Simple AGM to Lithium Conversion question(s)

[Galway Girl]

On 2/13/2024 at 7:39 AM, dewdev said:

Did you have to use new batttery cables when you did your upgrade or could you use use what was existing?

I was able to re-use 2 (+) cables that were on the batteries and those coming into the battery bay from the inside connections. I had to make 2  new ground cables for the battery as they were farther apart for the new batteries.  I also added a common bus bar for all grounds as I installed a Victron smart shunt for measuring battery bank status.

 

[Danno and Donna]

ARRRGH! ... Just rec'd notice that the 2 batteries I ordered have been delayed again to March 20th - too late for my March travel plans ... However, the dealer offered to provide two in-stock upgraded versions at no add'l cost ... the new versions are still 300Ah each, but with Victron Comms and a larger footprint ... he confirmed that the Victron Comms are NOT required to be used as I can manage the batteries with their same Bluetooth app.  The different footprint will require that I remove the existing battery tray to make them fit but looks to be a rather simple adjustment (fingers crossed) ... they're shipping today and should arrive in 3-5 business days (again, fingers crossed) ... getting excited about this!

[Geronimo John]

If mounting heavier (I.E. Inverters, converters, DC-DC Charging)  equipment to vertical surfaces several owners have found that just epoxy, JB Weld or other such products over time fail.  For this reason, I use and suggest also adding SS Fender washers and small bolts thru the vertical Ollie surface, the mounting board and the mounting holes of the electrical gear.  

For our 3,000 watt Renogy Inverter, I used stainless steel four sets of 3/16" bolts, fender washers and nylock nuts.  For my grins I also used JB Weld between the vertical hull surface and the cutting board mounts.   

No worries on our 15,000 mile Alaska trip and  over many Rocky Mountain fire roads.,

Geronimo 

[mossemi]

On 1/27/2024 at 11:49 AM, jd1923 said:

@Ronbrink Unless you purchased yours new, somebody must have added that galvanized threaded pipe mount! I can't imagine a purpose for such a large ugly mount in that location. 

I was reading Galway Girl's Blog about their DC System upgrade and found another pipe flange installed on the interior top of the SS wheel well.  I still don’t know why it’s there, unless I have missed someone’s response to that question, but Ronbrink's is not a 1 of mystery.

Mossey

@Ronbrink's picture

@Galway Girl's picture

[topgun2]

In the immortal words of Artie Johnson, "Very interesting".

Bill

[Ronbrink]

1 hour ago, mossemi said:

I was reading Galway Girl's Blog about their DC System upgrade and found another pipe flange installed on the interior top of the SS wheel well.

I noticed that, as well. Their 2019 OLEll 505 and my 2020 OLEll 579. I have a feeling ‘we are not alone’! 

[Geronimo John]

LOL!  Come on guys it's obviously the base mount for an "entertainment pole"!

🙂

GJ

[Ronbrink]

16 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

LOL!  Come on guys it's obviously the base mount for an "entertainment pole"!

🙂

GJ

I will have to ‘entertain’ that thought! 

[Danno and Donna]

On 2/14/2024 at 12:24 PM, Danno and Donna said:

ARRRGH! ... Just rec'd notice that the 2 batteries I ordered have been delayed again to March 20th - too late for my March travel plans ... However, the dealer offered to provide two in-stock upgraded versions at no add'l cost ... the new versions are still 300Ah each, but with Victron Comms and a larger footprint ... he confirmed that the Victron Comms are NOT required to be used as I can manage the batteries with their same Bluetooth app.  The different footprint will require that I remove the existing battery tray to make them fit but looks to be a rather simple adjustment (fingers crossed) ... they're shipping today and should arrive in 3-5 business days (again, fingers crossed) ... getting excited about this!

Batteries arrived today! (2) 12V 300AH -V2's - upgraded version that includes Victron Comms (though I'll NOT be using the Victron components/functionality at this time). They were delivered at approx. 35% charged, so I've put them on a charger in the garage to bring them up to full before install.  I expect to work on the swap on Weds & will provide updates thereafter ... cheers!

[Geronimo John]

13 hours ago, Danno and Donna said:

The different footprint will require that I remove the existing battery tray to make them fit

Although the Litho's are pretty much "Maintenance Free", having the battery tray sure is handy.  Especially if you mount a master switch, shunt, load terminal blocks and tie down straps in the battery bay as many of us have done.

Hope it works out well for you.

GJ

[SeaDawg]

Will Prowse has some great videos on his YouTube channel on the Epochs. This, from a week ago, compares features, and costs, of LiTime and Epoch.

I think I've posted this one before in another thread, but it's an interesting teardown of the Epoch 460. He's been very impressed with the case and components.

Good luck with your install. That's a whopping amount of amphours!

[Ronbrink]

I purchased two LiTime 230Ah batteries last summer, and added a transfer switch to enable use of the A/C on lithium when underway or at the storage facility; no more breaking out the genny for these brief stays! My former battery bank consisted of four 6V Trojan T105s, definitely an upgrade with a significant increase in useable power and huge reduction in weight! The Epoch 460Ah featured in Will’s video is very impressive being ‘all inclusive’, but at a cost double (based on current sale pricing) that of my LiTime purchase. That said, the saying ‘you get what you pay for’ probably rings true. Having all of the ‘bells and whistles’ in a single package may be appealing and in fact necessary for some, but not for me. I also installed a Victron SmartShunt for battery monitoring via the VictronConnect app, along with applicable fuses and bus bar; having individual components is appealing to me. I especially like that the LiTimes are a good fit in the battery tray, a convenience not worth sacrificing! I would suggest adding a platform for proper weight distribution if one decides to remove the tray; the fiberglass battery compartment bottom alone may not be supportive enough.

[Geronimo John]

 

On 2/20/2024 at 6:34 AM, Geronimo John said:

Although the Litho's are pretty much "Maintenance Free", having the battery tray sure is handy.  Especially if you mount a master switch, shunt, load terminal blocks and tie down straps in the battery bay as many of us have done.

Hope it works out well for you.

GJ

5 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

I would suggest adding a platform for proper weight distribution if one decides to remove the tray.....

We all have our reasons and justifications when it comes to spending or saving money, just respect and be understanding of others and their decisions made. 

Ron:

I caringly rewrote my above thoughts at least a dozen time specifically to be kind and respectful.  It was also made in the hopes to highlight that the apparent intent to install larger litho's without the supporting and securing battery box tray should not be executed. 

The idea of having litho's directly sitting in the battery bay may  work for a given owner's use.  But certainly would likely become a serious safety hazard should their use change.   I learned just how rough the Yukon Territory and some Alaska  "corduroy roads" are two summer ago.  For strictly highway use, unsupported and unrestrained litho's may  work just fine.  But what happens when that trailer gets sold, and the new owner  is unaware of such an install's vulnerabilities? 

As a Registered Mechanical Engineer I am ethically required to not be silent when I can foresee a significant life and fire safety hazard.  Having that much weight not fully restrained and/or supported in a battery box of a mobile application would be a problem.  Especially for a mobile application that will be subject to high amplitude multiple directional accelerations.

That said, your suggestion for a load spreading and battery restraining "platform" certainly is a suggestion in the right direction.  I think it is a great suggestion.  

But from the perspective of respect and understanding, was it appropriate for you to suggest it?  From "The knife cuts both ways" perspective; the answer is no.  But from the higher perspective of Oliver Safety and caring for our family members:  I think we can agree that both our intents were spot on.  

GJ

[Ronbrink]

GJ, when I read the OP’s statement that the battery tray would have to be removed to accommodate his new battery, my thought was the same as your original comment. I’m sorry you took it personal and my response compelled you to make a change, that was not my intent. I was actually referring to the differential cost of available batteries in today’s market in an attempt to convey that the choice of battery is a personal preference, and cost is oftentimes an irrelevant factor in achieving one’s goals. Your very rational assessment regarding battery securement based on personal experience and professional engineering background is spot on, as was your closing statement, and much appreciated. However, you lost me at “high amplitude multiple directional accelerations”! 
 

ps: edited my response, as well, thanks!

[topgun2]

34 minutes ago, Ronbrink said:

“high amplitude multiple directional accelerations”

The battery(ies) could be subject to bouncing around in there? 😬

[Geronimo John]

Danno and Donna:

Can the two Epoch batteries be mounted on their sides and still fit into the existing tray as a result?  If so, I would orient it to have the air vent high vs.  low.

GJ

[jd1923]

On 2/19/2024 at 8:11 PM, Danno and Donna said:

Batteries arrived today! (2) 12V 300AH -V2's - upgraded version that includes Victron Comms (though I'll NOT be using the Victron components/functionality at this time). They were delivered at approx. 35% charged, so I've put them on a charger in the garage to bring them up to full before install.  I expect to work on the swap on Weds & will provide updates thereafter ... cheers!

I'm reading other posts since this one 3 days ago...
Do the two (2) 12V 300AH -V2 Epoch batteries fit in the OEM OTT battery tray as-is standing right side up fit?!?!?

[Danno and Donna]

Sorry Group ... worked on this all day yesterday & then got pulled elsewhere today ... it's pretty much finished, but I may make some tweaks.  In all, once in place the actual connections and settings was the easy part.  Most of the work was in redesigning and rebuilding the tray.  As things worked out, I removed the OEM slide out tray but used the tray base (keeping its original dimensions) and welded in a few cross members - one large one in the rear for stability and tiedown bracket, and 4 smaller "'c" channels to carry/spread the weight.  Importantly, that allowed me to use the existing bolts & holes (no add'l drilling & tapping).  However ... with this setup I had to turn the batteries sideways to fit.  The downside to this is 1) no slide out drawer for ease of maintenance, 2) sideways orientation made it a little difficult to reach in to make the connections.  That said, since there are only the two batteries, the total number of connections was less and for future servicing they're relatively easy to remove and/or move.  Note that with their height, the working area for connections was a little tight, but well doable.  Sometime in the future I'd like to re-do the tray ... I'd widen it slightly side-to-side (only need another 1/2 inch! - I got a little tired and lazy & wanted to save some welding) and "oblong" the holes in the base, to fit the existing holes in the floor of the compartment. This would allow me to be able to turn 90 degrees (from shown) & have the lugs of both facing outward & side-by-side ... that'll make connecting and servicing much easier, even without the sliding drawer.

Re-setting of the BlueSky Solar charging via the IPN Remote (unique to the earlier 2014/15 models) was straight forward, flipping the PD charger/controller from AGM to LI was super easy (accessible after removing the faceplate of the control unit), and (as mentioned earlier) the 7-PIN charge circuit had already been disabled ... so, ALL DONE! turned the breakers back on and, viola! ... it all worked!  Now, just want to let it work for a few days.

A few related notes:

Kevin at EPOCH Batteries was very helpful ... placed a call on Thursday mid-morning (just before I started tearing everything apart - wanted to confirm the BlueSky Solar charge settings & had a couple of misc questions) ... he returned my call within about 20 minutes, was patient, and happy to share knowledge and advise on appropriate concerns.  By the way, I'll mention here that documentation from EPOCH for the batteries is virtually nonexistent - they seem to depend on their online community for FAQs and group responses.  Didn't bother me much though as, again, the swap out was pretty straight forward ... my call to EPOCH was really for confirmation and confidence building more than anything else.

The EPOCH Bluetooth app works OK but could use some refinement.  Each battery has its own Bluetooth connection, each battery is queried and displayed separately - a side-by-side of both would be more convenient.  The app offers a minute-by-minute history of status of each, but after a short while you'll need to scroll extensively to get to the most recent data - that gets old really fast.  That said, the app interface provided some very good info. An upgrade, of course (suggested by the EPOCH folks). would be to install a shunt in conjunction with a remote monitor (Victron perhaps).  Related, since the app is Bluetooth to the batteries (using my iPhone), the data feed & status indicators drops once your about 20 feet from the trailer - I am worried that I'll not be able to see it from the driver seat of my truck ... still not a huge deal for me as I check the app only when in or near the trailer anyway.

Oh ... and the OEM tiedown straps were too short.  I replaced them with a simple ratchet strap ... it works but is not quite as "elegant" as I'd like.  I'm gonna shop Amazon for a better strap setup.

In all, I think I accomplished what I'd set to do - simple battery swap with no add'l components needed.  The battery tray rebuild was more than I'd hoped, but otherwise I'm happy.  I can appreciate that some add'l componentry and the conveniences that would provide, but I'll save that for another time.  Questions?

Oh ... and ... thanks, everyone, for your guidance and insights on this thread ... I've really grown to love our Oliver community over the past 3 years.  Cheers! -Dan

[Danno and Donna]

7 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Danno and Donna:

Can the two Epoch batteries be mounted on their sides and still fit into the existing tray as a result?  If so, I would orient it to have the air vent high vs.  low.

GJ

 

3 hours ago, jd1923 said:

I'm reading other posts since this one 3 days ago...
Do the two (2) 12V 300AH -V2 Epoch batteries fit in the OEM OTT battery tray as-is standing right side up fit?!?!?

Mmmm ... I don't think an upright (on end?) config will work - not enough height in the compartment ... see the dimensions of batteries in my pics.  Note that the side-by-side config requires right at 16" of width - interestingly OEM tray base is 15 7/8" ... thus, I'll widen it by about another 1/2" in my future "tweeks".  Did this answer your question(s)?

[jd1923]

11 hours ago, Danno and Donna said:

...Note that the side-by-side config requires right at 16" of width - interestingly OEM tray base is 15 7/8" ... thus, I'll widen it by about another 1/2" in my future "tweeks".  Did this answer your question(s)?

You purchased the model with the Victron comms: 12V 300Ah V2 Heated Bluetooth LiFePO4 Battery - Epoch Essentials (epochbatteries.com) Wondering what that does for you, that adding the Victron SmartShunt would not do? I already have this shunt and their smart Bluetooth dongle for communication purposes.

This Epoch model is also 300AH without the Victron comms but slightly smaller, so thinking it would fit in the OTT OEM battery tray as-is. Are there other features that made you decide on the higher-end and slightly larger model vs. this one? 12V 300Ah Heated & Bluetooth LiFePO4 Battery - Epoch Essentials (epochbatteries.com)

I just read your comment above again. It appears you ordered the smaller model but was supplied the V2 model instead since it was in stock, in time for your trip. Still wondering if the V2 model is worth it considering fit. Other V2 benefits?

Edited February 23 by jd1923
Added last para

[Geronimo John]

20 hours ago, Danno and Donna said:

work was in redesigning and rebuilding the tray. 

Time WELL spent!  

With twin 300's, you can easily power up a medium size gathering!

Glad for your 100% success.  

GJ

[SeaDawg]

I just now looked at specs

I found it interesting, when I looked,   that the newer victron connect battery has a much lower water/dust  resistance rating (ip 21 vs ip54 on earlier Bluetooth model. ) I would suggest that you vent to the inside, to avoid water/dust  intrusion. (Check with manufacturer. ) probably block/waterproof the external vents, and, if it were me, put an extra "eyebrow" of water relief above the battety compartment, aka Eze rv gutter. 

The 460 ah battery we ordered for our boat is ip67. And, has bolt down features integrated into the waterproof case. 

We are sailors, as well as campers, so I'm always looking at ip ratings. 

[Danno and Donna]

11 hours ago, jd1923 said:

JD - I just read your comment above again. It appears you ordered the smaller model but was supplied the V2 model instead since it was in stock, in time for your trip. Still wondering if the V2 model is worth it considering fit. Other V2 benefits?

Hey JD ... yeah, woulda preferred the original basic model as it would have been an easier fit in the existing tray ... but with our travel plans I couldn't afford the delivery delay(s) (now expected in late March) ... and since the V2's were offered at no add'l cost I decided to go for it. Add'l features/benefits? ... mmm, I think the Victron and/or CANbus ports would definitely be worth it for anyone who already has (or is planning for) those components. The heavy steel casing seems very strong and substantial, but I'm not sure that created any additional value for me - that would not have been a deciding factor for me. One add'l note - each of the units has its own shutoff switch built into the top of the case (right near the red negative post in my pics) ... so, eliminates the need for a master battery shutoff ... thought that was a real nice feature .  I believe the lesser model comes with a "remote shutoff" - also nice, but would require additional holes to be drilled and wiring the installation for them ... I actually prefer them right on the unit as on the V2's.

[Danno and Donna]

2 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

I just now looked at specs

I found it interesting, when I looked,   that the newer Victron connect battery has a much lower water/dust  resistance rating (ip 21 vs ip54 on earlier Bluetooth model. ) I would suggest that you vent to the inside, to avoid water/dust  intrusion. (Check with manufacturer. ) probably block/waterproof the external vents, and, if it were me, put an extra "eyebrow" of water relief above the battery compartment, aka Eze rv gutter. 

The 460 ah battery we ordered for our boat is ip67. And, has bolt down features integrated into the waterproof case.

SeaDawg - good callout, not something I'd paid attention to.  That said, given the substantial nature of the heavy steel case, I think I'm ok with it. I need to re-check but I think the manufacture indicated no venting necessary ... so, with that, I like your idea of closing off the external vents and the Eze gutter - think I might do that ... thanks for the tip! Also, I really liked the single 460Ah unit and almost went with it ...really liked the bolt down feature and a singly unit would have easily fit the compartment ... but then figured it was a good value for another $200 to gain an add'l 140 Ah (2 x 300 Ah) ... adds another nearly 2+ days of off-grid boondocking to my trips!

[Danno and Donna]

3 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Time WELL spent!  

With twin 300's, you can easily power up a medium size gathering!

Glad for your 100% success.  

GJ

Thanks GJ ... as I have them wired in parallel I can't really power any more than before ... but I can certainly keep the party going quite a bit longer ... Cheers!