Victron Smart Shunt - alternative to the BMV-712

[Overland]

I was thumbing through Victron's products and ran across their new(ish?) Smart Shunt, which I hadn't seen before.  It looks like a great alternative to their BMV-712 battery monitor, which has become so popular with Ollie owners.  With the Smart Shunt, there is no external display to worry about - the bluetooth module is built in and it communicates directly with the Victron Connect app on your phone.  As a bonus, it appears to be about $50 cheaper.  

Edited August 20, 2020 by Overland

[Galway Girl]

Overland,

Good eye...I was also looking at this as it requires no wiring to a display/controller.

At present I'm trying to figure out where I would mount this in the battery box.  I would need enough cable length to pull the batteries out of the compartment.   I'm setup now with 4 AGM's.  If I do go forward with this I'll post.

 

[Overland]

I'd recommend placing the shunt outside of your battery box, since all the negative leads need to attach to it.  If you put it in the box, then you've got to deal with all those wires, whereas if you find a spot outside the box, then you can simplify your battery box wiring with only a single negative cable coming in from the shunt.

 

Is your avatar a new logo for your trailer?

Edited August 21, 2020 by Overland

[SeaDawg]

Your claddagh avatar is lovely. Perfect !

Sherry

Edited August 21, 2020 by SeaDawg

[GraniteStaters]

This is the unit I purchased and plan to install too.  

[John E Davies]

I agree about installing it in the cabin. Drag all those pesky, disorderly small ground cables out of the box and put everything together at a bus, then attach your Smart Shunt nearby. Run one big cable back to your battery negative post. If you have an inverter, you must use an appropriate gauge for the high current.

OTH if you are going to do that, you might as well do it for all those positive wires too. It makes the battery area way better.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[GraniteStaters]

I am making some modifications in my Victron smart battery shunt.  I originally installed it inline just before the Xantrex inverter, but because the other wiring returns to the negative post of the battery on the side mount, I wasn’t seeing the current usage and missing the complete Victron picture.  I needed a bus bar to connect to the main ground bar to see this draw.  I purchased a Blue Sea 4 port bus bar and installed on PVC that I epoxied to the inside of the pantry fiberglass wall in the basement.  I ran two additional 1/0 gauge battery cables with the appropriate lugs, one from the bus bar to the load side of the shunt and the other from the bus bar to the negative side of the inverter.  The battery side of the shunt is connected to the 1/0 cable that originally connected to the negative of the  Xantrex.  I have now ordered the cable with lugs to connect the main ground bar to the new bus bar and will connect it to the chassis ground after removing the cable that connects to the side mount of the battery.   I will leave the original cable in place, disconnected, labeled and secured   I should see all flow at that point   I will attach some pictures after the install is completed  

l

[GraniteStaters]

Here is the bus bar on the table top before the install.  

[topgun2]

I know that bus bars are not rocket science, but, it is still nice to see a quality  piece.

Bill

[Ray Kimsey]

On 9/17/2020 at 12:52 PM, GraniteStaters said:

Here is the bus bar on the table top before the install.  

I would love to see your pictures when you finish. Ours Oliver is still in production, but I would like to do something similar. It is hard to envision without the trailer.

[GraniteStaters]

I ran into a problem today when I was doing final steps of the install of the Victron Smart Shunt.  I disconnected the Yellow chassis ground cable at the battery and on the chassis ground bolt leaving it in case of any issues.  I connected the new 4/0 gauge battery lug to the chassis ground bolt.  The other end is attached to the bus bar.  Unfortunately I didn't check the Zamp until after I flipped the breaker back on and when I did I was greeted with the b01 error code.  I quickly flipped the breaker back to off and after a brief time thinking about what the problem might be, I reinstalled the original Yellow chassis ground cable on the battery.  This eliminated the Zamp b01 error code.  I then reviewed the wiring diagram for the 6 Volt AGM installation and see that the Solar ground wire and Solar Port ground wire are installed on the battery so I can't fathom why the b01 error code indicating that the Zamp doesn't see the battery circuit as complete. I have opened a Service Ticket with Oliver to see if they can answer a few of my questions about the wiring diagram for the 2019 AGM batteries and if they have any suggestions.  Any thoughts from the more knowledgeable folks on this forum would be appreciated?

[John E Davies]

If you could draw a wiring schematic of your current (pun intended) setup, that would help a lot. Words do not completely convey how things are connected.
 

I made a photocopy of the Oliver battery connection wiring diagram from my Owners Manual. It’s black and white but that doesn’t matter because the colors are indicated. On that copy.I covered the OEM wires with white tape, and then copied it again - I made three extras as spares. I then drew in my new bus bars and connections on the “edited” version.  Crude but effective.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[GraniteStaters]

Will do

[GraniteStaters]

I have attached a drawing that shows the wiring completed before failure of the Zamp Solar Controller b01/601 was observed.  Hope this helps.Shunt wiring.docx

[Overland]

What do the wires that you’ve labeled yellow and ground go to?  I’m assuming one goes to the small screw type bus bar on the floor and the other directly to the power center? If so then I think you’d just attach both to your new bus bar and that should do it. 

Do you know where the negative from your solar charge controller is connected? 

On my bus, I have the negative from the inverter, the negative from the solar charge controller, Oliver’s negative (a stiff yellow cable which connects to Oliver’s screw type bus bar on the floor), and then I have two additional separate ground wires, one each connecting directly to the cases of the inverter and solar charge controller.  (Since I have a combo inverter/charger, I have only one negative for both.)

Then the bus connects to the shunt and the shunt to the battery. I’m pretty sure that the only other wire I have connected directly to the negative terminal of a battery is a temperature sensor for either the shunt or charger, can’t remember.  

Edited September 23, 2020 by Overland

[GraniteStaters]

Overland,

The Yellow wire I referenced was connected from the negative terminal on the battery and connected to the screw attached to the chassis.  This wasn't connected on either end during my first attempt at migration to the bus bar.   I haven't moved either the Solar port negative or the Solar controller negative.  I don't know why either of those would cause the b01/601 error if they are still connected to the battery negative, but I agree that at least the Solar controller negative should be moved so that I can see the charging detail from the Solar controller.  The Solar controller negative cable run to a block on the bed side of the pantry wall below our twin bed.  Originally didn't see the Solar controller negative wire and I will need to either purchase for manufacture a cable to connect to my bus bar.  BTW, the bus bar has been installed for a week and has been working as I would expect.  This step is simply to move all negative flows to the bus bar and through the Victron Smart Battery Shunt.

I will measure the distance today from the Solar controller block under the twin bed to the new bus bar and give it a second try today even if I have to use a temporary cable to see if it eliminates the b01/601 error.  Even if I can't connect the Solar controller negative today, I will spend some time testing to see if I see the other negative flows through the Victron.  I didn't take time to do this yesterday, so I should at least confirm the only issue I have is with the Solar controller.

 

[Overland]

If the yellow cable was disconnected before, than I’d connect it to your bus then, instead of the battery.  That plus also moving the charge controller negative to the bus should have you set.   
 

Basically, treat your bus bar like it’s the negative terminal of your battery. Apart from maybe a temp sensor, the only thing that should connect directly to the battery should be the cable from the shunt. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Overland

[John E Davies]

By splitting up the path the “returning” electrons take, you just confuse the Victron Connect and, I suspect, the solar box.

I agree that all the old ground connections at the battery negative posts should be moved to your new ground bus. Just make sure the “new” ground cable going to the batteries from the shunt is a large enough gauge for the combined current. The inverter cable is so very oversized that it can carry the max load without overheating. (I cut 18” off my inverter ground cable and installed a new terminal. The remaining scrap was used for the inverter jumper to the shunt.) On a trailer without an inverter you would need to run a bigger cable to the negative post.

It is perfectly OK to have all of the positive connections stay at the batteries. Aesthetically and functionally it would be better if they had their own positive bus inside the hull, making sure that all the various positive wires are protected by their own fuses or self resetting relays. You can’t combine those into fewer ones.

FYI: On my Hull 218 two positive wires at the battery (the solar port and the main feed to the DC system) were unfused/ unprotected! (A large broken positive cable without a fuse becomes a high current welding cable and it can burn up stuff and melt through the frame.)

It would be nice if Oliver would do this all correctly during manufacture, by running all those extra cables to their own inside buses; that way you could simply interrupt one single ground cable to add a Smart Shunt. The OEM wiring is pure “RV quality” in terms of design. Meaning sloppy and very visually unappealing..

Re-doing all the main supply and all the ground cables is really a huge undertaking. It involves a good understanding of wiring design and the ability to fabricate heavy cables that will not fail from vibration. IMHO it rates a 6 or 7 out of 10 in difficulty and it most definitely places your trailer warranty at risk. Due to these factors I decided to not post a How To thread. Mine works fine. It was definitely a PITA to do it. I don’t want to risk somebody who has blindly followed my installation guidelines have it fail catastrophically because of changes in their wiring layout from mine, or from a poor crimp.... 

I really think that two inside buses should be standard and a Victron shunt should be a factory option (or a simple retrofit). Prospective buyers should ask their sales rep. 

Good luck.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited September 23, 2020 by John E Davies

[GraniteStaters]

Thanks, JD.  Here is the detail of my initial try using a copy of the AGM 6V in the manual.  As both you suggested I have pulled back the Solar controller cable and connected to the bus bar and completed the change over to the bus bar and grounding it at the chassis.   All appears well and I receive the stats I was looking for from the VictronConnect software via Bluetooth on my iPhone, iPad, and my MacBook Pro.   Thanks for all your help.  I have attached a final picture of the bus bar and Smart Battery Shunt.

[John E Davies]

2 hours ago, GraniteStaters said:

 

Looking good, I am glad you got it working. It is a very nifty application. I like it a lot. I do suggest that you separate the red inverter wire from all the ground wires. Shift it over to the right, away from your new bus. Normally you should maintain separation between hot wires and ground wires, in case a terminal fails, or a wire chafes through. And add some nylon wire ties to reduce wire motion when towing. Tie the red temp sensor wire to the nearby black inverter cable, that is OK. If you worry about chafing you can add some plastic split loom material to it.

I bet you are relieved that it is done. It’s a big job.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[GraniteStaters]

JD, 

I appreciate your feedback.  Safety is important.  I will review the cable runs to insure they have the proper clearance before we head out on a 3 or 4 week trip early in October.  I really appreciate the help that you and Overland provided.  I used a fiberglass snake when I pulled the Solar controller negative cable back to the basement just in case I had to pull it back to the battery box and reconnect it if I had too.  As soon as I hooked it to the bus bar the b01/601 disappeared.  Until I cabled the bus bar to the chassis ground, the voltage measure dropped and I was alerted by the VictronConnect application.  I finished the connection of the bus bar to the chassis ground screw and it immediately read correctly.  When I powered on the main circuit breaker, I was so pleased to see all the draws as I cycled a few switches including the Xantrex inverter.  I know we will find it so helpful to know how we are doing when we have campsites where we are relying only on Solar.

Thanks again to both of you.  I hope to meet you both someday.

[John E Davies]

You are very welcome, we are glad to help. Be prepared to be shocked at the massive current draw you see on the VictronConnect  app when you switch on your microwave....

John Davies

Spokane WA

[mjrendon]

I am also prepping my Elite 2 for this upgrade and not certain which busbar to get.  Is the 250A Blue Sea 4 terminal appropriate with 5/16" studs?  The 600A bus bar has 3/8" studs which I believe are too big for the connectors on the 4/0 wires that will be connecting.

[Overland]

I think I have a mix of 5/16” and ⅜” studs on my stuff -  should be fine. You could always do what I did and run pairs of 1/0 rather than 4/0, then you could use separate studs, assuming you have one free. 

[Wayfinder]

Hey all, if I understand @GraniteStaters initial mistake, by-passing the DC side of the negative connections, I think I did what he did. I only hooked up the AC (inverter) side to be monitored by the Inverter.  I think I need another busbar like he installed (purple box in my pic).

I've tried to figure out the solution from his pics, but I want to be clear about it. 

Here's what I have so far. Here's a clean pic without overlayed graphics and one with overlay.  Not sure how clear this is to understand.

The Victron Smartshunt is working fine, except I do not see any DC loads on monitor.  I now understand why, just want to clarify the solution.  Any detailed diagrams are welcome.  

Thanks!