Fresh Water Tank Overflow Problem

[roguebooks]

Does anyone here know how to correct the problem of the fresh water tank filling and overflowing while hooked to city water only? It happened early on last March after taking delivery of our Legacy Elite. While hooked up to the city water connection the fresh water tank overflow drain was in full bloom. I called Jason and he instructed me to enter into the basement through the street side rear cushions and turn every valve a quarter turn back and forth. He said they sometimes stick. I also drained a few gallons of water from the tank by opening the valve which is in the same location (a slow process to say the least). The operation worked but was not something I wanted to do on a continuing basis. It did work but it happened again in Apalachicola while recovering from my quadriceps tendon rupture. We live in this trailer full-time and this is simply a pain in the you know what. On our way up to the Oliver factory to have some fiberglass repairs made and a couple other warranty issues performed last June, it happened again. While in Hohenwald Jason looked at it. The service men tried everything and could not figure out why it was doing it.  Has anyone else had this problem? Surely there is an easy answer to a simple plumbing issue.  The reason I am asking for help now is it just happened again yesterday in northern Michigan.  Seems every instance I hook to city water this problem is going to occur. This time I shut off the city water faucet and will resort to using my fresh water tank and pump for my water needs. But this problem must be fixed and it appears I will have to be the one who corrects it. Somebody please help me. Shouldn't have an issue like this with a $60,000 trailer.

[Try2Relax]

Do you ever use the outside shower? I seem to recall that if the handles are slightly open and the shower head is not depressed, then there is bleed between the two systems. I'm not positive though, its just in the back of my mind.

 

Otherwise, isolate out the pump, if necessary disconnect and cap output line, or disconnect input side (with screen filter) and connect a long hose to it and put in sink, this is to test the back flow valve (built into the pump), they sometimes just go bad or don't close fully, it's an easy change, is probably under warranty and it doesn't matter how much you paid, they use them in a Marathon Prevost.

 

How fast is the flow going to fresh tank, does it seem like a bypass leak (slow) or like your trying to fill it?

[roguebooks]

Do you ever use the outside shower? I seem to recall that if the handles are slightly open and the shower head is not depressed, then there is bleed between the two systems. I’m not positive though, its just in the back of my mind.

 

Otherwise, isolate out the pump, if necessary disconnect and cap output line, or disconnect input side (with screen filter) and connect a long hose to it and put in sink, this is to test the back flow valve (built into the pump), they sometimes just go bad or don’t close fully, it’s an easy change, is probably under warranty and it doesn’t matter how much you paid, they use them in a Marathon Prevost.

 

How fast is the flow going to fresh tank, does it seem like a bypass leak (slow) or like your trying to fill it?

 

Yes, we use the outside shower and I will check that today as we have had some problems with it shutting off and on. I recently purchased a replacement shower head but have not had to switch it out yet because I found with good water pressure the shower works fine. I believe the overflow is a slow fill like a bypass. And after doing my operation described in my initial post the fresh water level stays the same until I unhook, leave, and eventually hook back up again the next time I use a city water connection. As to your second suggestion, I may need a few more details to feel confident to perform that operation. I am no plumber, nor am I familiar with plumbing terminology. But I can learn.  Thanks.

 

I understand owning an RV requires maintenance.  I also understand the industry (Oliver) is restricted by the junk available to install due to the mass production of cheaply built RV's. Nonetheless, it is disconcerting and frustrating at times to have to deal with crap, especially with a brand new, very expensive, trailer. My comments in no way reflect my feelings for the Oliver company. I love my Ollie, I just don't enjoy dealing with the garbage they have to sometimes use.

[KountryKamper]

Like Randy said it may be the check valve in the 12 volt pump. If the check valve leaks it allows city water to flow back to the fresh water tank and will fill and overflow it. Escape's had this problem a couple years ago replacing the pump or rebuilding it fixed the problem. Someone was having the problem at the rally this year and I spoke with Phillip Andrews about it and told him all the problems Escape was having.

[roguebooks]

It may be the check valve in the 12 volt pump. If the check valve leaks it allows city water to flow back to the fresh water tank and will fill and overflow it. Escape’s had this problem a couple years ago replacing the pump or rebuilding it fixed the problem. Someone was having the problem at the rally this year and I spoke with Phillip Andrews about it and told him all the problems Escape was having.

 

I will have to text Jason and ask him if he checked the 12 volt pump's check valve. Hope it isn't that, but it very well could be.

[roguebooks]

Update: About two hours ago I ran the outdoor shower for a few seconds making sure the faucets were full out and then completely shut off before turning the faucets off again. I then turned the hose-connected faucet at the city water connection back on, went inside the Ollie and turned the pump off. I then ran some city water through the lines for a couple seconds. When I returned from both a nature hike with Bob the dog as well as a wonderful bike ride on the Hart-Montague Bike Trail, there was not yet any overflow from the fresh water tank. We shall see if this promising development maintains its good result. However, Bob and I are leaving here in a couple hours and heading to Montague, MI with the Ollie in tow.  FYI: My wife Beverly is in California taking care of a grandson instead of getting into trouble with me in Michigan. Will advise.

[roguebooks]

Update #2: The fresh water tank never did overflow again before we packed up yesterday to leave the park. The tank gauge read 67% which was due most likely to the trailer not being level and nose pointing down probably at least two inches because I did not want to unhook for only one night. It is quite possible the not-level trailer contributed, or was the catalyst, for the overflow problem. Nonetheless, no more overflow happened after following Randy's suggestion on the outside shower.  Upon arriving at our new campsite yesterday afternoon we leveled the trailer perfectly (unhooked as we are staying here three nights), hooked up to city water, and waited for the overflow.  It has been twenty hours so far and still no overflow problem.  Out of curiosity (instead of due diligence) I checked the gauge this morning and the fresh water tank read 100%.  This tells me the system is working properly and the glitch is somewhere between the pump and the trailer not being level.  If I can correct the overflow by simply turning off the hose, turning on the pump, running the shower off the fresh water tank, and then securely turning off the faucets before turning the city water back on, then I am okay with it. It just aggravates me to have to tear the bed up to get into the basement on a regular basis. I will continue to add updates, if needed, for anyone interested or who might have the same problem one day. For those who don't, or are not interested, my apologies. And please delete me.

[KountryKamper]

I just don't see how the outdoor shower could back fill the fresh water tank. I'm still going with the pump check valve. Please do keep us posted on what happens. You have my curiosity up.

[Overland]

If I'm thinking about it right, this would be the way to test it:

 

[attachment file=Screen Shot 2018-07-31 at 10.37.39 AM.png]

 

1. Shut Valve A.  If that stops the water, then you've eliminated that valve, meaning that the problem is either the pump or Valve B.  Also if it works, then you could temporarily leave that valve shut and stay on city water.  If it doesn't stop the water, then obviously Valve A is bad.

 

2. If step 1 worked, then make sure that Valve B is shut and then unscrew the filter on the pump.  Slowly reopen Valve A.  If water starts to come out of the pump, then the problem is the pump.  If not, then the problem will have to be Valve B.

[John E Davies]

I understand owning an RV requires maintenance. I also understand the industry (Oliver) is restricted by the junk available to install due to the mass production of cheaply built RV’s. Nonetheless, it is disconcerting and frustrating at times to have to deal with crap, especially with a brand new, very expensive, trailer. My comments in no way reflect my feelings for the Oliver company. I love my Ollie, I just don’t enjoy dealing with the garbage they have to sometimes use.

Be aware that there ARE much better quality parts that can be used in an RV, but they are typically used in the very high end overland rigs that may venture into Third World countries.

 

I think OTT is missing the boat by not offering an upgraded marine appliance package, for example diesel fired cooktop, diesel combined hot water/ cabin heating system, and a DC compressor fridge. Eliminating the propane with its huge safety hazards would make a great trailer way better. Standard RV appliances are crap, pardon my language., being built in the cheapest manner possible with a built-in short life span.

 

A few owners are upgrading to a compressor fridge either from frustration or when their propane unit dies. I have not heard of anyone ditching the propane systems entirely.

 

The downside to installing higher quality parts is that folks like you who think $60K is expensive would have a heart attack when seeing the new MSRP. A few folks might buy, but most would shake their heads in wonder and go with the cheap stuff. It would not be a viable sales strategy in this current market.

 

https://earthroamer.com/heating-ventilation-air-conditioning/

 

https://earthroamer.com/water-systems/

 

https://earthroamer.com/electrical-systems/

 

CRAFTSMANSHIP:

It’s a common cliché that the “devil is in the details,” but nowhere is this more true than with electrical systems. An intelligently designed electrical system is useless if poorly routed wires chafe and short out or improperly terminated electrical connections come apart. Electrical failures can be much more than just an annoyance, an improperly installed electrical system can result in an electrical fire and potentially be life threatening. Good electrical systems require installation by a skilled craftsman who cares. Our electrical technicians have many years of experience and training, and are true craftsman who take great pride in their work. For them, electrical system installations are a work of art and a source of pride.

 

Unfortunately, Oliver really needs to address their electrical build quality. It is disappointingly sad as delivered..... but better than the RV industry average, I suspect.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[roguebooks]

John E., The next time it happens I will attempt your exercise. Thank you. So far, so good. Though no plumber, I do think it has something to do with both the pump and valves. Setting two inches on a downward slope to nose may have commenced whatever caused the tank to overflow at a reading of 67%. Interesting to me that when leveled, and reading 100%, the ground stayed dry as a bone.  I rely on you good folks of the forum to keep me going, and in extreme respects, in the long run, keep me alive.

[SeaDawg]

Truth is, we always fill the tank, and work from the tank.

 

We do the same on delivery RVs. We don’t trust incoming pressure.

 

Easy enough to fill the tank, and work from what we know we have.

 

Sherry

[ScubaRx]

...Be aware that there ARE much better quality parts that can be used in an RV, but they are typically used in the very high end overland rigs that may venture into Third World countries...

 

And therein lies the answer to "why" these parts are not used in your everyday units, or even the Oliver Travel Trailer.  99.9% of owners have no desire to go very far off road or certainly to venture into "Third World countries" so there's no vital need for higher end appliances.  Very few people's lives will ever depend on the reliability of the water pumps and refrigerators that are used in our Oliver's.

 

 

...I think OTT is missing the boat by not offering...

 

...Unfortunately, Oliver really needs to address their electrical build quality. It is disappointingly sad as delivered…..

 

John, overall you seem disappointed with the capabilities and build quality of your Oliver.  I'm surprised you've not traded for an Earthroamer or whatever.

[John E Davies]

John, overall you seem disappointed with the capabilities and build quality of your Oliver. I’m surprised you’ve not traded for an Earthroamer or whatever.

I am 100% unhappy about the poor quality of my electrical system, which hopefully is no longer a problem in current production. I would like to see pictures of the electrical bays in the latest trailers to compare to my tangled rat’s nests. Otherwise I love the trailer and believe it offers the best bult RV in its price range.

 

OTH I think naming and advertising the trailer a “legacy”, that can get passed on to grandkids, is more than a little deceptive. The superior quality frame and hull will stand the test of decades of use - the cheap systems inside and underneath, no way. Which I think is a shame.

 

Surely you are joking about buying an Earthroamer. Maybe when I win the Lottery.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[Rumline]

Where are your rats nests?  I have a pretty recent build and I'm happy to take photos if you tell me where to look.

[John E Davies]

Where are your rats nests? I have a pretty recent build and I’m happy to take photos if you tell me where to look.

 

Remove the streetside vertical bulkhead in the overhead rear media bay, look behind the breaker panel. There is a ground bus there and the main harness for the rear equipment enters there. Lots of splices.

 

Remove the round inspection port to access the area behind the stereo head unit and solar control.

 

Take pics, post them in a brand new thread and I will post mine. I had rat’s nests pretty much everywhere there are switches, cables and coaxes. I secured most of them with lots of nylon ties, but that is a band aid fix. I complained to and talked with the factory and they assured me that they would do better. After a year and a half, this would be a good reality check.

 

(BTW, check the solar cable terminal screws while you are in there. They are “supposed to be” checked every 30 days as per the Zamp solar manual. LOL. Mine were tight.)

 

Thanks.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[ScubaRx]

 

...OTH I think naming and advertising the trailer a “legacy”, that can get passed on to grandkids, is more than a little deceptive...

 

 

John, I know you've not been within the Oliver fold for very long so you don't know the whole story.  Perhaps a little history is in order. The name "Legacy" has nothing to do with the fact that our trailers will be here long after we've passed on and gone to our reward.  It was chosen by the Oliver family to honor one of their own.  You see, Jim Oliver, the patriarch of the Oliver Clan and Oliver Technologies Inc. which includes Oliver Travel Trailers had a twin brother - John Oliver.  It was in the mid 2000's when these two men envisioned building a better molded fiberglass travel trailer than all the others that were available.  Unfortunately, John passed away before that dream could come be realized but Jim carried it to fruition, and it is John's picture on horseback that adorns the front of the very first Oliver that was built.  So, it was to John's "legacy" that our trailers are dedicated and I feel sure there was no deception intended.

[Overland]

Neat story, though I have no doubt that with care our trailer will last 20+ years.

[John E Davies]

In regards to the name “Legacy”, that is a touching story. Thank you.

 

However, the trailers are really a MEMORIAL to John Oliver. They could have picked the name Tribute - “a gift or service showing respect, gratitude, or affection”.

 

“Legacy” usually means that the object (or money) is to be passed on to a later generation in a person’s will. It is the first and primary definition, and combined with their heavily promoted lifetime hull warranty, Legacy strongly implies that these trailers are built for decades of use. I have read in several places about this interpretation, I did not invent it. I don’t have any links or references....

 

It is really a moot point, but a confusing one for me. When I bought my trailer, that is what I believed the name meant. I am sure I am not in the minority.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[Rumline]

The name “Legacy” has nothing to do with the fact that our trailers will be here long after we’ve passed on and gone to our reward.

 

Hmm, I'll take the Oliver company at their word.  At the end of their Plant Tour video on YouTube:

 

"We are building a product here that the Oliver family can be proud of, and that you can own now and pass it down to the next generation.  That's why we call it the Legacy."

 

It may have started as a tribute to John's legacy, but they are now marketing it as being "your" (the buyer's) legacy.

[roguebooks]

Update#3:  Running completely off the fresh water tank for the next few weeks. I will update when I get hooked back up to city water connection. In the meantime, you fellas with these random bones of contention, please take your discussion elsewhere. This is a serious thread meant to help me and any others who might have the same problem sometime. You will run the good people off. I love my trailer, I love the Oliver company, and they have already proven to me that they stand behind their product. Nothing is perfect. I need to learn all I can about taking care of what I can. I appreciate any help I can get.

[Raspy]

Olivers are not perfect, but it might be a false comparison to claim that the cost of the trailer is so high that there is no excuse for any part of it to be less than someone's interpretation of perfection.  Or to assume that things like a 12v fridge is an upgrade that should be standard equipment.

 

I really like my propane fridge and don't want a 12v unit.  I had a 12v unit on my boat and didn't like it.   To me, a propane fridge is not cutting corners.  It's silent and can run for weeks on a propane bottle.

 

The Shure-Flo water pump is a fine unit.  They are used on boats too and have proven to be very reliable and easy to get.  Sometimes, even if something is not the absolute best quality, it is still the best choice if it is reasonably priced, reliable and easy to get.  "Best" can be interpreted in a number of ways and it doesn't always mean the most expensive.

 

Oliver really shines on most of their hardware.  The cabinet latches, grab handles and shore tie plug, for instance, are the best I've seen and likely to last a lifetime.

 

Then there is the amazing bodywork.  I'll take that over anything else I've seen.

 

Oliver is improving their wiring systems and mine is/was in need of improvement.  I have a rats nest of Scotchlock splices in one area that is disappointing.  I found it because various lights quit working.  Mine would not charge from the TV and I found it had a missing ground wire.  My battery cables are made from #8 house wire and were chafing in the battery compartment, threatening to short out and cause serious problems.  And finally, they only wired the earlier trailers for the options ordered, so it is hard to go back and add equipment later, like a cell phone booster.  Now, the wiring harnesses are standardized.

 

I suspect that by the time Oliver gets up to about hull 700 or so, they will have the process streamlined to near perfection.  But those trailers will cost twice what mine did.   I spotted weaknesses in mine the first time I stepped in, like the window shade frames, the bare fiberglass countertop and the plastic suspension bushings that are barely good enough for a dump trailer,  but I never expected perfection, just an excellent design that was built with care and consideration.   And that is exactly what most of it is.  So, when I see something disappointing, I just take care of it and move on.  I've now upgraded a number of things myself and was glad to do it, such as a stainless steel countertop, heavy duty suspension parts,  the water tank fix and improvements in the wiring.

 

I also gave up on the DVD player and got tired of the microwave trying to jump out of its cabinet.  I've now re-designed the entire microwave cabinet with a different microwave and added a mini wine rack and cooking utensil storage all in the same space, with a beautiful closing door that matches the rest of my countertop pieces and will not let anything "escape".  So, the beat goes on and I like my trailer, even though it is by no means perfect.

 

Here's a list of 30 of my "improvements" (and I'm not mad at Oliver), and six more that are on the list:

 

1. Re-designed microwave cabinet with new microwave, wine storage, and utensil storage

 

2. Fixed fresh water pickup system with spin welded fitting and dip tube

 

3. Repaired numerous wiring glitches including poor battery wiring, Scotchloc connectors and lack of a ground wire from the tow vehicle

 

4. Upgraded wheels to a stronger design and added full-sized spare tire

 

5. Added a spare tire lock and moved license plate to the body near the left tail light.

 

6. Installed stainless steel countertop over plain fiberglass top that came standard

 

7. Installed new kitchen sink faucet with shutoff valves under the sink

 

8. Added accumulator tank in the freshwater system  (very important)

 

9. Added side backsplash next to the stove

 

10. Added extension to tank drain connection in the back bumper area

 

11. Installed new DVD player and Bose speaker

 

12. Moved the TV to center with a new bracket

 

13. Added additional memory foam pads under the mattress

 

14. Built custom jack stands to work with the electric jacks, to eliminate the round foot on the bottom of the jacks, and the blocks

 

15. Added a clothesline in the bathroom

 

16. Added a paper towel holder

 

17. Fixed overhead door catches that kept opening while driving

 

18. Still working on a fix for the window covering frames that like to fall off

 

19. Went to a 2 5/16" bulldog coupler (not necessary, but I wanted it).  The original 2" coupler was not bolted correctly and was beginning to elongate the mounting holes

 

20. Added quick disconnect outside propane connection

 

21. Added 8" access port on the front of propane cover

 

22. Modified the roll-out battery tray to eliminate the play in the system and keep the batteries from hammering the catch.

 

23. Added a spray head and hose to the toilet valve.  (not worth doing, it was a mistake)

 

24. Added a stick on light in the closet after I could not seem to fix the existing factory light that does not work

 

25. Installed a new clear/smoked door glass and pull up shade combo in the entry door  (love it)

 

26. Installed two grab rails on the entry screen door for easy closing of the door and to hang towels

 

27. Installed a custom "coyote howling at the moon" logo on the front of the trailer

 

28. Upgraded to 30 lb propane cylinders

 

29.  Currently upgrading all the wiring in the battery compartment and adding a solar plug for portable panels.

 

30.  Adding a reading light over the street side twin bed

 

Projects coming up:

 

Kick panel on the lower part of the screen door

 

Install a 3000-watt inverter

 

Fix broken bath sink faucet, add shutoff valves, create access to the faucet connections and flex hose

 

Install a bathroom door hold open magnet

 

Install cell phone booster

 

Considering a rear bike rack

 

 

[Raspy]

Does anyone here know how to correct the problem of the fresh water tank filling and overflowing while hooked to city water only? Shouldn’t have an issue like this with a $60,000 trailer.

 

The problem has nothing to do with the price of the trailer.  There is no magic cutoff where problems stop at a certain purchase price point.  Mechanical things are not always perfect even when new and installed carefully.

 

The most likely problem is a leaking pump check valve. This is likely caused by a piece of debris in the new piping or something like that.

 

The easiest way to tell if your check valve is leaking is to shut off the street water supply and turn on the pump.  Make sure all air is out of the system (this includes the water heater).  Then shut off all faucets and wait a while.  If the pump occasionally cycles, when you have not turned on any faucets, the check valve is likely leaking.  I say likely because it could be something else, but it's most likely the check valve in the pump.  This may fix itself over time by passing a piece of debris that is stuck in it, but if not you'll have to take it apart and find the problem or re-build it with a kit from sure-flo.  If the leak is just a drip, you may not see it from the tank overflow for a week and the tank fills at that slow drip rate, but the pump will cycle enough to tell you if the check is leaking.  Do you know if you have an accumulator?  If so, the pump will cycle less often.

[mountainoliver]

If the problem turns out to be a check valve that doesn’t seal properly l can guess why. I constantly find plastic pieces (such as you would see from drilling) in the suction filter screen at the pump and in my anti bug screen covering the fresh tank drain under the trailer. This could be your debris source. You’ll just need to flush everything out well.

[Spike]

I think naming and advertising the trailer a “legacy”, that can get passed on to grandkids, is more than a little deceptive.

 

As I remember, it was named "legacy" to honor one of the deceased Oliver brothers who helped with the design of the original trailer.