two unrelated but newbie questions: how to drain the fresh water tank & what antifreeze product for winterization

[Boudicca908]

Help! 

DRAINING THE FRESH WATER TANK?

I've watched the videos, and I find learning to be fun -- but I opened the valve to drain the Fresh Water tank and nothing happens, even after several hours. What am I not doing here? Is there something else to it?

I have never filled that tank; I always used City Water connection. But a service center put water in there.  I want to drain it out, clean the tank and drain it again, then possibly winterize before I get back to OTT headquarters in October.

WHAT "CONCENTRATE" VERSION OF NON-TOXIC RV ANTIFREEZE FOR WINTERIZATION?

I'm in a very very remote location. No one has concentrated nontoxic antifreeze (even within an hour's drive), so Amazon. I notice a few different versions, and BOY are they expensive. I want to order the right thing. Can someone chime in for me? Notice that the second one doesn't say "concentrate" -- it's "ready to use" whereas the other one says "concentrate ... 3:1". 

 

[SeaDawg]

Imo, any good -50 pink rv antifreeze is fine. Concentrate may be convenient  to carry, but, whoah, that price?

Autozone, camping world, even walmart should have it soon. September is winterizing time, in many parts of the country. 

Autozone often has it year round, near us.

[topgun2]

Try THIS stuff from WalMart.  Either order and have it shipped to a store near you or shipped to your home.  Its good to 50 below!

Bill

p.s.  another hint - in order to keep your toilet seal from drying out (assuming that you have the standard toilet) pour a couple of cups of this stuff in the bowl and then use "plastic cling" material (Saran Wrap) over the top of the ceramic bowl to keep it from evaporating.

[Boudicca908]

On the OTT winterization video, they say "Concentrated Non-Toxic RV antifreeze" and "do not dilute". Maybe I'm misinterpreting what they are saying? 

EDIT: here is the video for Elite 2 Winterization... https://support.olivertraveltrailers.com/portal/en/kb/articles/article

Unfortunately, Walmart is about 80 minutes away, like everything else. I called around. Even places that carry RV stuff locally say they can't obtain it at a decent price (they don't sell large enough quantities). @topgun2 I actually have Nature's Head composting toilet, so I can skip that part. And I'm guessing I won't have to worry about pumping antifreeze into the Black Tank Flush port either, since it isn't used. 

Any ideas on draining the Fresh Water tank? I've lifted the front of the Oliver some but not a great deal. Do I need to run a faucet to break a vacuum or something? I tried with the City Water on and the City Water off. Nothing -- not one drop -- comes out of that drain port. I think I see where the drain tube goes through the hull, right next to the valve, just inboard from the rear tires on curbside, correct? 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Boudicca908
added link to referenced video

[topgun2]

In most places WalMart will deliver.  I've been told by a friend that gets deer corn delivered that WalMart now automatically adds on a gratuity for the driver to your bill but it will save you a round trip of over 160 miles.

The stuff I showed above should NOT be diluted.

I doubt that you will ever get your fresh water tank totally empty.  What does your gauge inside the Oliver tell you as to how empty it is?  Even if there is a little water left in there and it freezes there will be no harm done.  Perhaps just to make sure that you have the valve in the "open/drain" position, you might want to try putting more water into the fresh water tank while keeping that valve open.  The water you are adding should simply (almost immediately) start to flow out from that drain tube under the Ollie.

Bill

[Boudicca908]

16 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

What does your gauge inside the Oliver tell you

25% -- and it hasn't moved a bit, and no water coming out. 

I'll try adding to it, and let you know what happens.

Okay, I added water to the tank to 31% AND I lifted front of the trailer a bit more, and it worked. THANKS!

[topgun2]

13 hours ago, Boudicca908 said:

Okay, I added water to the tank to 31% AND I lifted front of the trailer a bit more, and it worked. THANKS!

Well, all that shows you is that you've got the drain valve open.  

I assume that your gauge inside the Ollie still shows that you have at least some water left in that fresh water tank?

When I know that I'll be wanting to drain the fresh water tank I use an old ScubaRx trick - open that drain valve BEFORE leaving your last site.  That way the water drains out of that tank while you drive down the road.  This means that any water in the tank will go back and forth and from side to side thus making sure that more of it drains out.  If you are now at your normal storage place - another thing that you can try besides lifting the nose of the Ollie is to use the rear stabilizers to tilt your Ollie from side to side.  Of course, you could also use blocks under your tires but that would mean that you would have to move the Oliver onto those blocks and then back off the blocks again.

Bill

[dewdev]

When I first bought my Oliver Used (which was winterized), I followed the Oliver University direction on de-winterizing the lines and tanks and disinfecting the fresh water system and tanks.

When I went to drain the fresh water tank, no water came out. I check the level gauge and the tank was full. I then used my crawler board to easily get under the Ollie to where the drain line came out. By pushing air up into the drain pipe, it will disloge anything plugging the pipe. Apparently there was material in the tank blocking the outlet hose. Once I did that, the water drained out of the tank. I did that 3 years ago and have not had to repeat it.

[topgun2]

Back to the RV antifreeze issue - 

When you do finally get your hands on this stuff, and it is at a reasonable price (should be under $4.00 per gallon) be sure to buy 4 to 6 gallons.

If you have the standard water heater, be sure to use the by-pass valve before you start to winterize - if you don't , you will simply be filling the 6 gallon water heater for no real purpose.  Then when you winterize it should only take about 2 gallons of antifreeze to do the job (including pumping some into the outside ports, a bit into each drain ((kitchen, bath sink and bath shower pan)) and some into the toilet as I mentioned above.

After winterization you will then still have 2 to 4 gallons left over (assuming that you bought the 4 to 6 I recommend).  This extra allows you to not worry about getting some for next year, allows you to de-winterize on short notice if you want to take a quick trip somewhere and allows you to replenish your antifreeze stock when you find it at a good price.

Bill 

[topgun2]

1 minute ago, dewdev said:

Once I did that, the water drained out of the tank. I did that 3 years ago and have not had to repeat it.

Thank goodness!

Did you get wet that first time?

[Boudicca908]

On 8/11/2023 at 7:05 PM, topgun2 said:

What does your gauge inside the Oliver tell you as to how empty it is?

So.... I only partially emptied the tank, because I took a trip on Saturday. I'll continue to drain it and see how low I can get it. If the tanks have a small bit of water left in them, is that okay for winterization, as long as I fill the lines between ports and tank? ** I only use fresh and gray -- I have composting toilet.

On 8/12/2023 at 9:12 AM, dewdev said:

Once I did that, the water drained out of the tank.

@dewdev -- Did it hit you in the face?! 

On 8/12/2023 at 9:13 AM, topgun2 said:

If you have the standard water heater, be sure to use the by-pass valve before you start to winterize - if you don't , you will simply be filling the 6 gallon water heater for no real purpose.

@topgun2 I have the Truma Aqua-Go water heater, and I believe I have to use the bypass valve for it, as well, whenever winterizing and also when sanitizing the tanks and lines. I will watch those videos again because I want to be sure I'm doing everything correctly.  I do have the optional electric heater / filter for that Truma. Can it run using the solar lithium batteries, if I'm boondocked? Does the Truma WH need to be TURNED ON at the Water Heater AND at the Truma control inside for that heater element to work? I believe it does. My friend has a wild hair to boondock for about 3 weeks in the Black Hills, Yellowstone and Grant Teton beginning after Labor Day; I don't have a generator. I'm hoping that my batteries will last that long, if I'm not using anything else. I can recharge my phone in the TV, and I can use a flashlight if need be. As long as I can keep my Oliver safe, I'm fine with the cold. I brought a down sleeping bag. 

I'm likely going to drive back to Bismarck to stock up on things for this upcoming journey (parts unknown!) which is the adventure I have been yearning for. Since I'm still without use of propane, I am preparing to winterize, stocking up on drinking water and alternative foodstuff that doesn't need to be kept in the fridge. It's a bit frustrating since I brought a lot of great food to cook, but that's okay. @topgun2 thanks for the advice on 4-6 gallons of AntiFreeze. 

 

[topgun2]

3 minutes ago, Boudicca908 said:

If the tanks have a small bit of water left in them, is that okay for winterization, as long as I fill the lines between ports and tank? ** I only use fresh and gray -- I have composting toilet.

Yes-  a small bit of water left in the fresh water tank (and the grey and black tanks to0) is OK - there is plenty of room for that small bit of water to expand during freezing without hurting anything.  Just be sure that all of the supply lines that run to these tanks are winterized and this includes those ports on the outside of the Ollie that are used to fill these tanks and the outside shower too.

I have the standard water heater - not the Truma.  If there is anything "special" that you need to do with that fancy thing, hopefully you'll be able to figure it out.

8 minutes ago, Boudicca908 said:

My friend has a wild hair to boondock for about 3 weeks in the Black Hills, Yellowstone and Grant Teton beginning after Labor Day; I don't have a generator. I'm hoping that my batteries will last that long, if I'm not using anything else.

I've camped in Yellowstone, the Tetons and northeast of Yellowstone many times.  Your solar and batteries should hold you in good stead - mine have never been below 82% FULL!  This includes four days of rain and snow.  Just make sure that you have plenty of propane and you should have no problems - if you can't use propane for some reason then do you have a heater similar to the Mr. Buddy (like THIS?)

Bill

p.s.  there is usually great "hopper" fishing in that area through the end of September.

[Boudicca908]

10 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

Just make sure that you have plenty of propane and you should have no problems - if you can't use propane for some reason then do you have a heater similar to the Mr. Buddy (like THIS?)

 

I have (3) 20# tanks of propane, but I can't use propane right now with my Oliver because of an ongoing suspected propane leak (the alarm has gone off 3 times on the trip, but the last time it went off my propane had been shut down for days).  I bought a DREO space heater and will try it out tonight. I wasn't sure I could run the heater using the lithium batteries -- wouldn't it drain them?

EDIT: Dreo spacer heater is 1500w. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Boudicca908

[topgun2]

17 minutes ago, Boudicca908 said:

I wasn't sure I could run the heater using the lithium batteries -- wouldn't it drain them?

EDIT: Dreo spacer heater is 1500w. 

Yes - any electric space heater will take energy out of your batteries as will any other device that runs off electricity.  You will have to manage your electric usage carefully - particularly if you have cloudy days when your solar can't keep up with the drain.

That is why I mentioned the Mr. Buddy type heater.

Bill

[John E Davies]

You need to have a backup generator, at least 1000 watts, a Honda EU1000i is perfect for recharging the batteries for those days when you have no solar at all. You will have to adjust down the Oliver charger settings but can get about 40 -45 amps into your batteries without a problem this way. It should be gasoline powered since it appears that you will never have any propane 😉 or if you get it fixed and it runs out.

Honda EU1000i
 

If the Dreo is the model I suggested you can run it in its Eco setting and it won’t use 1500 watts. But don’t run it off the batteries except for a short while. You have to balance your energy consumption with the available energy that recharges the batteries. There is no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to solar  systems…

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Frank C]

1 hour ago, Boudicca908 said:

I have (3) 20# tanks of propane, but I can't use propane right now with my Oliver because of an ongoing suspected propane leak (the alarm has gone off 3 times on the trip, but the last time it went off my propane had been shut down for days).

Have you confirmed the propane leak with a combustible gas sniffer?   Or just with the Oliver alarm going off?  If you’re still getting an alarm even with the propane shut off for days, the Oliver alarm may be bad (they do age and need replaced) and it can also be triggered by various air fresheners.  Lysol aerosol spray will trigger it, and we just discovered this Glade air freshener will trigger it too if the camper is closed up for a few days (propane tanks off, no propane used for weeks).  

[Boudicca908]

56 minutes ago, Frank C said:

Have you confirmed the propane leak with a combustible gas sniffer?

Sniffer arrived in mail today. I'm volunteering today, so I'll use it this evening to search. Propane leak was determined through multiple drop tests (I didn't get written copy) and other work by a service center; after tracing to the Truma AquaGo WH, and after replacement of that heater, the alarm went off again (2nd time) and then I had propane off for a few days and it went off a 3rd time. So this is ongoing. There's another thread about the propane leak. 

[ScubaRx]

On 8/12/2023 at 8:12 AM, dewdev said:

...I put my mouth over the outline pipe and blew into the pipe...

And this is the point in every story where things usually start to go belly-up...

Sounds like the story of Raggot the Gerbil.

[dewdev]

Poor choice of words on my side. I revised my original post

[Boudicca908]

7 hours ago, dewdev said:

Poor choice of words

I don't know about word choice, but I'll say you are more brave than I am. :) 

[Boudicca908]

So.... I'm working on winterizing, because I'd rather do it now, while I still have access to power water wifi etc, rather than waiting until later. I leave in the morning (note: likely no cell / wifi or computer access after I leave early tomorrow). I'm anticipating low 30s, but I know the weather can turn around fast out here. I'll be boon docking until early to mid-October, in WY, UT, CO Rockies. 

And now I'm BACK to this issue of not being able to get the Fresh Water Tank to drain below "19%" on the SeeLevel monitor.  I've lifted the trailer front (some more came out), moved side to side with stabilizers (some more came out) but the SeeLevel still reads 19%. That 19 seems to be a magic number with the SeeLevel. (haha)  I am NOT brave enough to blow in that hole, @dewdev but am wondering if I can find something to use to dislodge if there is blockage which there doesn't seem to be, with the dripping that came along earlier. I've had it open all day. I know that OTT staff do NOT recommend using blown air to dry out the water lines. 

QUESTION: I have been assuming that I MUST drain the tank all the way in order to Winterize. IS THAT CORRECT?  I've watched Jason's great winterization video (and the valve configuration video), read the articles on the process, and watched the Truma video. I've already taken care of my Truma AquaGo Winterization (drained, turned off, filter removed and stowed). All I have left to do is:

1. Finish Draining the Fresh Water Tank.

2. Add the AntiFreeze to everything. 

Can I go ahead and add the Antifreeze and just drive with the Drain Valve open under the curbside and see if the SeeLevel monitor registers lower level when I arrive tomorrow evening at my first destination? 

[Mike and Carol]

1 hour ago, Boudicca908 said:

QUESTION: I have been assuming that I MUST drain the tank all the way in order to Winterize. IS THAT CORRECT? 

I think if you have a little water left on the bottom of the tank there’s no need to worry.  It will freeze but won’t cause any damage.  Someone can correct me if I’m wrong.  I’ve never winterized so I don’t have any direct experience.

 I drained my fresh tank yesterday and had the same result you did, 19% no matter what I did.  Mike

[Boudicca908]

Thank you for your reply —

I have about 30 minutes before sunset… I’m going to start pumping antifreeze. Seems to me, with the winterization valve configuration, the antifreeze is only going to lines and faucets, not to the fresh water tank (or other tanks.) 

But if anyone disagrees, I hope they will let me know. (I’m still wearing training wheels, apparently!) 

[Rivernerd]

3 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

I drained my fresh tank yesterday and had the same result you did, 19% no matter what I did.

Your Seelevel tank level monitor may be grossly inaccurate, like ours is.  If you have lifted the nose and only got a bit more water out, your tank is probably nearly empty, even though the monitor still reads 19%.  As Mike and Carol note, a little water in the bottom of the tank will cause no trouble when freezing.

 

5 hours ago, Boudicca908 said:

Can I go ahead and add the Antifreeze and just drive with the Drain Valve open under the curbside and see if the SeeLevel monitor registers lower level when I arrive tomorrow evening at my first destination? 

I wouldn't.  You could end up with road grime in your fresh water tank.

[topgun2]

You're doing fine - the training wheels actually never leave (hopefully).  There is always something new to learn and that makes it interesting.

Given the way that fresh water tank overflow tube is constructed, it would be fairly difficult for "road grime" to get into your fresh water tank.  For relatively short periods of time I keep that valve open while driving down the (paved) road (10 to 20 miles) or so in order to drain the tank as much as possible.  However, as it has been repeated above, no harm will come to the fresh water tank by having a bit of water in it over the winter - even if it freezes rock solid since there is plenty of room for that water to expand (assuming that you have emptied as much as you can.

It should be noted here that more than likely your black and grey tanks are not completely empty either.  Of course each of these will have some antifreeze in them as a result of putting that pink stuff through the plumbing and toilet and drains during the winterization process.

Bill

p.s.  be sure that you didn't forget to pump the pink stuff into the outside shower and the blank tank flush port.