Geronimo John

@ HOBO: Welcome to our Forum! You may want to fill in some info in your Profile, such as your tow vehicle and which Oliver you are purchasing. IF you don't have a pick-up style tow vehicle (TV), then you are most likely going to want to carry your grill in/on your Oliver. If that is the case for transporting your grill, four options come to my mind: Jerry rig a mount for it on the bumper (Ugly), the rear storage compartment, in the trailer tongue box or get creative with another option. You will find that very quickly you will fill up your rear storage space with items that need to go there (Search: "Milk Crate" or "buckets"). The front tongue storage "box" for owners that have not yet converted their TV to a pick-up, generally use the front box for muddy things such as "dunage" or "Chocks" (Lots of discussions on those two topics can be searched), maybe their "generator" (Another great Forum topic to search), or possibly a 2 1/2 gallon "gas can" should you be a boondocker or not have a mega gas tank in your TV. And some of us use the front tow box for all of those items. Problem is that most of the popular grills take up more space than is available to those owners that don't have a pick-up style TV's. I quickly found that the obvious spaces get filled with other higher priority things, or take up space (Front storage box) that is needed by things that get messy. I am now thinking of a grill that can be put into a storage case and sat on the floor of the bathroom for transport! That way if it "leaks", the impact and clean-up would be contained and easy to deal with. I would be very interested in hearing what other creative ideas our Owners have come up with for their grills. Should this be your situation, I recommend that you not "pre-buy" a grill, but wait until you shake out the storage spaces first. Then buy a grill that is sized to fit the place you plan on transporting and storing it. Sort of a "Measure twice and buy the grill once" approach.

@ Hobo: To search you first must log in. Then go to Forums/Recent Topics. There is a bar just below the words "Recent Topics". Enter in your search string. Try: "Outdoor propane grill and griddle recommendations". It will lead you to a robust discussion of this topic. The Search function of our Forum is a great resource. I use it all the time!

In addition to all of the above, we use it to provide ventilation to feed the Max Fan. Definitely needed. That said, I like Bill's suggestion that it should be tinted to match the other windows.

I bet combining the above would be fun and work best: String a set of LED lights in a tree by your neighbor's trailer. Hang the lights in a circle around a bug zapper, plugged into your neighbor's outdoor outlet. While wearing full dark cammo, it would be fun to watch in the dark under the cover of the Oliver Shade, armed with a "Lawn and Garden" Bug-A-Salt adapted with night vision sights. So that my wife can have some fun, we would need an Elucto Electric Bug Zapper hot wired to two 9V (in parallel of course) for any bugs that were blind and unlucky to wander into our Bug Controlled Airspace. Once our batteries run out, we would retreat into Ollie, open wide the window that we had converted the screen to "Mosquito No-see-um Netting" and turn on the Ollie Flying Pest Capture System (AKA, the MaxFan). After a few minutes, we give the flying bug collection trapped on the MaxFan screen a few spritz of 90% rubbing alcohol to dispatch them directly to Bug Valhalla. LOL!!!

I would first try placing a small piece of light translucent film/tape over the LED light sources that offend. If one does not darken it enough, add a second over it. Much easier than film/painting the cabinet doors.

Gary: Very creative solution. I think this combined with John D's mud/rock flap modifications would be a wise investment before our Alaska trip. Now for more than a few questions: Where did you find the closed cell foam? How thick is it, how much of it should we purchase? How many rolls of the special duct tap did you require? How long did it take you to protect your Ollie? About what did the materials cost for the effort? Thank you.

@John D: You are right about the Python Cable Locks. They are junk. Product Review: What do you think of carrying a length of logging chain and two security locks? Where added security is needed, park Ollie's tongue near a suitable tree, rock or table. Lock one of the chain to this site anchor, and run the chain to Ollie's frame.

Frank C: Don't forget two buckets for washing Ollie!

Interesting specifications. I would be concerned pulling an Ollie E2 with only 260 lf-ft and a 20 gallon tank. Hopefully the diesel version will remedy these low numbers.

What a great way to score some Father/Daughter time!

Frank: I have a SUV TV so my storage for "stuff" pretty much has to be in Ollie. As such, I took great care on what I carry and selecting storage containers for the hold that I can use for multiple purposes. Milk crates are less valueable on the road for most needs. Also, the 6 gallon ones are often too heavy to move when out of reach in the back storage hold. As such, I use only one "4 gallon" milk crate for the very heavy items in the hold. It is placed in the far back of the rear storage area. I also have one in the back of my TV. As suggested by Phil at OTT, the Fortiflex 20 QU FB-120 Bucket works perfectly in the Ollie hold. I highly recommend getting them at the Tractor Supply Company, 608 EAST MAIN ST, Hohenwald, TN 38462, 931-796-2528 Store #1346) after you pick up your Ollie. Be sure to get the Fortiflex buckets with the FLAT BACK. They are designed as a feed bucket that can be hung a wall. That flat section allows you to dense pack several of these buckets very efficiently in the hold. When I arrived at tractor supply, they very graciously allowed me to bring outside to Ollie some of their 20 qt and 8 quart Fortiflex buckets. I went with a mix for flexibility. I recommend getting buckets sized for different contents and sized to fit in the hold. For example I have a large blue one for my garden hoses, water filter and the collection of clean water related fittings you will end up with. I have a red large one for the Furion electrical cord, and a 27 foot 12 GA 20 amp extension cord coiled up. In this red bucket I also have all the electrical connectors you will end up with. I have two stacking 8 quart buckets for washing Ollie. Stacked they fit in the hold, and I use them for the cleaning supplies you will end up with. Granted the milk crate works great for my heavy stuff (Bearing supplies, spare brake pads, sockets, ratchet etc.), but the cords, hoses and cleaning/waxing supplies work best for me in the Fortiflex's. Hence I recommend more buckets and less milk crates. (Note: You will want two buckets for washing Ollie.) The pearl is to go to Tractor Supply with your stuff you want to store in the hold. Then play with their buckets to see what works for you best. Also suggested is getting a Home Depot/Lowes trash picking up wand before going to Tractor Supply. This tool has a gripper on one end and a long handle. The gripper works well to get the milk crate that I keep at the far end of the storage area. It also works OK on the bucket rims as well. It would be very handy to have while you are at Tractor Supply playing with your buckets. :-) I hope some of the above helps.

Gary: Really helpful info! Thank you. Which Mr Buddy Heater did you use? How did you get the propane to it? Where in the trailer did you park your Mr. Buddy for overnight use? I assume, maybe correctly, that you used the Oliver on-board furnace, and only used the Mr. Buddy when it failed. Is this correct? Thank you,

Amazon.com: Maxtrax MTX02FJRMAXTRAX MKII Vehicle Recovery and Extraction Device, $299 John D: Thanks for the Maxtrax suggestion. I had seen them in use in Africa, but had put it way deep in the memory bank. Will they fit sideways in the back of your LC? If not, where do you transport them? Thank you once again,

Kathryn and Chad: I agree with JD on the top off road/durable SUV if cost is not an issue is the LC 200. But the new Land Cruisers are really expensive. There are some available in the used market, but because they are so so strongly sought after by the off-road users, even the used LC's are very pricey. I looked at the LC as my first choice, as they really are designed to be durable and reliable for 20+ years. But the availability and cost is an issue. A good non truck TV fall back is the Toyota Sequoia. I use an ancient one (2005) as my TV. Unfortunately, (as advised before buying my Ollie Elite II by JD), the high speed rear end and the small 4.7L engine just would not cut the mustard in the mountains. He was spot on. If you look at the Sequoia's, be sure to get the 5.7L engine, 4WD with towing axles. The extra 100 lf-ft of torque of the 5.7 vs the 4.7L is a tremendous advantage over mine. Due to the age and mileage on my TV, I am looking at vehicles that are both durable, and powerful. I think that the F250 would be the best long haul TV, but finances may drive me to a used Sequoia that was set up as a tow vehicle. The Toyota forum is hinting that they will be bringing out a new updated Sequoia in the next year. That likely will reduce the cost of the used ones that will be put on the market as trade in's for new ones. Just something to consider. One key factor is how many passengers you need to carry. If it is just the two of you, then maybe a standard cab F250 may be a very reliable and safe selection, but not have the length issues you are concerned about. If an SUV is desired with its greater passenger room, then the Land Cruiser (Best)/Sequoia (Good) are options to at least look into. What ever way you go, it is very important that you get towing axles, not the high speed ones... especially if the primary purpose of the vehicle will be towing your Ollie Elite II. Geronimo John

Yvonne: I am glad that you had a good ending to the near catastrophe. It certainly could have gone a lot worse. You raise an important point, and that is TV heavy towing durability. A beloved vehicle, such as my 2005 Sequoia with only 228,000 miles on it is about as reliable as a vehicle can be. But, as advised by John D this past early Spring, its 4.7L V8 simply does not have the power, and I worry about its heavy towing durability in mountains and on fire roads that I travel each summer. Your selection of the F250 certainly has the durability for safe long term mountain travel with Ollie. A quick look at your drive shaft vs. the smaller half ton P/U trucks clearly demonstrates the point. As does the size of it's brakes, axles and a bunch of other critical parts that can get stressed to the max by temperature, grade and heavy tow loads; especially in the mountains. For many months I have been chasing MPG numbers and as a result really like the great MPG numbers that the Ram 1500 Eco Diesel or the F-150's can provide. And yes, the F250 carries a higher fuel and maintenance cost. But the cost delta between a F150 and a F-250 diesel is not all that great any more. But the cost potential of just one critical mechanical failure could be really high, especially in the mountains. The durability consideration in my eyes has two components. One is weight related and the other is capability related of the various truck components. On both the weight and component capacity, I think that the Nissan Titon XD has an advantage over all the 1/2 ton trucks. And of course the 3/4 ton trucks do over the half and 5/8 ton trucks. So it appears to boil down to what is really important? Cost of operation or intrinsic safety of the TV and Trailer? In the hundreds of posts about tow vehicles that I have read here and elsewhere, I do not recall the concept of heavy towing durability getting discussed much. Especially with regard to owners looking as to which TV to acquire. Maybe it should be. So, I thank you for causing that concept to click.... at least in my thick skull. Thank you.

Darrel: You mentioned your "Generator Ground Plug". My assumption is that your plug is to bond the neutral and ground at your generator. I suspect that some new owners may not be aware of this issue. I have cut and pasted an article from Fiberglass RV Forum that describes the problem and a simple fix. It is a good read for those not familiar with the electrical grounding requirements of code and how/why some generators give our Progressive Industries surge and monitoring system fits. Thanks for the reminder, Geronimo John FROM: FIBERGLASS RV FORUM – 7 DEC 2018 03:15 PM, Mr. Casita Greg, Senior Member This is a description of the N-G bond plug that I wrote some time back which I posted on some forums: Portable Inverter Generators and Neutral-Ground Jumper for RV Use Only While we're on the subject of portable generators, all RV electrical systems are wired with their Ground and Neutral buses floated, (un-bonded from each other.) There’s lots of good reasons for this, most specifically it’s an NEC and RVIA code requirement that the safety ground wire never carries any load current, and there can be only one Ground-To-Neutral bonding point in any distributed electrical system in the USA. Now, when you’re plugging your RV into power from a building, such as your garage outlet or a campground pedestal outlet, your RV has its Ground and Neutral buses “bonded” (connected) together externally as part of the service panel’s earthed safety ground system. Again, lots of reasons for this, but the fact is you can only have a single G-N bonding point according to the National Electrical Code and RVIA building codes. So when your RV is powered by a portable generator, and if you have an inline voltage monitor system from a manufacturer such as TRC or Progressive Industries, (like the EMS-30 that I installed in my trailer,) your voltage monitor is checking for the Neutral and Ground voltages to be very close to each other, probably within 3 volts or so. This works well if you’re plugged into shore power that’s properly grounded and bonded, but this voltage protector can be tripped off by plugging your RV shore power plug into a portable generator without an internal Ground-Neutral bond. If you don’t have a voltage protection device on your RV, then you may never know that your generator has a floated neutral (un-bonded G-N bus). Contractor-type generators, such as a Coleman 5000 for example, are generally G-N bonded internally, which is why it runs your RV just fine. However, many portable inverter generators from companies such as Yamaha and Honda (such as a Honda 2000i or EU3000 for example) have floated Neutrals (i.e. no internal Ground-Neutral Bond) since they expect an external G-N bond to happen somewhere else. And while RV-approved generators may have an internal G-N bond, it seems that many of the most popular portable inverter generators from Honda and Yamaha have floating neutrals. So your 2000i or your EU3000 isn’t providing the Ground-Neutral Bond that your RV requires to think it’s getting properly grounded power, while a Coleman 5000 has a Ground-Neutral bond already so it operates your RV properly. Seems crazy, but that appears to be the scenario. It’s pretty simple to wire a special “Ground-Neutral Bond” jumper cable for your Honda or Yamaha generator which will allow you to power your RV through its voltage protection device. You can obtain or make a dummy 15 or 20 amp “Edison” plug with the Neutral (white) and Ground (green) screws jumpered together with a piece of 12 or 14 gauge wire. This G-N jumper plug can be plugged into one of the generator’s unused 20-amp outlets, and the entire generator’s electrical system will be N-G bonded. You can then use the other 20-amp Edison outlet or the 30-amp outlet to power the RV. Just be sure to mark this plug specifically for its intended purpose. It won’t really hurt anything if it’s plugged into a correctly wired home outlet, but it will create a secondary G-N bonding point that could induce ground loop currents and create hum or buzz in a sound system. So this is a generator-only G-N bonding plug which should be only plugged into a portable generator while powering your RV. What's going on inside the plug? Jumper wire between the silver screw terminal and the ground screw terminal. Be careful not to hook to the gold terminal screw. (Which is the "hot" prong and can be easily determined by looking at the two power prongs. The "hot" prong (usually the black wire,) will be the smaller of the two blades on the plug and is the power supply. Do not connect to this one.

John D: About 98% of the time I am in lockstep with you. However, I don't agree with your 2015 recommendation not to purchase the front storage box if using the Anderson. Like you, I pull with a SUV and don't want fuel for the generator inside either Oliver or my TV. For this, and carrying dunage and other items that seem to attract mud, the box is very useful. I do agree with you on the two other major points. A. First that front box owners should not put a ton of weight in it. I typically carry about 60 pounds there. I would not be concerned with up to say a hundred or so pounds or so. B. Secondly backing off the Anderson tension nuts before traversing really radical terrain is a sound and prudent idea. On this second point, I wonder if any Ollie owner has ever destroyed/damaged their trailer or Anderson by high angle of approach/departure? If so, any idea which component of the system proved to be the "Weak Link"? I going to guess the mounting hardware on the tongue under the propane tanks would fail first. Your thoughts? Geronimo John

They sell milk crates at the big box hardware stores. No need to purloin them. :-)

I have two replacement knees and totally agree with your suggestion about knee padding. I carry a standard inexpensive boat throw cushion. Walmart for about $8, the kind that are square, orange,and about 3" thick. It makes reaching those water valves a lot nicer. But mostly it makes changing a spare tire possible. I keep one in my TV and one in the shop. They are also handy to sit on when riding in the boat!

The above thread raises several "red flags" for me that as a Professional Engineer I am required to respond. Although I believe that several of our OTT owners are quite qualified to mitigate my below concerns. That said, I also believe that the majority of OTT owners, myself included, likely are not. As such, I am taking the time to highlight to this second group some concerns with the modification made to the OTT electrical systems as discussed in the above threads. Upon delivery, I asked OTT if I could run the A/C by battery power alone. The OTT answer was NO. If I am recalling correctly, the reason given was that the inverter and electrical systems were not designed to provide the continuous power necessary to run the A/C as well as other parasitic and elective loads of the trailer at the same time while on battery power alone. In the case of our trailers, the A/C pulls 1731 watts (Oliver University documentation), add to that normal other loads of an occupied trailer, and the power inverter will be operating near or above its continuous max load of 2,000 watts. Should an owner then power up the microwave, water heater (on electric mode) or other electrical loads, several system components will certainly be operating in an overload condition. Systems running at or above their designed continuous capacity are prone to fail young with the added concern of possible fire or other unforeseen electrical damages. Yes I do believe it is possible to run our A/C off the trailer batteries alone. But it certainly comes with risks that neither I or the average OTT owner should sign up for. Granted if solar power is added to the equation, the power available (Battery Power + Solar Power) improves the ability to run the A/C and other loads without generator or shore power. However you are still facing the brick wall of the capacity of the individual components to do so safely. To do so safely and to meet UL requirements, a full re-look, if not redesign of the OTT power systems would be required. For those Owners that are compelled to modify their OTT to run the A/C from batteries (with or without solar), I humbly recommend five safety mitigation efforts: A. That you instrument your Xantrex Inverter, batteries, and cables to monitor and alarm for temperature and current overloads. B. As I suspect that your inverter life will be substantially reduced, you may want to consider having a spare inverter in your spare parts box. C. That you install master battery kill switch(s) accessible outside at the battery compartment to shut down the flow of power from your batteries and solar systems in the event of fire. This would allow the fire department an ability to more safely fight an electrical fire in your trailer. D. That you and your family actually practice exiting out the emergency window. E. The modifications described in the above threads appear to be accomplished without UL approval or testing. Nor does it appear that they have been designed and documented by a licensed Electrical Engineer. As such, you may want to know if your insurance will cover the loss of your trailer should an electrical fire consume it. I fully support an owner's right to execute modifications to his/her trailer. Especially when done by competent individuals, as many of our OTT owners are. That said, it is my opinion that this modification needs to be cautiously approached by the majority of us. Thank you.

Please don't take offense for these two thoughts concerning propane tanks and the Auto Switch Over Valve (ASOV) at the tanks. A. For the ASOV to work automatically, both valves on top of the tanks have to be open, and the ASOV must be pointing to one of the tanks. This combination will keep the supply of propane "ON" to your system all the way up to both tanks being near empty. B. All propane modern tanks have a max propane flow safety device. If a surge flow of propane occurs that exceeds the manufactured set point, the valve will shut to very nearly off. Such super low flow will not allow your gas appliances to work. The fix I use is to turn off all propane devices connected to the propane system, unconnect the propane supply lines at the top of your tanks. Briefly vent the tank valve and close it. Re-connect a tank or two, to the system, and then very slowly crack a tank supply valve. Wait a moment or two. Then turn on one stove burner to low and bleed propane to the stove. Once the stove is lit and stable, further open the propane tank valve to allow more flow of fuel to the system. This process will reset the safety valve and will bring the pressure up in the supply lines more slowly so as not to not evoke the run-away propane flow feature of the tanks. Oh yea, then fire off the gas water heater and stove. This process, although has more steps than some may feel necessary, but it gives me a visual indication of the gas flow at the stove with both low and high flames (some indication that the pressure regulator is working properly at sequentially higher flows), and reduces the probability of another undesired safety valve shut down by too many appliances all trying to get propane startup flow at the same time. Good luck.

25 feet is essential. I have not needed more. I have certainly needed more than ten lots of times.

I agree with Bill and John D about safety of the trailer when arriving at a new site. Especially if it has some slope to it. I keep my jack blocks in a milk crate in the front tongue basket. The Harbor Freight HEAVY chocks are right beside them. They are a prominent reminder to use them first as suggested above. Another safety measure concerns when to unhook the safety chains/cables. I first park, chock, raise the tongue to unhitch, and then move the TV forward a few inches. Just enough that there is some daylight between the Bulldog and Anderson. I specifically do not unhook the chains until AFTER I have rechecked the chocks, placed all the jack blocks and leveled the trailer. At that point I am sure that Ollie is not going anywhere without me. I then unhook the chains and move the TV a few feet further away to allow easy passage all the way around the trailer. If one is a bit forgetful, a sign on the dash such as "Chains?" would be prudent.

Paul: Welcome to our Forum! For me, space, functionality, cost, and durability are considerations. To do this, I recommend the following: Get a milk crate to store all my leveling blocks. (Space) Cut two pieces of scrap plywood (Recommend 3/4" thick) that will easily fit into the milk crate. I use this only in really muddy sites where the below will sink into the mud. For soft mud sites, place the plywood under the low side rear jack and the tongue. 2" X 6" scrap cut offs that easily fit flat into the milk crate side by side. Fill the crate to the top with the 2X6's and bungee the milk crate to the aluminum tongue tow box with my 2.5 gallon gas can for the Honda EU2200i. Lessons Learned: A. When I started my Milk Crate approach, I had a couple of 2" X 12", and tried 2" X 10" cut-offs. I used them under the tongue jack and really liked them. But I quickly learned that the tongue weight in soft mud would break them long wise. Hence the plywood. For muddy locations, I placed the plywood on the ground, and then place two 2X6's side by side, then I stack as needed single 2X6's at 90 degrees to the base layer. This plan has resulted in a more even load on the front plywood base and they have not failed. B. My "Easily Fit" definition changed after the Milk Crate cube of wood got very wet and expanded to the point that I had trouble getting the wood out of the crate. My second try allowed for 1/2" clearance for the boards and plywood. C. As mentioned by others, I also support using all my dunage to reduce jacking time, energy use and wear. But a more important reason is prevention of jack damage. You would not believe the number of owners that have forgot to raise a jack before driving off and destroying the jack. Having dunage under all three jacks gives you a chance of not having to replace the extended bent jack. Finally be sure to have an arrival and departure check list. PM me if you would like a copy of the one that I have put together that includes the majority of the elements others have identified, and some of my own a well. Good luck! Geronimo John

As indicated above, depends on what you set the T-Stat to and the ambient. In general, our fully charged stock batteries will power up the furnace all night on a charge. We camp high and have had several nights with freezing temp's and have not had a problem with the batteries topped off via generator before going to bed. I also support having a supplemental heat source. Even if it is only your Honda and a 1500 watt electric heater. Without kids or pets in the trailer, we like to put the heater in front of the bath room entry facing the emergency escape window. Out of the way and a plug is handy there also. Have fun! Geronimo John