Towing with Tesla Model X?

[Starshine]

Is anyone towing with a Tesla Model X?

[Overland]

Not for very far. 😛

Seriously, I don't know, but I hope we'd have heard about it here if someone was.  There's a good discussion about the possibility of towing with the cybertruck here, and in that topic there's some general discussion about towing with other electric vehicles including the X.  I don't know what the towing limits are for the X, but I'd guess that range will nix the idea regardless.  

Edited December 2, 2020 by Overland

[mjrendon]

9 minutes ago, Overland said:

There's a good discussion about the possibility of towing with the cybertruck here, and in that topic there's some general discussion about towing with other electric vehicles including the X.

I really enjoyed reading this discussion and wonder if many opinions here have changed in the past year.  It will be interesting to see what happens once the cybertruck is released and some real towing range numbers start rolling in.

[SeaDawg]

Back a few years ago, I followed the adventure of this Canadian couple that towed an Alto Safari (very light teardrop) with their new Tesla X. This was before there was much of a Tesla charging network across Canada.

They made it. Had a great time.

https://teslaxcanada.com/

I wouldn't really expect very good range, towing an Oliver, with an x.

However,  I  am still looking forward to towing with my Tesla Cybertruck someday.  #250,000 something in the reservations. 

😁

Edited December 2, 2020 by SeaDawg
Add link

[Starshine]

Thank you for the responses. We have a Tesla X and have pre-ordered the Tesla truck along with 650,000 people. Knowing Tesla, the delivery date will probably be pushed back so we don't expect to see it for another year or 2 (already has been 1). Itching to get back into traveling and exploring the country we have decided to buy an Oliver Elite. We know the  Tongue Weight on the X is 500 and the GVWR  is 5000 lbs. It can tow an Elite I with Tongue Weight of 340 and GVWR of 5000 lbs. This gives us up to 1300 lbs of Net Carry Capacity to play around with since we don't want to push it to it's limit. The Tesla Model X could tow the Elite II but it would have to be down to the bones to do so and would not go far at all. 

We have watched a ton of videos on You Tube with the Model X and Model Y towing Casitas successfully but no Oliver owners. There have also been other RV models like the Alto, mentioned by SeaDawg, and multiple types of Airstreams. We liked watching all of the above because of the aerodynamics of the trailers and the information on wind resistance and elevation. So far we are hoping for 150 mile range between charging. This of coarse depends on the wind and elevation. Oh, a major factor the speed brings me to another question for later on about people that tow over 55 miles per hour. Some dangerously racing down the highway at 80mph chewing up their energy source.

Since March we have been going thru a lot of different scenarios including buying the Elite II and a new truck then selling the truck when we get the cyber truck.  We decided, with just the two us, why not get the Elite 1 and enjoy ourselves during the two year wait period. Our build date is now; we have to decide now. Anita, our helpful sales person, thought there were a few Oliver owners with Teslas and suggested the forum. We had tried months before but thought we would give it another search and post a question.

Your responses have been right on and we appreciate the extra feedback. Looks like a lot of people are waiting for the Tesla Cyber Truck like us to do some fun towing.

[John E Davies]

It is always interesting to hear from folks trying to push the towing boundaries. Where do you live - you mentioned camping in Nevada and Utah in an earlier post. Obviously the number and location of chargers is paramount. You need to fully understand that there are lots of places in the West where you will not be able to go, period, because even gas stations are in short supply. A (hoped for) 150 mile range is simply not enough. What about severe mountain grades? Have you considered the hassles of running empty and having to get towed from a remote location that any old gas or diesel truck would get to with “no worries”? Assuming you can even call out when there is zero cell service? Finding available charger stations where you can take an attached trailer is a whole lot of non-stop mental stress that will ruin the pleasure of being out camping. Getting rid of your stresses is important, that is why we advise roadside assistance coverage, a satellite communicator (out West), a more than “adequate” TV, and TPMS on the trailer. Lots less worries, more enjoyment.

One thing you may not have completely thought through, how do you plan recharge your depleted trailer batteries? Surely you can’t tap current off the X without further reducing your range. Or do you plan to stay only at full hookup campgrounds, which is in itself problematic. Many National Parks and Monuments don’t have any at all. Your solar will help, but it cannot be relied on for a complete daily recharge. Are you going to bring a generator and extra gas? If one large enough to run your AC is mounted on the tongue cargo tray it will max out your tongue weight. A Honda EU1000i is light and would be enough for a couple of trailer batteries.

Good luck on your X adventure, I hope you will post threads and pictures, I am sure there are a few people interested here.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by John E Davies

[John E Davies]

I forgot to ask, what options have you ordered? To minimize towing weight I suggest AGM batteries, standard solar, and the composting toilet only. No inverter and no microwave, it is a huge energy user when off-grid, no satellite dome, it increases drag! Those choices and traveling  with an empty fresh tank will improve your range measurably. Add a bunch of heavy options and your trailer weight will go way up. The Elite is a little tank, small and quite dense, it is no 2200 pound Casita.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[bhncb]

6 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

I forgot to ask, what options have you ordered? To minimize towing weight I suggest AGM batteries, standard solar, and the composting toilet only. No inverter and no microwave, it is a huge energy user when off-grid, no satellite dome, it increases drag! Those choices and traveling  with an empty fresh tank will improve your range measurably. Add a bunch of heavy options and your trailer weight will go way up. The Elite is a little tank, small and quite dense, it is no 2200 pound Casita.

John Davies

Spokane WA

I  think that by ordering the Lithium Pro package, you might be better off weight wise than with the AGMs and no inverter. 

Opps sorry. Elite 1

Edited December 3, 2020 by bhncb

[Overland]

I'd say that if you're choosing a trailer based on your tow vehicle, then you're letting the tail wag the dog.  Pick the trailer you want, the one that fits your camping lifestyle, and if that means you need a different tow vehicle, then so be it.  Olivers aren't disposable.  If you choose wisely, your trailer will last a lifetime - your truck will not.  

[ScubaRx]

I also believe your tow vehicle must be matched to the trailer you’ve selected. Buy one that is just “adequate” and I promise you will come to regret it.  You really can’t have too much range, power, or capacity. 

[mjrendon]

A used or new ICE vehicle now while you are waiting for the Cyber Truck seems like a great option.  The number of recharging stations and locations has been anything but static.  With the eSEMIs coming, the network of pull through charging stations is going to expand quickly.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by mjrendon

[Frank C]

You could maybe tow an Elite 1 for short distances, but no way is the Tesla model X adequate for an Elite II.   Model X towing limit is right at 5,000 lbs. and a loaded Elite II will be well over that.   And the payload limit is a problem as well.  1,300 lbs payload will be used up pretty quickly with the trailer tongue weight and 2 adults and luggage in the car.  

Edited December 3, 2020 by FrankC

[John E Davies]

“When you add a trailer to the mix, that range goes way down. Fenske details a couple of hypothetical trailering scenarios for a Model X in this video. In one, he simulates a family taking their Model X on a camping trip, driving 100 miles up a 1-percent grade at 75 mph. Factoring the 5500-pound weight of the Model X itself, plus 500 lb of payload and 5000 lb of trailer, increased drag coefficient from the trailer, rolling resistance, and gravity, Fenske calculates that 100.4 kWh is needed to make that trip. In other words, you'd need to recharge to make it.”
 

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a30121167/electric-car-towing-range/

How about a 30 mph headwind, on a hot day with the AC running inside the X? Oops. You had better hope that you can locate a safe turnout on the shoulder to pull over, and that you have enough juice left to run your emergency flashers while you attempt to summon two tow trucks, one for the X and one for the Ollie. “No Service. Darn it.....” Now what do you do?

https://www.torquenews.com/1083/aaa-temporarily-stops-emergency-battery-electric-vehicle-charging-program-hopes-return-better-service

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited December 3, 2020 by John E Davies

[BackofBeyond]

Low charge - No worries, they can put a charging station anywhere nowadays

 

[mjrendon]

1 hour ago, John E Davies said:

In one, he simulates a family taking their Model X on a camping trip, driving 100 miles up a 1-percent grade at 75 mph. Factoring the 5500-pound weight of the Model X itself, plus 500 lb of payload and 5000 lb of trailer, increased drag coefficient from the trailer, rolling resistance, and gravity, Fenske calculates that 100.4 kWh is needed to make that trip. In other words, you'd need to recharge to make it.”

The math is interesting but none of the scenarios are the same (X, C, F) making it difficult to apply to real world scenarios.   From the video, the conclusion I came away with is that you may need to avoid campsites that are >/= 100 miles away and have a constant 1% grade if you max out your cyber truck's towing capacity.  And, no matter which vehicle you choose you need to be aware of the requirements to get there and back.  

Maybe a shorter trip with 2% grade would have allowed the Cyber Truck to return back home with a nearly topped off battery by using its regen capability?

Edited December 3, 2020 by mjrendon

[BackofBeyond]

I always wondered what the future Hot Rod  folks were gonna do in a Tesla and e vehicle world.  Seems there is life in the next 50 years for the old car guys...

Is This GM’s Answer to TESLA? - YouTube

 

[mjrendon]

 

7 minutes ago, BackofBeyond said:

I always wondered what the future Hot Rod  folks were gonna do in a Tesla and e vehicle world.  Seems there is life in the next 50 years for the old car guys...

Is This GM’s Answer to TESLA? - YouTube

Job security for the brakes and transmission repair shops I am guessing.

[SeaDawg]

Starshine, allelectricfamily recently did some youtubes and a blog post about their experience towing a rented airstream bambi with their x. The interesting part is their comparisons with towing their own travel trailer, an Apex sticky with comparable weights and stats. They found a significant increase in range with the more aerodynamic form of the airstream. They did get over 150 mile range at times. (Flatter land. They towed from Kansas City to Fairland, Oklahoma. ) They found a significant increase in range with the more aerodynamic shape of the rented airstream.

The tongue weight and base weight of the bambi aren't much different from an Oliver elite 1.  My guess is that an Oliver is at least as aerodynamic as an Airstream. 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by SeaDawg

[Starshine]

We live on a NJ farm and have traveled to Las Vegas several times using a Model S and Model X with no problem charging. Since 2011 we have used Tesla charging stations all over the country. Tesla charging network has been constantly updating and there are many apps you can use when traveling the northern, mid or southern routes across country. So, we are comfortable traveling with a Tesla even thru the energy draining mountains areas like Utah. If there is a problem, we will take the southern route to Vegas and visit the Hoover Dam.

Our Model X currently gets an average of 295mpge. Add an Oliver Elite I TT with GVWR of 5000lbs and TW of 340lbs and things change significantly. On a nice day with sunny skies and a flat road and no head wind we estimate we will get an average of 100mpge. Down hill or with a good wind 100 to 150 (150 is stretching it). Uphill is a challenge and would cut the mileage significantly. So, we would definitely rely on map planning apps that included coefficient drag data and charging stations. If we did do a long-range trip, we probably would rely on campgrounds like KOAs to overnight stay and charge as well at stations along the way. Time is not a factor so many extra stops for charging is OK especially since it is not too often that we take such long trips. Plus, Vegas is a stop off where we spend a lot of time with family and friends. Most of our travels will be spent at parks closer to home with a visit to Florida and Vegas once in a while.  As soon as we get the Cyber Truck it will be easier for us to do more boondocking across the country.

We are aware of the negatives of pulling a TT out west but we have seen several videos where it is doable. Yes, a Casita is less weight but I have seen videos of people wasting energy driving them 80 mph and getting acceptable mileage. Several videos show larger frontage trailers that are longer, wider and taller than the Oliver being towed by smaller EVs averaging 100mpge.  We have even seen model Ys that have towed 19’ and 20’ Airstreams at a reasonable distance. We have looked at the Alto Safari, Airstream Bambi, Caravel, and Basecamp and other small campers for their aerodynamics but chose the Oliver. We have looked at ICE trucks for towing but found them to be expensive to buy just to trade them in 11/2 years and lose money.

We have looked at both the Elite and Elite II and love them both. Most of our travels will be just my husband and I so the Elite is perfect especially if we do a lot of hiking, biking, and running. We hope to get back to a lot of outdoor adventures.

As far as Fenske’s hypothetical trailering scenarios, I thought his Model X video of a family driving a Model X up a 1-percent grade at 75 mph is unrealistic. Why would one use speed to carry a load up a mountain? The higher speed would affect his outcome. It sounded a little bias to me. Of course, an ICE vehicle will do great against an EV when elevation is included. Why would anyone doubt it? Watching results of the aerodynamic shape TTs and Teslas pulling them makes me feel we will be just fine. I hope to start building our Oliver Elite I this month to find out.

Thank you again for all the input. It really help us to make a final decision. There were so many points that I jotted down from above:

Be aware of traveling conditions including weather, speed and road inclination. Safety! Emergency -What If.
Anita has on our list a composting toilet and other items mentioned above.
If we could find a cheap ICE vehicle it should be something to consider.
Are we letting the tail wag the dog or is this what we really want.
Buy an adequate trailer for your car or truck.
Plan your mileage correctly between sites.
Charging stations anywhere. We see them even at gas stations.
Aerodynamics is a major factor when towing.

Audrey 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Starshine
composting instead of composite oops

[SeaDawg]

Audrey, which battery size do you have in your x?

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122487_towing-a-camper-with-a-tesla-model-x-thank-elon-for-superchargers

Edited December 4, 2020 by SeaDawg

[katanapilot]

5 hours ago, BackofBeyond said:

Low charge - No worries, they can put a charging station anywhere nowadays

 

Zero emission vehicle. Yeah, right. 

[SeaDawg]

I'm curious about a few things,  with an x as tow vehicle. (Which I'm sure is doable, within range limits.)

I've read about issues with Tesla 7 pin connector wiring, as it's not the same as typical? Could be older models. 

The hitch receiver is way low. Photos I've seen show safety chains almost at highway level .  I'd be looking at cables,, with velcro wraps to keep them off the roadways , maybe?

Are you looking at solar panels? Fixed or suitcase, or both? To achieve best aerodynamic performance,  I'd be tempted to explore flexible fixed panels, like the sunpower panels we used on our sailboat hardtop Bimini. Negligible drag, and though more real estate per watt, they work very well .  Keep the rooftop as clean as possible.

Plus a portable  pv system. Maybe, two controllers, piggyback wired. 

Actually,  I'm really looking forward to seeing your towing reports, with an Elite I. 👍

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by SeaDawg

[Starshine]

17 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

Audrey, which battery size do you have in your x?

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122487_towing-a-camper-with-a-tesla-model-x-thank-elon-for-superchargers

100kwh

[John E Davies]

The Tesla receiver is a wonder, like the rest of the car. It is plug and play into the frame, so you can just store it away when not in use. I never knew that. Do they rattle?

https://www.teslarati.com/how-to-install-tesla-model-x-hitch/

However I am 99.5% ignorant about these cars, so this is no real surprise. I would not want to smash it hard onto a concrete driveway apron, but OTH the rear overhang is so short that may not be a problem, unlike, for example, a Ford Flex.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited December 4, 2020 by John E Davies

[Starshine]

16 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

I'm curious about a few things,  with an x as tow vehicle. (Which I'm sure is doable, within range limits.)

I've read about issues with Tesla 7 pin connector wiring, as it's not the same as typical? Could be older models. 

The hitch receiver is way low. Photos I've seen show safety chains almost at highway level .  I'd be looking at cables,, with velcro wraps to keep them off the roadways , maybe?

Are you looking at solar panels? Fixed or suitcase, or both? To achieve best aerodynamic performance,  I'd be tempted to explore flexible fixed panels, like the sunpower panels we used on our sailboat hardtop Bimini. Negligible drag, and though more real estate per watt, they work very well .  Keep the rooftop as clean as possible.

Plus a portable  pv system. Maybe, two controllers, piggyback wired. 

Actually,  I'm really looking forward to seeing your towing reports, with an Elite I. 👍

 

 

 

We have to look into the Tesla 7 pin connector wiring and the Velcro wraps. We were planning on getting the solar package. As far as aerodynamics and the roof, the air conditioner, vents and antennas already effect air flow so we figured it wasn't going to make that much of a difference. Collectors aren't new to us. We have had them on our house since 1983 starting with mechanical and then updating to solar. There are even solar collectors on our pool area pergola. Not sure the flexible panels would perform or last as well as the framed. The Bimini brand sounds like a good alternative if we need it. Usually we go with Panasonic and would do it ourselves but we figured we would leave the design to someone who knows our fiberglass trailer. 

As always thanks for the info.