Timken Wheel Bearings - USA manufacture.

[BackofBeyond]

Seems there is  a good amount of conversation concerning wheel bearing quality. I'm not gonna argue, for or against,  but I did manage to find USA made Timken bearings, on the WWW  site that sounds like Paragon...… but starts with an Amaz  ..... mine came from RDV bearings - set 4 - are the L44649/L44610 and set 17  - are the L6811/L68149. About $22 per wheel not including seals. With Prime shipping is free.

For what it's worth - they look to be visibly superior to the china bearings I purchased.

RB

[Townesw]

I service my own bearings. I ordered enough USA made Timken bearings and seals to do all 4 hubs twice. The Timken bearing sets were individually packaged in a sealed plastic wrap inside a box unlike the Chinese bearings I see usually loose in a clamshell blister pack. I agree with BackofBeyond, the bearings themselves look much better than Chinese bearings.  I replaced the original bearings and seals at 6000 miles with USA made Timkens. I put the other 4 sets, along with a couple of extra hub caps and 2 packs of desiccant in a 30 cal ammo can. Before I service bearings again I will order 4 more complete sets to have on hand. When I service a hub I have to use a new seal, so all all I’m saving by cleaning and repacking all of the used bearings is about $44, so I just go ahead and use new bearings and seals on all 4 hubs. 
 

 

I removed the wheel centers from all 4 wheels. I check the hub temps by hand or non-contact thermometer when I stop after having been running at speed for a while. I can also adjust bearing play if necessary without having to remove the tire/wheel assembly and then go through the complete wheel nut re-torque procedure. 

 

 

I installed Dill TPMS sensors inside each tire. The Dill system displays the pressure and temperature inside each tire. Whoever is riding co-pilot occasionally checks the Dill display to see if a tire is running a pressure much lower than the rest or a temperature much higher than the rest. It’s interesting to watch the pressure and temperature vary due to ambient air temperature, speed, road surface, wet or dry pavement, location of the sun, etc.

https://www.dillvalves.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Trailer-TPMS-Catalog-Page.pdf

Well that’s enough rambling. I guess I should have just said that I agree with BackofBeyond regarding USA vs. Chinese bearings 😜.

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Townesw
Additional pontification

[John E Davies]

I would be really interested in a set of genuine Timkens for $5.00 .... i am pretty sure that those are counterfeit. Amazon and everywhere else is awash with fake bearings.

Can you please post a link to that Amazon page?

Thanks,

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited March 7, 2020 by John E Davies

[Townesw]

John I didn’t save a link to where I bought these bearings, but they were packaged just like other Timken bearings I have handled in the past and they look and feel better than Chinese bearings I have seen and handled.  I’m satisfied with them.  If I send you my spares will you let me know if these are real or counterfeit?  
Thanks,

Bill

[katanapilot]

We don’t get our Oliver until early May. Are you guys saying the Dexter axles are equipped with Chinese bearings? Have any of you installed bearing buddies or equivalent devices on your trailers? And I agree with John -  it’s unlikely a $5 bearing is a genuine made in USA Timken. I would be fine with most of the Japanese bearings too. 

[John E Davies]

I personally cannot guarantee ANY Timken bearing is authentic.  I don’t have the knowledge. Some of them look good and the packaging does too. There are quite a few online articles about this problem, I’ll see if I can find some links to post.

The ONLY way to be sure is to buy from a Timken authorized dealer, locally if possible. They order direct from Timken and have a solid paper trail, plus they sell to industry so they would not stay in business long if they provided bogus parts to critical equipment like power generating plants.... I will post my receipt from my last purchase. 

If you order “real” Timkens from an Amazon vendor and in three months that vendor is gone, that is a HUGE red flag..... that is why I asked for a link from Bill.

Are Ollie Dexter axle bearings made in China? Without a doubt.. Dexter probably has a supplier they trust to make “adequate” parts, but for sure they are still very poor quality. And the seals are complete trash and failure prone, taking out your brake when one leaks. Then you have to replace both on that axle....

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited March 7, 2020 by John E Davies

[Frank C]

The Chinese are great at copying product, all the way down to the packaging details.  I've had personal experience with one of my own medical device product designs being counterfeited in China, right down to copying all of our packaging, labeling and company logo, same font, etc.  and even still being labeling as "Made in USA" with our US factory address, and even with a UL approval mark on the labeling, etc.  All bogus and a cheap copy.    It took a visual inspection of the internal parts of the device to see the difference, so a user would never know, until it failed.   I've worked with Chinese suppliers and factories for many years, including spending a lot of time there doing a joint venture factory setup, and one of the lessons I learned is that the Chinese companies have no qualms at all about stealing intellectual property (patents), cheating on specs, bribes to local officials, falsifying test data on safety agency reports like UL, etc.  I've always said that China has become the worst possible combination of communism, capitalism and corruption all rolled into their way of doing business.  

I wouldn't trust any "Timken" supplier on Amazon unless they were verified as an authorized Timken distributor.

Here's a link specifically about fake Timken bearings.

http://www.thecounterfeitreport.com/product/271/Timken-Bearings.html

Edited March 7, 2020 by FrankC

[BackofBeyond]

All good points and send a caution to the buyer. I contacted two bearing supply distributors in my general area, and the response was not what I expected. Seems business must be too good. The bearings I reviewed from RDV bearings are not comparable to those I got from Dexter - at least to a critical eye, much better in terms of machining, fit, soundness. Perhaps there is a way to ascertain the absolute origin, and maybe authorized dealers never get fakes. It begs the question as FrankC  has pointed out -" The Chinese are great at copying product, all the way down to the packaging details."- -- thus it seems almost impossible to prove. 

So when RDV tells me they are an Authorized distributor, where do I go to prove this claim... Maybe Timken will verify??

They were not $5 - as I stated  the cost was $11 and $12 per. very similar to what the one USA local seller offered me - but gave  no way to contact them about purchase or shipping...…, 

Seems this Corona virus thing is also highlighting the fact that a very large part of our drug industry supply  is manufactured in China, and also under suspicion...….

Ah globalism...

[Frank C]

Here's a link to Timken.  They are well aware of the bogus bearing issue.  I'm sure they would be happy to provide info on their authorized distributors.   I'm going to contact them to get some authorized east coast distributors.   I'll post here if/when they reply.

Contact the Company:

Program Manager
Timken
1835 Dueber Avenue, S.W.
Canton, OH 44706
United States
(330) 471-6829
https://www.timken.com/contact-general/

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by FrankC

[bhncb]

While this is somewhat new, look on the back of the bearing box for the sticker with a QR code. You can get the "WBA Check" app, which will scan and verify these codes. This applies to other manufactures, not just Timken.

[DavidS]

13 hours ago, Townesw said:

John I didn’t save a link to where I bought these bearings,

If you bought them from Amazon, you can find out the details on the purchase as well as the supplier. Log onto Amazon, and click the Returns & Orders button at the upper right. There is a Search All Orders field, where you could enter Timken or Ball Bearings. It will return your order details, along with a link to the exact product you ordered. 

Amazon never forgets.... 

[BackofBeyond]

2 hours ago, FrankC said:

Here's a link to Timken.  They are well aware of the bogus bearing issue.  I'm sure they would be happy to provide info on their authorized distributors.   I'm going to contact them to get some authorized east coast distributors.   

 

 

 

Yep, I have already done that through their web site.

Amazon also has the ability to question the seller, lets se what they have to say....

And the 

1 hour ago, bhncb said:

While this is somewhat new, look on the back of the bearing box for the sticker with a QR code. You can get the "WBA Check" app, which will scan and verify these codes. This applies to other manufactures, not just Timken.

seems pretty cool.

In about 20 more posts we will have this figured out.....

RB

[John E Davies]

It is so very frustrating. I tried the bearing check app and it crashed n my IOS devices. This Amazon ad looks good - the seller is "Timken".

 

So you run it by Fake Spot and get this:

 

You click on the seller "Timken" and all you get is a bunch more bearings, nothing at all about the seller. Who is fake anyway, since the genuine bearings and races are not sold separately.

 

 

I am 99% sure mine are the real deal, they look correct, with high tech label, and the inner wrapper over oiled parts (but mine do NOT have the QR code - so maybe they are Old Stock?)  :

I paid $145 for the eight bearing sets, locally at a professional supply house (part of the BDI network). The seals cannot be identified by inspection - they say "National" on the outside, but they are definitely high quality and have the orange sealer material where they go into the race cavity.

See interesting video: "Follow the Chinese authorities in a raid against a counterfeit bearing workshop. In this video you can see how low cost bearings are branded to look like high quality premium bearings. Even small scale operations use using sophisticated equipment to mark the products to look like original products. The poor working conditions of the under-age workers are also displayed."

Raid on Chinese Counterfeit Bearing Manufacturer

I found a dozen or more links about the problem, this is typical:

https://rogtecmagazine.com/timken-counterfeit-products-are-a-trap-for-end-users/

So I guess what we should be asking, is "Should I worry about cheap bearings in my Ollie?" My answer is, don't lose sleep over it, but carry a spare set like this and a pound of bearing grease. You may not have the skill or tools to install them out in the boonies, but most likely somebody around you can help. Monitor the hub temperature with a temp gun or a careful finger; a distressed bearing will run hot. This is in my kit, and I wouldn't hesitate to install it to complete a long trip, but I would not INTENTIONALLY replace all my bearings with this kind.

If you go far out into the boonies, or way up into Alaska, or are super anal like me, I think you will sleep better knowing you have genuine high quality parts in your hubs. Nobody wants to deal with a blown or melted bearing beside the road...

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

[Townesw]

John, compare these to your boxes. Do they look the same?

 

Also, zoom in real close and see if you have these details on your boxes

I couldn’t see them until I zoomed in to read the very small print in the long and lat lines. I bought these June 2019.

[John E Davies]

8 hours ago, FrankC said:

one of the lessons I learned is that the Chinese companies have no qualms at all about stealing intellectual property (patents), cheating on specs, bribes to local officials, falsifying test data on safety agency reports like UL, etc.  I've always said that China has become the worst possible combination of communism, capitalism and corruption all rolled into their way of doing business.  

Many years ago when I was an A&P I attended a Cessna business jet training class in Wichita, the instructor was fresh back from China, and he told us that the entire concept of "life limited parts" (which are components that the manufacturer mandates in the type certificate - the "official" description of the aircraft) was entirely alien to the Chinese bosses and techs.... He told us that he could not get them to understand that a part like a wing attach bolt that was removed to be scrapped due to its number of hours in service, or cycles, could not just be repainted, retagged and slapped onto another airplane. The practice of mutilating a part to a condition where it could never be reused was met with horror. He said that it was just the way the Chinese culture has evolved.

I can't say how they deal with used aircraft parts these days, but as FrankC mentions, the flood of fake bearings, electronics, shoes, Rolexes, etc, etc is a symptom of their cultural and complete disregard for intellectual property. They just do not seem to care, it is just part of doing business... One bearing supplier advertised that he could supply bulk loads of bearings with any brand name and type of packaging, just say the word.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

[John E Davies]

25 minutes ago, Townesw said:

Also, zoom in real close and see if you have these details on your boxes

Yes mine have those two very faint circular/ line watermarks (?) as well as teeny weeny "TIMKEN TIMKEN TIMKEN" written along all the Lat/ Log lines.  They are so very small I had to use a 10X hand lens to read them - they must be laser engraved because you could not print anything that small that could be read.  Here is mine:

If this is some fake-proof branding that Timken uses, then I am not surprised that I have never seen it mentioned. Maybe we should not tell the world about this so China does not start doing it ... Good catch!

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by John E Davies

[BackofBeyond]

All good stuff,  -- John - you make a good point - is this really all that important - probably not as much as it is made out to be. I have wondered about the position Dexter takes with their supplier - and considering the shear number of components they sell, they must have done due diligence on the quality and reliability of the bearings in their components.

I'll continue to monitor the wheel at each stop, and use the pressure/temp system to monitor while moving. Perhaps I will catch a catastrophic failure before it happens. 

However, the frustration we feel when trying to verify authenticity is real - and unfortunately permeates every facet of the consumer driven society. I may  keep on this journey - just  to find out the answer. It pisses me off that somewhat (or better) intelligent folks..... have such a hard time trying to find out this answer. 

Thanks too all for the comments.

RB

[BackofBeyond]

And Lastly - I got a response from RDV bearings the Amazon seller - they stated  " these are 100% GENUINE TIMKEN BEARINGS MADE IN USA"

Timken has asked me to send a few pics of the bearings and packaging - which are very similar to those John D posted, but with the additional QR stamp. I am thinking the bearings are as advertised. 

All have a great day, go camping, which will help one stay away from crowds. Sounds good.

RB

 

[Frank C]

On 3/10/2020 at 2:03 PM, BackofBeyond said:

And Lastly - I got a response from RDV bearings the Amazon seller - they stated  " these are 100% GENUINE TIMKEN BEARINGS MADE IN USA"

I sent an email to Timken about their bearings showing up on Amazon and I specifically asked about the seller RDV and this is the response I received from Timken:

———-

“Thank you for your inquiry.  We do not recognize the Amazon seller you referenced in your email. “

———

Maybe RDV is getting them from another Timken distributor so they may be legit.  
 

In Timken’s reply, they did point me to an authorized dealer here in Pennsylvania:

”Please be advised that the following is an authorized automotive aftermarket distributor in Somerset PA. “

 

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by FrankC

[BackofBeyond]

I sent Timken pictures as they requested. Lets see what happens.

[theOrca]

This forum sure costs me money, and I don't even have possession of my Olly yet!

I ordered both types of wheel bearings and the bearing seals from Amazon. The bearings came with QR code boxes that scanned and came up as valid. However, the 473336 bearing seals did NOT come with a QR code, In fact they are plainly labeled "made in Taiwan." The label does have the almost invisible "slash-zero" symbol embedded in the label over North and South America, but the latitude longitude lines have Chinese characters instead of the word Timken.

I think I've been had! I will be calling Timken on Monday morning, and will post the results here. If these seals are counterfeit they are going back to Amazon...

[bhncb]

The WBA validation program (QR code) was instituted for/by member bearing mfgs. There is not much to be gained by name-recognition counterfeiting comparatively low cost seals.  Timken seals are actually National Seals in a Timken box with the National part number on it. Timken doesn't even bother assigning it's own part numbers. "Made in Taiwan" means nothing as far as authenticity. In the future, you might be able to save a little by just ordering Nationals.

BTW: I learned a long time ago to not start stockpiling spare parts for something until the something was actually sitting in my driveway.

[theOrca]

After having an Airstream (may it rest in Hades forever), where nothing was ever readily available, I plan on reveling in the stockpile of parts I will accumulate and have for the Oliver...

[SeaDawg]

Well, we did have to replace bearings last year. But, our trailer is over 12 years old.

I can live with that.

Sherry 

[mountainoliver]

Last week I ordered two sets of Timken bearings and seals thru a local industrial power transmission supplier. I used these folks often when I was working and feel like I can trust them. They said that they receive their stock directly from Timken so I guess that wherever Timken has their products manufactured....well you know. I’m sure if they are made in a Timken plant they’ll be good quality. The guys did say that Timken bought out National seals so they are now one in the same. That explains why part numbers cross over. The seals I ordered were Chicago Rawhide brand. I’m very comfortable with these as I have used many seals of this brand before I retired.  I didn’t write down the cost numbers but I will say this, that they weren’t anything like $5.00 a piece. I’m supposed to pick up my order Monday or Tuesday, so I’ll see then where they were made. I guess that you could just keep buying the Chinese no name bearings and just replace them every year. I just don’t like having to do it on the side of the road. Anyway,