Microwave popped a Circuit, have a 110v plug in on an unaccounted for circuit.

[Vector - Lanham]

My GFI won't reset after my wife started the microwave when the AC wasn't completely turned off. When the AC kicked on, the microwave went dark...and I, can you believe this, had to make some Mac and Cheese for my daughter (I know, I don't want her eating it either, but she went camping.. ;) ) on a camp stove on the picnic table.  oh, the burdens I shoulder :)

 

So, get not reset on the GFI.  The Microwave isn't labeled on the fusebox (see attachment #3).  But, I see from a nice post earlier that it is on the 110 circuit. My 110s are dead, except one that was custom put between the bathroom wall and the closet. I don't know what circuit that one is on.

 

I'll go ahead and upgrade to a nicer GFCI, I think I have a 20 amp GFCI  in my garage that replaced the 15 amp that burned out.  I see no reason to not increase the GFCI to a 20 amp.

 

Okay, any advice is welcome.  thanks, Vector.

[Mike and Carol]

We have not had any problems using the MW when the AC was on. The AC is on its own breaker and the MW simply plugs into a 110 outlet on a separate circuit. So, we are careful when using the MW and another appliance plugged into a 110 outlet. I’m not an electrical expert, but that is my understanding of how things are configured. Having said that.....

 

We had all of our 110 outlets go dead last winter. I checked and rechecked and couldn’t figure it out. So I went to my local RV repair guy and had him check. He found a lose cable in the junction box next to the inverter (under the dinette seat) and also a burned wire in the back of the circuit breaker box. He tightened the cable and replaced the wire in the box and also made sure everything else was tight. Problem solved. I supppose connections can loosen as the miles increase (we had about 30K miles on our trailer when this happened). Mike

 

[Townesw]

Interesting that your 4th breaker label shows refrigerator on a 20 amp but your 4th breaker is actually a 15 amp.

 

I’m curious. Plug something into your custom outlet and trip your number 5 breaker and see if what you plugged in goes off. That custom outlet may be on breaker 5 but if it is wired in before the GFCI I think it will still be hot when the GFCI is tripped.

 

Also, the wires coming from the electrical panel attach to the “line” side of the GFCI. The wires feeding the other outlets attach to the “load” side of the GFCI. If not hooked up right I don’t think it will reset.

 

Bill

[Overland]

Vector, did you ever figure out the problem? I think Bill was on the right track but what I bet they did was connect your custom outlet to the line side of the GFCI instead of the load and that’s why that outlet stayed on. You’re probably right that the GFCI is fried which is why it won’t reset, but of course the other possibility is that you actually have a ground fault somewhere down the line. I’d try unplugging the microwave and seeing if it will reset then, just to rule that out of the equation.

[Vector - Lanham]

I tried unplugging it, and resetting it, per your suggestion....still no current, no response.  for fun I tried both outlets, but nada. It does make sense that the "hot" outlet is on the upside of the GFI...i'll take a better look at it my self..also might see if my electrician will have a gander, of course, my batteries are done too. I noticed that my hot water light won't come on either, i'd forgotten about that.  Got some troubleshooting ahead. I'll snap a picture if I can remember.  Forgive the delay, she's in storage a lot and, ya know..busy life.

 

Thanks to all who have commented, greatly appreciate your time and thoughts.

 

Vector

[Vector - Lanham]

MnC,

 

How many 110V oulets are on the circuit w/ you Microwave?  Does the Microwave have its' own dedicated circuit?

 

thanks, Vector

[Vector - Lanham]

the once working outlet is clearly upstream of the panel, it was spliced in as best i can tell. don't know how i would get access to it now. The other circuit may have 5 110V outlets..including a microwave..trying to figure this out.

[Vector - Lanham]

Hey Bill,

 

Yeah, that custom outlet stayed on, but the others (5 altogether) are off line. there is feedback on the neutral from the microwave outlet where it's pulling from somewhere, had my electrician guy stop by.  All the DC stuff works though.

[Vector - Lanham]

i plugged a fan in and it didn't go on, then i turned the inverter on and it ran, and continued to run after i turned the inverter off.  its the ProWatt Inverter 2000 model.  i'm confused.

[dbp05ret]

My 120v outlets and microwave do not work when hooked up to my shore power. I have taken the following steps to try to troubleshoot the problem. The outlets and microwave work when I turn the inverter on. They work when I have the generator running with inverter off. I have good power coming from my source outlet. I plugged a lamp in at the source outlet and at the surge protector.  The lamp works. So, I know, I have good power going to the Oliver. I checked the breakers under the dinette. All good. I lifted the street side bed and reset the red button. I have reset the GFI receptacle. Still not working. Any suggestions? I called Oliver and left voice message. Any help would be appreciated in the meantime. Thanks!

[dbp05ret]

I  am going through my Oliver with a fine tooth comb since I picked it up last week and got it home. I  could not get my 120 volt outlets to work as my previous post stated. The outlets would work with the generator on and with the inverter on but not when plugged into shore power. I checked the breakers and fuses and the called Oliver Service and left a message. Richie called me back. With him and Jason on the line, the problem was solved. My surge protector on the Oliver was throwing off a error code of E 02. That means the surge protector said there was an error (ground error) with the electrical source that I was plugged in to. I was plugged into a 3 prong outlet in my old barn. So, I grabbed my generator bonding plug out of my generator and plugged it into the barn outlet. Surprise, Surprise, Surprise! The surge protector in the Oliver suddenly said no error and the 120 volt outlets work like a charm. Being a rookie and a newbie to this RV thing, I am blessed to have Oliver Service helping me out. Now wonder what I will learn tomorrow. Thanks Richie and Jason!

[ScubaRx]

So you’ve established that your barn outlet is wired incorrectly. You need to reverse your neutral and ground on that outlet. That should solve the issue.

[dbp05ret]

Bingo! My new barn that holds the Oliver has yet to be wired.  It is good to know this info now. Going forward, the new barn will be done correctly.

[mjrendon]

I carry one of these in my tool kit for checking 110V AC lines.  It will point out the most common issues.  $5 at Amazon - link

 

[topgun2]

Nice find, MJ - that is even cheaper than the equivalent at Harbor Freight ( https://www.harborfreight.com/electrical-receptacle-tester-with-gfci-diagnosis-63929.html )

 

Bill

[Mike and Carol]

I carry one of these in my tool kit for checking 110V AC lines. It will point out the most common issues. $5 at Amazon – link

 

I just put it in my cart. Thanks.

[mjrendon]

To clarify the testers use for a 30A setup, I also keep a 30A to 15A converter with it so that I can use the tester on the power source before plugging into the RV.  If you don't see the correct output (off, amber, amber lights), you will likely have an issue with the power surge suppressor.  The 30A converter is also $5 at amazon - Link

 

 

 

 

 

[Geronimo John]

Darrel:  You mentioned your "Generator Ground Plug".  My assumption is that your plug is to bond the neutral and ground at your generator.  I suspect that some new owners may not be aware of this issue.   I have cut and pasted an article from Fiberglass RV Forum that describes the problem and a simple fix.  It is a good read for those not familiar with the electrical grounding requirements of code and how/why some generators give our Progressive Industries surge and monitoring system fits.

 

Thanks for the reminder,

 

Geronimo John

 

 

 

FROM:  FIBERGLASS RV FORUM – 7 DEC 2018 03:15 PM, Mr. Casita Greg, Senior Member

 

This is a description of the N-G bond plug that I wrote some time back which I posted on some forums:

 

Portable Inverter Generators and Neutral-Ground Jumper for RV Use Only

While we're on the subject of portable generators, all RV electrical systems are wired with their Ground and Neutral buses floated, (un-bonded from each other.) There’s lots of good reasons for this, most specifically it’s an NEC and RVIA code requirement that the safety ground wire never carries any load current, and there can be only one Ground-To-Neutral bonding point in any distributed electrical system in the USA. Now, when you’re plugging your RV into power from a building, such as your garage outlet or a campground pedestal outlet, your RV has its Ground and Neutral buses “bonded” (connected) together externally as part of the service panel’s earthed safety ground system. Again, lots of reasons for this, but the fact is you can only have a single G-N bonding point according to the National Electrical Code and RVIA building codes.

 

So when your RV is powered by a portable generator, and if you have an inline voltage monitor system from a manufacturer such as TRC or Progressive Industries, (like the EMS-30 that I installed in my trailer,) your voltage monitor is checking for the Neutral and Ground voltages to be very close to each other, probably within 3 volts or so. This works well if you’re plugged into shore power that’s properly grounded and bonded, but this voltage protector can be tripped off by plugging your RV shore power plug into a portable generator without an internal Ground-Neutral bond. If you don’t have a voltage protection device on your RV, then you may never know that your generator has a floated neutral (un-bonded G-N bus).

 

Contractor-type generators, such as a Coleman 5000 for example, are generally G-N bonded internally, which is why it runs your RV just fine. However, many portable inverter generators from companies such as Yamaha and Honda (such as a Honda 2000i or EU3000 for example) have floated Neutrals (i.e. no internal Ground-Neutral Bond) since they expect an external G-N bond to happen somewhere else. And while RV-approved generators may have an internal G-N bond, it seems that many of the most popular portable inverter generators from Honda and Yamaha have floating neutrals. So your 2000i or your EU3000 isn’t providing the Ground-Neutral Bond that your RV requires to think it’s getting properly grounded power, while a Coleman 5000 has a Ground-Neutral bond already so it operates your RV properly. Seems crazy, but that appears to be the scenario.

 

It’s pretty simple to wire a special “Ground-Neutral Bond” jumper cable for your Honda or Yamaha generator which will allow you to power your RV through its voltage protection device. You can obtain or make a dummy 15 or 20 amp “Edison” plug with the Neutral (white) and Ground (green) screws jumpered together with a piece of 12 or 14 gauge wire. This G-N jumper plug can be plugged into one of the generator’s unused 20-amp outlets, and the entire generator’s electrical system will be N-G bonded. You can then use the other 20-amp Edison outlet or the 30-amp outlet to power the RV.

 

Just be sure to mark this plug specifically for its intended purpose. It won’t really hurt anything if it’s plugged into a correctly wired home outlet, but it will create a secondary G-N bonding point that could induce ground loop currents and create hum or buzz in a sound system.

 

So this is a generator-only G-N bonding plug which should be only plugged into a portable generator while powering your RV.

 

What's going on inside the plug? Jumper wire between the silver screw terminal and the ground screw terminal. Be careful not to hook to the gold terminal screw. (Which is the "hot" prong and can be easily determined by looking at the two power prongs. The "hot" prong (usually the black wire,) will be the smaller of the two blades on the plug and is the power supply. Do not connect to this one.

 

 

[Mike and Carol]

I carry one of these in my tool kit for checking 110V AC lines. It will point out the most common issues. $5 at Amazon – link

 

 

I ordered one of these and just checked the 110v outlets in the trailer. All show open ground. I’m hooked up to shore power (30a at home). Bad news?

[ScubaRx]

Mike, you’re fine. The neutral to ground bonding is happening in the house.

[Mike and Carol]

Steve, thanks. We don’t want any electric issues while at Q this month!

[Vector - Lanham]

Update: My electrician came over last ~September, he said he was getting feedback from the off the 110 outlet that fed the microwave, which he believed meant there was a ground fault somewhere. He's not an RV guy, but a very good commercial electrician. Cost me a few nickels, btw.  Anyway, i took the Oliver to High Forest, Tennessee yesterday and dropped off with the staff. I look forward to getting it all dolled up. Adding the flex suspension upgrade and looking at a couple more things.

 

My batteries are done, have been for a while. Thinking lead acid or Lithium..hmmm..

 

I've been offline a  lot, kids and going to grad school after work..(WTH is wrong w/ me...it doesn't even increase my income...and i'm older than 1/2 the professors).

 

Vector

[Vector - Lanham]

Jason Essary is quite the engineer, smart guy.  I'm impressed with his thoroughness and attitude.  He's a great asset to Oliver. He's a professional.

[Vector - Lanham]

i have one in the cart. thanks.