Using a generator solely for charging the Ollie batteries

[HDRider]

9 hours ago, Frank C said:

The charge voltage value you entered is incorrect.  The batteries do not charge at 120 volts.  120 volts is the nominal AC (alternating current) shore power input voltage to the trailer.  The battery charger converts that AC voltage to DC voltage (direct current) for charging the batteries.  Lithium ion batteries charge at around 14.25 to 14.7 volts DC.  Enter that value.   Charging current (amps) is equal to the charging wattage divided by the charging voltage.  THEORETICALLY 2000 watts available divided by a 14.5 volt DC charging voltage is 138 amps DC, but the batteries and/or the battery charger have a charge current limit setting.   So they typically do not allow that high of a charge current.   For example, the BattleBorn batteries I’ve been considering for an upgrade have a maximum charge current limit of 50 amps DC.   So at a 14.5 volt DC charging voltage that means it’ll only be using 725 watts.  A 2000 watt generator is overkill for just charging batteries, but overkill is good, it means the generator won’t be working as hard. 

I don't know what to do with this statement, "the batteries and/or the battery charger have a charge current limit setting.   So they typically do not allow that high of a charge current."

 

You helped reinforce my self professed ignorance on this subject.

 

I like this much mo better!  At 14.25 volts it is  an estimated charge time: 1.5 hours

[SeaDawg]

On 4/23/2023 at 11:58 PM, taylor.coyote said:

Honda has done a great job creating a brand that a lot of people trust and are willing to pay the extra $$... Can you trust a $900 Predator or do you need to spend $2,600 for peace of mind for the Honda 3200

We've generally bought essential equipment "for the long run." Therefore,  Honda fan.

We did buy an inexpensive Westinghouse genset to build the pole barn a few years ago. Since we were sharing it with the crew, I  wasn't terribly worried about longevity vs price. Nor did I  think they'd likely care for it the same way we would. I liked the low oil cutoff, too, for that same reason.

Surprisingly, the Westinghouse was relatively quiet, and quoted a total harmonic distortion  of 3 per cent or less, so I've not been worried about using it for the trailer, if necessary,  either. (A lot if old open frame type gensets can damage electronics. Most inverter gensets claim clean sine wave, 5 per cent or less, much like house current.)

I will say that first oil change on the Westinghouse was pretty gunky. I'd do oil changes early and often on lesser priced gear, honestly. 

The main complaint I've seen on the big predator is overheating, in hotter ambient conditions,  and having to remove the insulated covers to alleviate that condition. 

We all have to pick our poisons. 

I really like Honda (and Yamaha) longevity. However, if you're not thinking you'll be using a genset for the next 15 to 20 years, the payback may not be there...

For three or four years' projected  use, and maybe longer, perhaps buy the Predator, and maybe purchase the extended warranty, if it's not too pricey?

I  haven't seen any stats on THD on the predator,  but, as I  said before, most "likely" 5  per cent or under. I'd like to see that documented, with all the electronics in our trailers.

 

 

[Frank C]

3 hours ago, HDRider said:

I don't know what to do with this statement, "the batteries and/or the battery charger have a charge current limit setting.   So they typically do not allow that high of a charge current."

 

You helped reinforce my self professed ignorance on this subject.

 

I like this much mo better!  At 14.25 volts it is  an estimated charge time: 1.5 hours

It won’t charge in 1.5 hours.  The battery charger won’t allow the full 2000 watts available from the generator to be used.  So you have to change that value on that website calculator.  Change the charge current to amps and enter 50 amps.   

[ScubaRx]

15 hours ago, HDRider said:

I found this handy site

 

It says it would take a 2,000 Watt generator 12 hours to charge the batteries to 100%.

 

https://footprinthero.com/battery-charge-time-calculator

 

 

Fuel powered generators output AC voltage not DC voltage. A 2000 watt generator running at full throttle will output 120 VAC or about 16 amps (Amps = Watts / Volts). RV generators provide AC power to run whatever charger/converter you have onboard. The charger/converter outputs the DC power to charge your batteries and/or run your 12 volt devices.

[ChrisMI]

11 hours ago, HDRider said:

You helped reinforce my self professed ignorance on this subject.

Overall just remember that watts = volts x amps

Beyond that there are efficiency losses (think heat produced by the charger/inverter) and current limits (amps) on the batteries and chargers.

Most batteries have a current limit on the batteries that should be observed for battery longevity.  However, this current is per battery. So if you have a bank of batteries, like three 100ah BB’s (50 amps each charge rate), the charger could theoretically be set at 150 amps.  

[Patriot]

On 4/23/2023 at 10:58 PM, taylor.coyote said:

No doubt Honda has done a great job creating a brand that a lot of people trust and are willing to pay the extra $$... Can you trust a $900 Predator or do you need to spend $2,600 for peace of mind for the Honda 3200?

Based on years of trouble free experience with Honda generators, motorcycles, and mowers, I trust Honda products. 

[MobileJoy]

On 4/17/2023 at 6:43 AM, HDRider said:

My Oliver Elite II is on order.  It is coming with 390 AH Lithium batteries, 400 Watt Solar panels with charge controller and 3,000 Watt Pro inverter.

I have the 2021 version (same except 340 Watt Zamp solar).

You indicated interest in a powerful Champion generator, which may mean you intend to operate AC without shore power. If that's the case you should consider the Platinum package with 630A batteries if you are willing to spend the money and there is still time to change your order. The Champion conflicts with your original statement about having an "as small as possible" generator. The following assumes a small generator.

For winter storage I purchased an external charger that will operate off of a 15A circuit and outputs 20A to the batteries. I have a 20A outlet available at my storage location. I hook up the charger and turn on the battery heating pads. The Xantrex Pro 3000w inverter remains Off with no shore power. See the Lithionics Storage Procedure for more information.

One time we arrived at a campground that had sagging voltage and could not use the Xantrex because the AC power would be shut down by the EMS during the frequent sags. Solar was insufficient at that campsite and time of year. The campground lent us a  voltage regulator (I do not have a generator). My meter said that the separate 120v circuit was stable. Thus having the spare charger could have been used in that situation. It might be usable in yours too, if you are willing to operate in low consumption mode (no AC, no microwave) while charging.

The Xantrex charge output is configurable, and I believe the default is set to 150A at 14.4V (or 1860 watts). This is equivalent to 18A at 120v. At that rate it should charge fully depleted batteries in a few hours (given its charging states that slow down charging at the end of the cycle). Keep in mind that this is the charge output. The input power required should be somewhat higher. If your generator won't handle that, you can configure the charge output down to as low as 5A.

My solar can optimally output up to 150ah per day (full summer sun all day long). Yours should meet or exceed that. A 20A charger should be able to output 20A x 24h = 480ah per day in theory, so it should be able to fully charge your batteries in less than one day. If your generator fuel tank lasts 8 hours then you should be able to replace 160ah in that amount of time (not counting solar).

See here for more info on external chargers. I finally bought the Lithionics charger directly from Lithionics for $199. At some point I will follow up on that post explaining why I chose it and how I hook it up and place it in the battery compartment. Good to have handy should the Xantrex fail.

[scottarue]

On 4/17/2023 at 8:59 AM, dewdev said:

You will also need a ground plug that is connected into one of the other generator receptacle to get the power into the OTT.

I am stupid! Can you explain more about this? I thought all I had to do was use a 30amp to 15amp adaptor and plug the OTT into the generator and it would work. When you say I ALSO need a ground plug that is connected into one of the other generator receptacle, what do you mean?

[ScubaRx]

46 minutes ago, scottarue said:

I am stupid! Can you explain more about this? I thought all I had to do was use a 30amp to 15amp adaptor and plug the OTT into the generator and it would work. When you say I ALSO need a ground plug that is connected into one of the other generator receptacle, what do you mean?

All RV electrical systems are wired with their Ground and Neutral buses floated (unbonded from each other). There are lots of good reasons for this, most specifically that it’s an NEC and RVIA code requirement that the safety ground wire never carries any load current. Also, there can be only one Ground-to-Neutral bonding point in any distributed electrical system in the USA.

So when your RV is powered by its on-board generator, this G-N bond connection is created by the transfer switch set to generator mode. But when the transfer switch is set to receive shore power, your RV expects the external power source to bond its Ground and Neutral wires together.

Now, if you have an inline voltage monitor system (EMS) from a manufacturer such as Progressive Industries, your voltage monitor is checking for the Neutral and Ground voltages to be very close to each other, probably within 3 volts or so.

This works well if you’re plugged into shore power that’s properly grounded and bonded, but this voltage protector can be tripped off by plugging your RV shore power plug into a portable generator without an internal Neutral-Ground bond. If you don’t have a voltage protection device on your RV, then you may never know that your generator has a floated neutral (unbonded G-N bus).

I doubt you're stupid, but after being a member here for going on 3 years, I'm surprised you've never seen this mentioned before.

[Frank C]

1 hour ago, scottarue said:

I am stupid! Can you explain more about this? I thought all I had to do was use a 30amp to 15amp adaptor and plug the OTT into the generator and it would work. When you say I ALSO need a ground plug that is connected into one of the other generator receptacle, what do you mean?

This is what you need.  A neutral - ground bonding plug.  It’s a plug that ties the neutral and ground lines together on the generator.  This gets plugged into one outlet on the generator and then the trailer gets plugged into the other outlet on the generator.  Or, if you are comfortable doing basic electrical wiring you can also make your own using a standard replacement plug and a copper jumper wire as some owners have done.  
Southwire Company LLC Neutral-Ground Bonding Plug
https://a.co/d/gkhoMF0

 

[abcsfam]

I just put this dual fuel Westinghouse in the tray.  We live in Alabama and A/C is a fact of life for close weekend trips and it does run whatever we need and charge the lithiums while doing so.   I hated buying something this big and heavy but in the moment it seemed like the right gen set. following the purchase of the trailer and I think I will like not having gasoline cans to deal with.   I might upgrade to the Honda 3200 in the future once my budget has some time to recover.   

[ScubaRx]

48 minutes ago, abcsfam said:

I just put this dual fuel Westinghouse in the tray.  We live in Alabama and A/C is a fact of life for close weekend trips and it does run whatever we need and charge the lithiums while doing so.   I hated buying something this big and heavy but in the moment it seemed like the right gen set. following the purchase of the trailer and I think I will like not having gasoline cans to deal with.   I might upgrade to the Honda 3200 in the future once my budget has some time to recover.   

As you know, this generator will run on either gasoline or propane. It is rated at 4500 Watts peak and 4050 Watts continuous running on gasoline and 3700 Watts Peak and 3330 Watts continuous running on propane. The difference is due to the BTU's of gasoline vs propane. There is about a 20% decrease in efficiency  using propane. But, you have chosen a great generator and I think going to a Honda 3200 would be a step backward. That 3200 watt rating is contingent on using gasoline. You're much better off with this one as it will easily run your AC or charge your batteries, maybe at the same time plus electric and remote start. What could be better? Good choice.

[Patriot]

11 hours ago, abcsfam said:

 I might upgrade to the Honda 3200 in the future once my budget has some time to recover.   

 

@abcsfam 

That Westinghouse 4500 will likely serve you well. I considered a number of different generators when looking a few months ago. I agree with you. The Westinghouse 4500 dry weight at 104 lbs caused me to pause and take a step backward. I have had several Hondas over the years which have always started and served me well.
I can honestly say a future upgrade to a 40# lighter “suitcase” Honda 3200i will be so appreciated by your back as the years go by.
As an fyi, there is a company called https://genconnexdirect.net/eu3200i. that sells the 3200i with an LP conversion. Pricey at $3200 plus shipping. With a Veterans discount, I paid $2500 at Northern Tool  for our gas only 3200i OTD. There are always trade offs.

Patriot🇺🇸

 

[jd1923]

Back when we had our Class-C, and before we added solar, we would run a built-in Cummins Onan 4000 generator. The PD51 transfer switch automatically connected generator power to house "shore power."

We would run ours only during the afternoons. I would start it when we were leaving on a hike. This way you don't have to hear it (even though it wasn't too loud), and neighbors are also usually gone for the day. After I added a small 400W Solar, 315 AH AGM, 1800W inverter system, we rarely ever used the generator. I would start it every month or so to let it run, keep the carb in fresh gas.

We had a neighbor in Texas, who mowed his lawn 2-3 times a week, always about 6 PM, when we wanted to sit by the pool with a drink. Not nice, same goes for generators!

Plan on enough available battery AH to last 24 hours for your needs. Your generator choice should be capable of recharging your batteries from 60 to 90 percent in a couple of hours, a couple more to 100%.

For our Oliver, with solar onboard and ample battery bank, traveling mainly in the great southwestern US, I have no plan to carry a generator. We camp some in the fall, and mostly from Jan through April. We don't want to be out where we need the A/C running overnight.

[Geronimo John]

On 5/7/2023 at 3:30 PM, SeaDawg said:

I really like Honda (and Yamaha) longevity.

However, the Yamaha has a smaller motor and will not run some A/C units with or without an EZ start as a result... despite being a 2000 watt inverter.  Both the Honda 2000 EU and 2200 EU inverters will.