Chukarhunter

I researched this extensively when I bought my LE II back in 2020 and confidently claimed a 30% tax credit for the cost of my solar system option (including inverter) from Oliver plus the $2800 I spent on four LiPO4 batteries (Oliver did not offer a lithium option at the time). The total tax credit was just over $1,800. As I remember, you could not claim a tax credit for lithium batteries by themselves. The batteries had to be purchased and installed at the same time as the solar system and inverter to claim a tax credit on the batteries. The rules may have changed since then.

We have the standard floor plan so no nightstand. We use one of these and plug it into the cigarette lighter port above the stove. It has a Type C 30 watt fast charging port, two USB ports, plus you don't lose your cigarette lighter port so in theory you can charge 4 items at the same time. It has a continuous readout of battery voltage as well. I typically charge my dog tracking collar, phone (fast charge) and Garmin InReach through it at the same time. It has worked just fine so far.

I am a fellow cold weather camper and considered doing that as well but decided that doing so would result in insufficient total free air flow from the furnace likely leading to furnace heat exchanger overheating and short-cycling of the furnace. To work properly, the manual says the furnace needs a minimum of 25 sq. inches of unobstructed supply duct airflow. A 4 inch flex duct has 12.56 sq. inches of airflow as it leaves the furnace. Since there are only two supply ducts from the furnace, both must be completely unobstructed to achieve 25 sq. inches of unobstructed airflow. All duct work creates friction and turbulence which reduces the free flow of air. Rigid duct minimizes restriction of airflow but the flimsy flex duct used in the Oliver really reduces airflow in anything but short absolutely straight runs. Dedicating one 4 inch duct to a long run to to the bathroom would cause such a restriction that the furnace would be subject to short cycling and poor heating performance. I am sure that is why Oliver put the splitter into the long duct run to the bathroom so it feeds two registers, one being closer to the furnace. To further complicate things, in my LE II, Oliver put a reducer behind the bathroom register that necks it down from a 4 inch duct to a 3 inch duct further restricting airflow into the bathroom. They may have done this to make it feel like there was more air blowing into the bathroom (higher velocity but lower volume). I don't thing changing this from a 3 inch to a 4 inch would make much difference though, given the long duct run to the bathroom. I really wanted to turn my bathroom run into a straight, untapped duct run to the bathroom (i.e., eliminate the splitter) but determined it would not be acceptable without adding a third duct run off of the furnace, but that is next to impossible to do in my LE II, given the way Oliver installed the furnace in a vertical orientation. The furnace can be installed vertically or on its side. If Oliver had installed the furnace on its side, it would have been easy to run a third duct off of the furnace. It is not feasible to make that change now. I think probably the best that can be done now is to add a return air vent to the bathroom and add ventilation between the bathroom and main cabin as you are planning. I am getting ready to add a return vent to the bathroom in my LE II. I will probably put it in the recessed front of the vanity behind the towel bar, so that return air will directly warm the plumbing under the bathroom sink.

I swapped my supply flex ducts around at the furnace exactly as you did. I also improved on the 180 degree "crushed" flex duct turn at the same time. I could not find any adjustable hard elbows that would work as John suggests so I used a hard flexible dryer duct that is very short from the package, almost like rigid duct, but is expandable and bendable. I used all of it without expanding it beginning with a large 15 inch diameter 180 degree turn at the furnace then ran it as far forward as it would go without expanding it. It almost reached the diverter and then like you, I shortened the existing flex duct and clamped it and taped it to the new aluminum duct. As you discovered, switching the duct runs around at the furnace increases the air flow to the bathroom but adding the lazy aluminum duct for the hard turn made for a noticeable additive increase in air flow forward as well.

I too usually crack the Maxxair unit slightly and open the rear streetside window slightly to reduce condensation in cold weather. A warning though; I learned the hard way that you should never open the curbside window when using the furnace because the furnace combustion exhaust is located immediately below the window. I cracked the curbside window above my head once while sleeping on a cold windless night and woke up about 2:00 am with a strong smell of furnace exhaust in the trailer. I won't make that mistake again. I also don't crack the streetside dinette window when it is cold due to the fact it has the potential to confuse the thermostat, hence I open the rear streetside window.

It sounds like you may have been running off of only one propane tank at a time since you said one was depleted and the other was full. When it is very cold outside it is best to draw propane from both of your propane tanks at the same time. It is the expanding propane gas that draws heat out of the propane tank causing it to become much colder than the outside air temperature. By splitting the total propane drawn between two tanks instead of one, each tank loses heat at half the rate of a single tank and this will make a big difference in how cold the tanks will get . I believe that pointing the lever on the propane tank regulating valve straight up will cause the valve to pass propane from both tanks at the same time (make sure both tanks are turned on). If the valve is pointing to the tank on the right, it will only draw propane from the right tank even if both tanks are turned on. Same for pointing the lever to the left tank. Point it straight up which is halfway between each tank and it should draw from both tanks simultaneously. Someone correct me if I have this wrong. It is possible that drawing propane from both tanks will reduce the heat loss from the propane tanks sufficiently to negate the need for a heated tank blanket when running the furnace in very cold weather, at least at temperatures above O degrees F.

I have found that it is not difficult to loosen the nuts to put slack in the chains when needed. I have done so without even using a ratchet handle on the socket to adjust the nuts. OTT supplies a large socket and I am usually able to tighten or loosen the nuts with with only my hand around the socket. Just use the front tongue jack to raise the trailer tongue while still attached to the tow vehicle until the chains start to slacken. Then loosen the nuts and lower the tongue back down and the chains should now remain slack. Be sure to count the threads showing before loosening the nuts which makes it easy to tighten them back to where they need to be when the time comes. Reverse the process to tighten them again. Jack up the tongue again (while still hooked to the ball) and tighten the nuts until the proper number of threads are showing. Then reverse the tongue jack to lower the tongue back down and you are good to go. I have found it only takes a few minutes to loosen or tighten both nuts if you raise the tongue to take pressure off the chains. OTT demonstrated this technique when I picked up our LE II. Raising the tongue while still attached to the tow vehicle also allows you to routinely hitch and unhitch the trailer (i.e., attach/detach the whale tail) without ever having to adjust the nuts. If the road is so terribly rough that loosening the chains will not provide for sufficient articulation, you are probably pushing the ability of the bulldog hitch to articulate sufficiently, even with the Anderson disconnected.

Welcome home to Oregon!

Looks like UW colors on the Oliver. Shouldn't have to worry about anyone stealing it!🙂

I have not resolved the issue permanently but I have made enough adjustments that I am not too concerned about temperatures down to about 15 degrees. My LE II is hull 657 and when I am running the furnace I open the round access hatch under the pantry ((for inverter access) and that makes a huge difference. I am not sure your LE II has an access hatch under the pantry like mine. I also modified the hot air supply vent under the sink/microwave by removing the movable baffle that formerly constricted airflow out of the vent. This allows much more warm air to be blown forward in the cabin and mix with other cabin air before returning to the furnace through the vent under the bed. It takes 15 seconds to remove the movable damper in the vent. It made a huge difference. I think OTT put the movable damper in to try to force more air to the bathroom but it doesn't really help in that respect and instead reduces the total supply vents in square inches to less than required by the furnace manufacturer. A recipe for short cycling. You can also open a drawer or two by an inch which will allow air to flow through the back of the drawer cabinet and down into the basement when it drops below freezing (there is a large cutout behind the drawers to allow access to the sink plumbing). Again, your LE II may be different than mine. The only permanent fix is to add return vents forward in the cabin and in the bathroom, and reduce the size of the return vent under the bed. You should read the thread below that is currently active on the forum. It has a lot of information relevant to your issue with good input and advice from many contributors to this forum. Just click on the pic below. Good luck. You have an outstanding trailer. I just wish OTT would acknowledge the issue and develop a recommended fix for customers based on input from a professional HVAC engineer. Most of us are not comfortable winging it and cutting holes in our Oliver without guidance from the factory.

I would advise against using closed cell foam to plug the vents underneath the trailer. The foam is semi-permanent and can't be removed from the bug screens on the inside of the vent at all if you needed to. If you ever get water in the basement, the holes are the only way for it to escape. I would suggest making a small ball of HVAC putty and place it in the vent opening, being careful not to push it in too far into the screen. The putty does not harden and can be flicked out with a screwdriver when you want to open the vents for ventilation. I personally like the vents open anytime the temperatures are not going below freezing.

A long-shot but the stats above suggest to me that you may be experiencing a furnace air circulation problem in addition to any thermostat issues. I am guessing that you have the standard bed option and that you are testing your furnace with the bed made up. If this is not the case, please disregard this post as it isn't relevant to you. However, for others with the standard bed option, understanding my experience may be helpful. Your furnace is running about 66% of the time and is off only about 34% of the time. This seems like a lot of furnace on-time when it is 26 degrees outside. Off 4.04 On 9.36 Off 2.59 On 8.53 Off 5.41 On 7.42 Off 5.34 On 9.33 Off 3.49 On 7.55 Off 3.17 On 9 Off 2.23 26.27 51.19 34% 66% I experienced a similar problem with my LE II with the standard bed made up, although the outside temperature was up in the 40s. The problem was the furnace was running hard and short cycling, having trouble raising the temperature at the thermostat to merely 60 degrees. After getting out of bed, I realized that the temperature in the space under the bed was at least 85 degrees. I diagnosed the problem was the location of the single return air vent in my LE II that is located in the rear curbside corner of the trailer way back under the bed. It turns out, all of the hot air coming out of the two supply vents was being immediately sucked under the bed through the singe air return vent and back to the furnace and was not mixing with the remaining air in the cabin. Not only did this result in the rest of the trailer heating up very slowly, but the air from the furnace supply vents became very hot until the temperature over-limit switch in the furnace shut it down. Given the above stats, and assuming you have the standard floor plan and the bed is made up, it would be easy to test if you are experiencing this problem. Just rerun the test above, but remove a cushion on the front dinette and open the hatch wide. (also make sure your supply vents are angled forward so the warm air is not directed under the bed). This test condition will result in most of the return air to the furnace traveling through the open hatch and not under the bed, allowing the warm air from the furnace to mix with the cabin air (and thermostat) before returning the the furnace. If you experience a more balanced operation of the furnace on-off times resulting from this test, you have found at least part of your problem. This could actually be causing the problem with your thermostat as well. The Dometic thermostat anticipates when it needs to come on to maintain a temperature at no less than 2 degrees from the set-point. It actually remembers how fast the trailer cooled off previously and adjusts furnace restart time accordingly. If you have the air circulation problem I describe above, then the temperature around the thermostat is going to fall fast when the furnace turns off, even if the area under the bed is still a balmy 80 degrees. The thermostat "learns" that it needs to run almost constantly to maintain temperature within two degrees of the set-point at the thermostat. The clicking you hear may actually be coming from the furnace and not the air conditioner (mine was). This can happen when the furnace shuts off originally due to overheating of the heat exchanger, and the furnace igniter tries to restart the furnace before the heat exchanger has cooled sufficiently that the safety cutoff switch opens to allow the furnace to actually ignite again. This will generate a continuous, noisy clicking noise.

It does sound baffling. You indicated that you did a load test on the two "suspect batteries". You may want to also load test the other two batteries as part of your continued troubleshooting. Good luck.

The method (hack?) I chose to seal the battery door vents was quick and temporary until I get around to a more permanent solution. I just taped over the four vents on the inside of the door with wide white tape of the kind that is used to tape insulation around metal duct work and water heaters. You can't see the tape from the outside so it is not unsightly and does seal off the air flow. I then cut a piece of reflectix insulation to fit the inside of the battery door 1/2 inch , smaller around than the door, cut a hole so the reflectix would fit over the lock mechanism, and then taped the reflectix insulation onto the backside of the door with Frog Tape completely around the outer edge. It has lasted almost two years and worked well enough that I have not been motivated to do a more professional job. There have been posts with pictures in the past on this forum by folks that did a professional job at sealing the vents and insulating the door itself. I searched awhile and couldn't find them, but I will bet someone else on the forum remembers this and will post a link to the thread(s). They did it right. I have yet to insulate the storage door but it is on my to do list. Steve

You might try changing the fan speed setting on the thermostat from "Auto" to "High" (see instructions) and see if the problem(s) go away. Assuming you have the suburban furnace, the furnace fan must always run at "high" speed anyway. The "auto" fan speed setting is only relevant when using certain air conditioners/heat pumps.

Don't forget about the Truma water heater if you will have one. Running the furnace while traveling will not protect the Truma in sub-freezing temperatures. Make sure the Truma is set to Eco when traveling in below freezing temps (propane) or alternatively, activate the electric antifreeze heating element in the Truma (preferred) if you ordered the option. Make sure OTT has actually installed the antifreeze kit when you pick up the trailer and make sure they explain how to insert the exhaust plug and set the control to electric antifreeze when you travel in sub-freezing weather. (And don't forget to remove the Truma exhaust plug before switching the Truma back to propane when you arrive at your destination.)

My trailer is stored across town so I can't post a picture today but it sounds like your 2021 doesn't have an access plate hatch where my 2020 does which is located below and slightly left of the galley. That hatch is very close to the pex lines to the outside shower and distributes heat to that area well. I think you are on the right track and this is what I will probably do when I get around to doing a permanent, quality fix. First, your idea to make the existing return vent in front of the furnace on the street side smaller when you add other vents is a very good idea. I will probably close off that vent entirely. I will then ensure I add sufficient return vent area to replace it. The manual says something like a minimum of 50 sq. inches but I will probably make sure I have at least 60 sq. inches unobstructed with at least 8 sq. inches in the bathroom and at least 50 sq. inches on the streetside of the main cabin. I am leaning toward placing the bathroom vent immediately below the sink in the upper part of the recessed towel bar insert so that shower water can't easily enter. This vent should keep the bathroom warmer when the door is closed and also keep the plumbing area under the closet close to cabin temperature. For the main cabin, I will block the existing vent in front of the furnace and add two square vents of at least 25 sq. inches each to the streetside. I will place one of these directly across from the existing vent on the curbside to heat the garage/outside shower area and the second somewhere close to the front of the main cabin on the streetside. One other issue in my 2020 was that OTT shared the bathroom duct run with an adjustable duct in the main cabin. This is another design flaw as when the adjustable vent is closed (to try to force more air to the bathroom vent?), there is insufficient supply duct capacity (a safety issue) and the furnace overheats and short cycles. I tried to make sure that the vent was always adjusted open but found that the vent always closed itself when traveling. It is easy to remove the rotating closure ring from the back of the round vent cover which I did so now that vent is always fully open. This solved my short-cycling problem and the furnace heats the main cabin of the trailer much better (but not the bathroom).

I too have a 2020 LE II and I definitely bought mine new as a 4 season trailer and as I use it extensively through the winter in Oregon, I do not winterize it. I am extremely pleased with the LE II overall, but OTT completely failed when they engineered the forced air heating system. A forced air heating system does not distribute hot air throughout the living space, it has return ducts that pull hot air from the supply ducts across the living space to a one or more return ducts and back to the furnace. Oliver only put in one return duct and they located it immediately in front of the furnace itself. This means that there is no circulation of heated cabin air through the basement. It is dead air space. Even more inexcusable, OTT didn't put any return vent in the bathroom so when the bathroom door is closed, the supply vent in the bathroom pressurizes the bathroom space and warm air doesn't flow into the bathroom. Given the primary problem is a lack of properly sized and located return air vents, adding or relocating supply vents will not be very effective at warming the basement. I too spent did lots of testing with thermostats to get a good understanding of basement temperatures at various cabin temperatures. Like you, I found that no matter how hot I heated the cabin, the area around the outside shower would inevitably fall to around 5 degrees above the outside temperature. I determined the main reason was the lack of heated air circulating through the basement due to the lack of appropriately located return vents in the cabin. I also found that the tiny vents in the bottom of the trailer designed to drain any water that finds its way to the basement are a problem in cold weather given the flaws in the heating system. There are enough tiny air leaks in the cabin to create a slow convection effect which draws cold outside air slowly through the basement vents. Since there is no warm air circulating through the basement even when the furnace is running given the flawed design, this slow intrusion of outside air pools in the basement creating the dramatic temperature differentials between the cabin and the basement. I have not permanently fixed the problem yet, but found a temporary workaround that I am confident is good down to 15 degrees or so. If you have the inverter like I do, there is a large street side hole just behind the battery box (to access the inverter GFCI). When it gets cold, I just unscrew and remove the cover and create a second temporary street side return vent. Now more than 50% of the hot cabin air flows into the street side of the basement and across the water tanks and rear area stirring up the air. The area by the outside shower now varies less than 10 degrees from cabin temperature and the battery box stays within 5 degrees of cabin temperature (I have lithiums and have sealed and insulated the battery door). The furnace seems to run quieter and the cabin heat is more evenly distributed. The walls don't get quite as cold either. This winter if it gets real cold, I will also temporarily tape over the vents under the trailer to stop the convection currents from pulling cold outside air directly into the basement. For me, I think the permanent fix is to add a few return vents to the trailer. I will probably put one under the front dinette next to the CO detector and another smaller one in the bathroom. This should ensure that the entire basement enjoys adequate circulation of warm air when the furnace is running and that the bathroom is warm even with the door closed. You may want to try unscrewing the cover from the street side hole in front of the inverter and see if you experience the same improvements in basement temperatures that I did.

My 2020 LE II came with a factory installed bubble level installed on the upper left wall inside the rear storage garage. When unhitching, I first use the tongue jack bubble level along with Anderson levelers to get close. Then I go to the rear and fine-tune the port to starboard leveling using the stabilizing jacks while observing the factory installed bubble level. I will note that I didn't discover this factory installed bubble level in the storage garage until months and several trips had passed after picking up my LE II.

It sounds to me like the Truma AC has a soft-start capacitor built in to the unit by design which is why they will not honor warranty if a capacitor is added external to the Truma. I speculate that two uncoordinated capacitors in series may not always work well together. A soft start capacitor provides instantaneous reactive power reserves and it is reactive power that creates the electromagnetic field which allows any conductor to transmit real power. It is reactive power that supports voltage. Large generators on the bulk grid are designed to vary the amount of reactive power they generate in real time (simultaneous with generating real power or watts) to support grid voltage. Small generators like the Honda are rated at unity power factor and are not designed to inject or boost reactive power when faced with inductive loads like a sudden AC compressor load. Hence the need for a soft-start capacitor which minimizes voltage sag for the fraction of a second when the compressor starts. From the guidance out of Truma mentioned above, I expect that they have designed the unit with an integrated soft start capacitor that mitigates voltage sag on startup. (Just like the external soft-start capacitor that Oliver installed in my 2020 LE II does). I am reasonably confident that the Honda EU2200i, or any similar nominal 2,000 watt generator will start and run the Truma, or I don't think OTT wouldn't have made the switch.

Making the switch to LifePO4 batteries can be stressful because of the initial cost and because they are so new. It was for me, I can't comment on the Battle Born battery you are looking at as I have no experience with them. I have always liked that they are made in the USA and they have come down in price considerably in the last two years. I don't know that the particular model you are looking at would be your best choice though. You would probably be just as pleased with two of the 100 ah Battle Born batteries as they are over $600 less expensive than the single 270 ah model and because they are the same size as your current batteries (Group 27), you know they will fit in your battery tray exactly like your current batteries. You will still have considerably more usable capacity than you currently have with your flooded batteries and they weigh about 20 lbs less than the single large 270 ah Battle Born. Also, if one battery ever fails while boondocking due to a bad BMS, you still have one good battery. Do you plan to do the conversion yourself? If so, then it may be easier as well to go with the two 100 ah Battle Born alternative (like Mike and Carol) and since the battery posts are in similar locations so you probably can use your existing cables. The larger Battle Born appears to have the posts at one end which may require lengthening or shortening your existing battery cables. I do note that the Battle Born batteries don't have typical battery posts so you will likely need to re-terminate your existing cables to work with the Battle Born batteries in any case. Minor in the scheme of things. I wanted the lithium option when I ordered my LE II but Oliver didn't offer it so I changed out my 4 flooded batteries for LifePO4 as soon as I got back from Hohenwald over two years ago. Being particularly cost conscious after paying for our Ollie, I went with 4 Lion Energy UT1300 105 ah batteries I bought through Costco (420 ah total for $2800). They are Group 24 size and took less than two hours to change out and the cables only required one minor modification. It should have taken less than an hour, but I had to run to NAPA and get a new battery post clamp as for some reason the Lion Energy batteries came with both posts sized as negative posts (in typical flooded batteries the positive post is slightly larger in diameter than the negative post). They may have fixed that by now. I have been using the Lion Energy batteries extensively for over two years now with no problems whatsoever (they do have an outstanding warranty). Costco only carries them a few times each year as a special event. They have an event going on now that expires tomorrow (Sept. 11). Steve

Roguebooks, Yes, you could replace your two 6 volt AGM batteries (220 ah at 20 hour rate) with one 12 volt LifePO4 (lithium) battery (100 ah) and it would actually be an upgrade in performance under most conditions. Some reasons for this are: 1. The AGM's are rated at 220 ah when discharging over 20 hours which is an 11ah rate of discharge (220 ah/20 hours). At a 5 hour rate of discharge storage falls to under 190 ah of which only half (95 ah) is usable without dramatically shortening battery life. Lithium batteries do not lose storage capacity at high rates of discharge like the AGMs and can be discharged down to 15% without any significant voltage drop or shortening battery life. This benefit is very noticeable if one has an inverter and occasionally places large loads on the batteries (microwave, hot pot, etc.). 2. It takes hours to charge the AGM batteries the last 20 percent no matter how large a charger you use due to internal battery resistance that increases with state of charge. Lithium batteries can accept very large charge currents right up to the point at which they reach full charge. It can mean the difference between running a generator for 2 hours versus 5 hours. It also means that you will always be able to continuously store the full output of your solar panels unless the batteries are completely full. 3. AGM batteries perform poorly at cold temperatures due to significant voltage drop. At 32 degrees F, an AGM battery loses 15 percent of its capacity. The lithiums lose almost none. If you do have an inverter/charger installed in your LE , it almost certainly has a LifePO4 charging profile in which case there is nothing else to do to convert to lithium batteries besides removing the AGMs and putting the lithium (s) in and reconnecting the battery cables. Steve Here is a link to a testimonial from a mariner who made the switch and discovered the more obscure benefits of converting to LifePO4. He explains all this pretty well. https://panbo.com/lithium-battery-math-better-than-you-may-think/

Welcome to the Oliver family Wendy and Steven. My wife Lornie and I (also a Steve) are also retired and live just a few miles north of you in close in SE PDX. We picked up our LEII in Hohenwald two years ago in August 2020 and came back via Missouri, Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, Idaho then Oregon. We had planned to take our time returning home like you are planning to do but right after picking up the trailer we got word that Lornie's brother who had MS had gone into intensive care. We accelerated our trip home. I drove 400 miles the first day as a shakedown and and then another 1450 miles total on days 2 and 3. The LEII has such good towing manners that honestly I didn't find the long miles any more tiring than driving the interstate without the trailer. I also found the LEII to be much easier to back up than my 8 foot utility trailer or 14 foot popup. I never realized before how much nicer a well designed twin axle trailer tows compared to a single axle trailer. I don't know what tow vehicle you will be using but if you are at all apprehensive about the trip or towing, then I recommend that you order the Andersen hitch even if it is not really required for your tow vehicle. It really works well and they do everything to set it up for you when you pick up the trailer. I had a big scare the first day on a two lane road in Missouri when I launched off of a unmarked elevated railroad crossing at 55 miles an hour. It felt like the tow vehicle left the road and flew into the air (I probablly did not) and I braced for the porpoising and possible loss of control. There was no porpoising at all and the Andersen hitch dampened all movement after one bounce. I am sold on the Andersen mated with the LEII. The price of many of Oliver's options are approaching obscene, but the Andersen is worth every penny in my opinion. I have never had any issues hitching or unhitching with the Andersen and it only adds 2-3 minutes to the time it takes to hitch up and even less when unhitching. Lornie and I would be happy to meet you some time over food or beverage to share our Oliver experiences with you. Send a PM if you are interested. Congratulations on your Oliver purchase!

I experienced the same yellowing of my window caulking after my first extended trip shortly after picking up my Oliver. It looked the same as it does in your picture. Turns out that it was just discolored from driving a number of miles on a gravel road with clouds of very fine dust. When the trailer comes out of the factory there is a very slight residual stickiness to the surface of the caulk that attracts fine dust like a magnet and holds on to it. A light wash and hard rinse didn't remove the dust/discoloration and it was still yellow looking. However, a fair amount of extra pressure with a soapy wash mitt on the caulk when washing the trailer a second time (and some use of a soft toothbrush for tight spots) made the caulk white again and eliminated the slight stickiness. It worked for me and I haven't experienced discolored caulk again.

I am very glad we ordered the rear view camera. With it, I have no need for extended side view mirrors. I can always see what is behind me and I can also always see when it is safe to change lanes as it is sometimes hard to tell if you have enough clearance when looking in the side view mirror (objects may be closer than they appear!). The rear view camera is especially handy when you need to change lanes quickly and/or merge in dense traffic. I don't find it all that helpful for backing up.