NO BRAKES ; 2019 Oliver Elite II-Hull #448

[BoondockingAirstream]

Purchased the 2019 Oliver Elite II February 2022 from Original Owner. It was clean and had not been used very much.  Much like on the Oliver lot when new.

We got the plates, insurance paper work filed and paid and connected the Oliver to the 2016 F350 4x4 Diesel.  We also have a  2019 27FBQ Airstream International.  The Oliver was for a Boondocking alternative travel trailer.   NO BRAKES.  Plug into F350, pull away and 'Brakes Disconnected'.

The Brake System of the F350 works perfectly with the 2019 Airstream.  Not on the Oliver, apparently.  I was told by Oliver it is possible the 2016 F350 may not be compatible.  I am going to try one of our under the dash units, used on two other Airstreams we owned over the last 19 years.

The heavy F350 handles the Oliver easily, but having Trailer Brakes... is necessary.  Also to sell, as well.  I removed the Truma Hot water system.  It was not operational, as well.  I was notified about a Recall in the US MAIL,,, but since I removed the totally mutilated Truma... "sorry no can help".  It had the uncrimped propane heating unit that is on the recall..  Previous owner gave me Service Tickets trying to have it fixed.  Did not work then either,

Reading other posts about Trailer Brakes Not Working... our wiring looks nothing like any of those.  No information in the Oliver Service Guide. Oliver is careful not to get into giving advice and then have things go wrong, which I understand.

We were also told our 2016 F350 trailer electronics,  may be too OLD for the Oliver.  It works perfectly with the 2019 Airstream.  Hmmm.

It appears that the wiring on Olivers change often,  Ours is different under the table and beds than other photographs seen on the Forum.  I photographed the possible areas. Did check all of the wiring into the Buss Bar.  All snug and look good. Everything else works that is electrical.  Any suggestions?

[Mike and Carol]

Hey Ray, I had an issue with my brakes intermittently disconnecting.  There is a set of brake wires that go through the rear axle that had worn to the point where bare wire was contacting the metal axle.  Several other owners have had the same issue.  The wires were pulled out and replaced and are now zip tied to the outside of the axle.  Problem solved.  It’s a bit unusual that your trailer is not high mileage for this to be the cause but it is worth checking.  I’ll see if I can dig up some of the old posts on this issue.  Mike

[Mike and Carol]

Here’s a thread addressing this issue with pictures.  If this is your problem it’s pretty straightforward to fix.  Good luck.  Mike

Brake Disconnect Thread

 

Edited Tuesday at 11:33 PM by Mike and Carol

[BoondockingAirstream]

Mike & Carol... thanks for the posts.  I will look for the Brake Disconnect Thread and try to move my information over to the Brake Disconnect Thread.

I tried to go back and add the following... but could not until it was reviewed.

"I jacked each side up, spun the wheels and pulled the Break Away Switch and both sides LOCKED UP IMMEDIATELY and immovable.  Plugged the BAS back in and they spun perfectly."

I did try Oliver Inc. for some advice, but because of them having some issues if they gave me advice and something went wrong... they had to withhold any assistance.  I understand.  This seems to be a change as I believe Oliver Inc. has helped with some suggestions on the Forum.

The first owner obviously had this issue before me.  I have a mechanical brain and electricity is not my choice of repairs.  I could not find my Ohms meter for working on antique Wurlitzer Jukeboxes years ago and could not find it... in the garage.

With a F350 Diesel 4x4 braking is still important, but this heavy tow vehicle manages.  I want it to operate properly.  No schematics.  Nothing in the service manual to help.  It seems like everything electronic changes often... and if the problem is not found, while parking in the lot, when purchased... brakes are often missed from what I have read and once hundreds of miles away... might have noticed.  But thought it was a simple issue...??

[Steph and Dud B]

You definitely need the brakes working. You're not legal without them.

I have read somewhere about some trucks having a problem with some trailers. Found this online: "Ford vehicles, particularly certain F-150 and Super Duty models, have experienced issues with their factory-installed trailer brake controllers. These problems can range from the trailer brakes not engaging at all, to intermittent connection problems, or even the trailer brakes applying unexpectedly and forcefully. A common cause is a software glitch within the integrated trailer brake control module, which can prevent the controller from correctly detecting a trailer or properly applying the brakes. " See if you can borrow someone else's truck to see if the problem persists.

Another likely failure point is the 7 way plug on the trailer. Those contacts can become spread out and/or corroded. Look inside the plug and inspect the brake contacts with a flashlight. If they're corroded, a temporary fix can be using a thin file, emory board, or screwdriver blade to scrape the contacts clean. If they seem spread out, use a small screw driver or hook to bend them back inward a bit. These would be temporary fixes.

If your plug is shot, it's easy to replace. Disconnect the trailer batteries before you start because the 12v Power lead is hot and then follow this wiring diagram to install a new plug. 

[BoondockingAirstream]

I will soon discover what the 'real problem' is with my 2019 Oliver Elite II electrical brake system.  A Mobile RV/TT service van is coming to the Oliver's current home on August 7th.

They use a 'Test Box that Plugs into the RV Plug' and tracks what and where the problem may be located:  Some say it is my vintage 2016 F350 Diesel 4x4 trailer beast that stretched the Oliver to an Elite III length.  Some say it is the current owner. Some say I have my wires crossed and shorted within my skull.

I say it is the Oliver since being built in 2019.

 Neanderthals are not tested for a pulse, but I can ask.  Also: Rating my towing ability. Common sense approach to mechanical things, but less when electricity is involved.

The previous owner would not return my call, after purchase, about his experiences with the Oliver's electric braking system.  Several messages.  Polite, but to the point.  Still waiting after four years.

I will ask if I can take photographs during the process.  If so, I will post them and the results.

Towed three, purchased new Airstreams, since 2006 and no electric brake issues.

Towed my current 2019 Airstream since new, NO electric brake issues.

Owned the 2019 Oliver Elite II used, since February 2022, WITH brake issues on the inaugural  first day of ownership.  I use the term Inaugural: "implying a more formal official ceremonial and transfer of my wealth to a stranger".  

 

Edited Wednesday at 08:48 PM by BoondockingAirstream

[CRM]

Since your brakes work when you pulled your disconnect I'm guessing it's likely a simple connection issue on the blue wire or ground. Less likely the ground wire if your running lights/turn signals and brake lights are working. 

[jd1923]

54 minutes ago, CRM said:

Since your brakes work when you pulled your disconnect I'm guessing it's likely a simple connection issue on the blue wire or ground. Less likely the ground wire if your running lights/turn signals and brake lights are working. 

Or the Ford issue that @Steph and Dud B cited. First thing to try is to test for voltage at the Ford F350 TV 7-blade connecter. Jump the BLUE and WHITE wires with a test light or meter while a friend applies the brake pedal then releases, on and off.

@BoondockingAirstream you don't need another trailer.

If it shows voltage, then test for amperage through the blue when connected. I believe @Geronimo John wrote that brakes at each wheel should draw 2-4A, so at the main harness it should show 4x this number when all 4 brakes are working. If you have 12VDC at the hitch and no amperage draw downstream to the trailer, then you have an open circuit along the path to the wheels.

No brakes at all likely means your issue is not wiring at individual wheels or in the axles. It would be between the TT 7-blade connector and where it's connected to the first wheel in line.

[Steph and Dud B]

4 hours ago, CRM said:

Less likely the ground wire

The brakes are grounded to the trailer frame, not through the truck connector. This is so they will still work via the breakaway switch without the truck. That makes the blue wire from the truck the likely suspect, since the breakaway does still activate the brakes. My money is still on the connector itself.

[CRM]

21 minutes ago, Steph and Dud B said:

The brakes are grounded to the trailer frame, not through the truck connector. 

That trailer ground works for the breakaway switch since the battery in the trailer powers it, but to complete the brake circuit from the truck  you must have a good ground from the truck to the trailer too 

[Ronbrink]

16 hours ago, CRM said:

Since your brakes work when you pulled your disconnect I'm guessing it's likely a simple connection issue on the blue wire or ground. Less likely the ground wire if your running lights/turn signals and brake lights are working. 

I tend to agree, and venture to say likely a bad ‘blue’ wire connection either at the male 7-pin connector or downstream on the Oliver. The OP has no issue with other trailers being pulled by his F350 and thus, don’t think the vintage of the TV or inherent factory installed equipment issues are of concern. 

Edited Thursday at 01:08 PM by Ronbrink

[Steph and Dud B]

10 hours ago, CRM said:

to complete the brake circuit from the truck  you must have a good ground from the truck to the trailer too 

That makes sense, it needs to complete the circuit. However if the ground connection from the truck was faulty, I'd expect @BoondockingAirstream to have other problems, like intermittent running lights, too. With him reporting the breakaway system working properly it seems most of the trailer brake wiring is intact.

[CRM]

1 minute ago, Steph and Dud B said:

That makes sense, it needs to complete the circuit. However if the ground connection from the truck was faulty, I'd expect @BoondockingAirstream to have other problems, like intermittent running lights, too. With him reporting the breakaway system working properly it seems most of the trailer brake wiring is intact.

I've seen LED trailer lights work correctly getting their ground through just the hitch coupling alone but then the trailer brakes work intermittently or not at all. Happened to me a few years back with my boat trailer. Still think a missing ground is at the bottom of the list in this situation though... If it were mine, I'd hit both connectors with some  DeoxIT before I even broke out the multimeter. 

[BoondockingAirstream]

I have a Mobile RV service coming 8-7-2025.  They use a 'Wire Trace Box' they plug into the RV Plug Wiring on the Oliver. 

 Thanks Steph and Dud B for the color plug wiring diagram.  I made a copy to put with our Oliver 'suitcase' of manuals.  Nothing in the manuals cover trouble shooting, that I am aware of.

I will ask the service worker if this issue left the Oliver Factory  like this, or something that happened afterwards.  I understand mechanical fixes rebuilding auto engines and replacing parts... but not electrical.

Will know... I hope then.  This should not happen to any owner.

 

 

[BoondockingAirstream]

I am curious.  Is there a fuse to be checked in the 2019 Elite II models for power going to the electric brakes?  And possibly where?

[Galway Girl]

 

The breakaway switch connects the blue wires and the pink wire through +12v side of a 20amp resetting breaker (under the street side rear bench cover). 

CS

 

Edited yesterday at 01:32 AM by Galway Girl

[BoondockingAirstream]

Thank you for the wonderful information that I have printed and will have it handy when the Mobile Service Van arrives.

My out of pocket expense for this:  

Administration One Time Fee: $150

Minimum Fee for Service- 1st Hour:  $175 

Hopefully this will be completed within the One Hour Service call total of $325.00.

We did call Oliver Inc. but they were concerned to give any advice as to the possible solution. Which I cannot blame them, but was disappointed. This information could have been given to the Service Tech...  This Las Vegas, Nevada Mobile Service has a list of RV's and Travel Trailer logos, that they have experience working upon... includes most everyone... except Oliver.  I said now they may be able to include Oliver.  We may be the only Oliver in the State of Nevada.

We have towed three Airstreams, without brake issues.

I tow with a 2016 F350 Diesel 4x4 King Ranch.  Engine braking is wonderful, as well.  I just want to get this personal nightmare fixed. 

Our 2019 27FBQ Airstream the electric brakes work perfectly towing On the Ball with the F350.  The 2019 Oliver Elite II will tows On the Ball..., as well. 

Edited Thursday at 11:45 PM by BoondockingAirstream

[jd1923]

12 hours ago, BoondockingAirstream said:

Is there a fuse to be checked in the 2019 Elite II models for power going to the electric brakes?

There are others here that know way more than me re electrical code and insurance regulations…

My thinking, just based in logic, is the brake system is not fused for safety reasons! 🤣

[mossemi]

20 hours ago, Galway Girl said:

The breakaway switch connects the blue wires and the pink wire through a 20amp resetting breaker (under the street side rear bench cover).

@Galway Girl I think the schematic indicates that the breakaway switch is on the hot side of the of the 20A auto resetting breaker, meaning that the breakaway switch is alway hot and the black 20A breaker services the black charge wire.

But according to my wife, I was wrong yesterday, so that may apply to today as well!

Mossey

[Steph and Dud B]

14 hours ago, BoondockingAirstream said:

We have towed three Airstreams, without brake issues.

To be fair, this is not an exclusively Oliver problem, nor are Airstreams immune from issues like this. 7 pin connectors, in particular, often have problems due to corrosion and wear and tear. One preventative tip: store the plug upright with the cable hanging down from a water resistant mount like this: https://a.co/d/aJVOMmq Ours is mounted to the storage tray. This prevents water from wicking its way down the cable into the internal connections in the plug.

[BoondockingAirstream]

An interesting thought from a new owner of a used Oliver Elite II.  Does a new owner have access to any warranty work done or asked from a previous owner from Oliver Inc.?

I worked for OSHA from 1970 - 1972 as a 'Safety Representative'.  When making walk through inspections, wanting to ask random questions, it was amazing how scarce employees became.  None wanted to come forward, when the Boss... was tagging along.  Often I would ask to walk the work area before... speaking with those in charge... after my walk through observations.

I am a curious individual. When something makes no sense... it needs a second or third look.

Is the owner responsible for the Electric Brake Wiring, sitting at Oliver Inc. checking out appliances?  Is there a Tow Around Town to check brakes?  Before the new owner departs?

I would also ike to know IF the previous owner contacted Oliver Inc. about inoperable Electric Brakes?  Or does Oliver Inc. go to each owner to test them?  As a newbie... even tire pressure is an unknown,  Non the less Electric Brakes?

[BoondockingAirstream]

We are in the Desert.  No moisture issues here.

No corrosion,  Do not blame the messenger. When this problem is discovered and resolved... I will be the first to mention it.  No salted roads in the Summer months.

Do not blame the messenger.  The majoriity owners, if not all,  Oliver or Airstream owners  take pride in their property that is only a few years old.

[Steph and Dud B]

Apologies if my comment was taken the wrong way. My point is, electric brake problems are fairly common on all towed RVs. We've had 4 trailers and among them have had: brake wires damaged inside the axle tubes (a Dexter problem), loose ground wire to the frame (a factory problem), failed adjuster spring (a Dexter problem), failed 7 pin plug (wear and tear). They can come from the factory faulty or be fine for 5 years, then fail. It's just the nature of the beast. And, if you look through my previous posts, you'll see I'm anything but an Oliver fan-boy. I'm just saying this is a common problem across all brands. Hopefully, you'll have a resolution soon.

[CRM]

7 hours ago, Steph and Dud B said:

My point is, electric brake problems are fairly common on all towed RVs. 

Yep, which is why it behooves all RV owners to own a multimeter and a test light (and to learn how to use them) so they are able to diagnose simple electrical issues like this quickly themselves. 

Edited Friday at 10:36 PM by mossemi
Mossey changed multimedia to multimeter.

[BoondockingAirstream]

These are all good conversations.  Those following may pick up useful information.  Apparently owners are the problem.  You need your own tools to check and service your travel trailer? Is this during warranty, or after or either?  Are there any Recalls in the RV Industry?  Does the manufacturer supply a list of what you need to test with?  I have none with my Airstreams or Vehicles.  I carry my own tools, but not a truck load. For 60 years and traveling, tools for normal wear mechanical on the road fixes.

"RV's have fairly common electric brake problems"?  Where are the State and Federal Government's position about travel trailers and recreational vehicles and common brake problems?  From what I understand... nothing.  Only Tow Vehicles?

Why has nothing being done at the Factory to PREVENT ANY 'no electric brake operation' while on the Oliver Inc.  lot? No checking the tow vehicle and trailer are functioning as designed before a new owner departs?  Do only those who purchase a travel trailer that have no brakes, after purchase,  the problem?  Or do the Electric Bakes only fail ONLY AFTER Purchase? Never due to a build issue that year, day, hour or minute during assembly?  Then does warranty work pay to any RV repair service at their rate, or does the owner pay the difference during the warranty period?

When investigating a fatality at a work site, we would interview witnesses.... separately.  Some were rehearsed, obviously.  When Electric Brakes are discussed... it is the owner, tow vehicle or corrosion of ONLY the Brake System... not the frame, iron or other wiring,  Now come on.  Common Sense tells me... I did not create the electrical issue.

Hopefully... the local mobile travel trailer service will get this figured out.  I should not do not need to carry electronic equipment and testing equipment in my Oliver or Airstream or F350, as this should have never been an issue.  

(Those who have or had electric braking issues... how were yours resolved?  My post is intended to get conversations on why this is so common, if it is... how to keep it from happening to anyone.  The owner knew... sold it to me at a premium price... and found a sucker,) 

 

Edited Friday at 04:07 PM by BoondockingAirstream