Rivernerd

I expect whoever holds the loan will specify the conditions under which you may sell, and how the sale must be handled. They may insist on loan payoff, or they may be willing to allow the buyer to assume the loan. They may also require that any sale be handled through an escrow agent, to ensure that the proceeds are used to pay off the loan balance, plus fees, if any. I recommend you contact that entity to find out what they require.

John Davies suggested I apply my experience as an attorney retained by insurance companies to the issues raised by this old thread. As I feel indebted to him for his dozens of incredibly useful posts on this Forum, here are my thoughts. Per the quote above, Oliver asserts it cannot purchase insurance protecting Oliver owners who show their trailers. But, Oliver surely can choose to use its corporate resources to defend and indemnify those owners against personal injury claims arising out of a showing, including retaining counsel to defend any such suit. It would be an uninsured sales overhead expense. I'll bet Oliver has agreed to fully defend and indemnify its senior corporate officers (using company funds) against personal liability when they are acting within the scope of their employment. This is common language in executive employment agreements. Oliver could do the same for owners who agree to show their trailers. But has Oliver done this? Not that I can find. Given the substantial financial benefit Oliver enjoys from the "See an Oliver in Your Area" program, I believe Oliver should offer that defense and indemnity. Also, my quick review of this thread revealed no hold harmless agreement published by Oliver, despite the suggestion in JWalmsley's above-quoted post three years ago. Did I miss it? And, upon review today of the Terms and Conditions on the "See an Oliver In Your Area" page on the OTT website, I could not find such language. If I have missed it, or missed language published by Oliver agreeing to defend and indemnify owners who show their trailers, please let me know by reply to this thread. So, where does that leave Oliver owners participating in the "See an Oliver in Your Area" program? Unprotected. There are lots of interesting legal issues raised when an injury occurs while showing someone your Oliver. Although these may fascinate the lawyers engaged to resolve a personal injury claim, no legal doctrine offers any real protection to the trailer owner. This is because attorneys' fees are often the biggest expense associated with resolving the dispute, and in this country, even if you win, you get to pay your lawyer--which means a huge financial loss for you, period. That is why contract language usually refers to both "defend" and "indemnify." "Defend" means pay a lawyer to defend the claim. "Indemnify" means pay any judgment rendered against you arising from the dispute. So, regardless of: (1) whether you are deemed to be affiliated with Oliver in some way, or (2) where or under what circumstances you show your Oliver,or (3) whether you require the prospective buyer to sign a heavy-handed liability release before setting foot in your trailer, there is presently only one "safe harbor" for anyone showing an Oliver to a prospective buyer: umbrella insurance coverage. Why? Because it pays for your defense, as well as providing indemnity. As noted in March, 2019 by Geronimo John, umbrella coverage is relatively inexpensive because it is secondary to your primary insurance policies. Such a policy is designed to transcend, and provide coverage beyond, any limitations of your homeowners' insurance or your auto/RV insurance. So, should you show your Oliver to potential buyers, even though Oliver has not agreed to defend and indemnify you against claims arising from the showing? I cannot recommend it. Maybe if enough owners decline to participate, Oliver will decide to "do the right thing" and provide defense and indemnification. Until then: do you feel lucky?

I am a retired attorney. Among other things during 35 years of practice, I defended many auto accident cases where my firm was retained by insurance companies. Insurance companies look for any viable reason to avoid paying claims. This includes failure by their insured (you) to follow safe practices, particularly manufacturers' recommendations. The owners manual for my 2019 Tundra, with the 5.7L V8 and the towing package, requires the use of a weight distributing hitch if towing more than 5000 lbs. I will be amazed if the owners manual for a current model Ford Ranger doesn't include a similar requirement. I hope you are never involved in an accident towing your Oliver with a Ranger. But it if happens, even as the result of another driver's negligence, you will be substantially exposed if you don't have a WD hitch. In that event, $800 spent on an Andersen WD hitch could save you $500K to $1M in uninsured, personal liability when your insurer declines to pay a claim because you failed to follow the requirement in your owner's manual. I will be using an Andersen WD hitch when towing my Elite II with my Tundra.

We are big fans of C-Gear mats. We plan to buy one for use with our Elite II. They are commonly used on river trips when camping on sandy beaches. The sand really does flow right through them, keeping the surface "clean" for walking.

Frank-N-Val: Thanks for your report. Now the question of interest to this retired attorney with an Elite II on order: since Oliver apparently sent you the parts but not the Plexus epoxy with which to reattach them, did Oliver's service department reimburse you for the cost of the Plexus? Or, did Oliver offer to pay for repair, including labor, at an RV service center near you, so you were not "out of pocket" for the repairs? Glued parts falling off during your "maiden voyage home from pickup" are surely covered under Oliver's "5 Star Warranty," which includes a "one-year limited warranty on all components against defects in materials or workmanship." Did Oliver "limit" the warranty to the lost parts they sent you, but decline to pay for the epoxy necessary to reattach them?

I am with John Davies on this one. Yes, travel trailers are subjected to lots of stress, bumps and jolts on the road. But if properly done at the factory, glued joints should not fail, particularly on a relatively new unit. This is not a bargain-brand trailer. Oliver sells a "Legacy" premium trailer for a premium price. Consider this statement on the Oliver website: "Our design and specifications provide superior insulation, durability, strength, and ease of maintenance. Our camping trailers are built to last a lifetime and then some. That is why we call it the LEGACY ELITE. The Oliver is built using only the highest quality materials, making it one of the longest lasting RVs on the market and can be passed down to the next generation." I, for one, am pleased that Oliver is being made aware that glued parts are falling off of relatively new units. I hope they address the underlying QC issue before mine is built for September delivery.

Kirk: Based on a recommendation from IL-Travelers on this forum, I have already installed a Rockstar full-width mud flap on our Tundra tow vehicle. IL-Travelers reports being very happy with the way it protects their Oliver. And, judging from the amount of dirt already collected on the front side of the Rockstar, it should protect the Oliver from most road debris after we take delivery in September. If you go with the Rockstar, I recommend the 2-piece "Adjustable" version over the Standard 1-piece. The adjustment is in how far the flap hangs down when you install it. You set that distance depending on where you secure piece #1 to piece #2 during assembly. For any off-pavement driving, I expect it would be better to have the flap hang down further than the non-adjustable, standard version.

Jim and Chris Neuman raise a good point: choice of mattress matters with the Standard Floor Plan. My wife likes a soft bed and I like a really firm one. We use a Sleep Number Bed at home, with her side at 35 and mine at 100! When tent camping, we take an inflatable mattress for her and just a Thermarest for me. So, our initial plan with the Elite II is to use an inflatable air mattress for her side, and just the seat cushions on my side. When we need to access the valves or breakers under the rear seating platforms, or get to the overhead cabinets, we plan to flip the air mattress up against the wall.

You could choose the Twin Bed version, but then later convert it to a king with Foy Sperring's folding insert that provides full center support. See this thread: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/6355-twin-beds-to-a-king/ With that $345 option, you have to figure out where to store the additional components when not set up as a king. With the Standard Floor Plan, the middle insert that goes between the two rear benches comes conveniently velcroed to one of the closet walls. That is another reason we chose to just go with the Standard Floor Plan from the beginning. Hope this helps with your decision.

We take delivery on our Elite II in September. The Elite II we toured had the Twin Bed option. I am 6'0". The twin bed I laid down on was long enough for me, but not wide enough to support both my shoulders. That is because a standard twin bed is 38" wide, while the Oliver twin bed is only 30". I concluded I need that extra 8" to be comfortable. So, we ordered the Standard Floor Plan. Also, absent twin beds that are the full 38" wide, my wife and I prefer a king-sized bed to a double or even a queen. One reason we ordered an Elite II instead of an Elite is that, with the Standard Floor Plan, the Elite II bed is king-sized. We plan to leave that king-sized bed made up and just use the dinette area for meals, etc. I strongly recommend that, if you haven't already, you arrange through your sales rep to tour an Elite II with the Twin Bed configuration. After lying on that twin for a few minutes, then decide for yourself if you will be comfortable sleeping on a 75" x 30" twin long term.

Out of curiosity I Googled whether a separate regulator is needed for a Champion dual fuel generator connected to an RV propane outlet. I found this web page: https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f7/tips-for-running-dual-fuel-generator-on-propane-62240.html As I read this, you will need a different set of hoses to run the generator from a quick-connect outlet. For me, this has confirmed the decision to run my Champion generator from a separate propane tank. I will only have to haul one hose set. Hope this helps.

The grease caps with the rubber center inserts are for EZ-Lube axles. They enable you to access the zerk on the end of the axle without removing the steel cap, just the rubber insert. They came on the new EZ-Lube axles I installed on my raft trailer more than 10 years ago. Since that time, driving on many rough dirt roads to access river put-ins, the rubber inserts have never come out, so my hubs have not gotten contaminated. But, as pointed out by Topgun 2, the rubber can dry out and crack over time (in the arid West). For that reason, I keep a spare set of those grease caps with rubber inserts in a storage tub in my boat shed. I have replaced them only once in over 10 years. At $8 a pair, it is well worth the convenience of being able to easily access the zerks for periodic greasing. On a side note, I am looking forward to seeing how the Dexter Nev-R-Lube axles hold up on the new Elite II we pick up in September. Never having to clean and regrease the bearings is appealing.

You have now exceeded my limited knowledge of propane regulators. FWIW, it is my impression that all regulators used for RVs and small, residential propane appliances are diaphram-type regulators. I could be wrong. Whether a second diaphragm regulator is needed or even wise, to avoid propane release if the inverter/generator quits running while the main propane valve is still open, sounds like a question for Champion's tech support folks. I can only offer an anecdote. When testing my new Champion 2500 watt dual fuel inverter/generator on propane from a full 5-gallon tank, for a couple of hours total on two separate occasions, it did shut down twice. The first time I was close by and noted the shut down quickly. The second time I was on a bike ride, letting the generator run for 30-45 minutes to see how much fuel it consumed under load over time, and I found it had shut down while I was away, so I don't know how long it had been off. I wondered on each occasion if there was a brief fuel delivery issue that caused those shutdowns, which could have been caused by the propane tank valve, or the Champion regulator, not the generator itself. Both times, I closed the propane tank valve, then slowly reopened it again, and it started again on the first pull. So, I kept the generator, figuring I could live with an occasional unplanned (and unexplained) shut down when running on propane, since it restarted easily. But, significantly, on neither occasion did I smell mercaptan (the odorant added to propane and natural gas to enable olfactory detection). Wherever you find a credible answer to your question, please post it here.

I have a Champion 2500 watt dual fuel inverter/generator. It came with a 1/4" RV quick connect fitting for the generator end, and an ACME female fitting with a regulator, for connection to a bulk propane tank. To use it with an Oliver quick connect, you will need a different hose which has only the second regulator of a two-stage regulator. See Galway Girl's post dated March 27, 2023. This is because the Oliver propane tank outlets are already regulated down to about 11 inches of water column (an appropriate LP gas pressure) by the regulator on the tanks. I believe you will need a propane hose with only the second stage regulator, and 1/4" RV quick connect male fittings on both ends, since the Oliver quick connects are 1/4" female and the Champion generator connection is also 1/4" female. Again, see Galway Girl's more accurate, and precise, post dated March 27, 2023. FWIW, I considered getting the quick connects on our Elite II and doing what you plan to do, i.e., run the generator from the trailer's propane tanks. But, I finally decided to carry an extra 5-gallon propane tank in the bed of my pickup to run the generator, to preserve the fuel in the trailer's propane tanks for heating, cooking and water heating. An added benefit is that I can place the generator farther from the trailer without a long propane hose. So, I plan to use the hose with regulator that came with my Champion dual fuel inverter/generator. Hope this helps.

We don't yet own our Ollie (scheduled delivery in September), but I have loaded and towed raft trailers for 40 years. I agree with NcEagle 100%. About 60% of trailer weight should be forward of the axle(s) for safest towing, and best on-road handling. I would never consider loading heavy stuff in the rear of a trailer to reduce tongue weight. If you can't "make tongue weight" when loading your trailer a bit front heavy, either leave some stuff home or get a bigger tow vehicle. Life and health, including not just yours but that of those on the road around you, are too precious to risk loading any trailer tail heavy. My 2 cents.

Hmmmmm. Our rep, Anita, reports they are working on a potential Truma AC upgrade, but cannot commit that they will install it in our build for a September 6 delivery. Kim, please promptly post what Josh says about the cost of the Truma AC upgrade.

I concur with Topgun2's comments above. I am a retired lawyer. I signed the same contract when we placed our deposit last October. Yes, the agreement was written by Oliver's counsel to give Oliver "all the marbles." That is standard practice for manufacturers. We consumers have no leverage to get more favorable contract language. So why did I choose to sign the contract and pay my deposit, despite the one-sided language? Oliver's history of mostly on-time production, their demonstrated commitment to customer service and the fact that Oliver trailers retain their resale value remarkably well. This means that my remedy is in the marketplace, not the courts. In the highly unlikely event that I am disappointed, I can sell the trailer for likely close to what I paid for it and move on.

As one who takes delivery of an Elite II in September, I add my voice to the chorus quoted above. I have been driving a full-sized SUV or pickup towing my raft trailer for decades. Backing a trailer took me a long time to "get." And, backing looking over your shoulder is very different than backing using side mirrors. There are blind spots in most tow vehicles that make it impossible to see your trailer at certain angles. A rear view camera mounted on the back of your trailer is extremely useful for backing, but that, too, is a somewhat different skill set that takes time to develop. I recommend you review, several times, Oliver's excellent video showing how to hook up a tow vehicle. As shown in the video, be sure to cross the safety chains. This creates a "cradle" for the trailer tongue to drop onto (instead of the road) should the coupler come loose from the hitch ball. How do I know? Well.......... Towing an Oliver presents new issues even for me, as I have never owned a trailer with its own brakes. Those brakes should be burnished right after delivery, and before you have to make an emergency stop. And, your tow vehicle must have an installed trailer brake controller with 7-pin connector to communicate with the electric brakes on the Oliver. The "gain" on the trailer brake controller should be adjusted once you take delivery on your Ollie, and before you hit the road. This is not a comprehensive list of things you must learn and skills you must develop to safely tow an Oliver trailer. Which is why I concur that it is wise to work up the "trailering" learning curve long before you pick up a tow vehicle "somewhere near Tennessee" on your way to take delivery of your Ollie.

Short answer: Even 390 Ah of LiFePO4 battery capacity, recharged with 340 watts of solar power, should be far more than adequate for two CPAP machines, even with humidifiers, IF you don't burn up your battery capacity with other use, like running the air conditioner or the microwave for extended periods. But, I recommend you consider investing in 12-volt CPAP machines, to limit inversion power loss. We take delivery on our Elite II in September. We plan to purchase the Lithium Pro Package. But, I have been using a 12-volt CPAP on extended wilderness river trips for the past 20 years. I, too, am dependent on it for a decent night's sleep. 20 years ago I installed an 11-watt solar panel on top of a Pelican 1600 (waterproof) case and connected it to a small PWM charge controller and, in turn, a 34Ah AGM battery inside the case. Carried on my raft, the solar panel provides some recharge during the day. I have used 3 different travel CPAP machines over those 20 years. They draw from .9 amps to 1.1 amps per hour of use. With an average of 8 hours' use, my 3 machines have drawn down between 7.2 and 8.8 Ah per night. I monitor the voltage level daily with a voltmeter. Although the 11-watt panel has never been sufficient to restore all of the power drawn on any night during the following day, even if fully sunny, it extends the available battery life with a 34Ah battery from about 3 to 5 nights. On 21-day Grand Canyon trips, I used a second 34 Ah AGM battery connected to a second, 20-watt solar panel, so I could get 2 days' charge for every night of use. With a total of 68 Ah of battery capacity recharged by 31 watts of solar panel space daily, I never ran out of battery capacity. 2 years ago, I switched to (4) 10Ah Dakota Lithium LiFePO4 batteries, which are less than 1/2 the weight of a 34Ah AGM. On river trips, that means I am lugging much less weight from my boat to my tent each night. That 40Ah of capacity, with some daily recharge via the 11W solar panel, has provided sufficient power for my CPAP (with no humidifier) on 5-night extended river trips. Given that 68Ah of AGM battery, recharged by 31 watts of solar panel capacity on my Grand Canyon trips, was sufficient to keep my CPAP machine powered for 21 days (and likely longer), I am satisfied that the 390 Ah of LiFePO4 battery capacity included with Oliver's Lithium Pro Package, when recharged daily with 340 watts of solar panel capacity, will provide many times the amps needed to run my CPAP machine over night. I believe the Lithium Pro Package will also enable significant other power use, even with extended boondocking. MarkC, with 630Ah in the Lithium Platinum Package, I expect you could even operate 2 machines, with humidifiers, on 120VAC through the inverter and still be fine. But, it makes sense to me to check out 12-volt CPAP machines, if you don't already have them, so you can plug directly into the built-in 12-volt outlets.

Our Elite II is also scheduled to be delivered in September. We don't plan to pay for the Truma water heater upgrade for the reasons listed by other posters above, and also because Truma is not "DIY friendly." Truma only makes parts and replacement units available through its 4 U.S. authorized service centers, in Arizona, Texas, Florida and Indiana. Suburban water heater parts, or even complete replacement units for under $400, are readily available for online order. https://www.amazon.com/Suburban-Manufacturing-5238A-Sw6D-Gal/dp/B01NBTVDBC/ref=asc_df_B01NBTVDBC/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312111914138&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1905742530739926085&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029558&hvtargid=pla-568368079416&psc=1 We live in rural Idaho. It will be SO much cheaper and easier for me to order parts online to repair and, if necessary, replace a Suburban water heater in my garage.

I wouldn't use it to install lug nuts, even in an emergency. It would be so easy to over torque and break off the stud, because the mechanical advantage makes it impossible to gauge torque by "feel." Although most tire shops I have patronized use impact wrenches to install lug nuts, I don't use those either, ever since I broke off a stud on one of my trucks with one. I now torque to spec by hand with a torque wrench. Worth the extra time, IMHO. One reason to carry the lug nut remover: to enable you to remove a tire after a less-than-careful tire tech over torqued your lug nuts to the point you can't get them off without it!

That is the reason we are not ordering a front storage basket on our Elite II. I have been required to jack knife my raft trailer many times when backing into tight spaces. I welded a 3' straight steel extension onto the front of that A-frame trailer many years ago after denting a bumper during a jack knife maneuver. Problem solved. So, I want as much leeway between the Oliver trailer frame and the TV bumper as possible. If I could get one of the extendable tongues that was available on very early Olivers, I would get that upgrade for the same reason: maximum clearance if you must jack knife the trailer when backing.

If ABS was not available at Ferguson Supply, you must be in the East somewhere. I cannot explain the reasons, but it is my observation that PVC is used for drain/waste/vent plumbing in the East, while ABS is universally used for drain/waste/vent plumbing in the West. I prefer ABS, not only because I am in the Western US, but because no primer is required. I have heard that some plumbing inspectors will fail a PVC installation if purple primer is not visible at each joint.

I add my vote to the "nice job on the mod!" chorus. For those thinking of this mod for their Ollies, I will note that mixing PVC and ABS pipe is not allowed by most plumbing codes. You are generally allowed only one PVC/ABS connection when retrofitting plumbing, and for that joint, you should use "green" glue, which is designed to weld PVC to ABS, not regular PVC or ABS glue. Since it is doubtful that such mods will be seen by a plumbing inspector, and since none of the above PVC and ABS piping in under pressure, I expect there will be no issues. But for any future mods, I would recommend matching whichever pipe Oliver used for the original, even if it has to be ordered online, and using the glue appropriate for that type of pipe.

We never buy extended warranties on anything. They are "hard sold" precisely because they are high-profit items for the seller, and therefore low-return for the buyer. And, the hassle of actually obtaining a replacement under an extended warranty at least doubles the time required to replace the covered item. If the extended warranty were offered and administered by Oliver, it would be a bit more attractive, because of Oliver's outstanding Customer Service department. But, the extended warranty is sold by American Guardian Warranty Services. We are not interested.