going to reduce the pain.

[Mainiac]

If Oliver provides a lug wrench and a spare tire they must have thought the on board jacks were adequate.  Surely they would provide (no cost retroactively) a special tire ramp if it is/was now actually required. But jacks to raise a vehicle have been included at the sale with it since before the Model A, so it is almost considered a standard item. The same Jason, mentioned above, described the JACKS and their use during our orientation. As Anita told me once, if they ignore a problem long enough it seems to go away.

 

As Raspy mentioned, Common sense must prevail..

[Maverick]

As Anita told me once, if they ignore a problem long enough it seems to go away.

 

That is some way to run a business.

[Raspy]

Canoe12 wrote:

As Anita told me once, if they ignore a problem long enough it seems to go away.

That is some way to run a business.

 

I just have to laugh.  Sheesh, what a policy.  Really?

 

But it does seem to answer some of the questions that we never seems to get resolved.  To, at once, talk about excellent customer support and the Oliver difference, and at the same time just be silent and wait for problems to go away, is very telling.    Further proof we are dealing with a small company here and the individuals in that company that seem to be overloaded.  When individual personalities have so much affect on company policies, or on the lack of policies, it makes me uncomfortable.  Any time they are busy or don't want to deal with something, or are in a bad mood, or worse yet, don't know how to deal with something, the customer is in trouble.  Each person will a give different answer, if they answer at all, while hoping we go away and quit asking.

 

If telling people how they expect us to jack up our trailers is too much for them to handle, imagine how much trouble it would be for them if we had some kind of serious issue, like a cracked frame, for instance.

 

The water tank issue has also proven to be one of those problems that they just want to go away.

 

Meanwhile, they want us to show our trailers to possible buyers and talk about how great it is to be in the Oliver family.  Again, I am just sitting here laughing.  Really?

[KarenLukens]

Maverick wrote:

Canoe12 wrote:

As Anita told me once, if they ignore a problem long enough it seems to go away.

That is some way to run a business.

I just have to laugh. Sheesh, what a policy... Again, I am just sitting here laughing. Really?

 

Yup, Anita told me the same thing and I laughed then because I'm proactive myself and fix the problems while either filming the fix or taking pictures when needed. Oliver is waiting for us to film our exterior light fixture fix and that will come next month hopefully. It needs to be done in hot weather above 73°

 

This jack thread has been hashed out over and over and some of you guys make to much of a big deal out of the simple things. They are called JACKS for a reason. And Oliver has used these "Screw Jacks" since the beginning. Karen and I are embarking on a new future here in Arizona now, and we will be here in Stanton for atleast a year. We thought about buying a larger trailer since we live full time in our Olli and started looking again, but there are no other trailers that even come close in comparrison to the quality that we love in our Oliver's. No other quality trailers provide electric jacks all around. Use some common sense, use either the jacks or jacks and blocks when needed. You have the best trailer that money can buy, so deal with it and quit sweating the small stuff. Jacking up a tire is simple highschool learning and if you can't figure it out, go back and take the beginning drivers education class again... :)

 

Reed

[KarenLukens]

Raspy wrote:

Maverick wrote:

Canoe12 wrote:

As Anita told me once, if they ignore a problem long enough it seems to go away.

That is some way to run a business.

I just have to laugh. Sheesh, what a policy… Again, I am just sitting here laughing. Really?

Yup, Anita told me the same thing and I laughed then because I’m proactive myself and fix the problems while either filming the fix or taking pictures when needed. Oliver is waiting for us to film our exterior light fixture fix and that will come next month hopefully. It needs to be done in hot weather above 73° This jack thread has been hashed out over and over and some of you guys make to much of a big deal out of the simple things. They are called JACKS for a reason. And Oliver has used these “Screw Jacks” since the beginning. Karen and I are embarking on a new future here in Arizona now, and we will be here in Stanton for atleast a year. We thought about buying a larger trailer since we live full time in our Olli and started looking again, but there are no other trailers that even come close in comparrison to the quality that we love in our Oliver’s. No other quality trailers provide electric jacks all around. Use some common sense, use either the jacks or jacks and blocks when needed. You have the best trailer that money can buy, so deal with it and quit sweating the small stuff. Jacking up a tire is simple highschool learning and if you can’t figure it out, go back and take the beginning drivers education class again… ? Reed

No smiles alowed on this page now... Lol, I always liked the little smiley faces better then the x's myself but it works. So when you see an :) know that there is a smile here... Lol.

[donbob3]

The reason that I consider this to be a "big deal" is that I have had stress cracks in the skin of a prior owned fiberglass trailer

 

that I think came from  torquing the frame.   Removing tires is basic to every Oliver.  We should have clear guidance from

 

the company.

[GeoFish]

The 2017 owners manual says to use the electric jacks.

 

The 2018 manual says to use a jack located at the corner of the steel frame.

 

What has changed?

[Rumline]

What has changed?

 

Considering that as of last week the 2018 Owners Manual had not yet been published, I'm guessing the change was that this thread happened.  ;-)

[roguebooks]

Except for the small inconvenience that it is for the 2018 Legacy Elite II even though the description says it is for the 2018 Legacy Elite. Anyone know when the 2018 Legacy Elite owner's manual will be available? We will be picking up Hull #309 in exactly one week.

[Overland]

That is the usual course of events.

[donbob3]

There may have been a change in the length of the steel support bar on the suspension!   This is why I want guidance from Jason.

[KountryKamper]

My 2018 owners manual supplied at delivery says to use the Jack to change a tire and says nothing about jacking on the corner of the steel frame.

 

Edit

 

I see the 2018 manual has now been posted on the Oliver University and it states to place a jack on the steel subframe so it looks like Oliver has changed the owners manual and answered the original question.

[Raspy]

My 2018 owners manual supplied at delivery says to use the Jack to change a tire and says nothing about jacking on the corner of the steel frame. Edit I see the 2018 manual has now been posted on the Oliver University and it states to place a jack on the steel subframe so it looks like Oliver has changed the owners manual and answered the original question.

 

I'd like to have them give a demonstration on that method.  The subframe is very close to the tire and high off the ground for a normal jack.  Tire changes must be done in less than optimal places and done as quickly as possible when alongside a highway.  The area could be rocky, sloping or soft sand.

 

I'm going with the original plan and what they used to say was OK.  On the road, the built in jacks will get the job done quickly.  In the shop, a floor jack under the spring plate is safe, stable and stress free for the trailer.

 

Unless, of course, if Oliver changes their tune and begins to tell us the trailer jacks will break and drop the trailer.  But that would mean they have a design issue, as it used to be OK.  And that would mean they have to be quiet and ignore it until it goes away.

[GeoFish]

I wrote Jason and this is my question and response.

 

"1. the 2017 legacy Elite 2 owners manual says that you can use the electric jacks to lift the trailer to change a tire.

 

The 2018 manual says to use a jack.

 

What changed? *I’m not sure what changed as we do not manufacture the jacks used on our trailers. Barker Manufacturing has stated that they should not be used for lifting the trailer off the ground even if only lifting one side to change a tire."

 

 

 

My guess is since Barker does not recommend it, Oliver has made this change to reduce any liability if something goes wrong?

 

 

 

 

[Overland]

Barker advertises their jacks as tongue jacks only, so I doubt they'd officially approve of how Oliver uses them anyway.

[Raspy]

I wrote Jason and this is my question and response. “1. the 2017 legacy Elite 2 owners manual says that you can use the electric jacks to lift the trailer to change a tire. The 2018 manual says to use a jack. What changed? *I’m not sure what changed as we do not manufacture the jacks used on our trailers. Barker Manufacturing has stated that they should not be used for lifting the trailer off the ground even if only lifting one side to change a tire.” My guess is since Barker does not recommend it, Oliver has made this change to reduce any liability if something goes wrong?

 

Geo,

 

I think you just got the correct and final answer on this.  So, we use the jacks at our own risk, which, of course, we were doing anyway.  Sounds like you got a logical answer from Oliver.  They designed the trailer to use the jacks for leveling and lifting, but the jack manufacturer recommends we don't lift with them, possibly for liability reasons.

 

I'll stabilize with them, but not to the point of lifting the trailer off the ground,  and I'll use them for emergency tire changes.  In the shop, and for normal maintenance, the floor jack under the spring plates will be used.

 

Another minor point about it:  On the front jack, it's main function is lifting the trailer and holding it off the ground.  And doing so for as long as the trailer is parked.  It takes all the tongue weight, all the time, unless the trailer is hitched up.  Same jack as the rear ones, but it's OK to lift with it and not the rears.  Hmmm.

 

Getting tired of whipping a dead horse here.   I'm comfortable with going ahead with what I was already doing.

[Rumline]

Well to be fair the tongue weight is much lower than the weight on the rear jacks.

[Try2Relax]

Yup, that's a corporate CYA situation. There's no way they want any part of any liability, so "we would not recommend it" and warn against it and now that Oliver has checked they have no choice but to follow the recommendation and change their literature. Can't really say that I blame them, this thread sounds like a perfect example of people looking for a permanent fixed definitive answer, so at a later date they can use it against them. The same reason why a doctor is instructed to never say "sorry" for anything, it is seen as admitting guilt.

 

However, as in most situations, common sense should prevail and personally I feel safer with the trailer being listed by an attached jack, with a large for pas, rated for 3,000 lbs vs a 3,000lb floor jack with wheels, that rolls, or especially a thin, small point, bottle jack, with a smaller base contact.

 

In looking it, I did find that it is recommended that the cover on the jack be removed once a year and inspected.

 

From Baxter

 

"Before replacing cover, clean matging surfaces.

If lubrication is needed, use Mobilith 460 grease or equivalent."

 

[John E Davies]

If a trailer manufacturer installs a system capable of lifting the entire trailer off the ground, then they are jacks, not stabilizers, regardless of what the oral or written instructions call them. Altering the manual does not change this fact. It’s about DESIGN CAPABILITIES, not INTENT.

 

No equipment company will recommend that their equipment is safe for working under the trailer or doing maintenance around the wheels and axles. On every car and  floor jack sold here, there are prominent safety warnings about securing the load with FIXED floor stands, not another service jack, before removing a wheel or crawling under a raised vehicle. Service jack failures, bloody injury and death are common news stories.

 

The jack manufacturer, and also common terminology for as long as trailers have existed, calls the units “tongue jacks”, they are designed for lifting the rated load completely off the ground.

 

The original Oliver concept and advertising was based on the idea that you can park, level your trailer and be camping in minutes, wihout having to fuss around with ramps or stacked pads under the tires like in the Bad Old Days, pre-Oliver.

 

Owners seldom completely read the Owners Manual, it is silly to assume that a vague warning buried in a hundred page book will be sufficient, especially for the second owner, or ones decades from now. The next time you get in your car, look up at the airbag and other safety warning stickers on the visor. This is what Oliver needs to do.

 

If Oliver wants to truly cover itself legally, they must issue a Safety Bulletin and send every single owner large yellow warning placards to be installed beside the switches, and beside each rear jack, stating clearly:

 

“The three permanent jacks are not to be used for servicing the frame or for removing a wheel. To avoid death or serious injury, always place additional fixed steel support stands under the steel subframe and tongue during such maintenance. When extending the jacks, ensure that their base pads are placed on firm level surfaces and the units are not subjected to side loads. Do not remove this sticker.”

 

I will continue to use the jacks for short term lifting tires off the ground, in a safe and level environment, and also for carefully removing wheels, but I won’t crawl around under the trailer without extra supports, no way....

 

For those of you without TPMS, here is a great reason to invest in a pressure warning system. It gives you enough advance notice that you can hopefully get off the highway and find a solid level spot to raise the trailer, instead of trying to use the sloped gravel shoulder of a freeway. I am a firm believer in TPMS and I believe it should be standard equipment on every RV.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[ScubaRx]

I have been involved with Oliver Travel Trailers almost since day one. The fact that we have owned two of their fine trailers should indicate to everyone that I am very pro-Oliver. As well as the Oliver family, I have personally known virtually all the workers on the line during these past 10 years. I can attest that they are all fine, Christian, honest folks with the customer’s best interests at heart.

 

I have placed this post in this thread since it seems that, once again, an old problem has reared its ugly head. That problem being the attacking or speaking disparagingly against Oliver’s employees. I want to make it very clear that from this point on there will be ZERO tolerance for negatively commenting on an employee’s performance or words within this forum. This is not the proper venue for venting toward an individual. Case in point is the recent comment alleged to have been made by Anita in the sales office. I have spoken with Anita concerning this matter. She is very upset about this accusation and vehemently denies ever having said those words. Further, it has been addressed with management.

 

You may feel free to rant on about anything Oliver Trailer related but if you have a problem with an Oliver employee or if you perceive they have acted in a manner that you deem unprofessional, you are to address that matter directly with Scott Oliver.

[Hap]

I thoroughly agree with John Davies about pressure warning systems. I have purchased several over the years, and TPMS has been by far the best. I've seen many RV's sitting on the side of the road with lots of damage not only to the tires but to the RV because it took a long time for the driver to realize that one of their tires was down.

 

Hap

[John E Davies]

I’ve seen many RV’s sitting on the side of the road with lots of damage not only to the tires but to the RV because it took a long time for the driver to realize that one of their tires was down. Hap

Exactly! I spoke with a very unhappy solo traveller, a retired woman on limited income, whose old motorhome blew a rear tire and the exploding tread tore out the entire street side wheel well, which was made of plywood, as well as severely damaging the fresh water plumbing. Not only did she have to buy a complete new set of tires but it crippled her moving home and ruined her trip. I showed her my TPMS and she was very interested.

 

But talk about closing the barn door after the horses are gone....

 

Old stick built trailers can’t tolerate bombs going off under the wheel wells, just search for “RV tire blowout damage” and be prepared to be appalled. My guess is that 95+ % of these catastrophic failures are completely preventable.

 

Ollies are way stronger, but you can damage stuff anyway, and who wants to have to buy a new wheel?

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA