Progressive Surge Protector Operation

[Trainman]

First let me say here I'm on my second unit, the first one just quit working right after we got the trailer in July 2019 and Oliver Service replace it, or should I say they sent me a new one and I replaced it. So we go camping last week November 2020 and upon plugging the power cable in the surge protector started beeping and shutdown, then after say 15 seconds or so it kicked back on and it worked ok for the rest of the four days we camped. Then when came home I plugged the trailer in again and it did the same thing again, but after 15 seconds or so it kicked back on and has been plugged it with no problems. I guess my question is, is this surge protector faulty, or is it working as it should and just going thru a reset process. Thanks, trainman

[topgun2]

Trainman - 

Your situation sounds a bit strange to me.  My "normal" routine when plugging into a pedestal is to use a circuit tester first, if all is good I turn the pedestal circuit breakers back off and then plug is the Furrion cord and check its led's, if all is still good I (once again) turn off the circuit breakers and plug the Furrion cord into my Oliver and turn the circuit breakers back on.  This is the point where the surge protector comes into play and unlike yours, usually by the time I get around the camper, in the door, and look at the read-out, my microwave will "beep" and I will see an "E-0" on the read-out.  No other noises other than a fairly small "klunk" which is the automatic transfer switch doing its thing.

I don't know if that means your is faulty, going through a "reset process" or if something else is going on.  However, a quick phone call to the company should give you the answer you desire.

Bill

[Mike and Carol]

I don’t have the built in surge protector, I use a portable at the pedestal. Once I plug it in and flip the breaker it takes about 45 seconds for it to pass power.  It’s done that since the beginning and I assume it’s checking the circuit.  Maybe that’s what yours is doing.  Mike

[GAP]

4 hours ago, topgun2 said:

Trainman - 

Your situation sounds a bit strange to me.  My "normal" routine when plugging into a pedestal is to use a circuit tester first, if all is good I turn the pedestal circuit breakers back off and then plug is the Furrion cord and check its led's, if all is still good I (once again) turn off the circuit breakers and plug the Furrion cord into my Oliver and turn the circuit breakers back on.  This is the point where the surge protector comes into play and unlike yours, usually by the time I get around the camper, in the door, and look at the read-out, my microwave will "beep" and I will see an "E-0" on the read-out.  No other noises other than a fairly small "klunk" which is the automatic transfer switch doing its thing.

I don't know if that means your is faulty, going through a "reset process" or if something else is going on.  However, a quick phone call to the company should give you the answer you desire.

Bill

Hey Bill,

Perhaps a silly question but considering that the on-board surge protector supposedly has built in protection including over/under voltage, reversed polarity, ground fault, etc... why is it worth it to go through the steps you described with your portable unit?  I would have assumed that the trailer itself is well protected with the on-board unit acting as a stop gap for any questionable electrical situations.  

I habitually use a multi meter to quick check polarity and ground when working with an unknown source but would have that step would be redundant in this situation.  Do I have it wrong?

[BackofBeyond]

My  thoughts  - 

1. You should verify the incoming voltage.  At each campground, and at home. Not knowing  this makes it really hard to problem solve.  I use a simple circuit tester - Sperry Instruments GFI6302 GFCI Outlet / Receptacle Tester, Standard 120V AC Outlets, 7 Visual Indication / Wiring Legend, Home & Professional Use, Yellow & Black - Multi Testers - Amazon.com  is an example of one does everything you need. Plug it into the pedestal before you hook up.  Use a 30 amp adapter. 

2. My protector has a delay - about 20-30 sec - as it goes through its test procedure - before  systems are put on the verified single phase, neutral correct, 120+/-  volts

3. What are the read out values  from the progressive remote?

4. Was this the first time you used the trailer since replacement? 

5. Any feedback on what went wrong with the initial unit? 

Good luck.

RB

[topgun2]

GAP- 

Not a "silly question" at all.  Perhaps I should have been a bit more clear - my surge protector is not portable - it is the one sold by Oliver and permanently installed in my Oliver.

The quick and simple answer to your question is that basically you are correct.  I too wonder, sometimes, why I take those extra steps even though it really doesn't take very long to perform them.  Bottom line is that JD is not the only member of this Forum that could be considered to have "anal" tendencies.  Yes, the onboard unit should be all that is necessary to protect all that expensive stuff inside the Oliver from damage.  But, what if it fails for some reason?  I have the tools, I have the time, and I simply hate to shell out money for something that I could have prevented by taking an extra 30 seconds.

Bill

[GAP]

23 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

GAP- 

Not a "silly question" at all.  Perhaps I should have been a bit more clear - my surge protector is not portable - it is the one sold by Oliver and permanently installed in my Oliver.

The quick and simple answer to your question is that basically you are correct.  I too wonder, sometimes, why I take those extra steps even though it really doesn't take very long to perform them.  Bottom line is that JD is not the only member of this Forum that could be considered to have "anal" tendencies.  Yes, the onboard unit should be all that is necessary to protect all that expensive stuff inside the Oliver from damage.  But, what if it fails for some reason?  I have the tools, I have the time, and I simply hate to shell out money for something that I could have prevented by taking an extra 30 seconds.

Bill

Bill & JD, I concur! 

When working around electricity and expensive equipment, "anal tendencies" save the day.   

As Bill said, the on board surge protector should protect everything on board even when I'm not standing at the pedestal with a meter or tester (like to Sperry unit RB linked to above).  The meter and/or tester will catch switched polarity or open ground but over/under voltage can happen anytime and not be caused by anything happening within the pedestal itself.  If problems are caught early, it offers an opportunity to switch sites to one that has a clean feed.  

[Trainman]

I will try to answer some of the question that were asked,

1. I had used the trailer 2-3 times after the replacement surge protector was replaced and I did not notice any problem, but I may not have gone in the trailer right after it was plugged in and like I said the system corrects itself after 5-10 seconds. 

2, I do have a circuit tester like the one shown in the post and I have an adaptor to fit the pedestal plug, I've never used it for that test, but from now on I will.

3. The original unit would just keep resetting itself, it would reset for around 30 seconds and then shutoff and then reset itself again, never would stay on longer then 30-45 seconds.

4. I will just have to pay more attention to what is happing when I plug in the trailer, Like I said 5-10 seconds and it resets. I may let the wife look at the LED panel and see if there are any error codes that pop up and what they are. 

5. Question, can you use two surge protectors, one at the pedestal and the factory trailer one at the same time. 

trainman

[topgun2]

Quote

27 minutes ago, Trainman said:

5. Question, can you use two surge protectors, one at the pedestal and the factory trailer one at the same time. 

 

Certainly there are more qualified people here than I am regarding electricity, but, I don't see why you couldn't use two surge protectors.  Indeed, the first one in line simply passes whatever "good" current it finds on to the second one.  Seems a bit redundant but then I'm one of those guys that does testing before the surge protector gets a chance to do its testing.

Bill 

[mountainoliver]

I put together this tester at the suggestion of another Oliver owner and keep it handy in my truck door pocket. The voltage display was ordered from Amazon and is advertised as a night light as well. This combination tests the pedestal for not only the typical wiring problems but also for over/under voltage issues. It does not however check for incorrect cycles (above or below 60). I do this very quick test before plugging in. After that the installed surge protector shows and filters out typical voltage, wiring and incorrect cycles issues.

 

[John E Davies]

12 hours ago, mountainoliver said:

I put together this tester at the suggestion of another Oliver owner and keep it handy in my truck door pocket. The voltage display was ordered from Amazon and is advertised as a night light as well. This combination tests the pedestal for not only the typical wiring problems but also for over/under voltage issues. It does not however check for incorrect cycles (above or below 60). I do this very quick test before plugging in. 

I use pretty much the same setup, except I used a pivoting three way adapter.
 

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-2-Pack-3-Outlet-Grounded/dp/B01LY5WXBY/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=120+volt+three+way+adapter+pivoting&qid=1606285838&sr=8-9

It is very handy. When “Mouse” is plugged in during storage, I insert the tool, with just the voltmeter, into the outside 120 volt outlet, near the hot water heater, facing the front of the trailer. The glowing display shows at a glance that it is getting power. I experienced a failure of the shore power adapter and the converter was not charging the batteries. This way I know the power is at least getting to the main AC circuit.

Highly recommended!

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by John E Davies

[BlueHighways]

Oh knowledgeable and experienced people -
When checking voltage, what is the tolerance range? How low/high can our systems tolerate?

[BackofBeyond]

22 hours ago, GAP said:

Bill & JD, I concur! 

When working around electricity and expensive equipment, "anal tendencies" save the day.   

As Bill said, the on board surge protector should protect everything on board even when I'm not standing at the pedestal with a meter or tester (like to Sperry unit RB linked to above).  The meter and/or tester will catch switched polarity or open ground but over/under voltage can happen anytime and not be caused by anything happening within the pedestal itself.  If problems are caught early, it offers an opportunity to switch sites to one that has a clean feed.  

With the progressive unit, and all the checks it does on the incoming power, there are also a few issues that arise due to its level of protection. One we are all aware of is the grounded neutral needed for many gen sets, another is under/over voltage protection. I have an older, larger generator on the farm, I use for various activities. The Oliver will not run on this unit due to high voltage - its just over the cutoff of the Progressive. I have also been at a few sites where the voltage was at the low end - and under load - cycled the AC unit.  I have not run into a variable cycle/hertz issue - but if a place ran off of a larger generator it could happen - I'm referring to a RV park out in the middle of the Yukon. 

Due to cautious nature of the folks on this forum, and their many suggestions to  keep problems at bay , I do a few things - many in the RV world probably don't. Frankly - my worry is about the power at campgrounds - you can never assume it is correct - I have found some really bad situations at a few RV parks - and as  GAP mentioned - you can move sites if there is an issue. Additionally - water pressure should also be something you check and regulate.  

I don' t know the lower and upper limit of the progressive unit - you can refer to your manual - newer models may be different. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by BackofBeyond
update

[BlueHighways]

The manual states 104 to 132 for the cutoff points but that seems like a large range.  I’ve never checked voltages so I don’t know the real world ranges that exist.  Say you are running the a/c and want to warm up supper in the microwave, is that a problem on 105 volts?

 

ps- I’ve never checked voltages but I will starting Friday when my Amazon order gets here! Thanks folks!

Edited November 25, 2020 by BlueHighways

[Ray and Susan Huff]

On 11/24/2020 at 7:14 AM, Trainman said:

I will try to answer some of the question that were asked,

1. I had used the trailer 2-3 times after the replacement surge protector was replaced and I did not notice any problem, but I may not have gone in the trailer right after it was plugged in and like I said the system corrects itself after 5-10 seconds. 

2, I do have a circuit tester like the one shown in the post and I have an adaptor to fit the pedestal plug, I've never used it for that test, but from now on I will.

3. The original unit would just keep resetting itself, it would reset for around 30 seconds and then shutoff and then reset itself again, never would stay on longer then 30-45 seconds.

4. I will just have to pay more attention to what is happing when I plug in the trailer, Like I said 5-10 seconds and it resets. I may let the wife look at the LED panel and see if there are any error codes that pop up and what they are. 

5. Question, can you use two surge protectors, one at the pedestal and the factory trailer one at the same time. 

trainman

 

On 11/24/2020 at 7:14 AM, Trainman said:

I will try to answer some of the question that were asked,

1. I had used the trailer 2-3 times after the replacement surge protector was replaced and I did not notice any problem, but I may not have gone in the trailer right after it was plugged in and like I said the system corrects itself after 5-10 seconds. 

2, I do have a circuit tester like the one shown in the post and I have an adaptor to fit the pedestal plug, I've never used it for that test, but from now on I will.

3. The original unit would just keep resetting itself, it would reset for around 30 seconds and then shutoff and then reset itself again, never would stay on longer then 30-45 seconds.

4. I will just have to pay more attention to what is happing when I plug in the trailer, Like I said 5-10 seconds and it resets. I may let the wife look at the LED panel and see if there are any error codes that pop up and what they are. 

5. Question, can you use two surge protectors, one at the pedestal and the factory trailer one at the same time. 

trainman

We had a similar thing happen in our Leisure Travel Van equipped with the PI surge protector.  It always happened when we were connected at home to a 20 amp receptacle.  Error code would say "ground fault error", but the receptacle tested fine for ground.  As per the Progressive Industries manual, we unplugged the 30 amp power cord from the van and reconnected; this always solved the issue.  Not sure if the order in which you connect has any bearing on the situation.  Perhaps it is just a matter of unplugging to reset.  We never called PI for advice since the problem always resolved itself.

The only other time the Progressive unit cut off power was at a public campground.  The error code showed "low voltage" which occcurs when current drops below the preset threshold of 104v.  We asked the CG host, and they had not received other complaints; perhaps no other RVs had low voltage protection?  Or there was high power usage across all sites?  We were offered an alternate site, but chose to simply unhook power since we were only staying the night.

[GAP]

9 hours ago, BackofBeyond said:

With the progressive unit, and all the checks it does on the incoming power, there are also a few issues that arise due to its level of protection. One we are all aware of is the grounded neutral needed for many gen sets, another is under/over voltage protection. I have an older, larger generator on the farm, I use for various activities. The Oliver will not run on this unit due to high voltage - its just over the cutoff of the Progressive. I have also been at a few sites where the voltage was at the low end - and under load - cycled the AC unit.  I have not run into a variable cycle/hertz issue - but if a place ran off of a larger generator it could happen - I'm referring to a RV park out in the middle of the Yukon. 

Due to cautious nature of the folks on this forum, and their many suggestions to  keep problems at bay , I do a few things - many in the RV world probably don't. Frankly - my worry is about the power at campgrounds - you can never assume it is correct - I have found some really bad situations at a few RV parks - and as  GAP mentioned - you can move sites if there is an issue. Additionally - water pressure should also be something you check and regulate.  

I don' t know the lower and upper limit of the progressive unit - you can refer to your manual - newer models may be different. 

I'm not surprised to hear about these problems being common.  The overvoltage from an older generator may be able to be regulated if there is a manual throttle or by using an appropriately sized dimmer/rheostat in line.  The former is easy if it already exists and the latter is pricey unless you already own.  

Undervoltage in areas at campgrounds is probably the norm.  The further you push power through a line, the more power is lost.  As I understand it, low gauge (thicker) wire offers less resistance and carriers electricity better and further but costs much more.  Even a relatively simple multi meter can test for voltage and hertz.  If shore power is supplied by a generator that is not well maintained, the hertz (60 cycles) can be off and delicate electronics hate that.  Should be protected by the on board "surge protector" .  If the power in a campground comes off the pole, over/under voltage, reversed polarity and/or open ground is easy enough to detect using the set up Mountainlover and John describe above but the Hertz should be fine.

My plan is to test to allow moving to another site - if that is an option.  There is always the chance that otherwise clean power can go awry after hooking up but that is where a good surge protector proves it's value.  If using one at the pedestal (as opposed to an on-board, in-line model) it is worth noting that it offers auto shut off for all the maladies described above.  They are pricey but can help avoid a story with a sad faced ending.