Fold Down Counter Extension

[Overland]

Interesting. That must be new - mine is definitely fiberglass honeycomb. Plywood would have been lots easier to work with.

[DavidS]

You’ll find that the fiberglass holds screws well, especially if you add some 3M 4200 to act as lock tite.

 

What type of screws do you use? John Davies mentioned using stainless screws and nylocks, but your post makes sound like you use some type of wood screw, maybe sheet metal screws?

 

Thanks.

[mossemi]

On hull 193, the shower head holder is bolted to the closet wall with nylon lock nuts in the closet. If you remove 1 of those, you could determine the bolt length. The bolt is flush to the nut so I believe it was trimmed in place. I have also thought about “well nuts” for locations were access to the back side in not accessible although I haven’t tried it yet.

[Overland]

Overland wrote:

You’ll find that the fiberglass holds screws well, especially if you add some 3M 4200 to act as lock tite.

What type of screws do you use? John Davies mentioned using stainless screws and nylocks, but your post makes sound like you use some type of wood screw, maybe sheet metal screws?

Thanks.

Like John, I use stainless everywhere. They aren't that much more expensive, though I've learned that the local stores all get together each morning to remove the hardware I need from their shelves. If it's a place where I can bolt through, I do, using lock nuts and washers; but if it's someplace like the paper towel holder where I want the surface above to remain flat, I'll use a short wood screw that won't penetrate through - assuming that I'm not installing something heavy or that will have a lot of load on it. I've found that they hold really well. I'll usually put some of the 4200 on whatever I'm securing to pretty much glue it in place, and when I do so, I suspect that the screws are really just holding it in place until the adhesive dries.

[Rumline]

They do use wood on the bath wall and the wall dividing the closet and bath. They showed it to me during our tour and said its the only wood in the camper. They said they do it because people want to be able to hang stuff on that wall. In ours I can see the wood inside the closet looking up at the speaker cutout. Here is a picture of that wall being set in place.

 

That is very disappointing. One of the best things about the Oliver, to me, was the lack of wood used. Now I find out they use wood in the highest moisture / temperature differential areas in the trailer? Sigh. I guess another one of my pickup tasks will be to pull any hardware mounted to those walls, caulk, and re-install.

 

I understand re: people hanging stuff, but there are certainly other substrate options besides plywood.

[Townesw]

Well those walls do have a plywood core. I looked at the cutout for the speaker in the closet per KountryKamper’s suggestion. You can actually see the plywood all the way around the cutout for the closet door frame. The total thickness of this wall is “real close” to 1/2 inch.

[topgun2]

At the suggestion of Montanaoliver entries under this thread have been moved to a new thread titled "Using Fasteners and drilling in fiberglass".

 

Bill

p.s. thanks to Mark for the suggestion!

[Raspy]

I installed a small wall made of Corian that blocks sliding pans, or some splashes. It works well while making coffee in the morning while someone is still sleeping in that spot and never gets in the way of sitting there propped up.  There will also be a flip-up counter extension beyond the Corian.  Not there yet.

 

For extra counter space, I switched to a new microwave that allowed me to also include a wine rack and utensil storage in the same cabinet.  The whole front cover folds down to become a work surface of a bout 22" by 16". It's very strong and right next to the sink, in front of the new microwave.

 

I'm installing the catch system now and finishing the trim work.  Pix soon.

 

Here is the Corian "wall".

[hobo]

The paper towel holder is this one. We really like it – it has a spring that keeps the roll from unrolling while traveling, which also gives it just enough tension to make it easy to rip of a sheet one handed.

 

The nets I’ll need to take some photos of and post about. It’s a simple mod that has really helped out day to day organization. We have them over the front door, over the beds, etc. I’ll see if I can take some photos and maybe put them into the Snowball thread later today.

 

Love the paper towel holder too.  Is there a double faced tape that would secure this well enough to avoid drilling holes?

 

Also, I noted the towel bar across the face of the surface just below the counter top.  Can you advise on that also.

[Overland]

I think the underside of the towel holder is hollowed out, so there might not have been anything to hold the tape.  But it was a while ago so I don't remember for sure.  If there's a flat surface, then I'm sure VHB tape would hold it fine.

The towel bar is a refrigerator handle from IKEA.  Another owner pointed me to that.  It was a bit tricky to install since it's screwed in from the back side.  I can't remember if I used a ratcheting bit driver or just a small stubby screwdriver, but I do remember that it required some patience and nimble fingers.  It was a worthwhile addition, though.

[Raspy]

I believe they’re 1/2in plywood with thin fiberglass sheet laminated to both sides.

 

 

 

 

Some of the walls are made with a poly core material, a honeycomb mat with gelcoat and fiberglass on each side.  The wall between the bath and the dinette is about 1/2" thick and cored in this manner with a thin glass and gelcoat layer on each side. Most of it's thickness is air.  Don't count on it holding a screw with any heavy loads, but you can drill through and snug up a nylock nut with a washer on the back side. This is the same as above the dresser under the rear electronic cabinet.  To mount the TV on center, you must drill clear through and add a doubler plate in the floor of the cabinet.  Then screw all that into a sandwich with the TV mount.  I used a thin stainless plate about 8" square and carefully tightened the screws just enough to hold the load and not compress the area.  Inside the overhead cabinets, their bottoms appear to be an insulating rigid foam board with a rubber mat over it.  To mount the paper towel holder, just drill up through and put fender washers on the screws with nylock nuts.  Trim the extra length with a dremel and replace the rubber mat.  There is also wood between the drawers in the sink cabinet and on the bulkheads next to the drawers.  It is about 1/2" thick and is where the drawer slides are screwed on.  Next is the microwave cabinet.  It is all plywood inside with no fiberglass.  Apperas to be about 7/16" thick.

 

Some places are simply chopper gun sprayed and rolled out.  Some have mat glassed in over the chopped glass for re-inforcement (this is used near high stress corners and where the body mounts to the frame, it also is used, I think, on the rear of the lower hull to support the spare tire and stiffen up the whole stern area),  some areas are cored construction (see the pantry door, the closet door, the hatch covers under the bed, and the interior bulkheads),   then there are some aluminum blocks glassed in to mount things like the awning .  Then there is a large metal stiffener that runs across the back in the basement ceiling.

[hobo]

Certainly I feel your pain. When one reads the story about the Outlaw Oliver and the “custom” work that was done there (and elsewhere) and compares that to what appears to be the current situation, I’m sure that it can be a bit frustrating. Even what appear to be fairly simple requests are met with the same response – “no”.

 

However, it seems to me that this looks like a case of “be careful of what you ask for”. We, as a group, clamored for better quality and subjected the Company to a fair amount of abuse/criticism (justified or not) over these types of issues. Then, when the Company decides to concentrate on quality by limiting the number of deviations from the norm (custom work), once again we find ourselves in the position of not liking the result. Hopefully, one day, the Company will once again find itself in a position where they can accept custom work. I believe that I have a better, more comfortable and enjoyable camper because of the suggestions of the owners that came before me. But, in the final analysis, I’d rather have a quality unit that I can then modify and or customize later than a lesser built unit with a bunch of bells and whistles.

 

Bill

 

p.s. cool logo!

 

Absolutely agree with topgun2's assessment.  Oliver's first priority must be to ensure a consistent flow of the production of a quality product for their own survivability. I think we can all agree they build a superior product as evidenced by our purchasing them.  They in fact offer several factory options when ordering to tailor to the needs of most folks.

 

I personally wanted a 2 5/16 inch Bulldog hitch on my trailer and was told that they wouldn't do that as a factory item during production but I could have them do it as an after-the-fact speciality item.  It cost me $261 to have them remove the factory 2" coupling and put on a larger one that they purchased separately.  (Now I will have both as I paid for the original one and therefore want it too.)  I have zero need for it, but I did pay for it.  (Anyone need one?)

 

I have noted too, that Oliver is VERY careful to research from an engineering aspect, any and all changes or upgrades they make to their trailers.  I am sure due to the litigious society we live in today, if they added (for instance) a custom shelf extension or a different appliance and it failed for some reason, or someone cut themselves on the bracketry, they would potentially find themselves liable for damages.  Not necessarily from the Oliver owner but perhaps from someone visiting the trailer. For a small time operation like Oliver, one such lawsuit could be financially devastating.

 

I can fully appreciate Oliver setting a single standard and sticking to it for production efficiency.  In 1909 Henry Ford advised his production and management team that the consumers could  have “any color - so long as it is black.”  Kind of what we're seeing here.

 

Can't wait to take delivery of our unit this spring and take advantage of all the great ideas the current owners have offered up as upgrades and additions.

 

Hobo

[cptdondo]

Totally OT, so excuse the thread hijack.

 

I see you have an Isotherm fridge; this is the option I want.  It looks like it was factory installed?

 

If you went this way, is it the Cruise 130 or 160?  Thanks, and let's start a new thread as I have lots of questions.  :)

[Overland]

Mine is the 130.

Here are two threads already with good info for you -

http://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/compressor-fridge-info-thread-for-those-of-us-considering-switching/

http://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/legacy-elite-ii-dometic-rm2454-refer/

Happy to help with any questions.

[hobo]

I think the underside of the towel holder is hollowed out, so there might not have been anything to hold the tape. But it was a while ago so I don’t remember for sure. If there’s a flat surface, then I’m sure VHB tape would hold it fine.

 

The towel bar is a refrigerator handle from IKEA. Another owner pointed me to that. It was a bit tricky to install since it’s screwed in from the back side. I can’t remember if I used a ratcheting bit driver or just a small stubby screwdriver, but I do remember that it required some patience and nimble fingers. It was a worthwhile addition, though.

 

Overland,  Any chance you could provide a link to the "refrigerator handle from IKEA"?  I can't seem to find it on their website.  Also, "VHB" tape?

 

Thanks, Hobo.

[Overland]

It's the Lansa handle, in I think the largest size.

 

VHB Tape

[Ray and Susan Huff]

On 4/20/2018 at 4:20 AM, topgun2 said:

Certainly I feel your pain. When one reads the story about the Outlaw Oliver and the "custom" work that was done there (and elsewhere) and compares that to what appears to be the current situation, I'm sure that it can be a bit frustrating. Even what appear to be fairly simple requests are met with the same response - "no".

 

However, it seems to me that this looks like a case of "be careful of what you ask for". We, as a group, clamored for better quality and subjected the Company to a fair amount of abuse/criticism (justified or not) over these types of issues. Then, when the Company decides to concentrate on quality by limiting the number of deviations from the norm (custom work), once again we find ourselves in the position of not liking the result. Hopefully, one day, the Company will once again find itself in a position where they can accept custom work. I believe that I have a better, more comfortable and enjoyable camper because of the suggestions of the owners that came before me. But, in the final analysis, I'd rather have a quality unit that I can then modify and or customize later than a lesser built unit with a bunch of bells and whistles.

 

Bill

p.s. cool logo!

Well said . . . . . convenience modifications are easy to make or have made - once you get over the fear of drilling holes! . . . . . but quality issues are usually hard to remedy.  Modification-wise, I wish my dad was still alive.  He was an aerospace engineer (electronic and structural).  Back in the 60's he modified a 1950's era houseboat with a remote control box that ran everything on the boat.  I remember the galley had an old residential propane fridge.  While underway, the wind coming through the galley would blow out the pilot.  He rigged it with an alarm that would sound when the pilot light went out!  There wasn't anything he couldn't build (wood, metal, fiberglass) and no problem he couldn't solve.  And the memories he made for us on the houseboat are priceless 😊

[Ray and Susan Huff]

On 4/18/2018 at 3:05 AM, Overland said:

 

One of the things I asked Oliver to do for me was to install a 12" counter extension to the right of the cooktop that could be folded down when not in use. I figured we could use the extra counter space, plus I wanted a buffer between the cooktop and beds for splatter. This is what they came up with -

 

 

This was perfectly fine and exactly what I was expecting, and we've really enjoyed using it. The only thing I didn't really like was that the hardware was finicky and just didn't work well. And the top ended up about 9" rather than 12", so it was a little small. And we had asked if they could make a piece of fiber granite to match, but they'd have to make a new mould for it so that wasn't going to happen. It also would have been nice if the extension were flush to the counter. So maybe a lot of problems. But we were happy with it nonetheless.

 

But one day when I was running some wires through the pantry, I had removed the countertop beneath for access and just naturally set it down on top of the counter extension. Well, it fit perfectly; and thus, a new project was added to the list.

 

I asked Oliver if they would sell me an extra top and picked it up when I got my trailer out of service a few weeks ago. I believe they charged $150 for it. Since I was redoing the top, I figured I'd search for better hardware as well. I found several options, but the ones that stood out were these from Amarine. They're super heavy duty and stainless steel. They work much better than what we had, and look nicer to boot. The only problem was that they were about a half inch too long for the countertop, so they'd have to be cut to size. But worth the trouble, so I ground the ends off a half inch. If you don't want to go through that trouble, my second choice was these, which are small enough to fit without modification.

 

I cut a ½" piece of plywood that I could screw into to use as the base for the top.  A ½" sheet will sit flush to the lip of the counter, which is what I wanted, but to make the countertop flush to the existing counter, it meant the hinges had to be high enough that I had to grind out a small notch for each hinge to clear.  No big deal - btw, a Dremel with a small sanding cylinder works really well on the fiberglass, and leaves a smooth edge and no chipping whatsoever.  Wear a mask.  Here are the notches -

 

 

The brackets are easy, just mark the holes, drill, and screw.  I used ¾" #10 stainless on the bottom legs and ¼" #8's on the top.  And 3M 4200 along each leg and on each screw going into the fiberglass to prevent it from backing out over time. Since none of the surfaces in the trailer are perfectly 90°, I needed to shim something to make the counter level.  I considered grinding down the latch that holds the brackets at 90°, but that would have been difficult and if I ground off too much, I'd have to buy another bracket.  Instead, I decided to shim between the plywood and fiber granite and then glue the top to the plywood with more 3M 4200, which I'm using so much that I've started referring to it around the house now as Snowball Glue.  It's only about ⅛" max to shim - I used some stainless washers that I had lying about and just glued them down in each of the corners.  I found that the top was a bit warped, so I had to weigh it down while the glue set -

 

 

See, I knew lead acid batteries still had a use.  I let it sit overnight and in the morning, I had what's in the photo above.

 

Cool.

 

BTW, if you want to do this and have mattresses, then you'll want to check their thickness to make sure the extension will clear when folded. Measure down 12" from the bottom lip of the counter. If your mattress is below that, you're good. If you have cushions, then no problem, but you'll need to move one of the back ones out of the way when raising or lowering the top.

 

More pics -

 

I love that sink . . . . the entire galley, for that matter.  Can I just have your Oliver?

 

[Overland]

Lol, thanks. The sink took some work but it really makes a difference. 

[Ray and Susan Huff]

6 minutes ago, Overland said:

Lol, thanks. The sink took some work but it really makes a difference. 

Where did you get the sink?  Did you have to give up the half-drawer below the sink?

[Overland]

It’s a Franke, and yes. Here’s the thread about it. 

[Pat Maundrell]

On 4/19/2018 at 4:55 AM, Overland said:

The paper towel holder is this one. We really like it - it has a spring that keeps the roll from unrolling while traveling, which also gives it just enough tension to make it easy to rip of a sheet one handed.

 

The nets I'll need to take some photos of and post about.  It's a simple mod that has really helped out day to day organization.  We have them over the front door, over the beds, etc.  I'll see if I can take some photos and maybe put them into the Snowball thread later today.

Great, I just ordered the Towel Holder, it looks fantastic.

[C&MCurrie]

Loved this mod so much, I implemented it myself on my smaller Elite I . I was going to cut the wood, but decided to reach out Foy and have him make a beautiful walnut version of what I was envisioning. Of course, he did an outstanding job, couldn’t be more pleased with his craftsmanship. With my KTT mattress I could only go with 8” of width but it still makes a world of difference.