We are stuck without power. Where do I find the converter and will it support lithium batteries

[taylor.coyote]

I have been given some good advice in another stream about batteries. Can anyone tell me where I can find the factor installed converter, the likely brand and model and if it will support lithium batteries?

The rest of the story is a nightmare.  Camped near the south rim of Grand Canyon ( 7,000 ft) and my AMG batteries are failing and not getting us through the night.  We solved the lack of batteries by finding a RV park for shore power.

I plug into shore power and NOTHING.  We had yet to use shore power on this trip and !@@#@! the transfer relay is not working. So here we are at 7000 ft  with batteries not getting us through the night and no shore power. I'm working to either replace my batteries or finding the transfer relay box so we can power to continue our trip. At this point either or is good with us. And of course, it's Saturday night.

The stop gap solution: We were able to borrowed (no stores open to buy anything) a 110 power cord to pull through a window to power our electric heater... 

We are kind of keeping out since of humor. Your help will be apprecaited 

[CRM]

I don't have an auto transfer switch on mine, but I don't think it will work without 12v going to it. Maybe your batteries are completely dead? Maybe use jumper cables from your TV to get enough juice to get it to work? I'm sure other will jump in who are more knowledgeable on this. Good luck! 

[Steph and Dud B]

A couple of thoughts:

1. Does your trailer have 2 shoreline inputs, one on the driver's side and one on the passenger side of the hitch? If so, try the other one. 

2. Does your unit have a power management system display, perhaps in the attic cabinet? With shore power connected, does the PMS display show anything? Any error codes?

Not sure where the transfer switch and converter are in your model year. You should be able to find that information online in Oliver University

[Mike and Carol]

53 minutes ago, taylor.coyote said:

I have been given some good advice in another stream about batteries. Can anyone tell me where I can find the factor installed converter, the likely brand and model and if it will support lithium batteries?

The rest of the story is a nightmare.  Camped near the south rim of Grand Canyon ( 7,000 ft) and my AMG batteries are failing and not getting us through the night.  We solved the lack of batteries by finding a RV park for shore power.

I plug into shore power and NOTHING.  We had yet to use shore power on this trip and !@@#@! the transfer relay is not working. So here we are at 7000 ft  with batteries not getting us through the night and no shore power. I'm working to either replace my batteries or finding the transfer relay box so we can power to continue our trip. At this point either or is good with us. And of course, it's Saturday night.

The stop gap solution: We were able to borrowed (no stores open to buy anything) a 110 power cord to pull through a window to power our electric heater... 

We are kind of keeping out since of humor. Your help will be apprecaited 

Your Progressive Dynamics converter is a circuit card located in your fuse box under the dinette seat (PD4045).  Yours will not support lithium batteries, mine didn’t either.  Your hull is the same year as mine.  I ordered a new one, it was about $150.  It has a switch for lithium batteries.  It’s fairly straightforward to switch them out.  If I did it you can too.  While you are down there, check to make sure your main breaker didn’t flip off.  Also, I would check under the bed with your Bluesky for the red circuit breaker to make sure it isn’t off.  You might have another one under the dinette seat, I do.  Make sure it is set.  If you are hooked up to shore power and not getting 110 in the trailer I would suspect one of those breakers broke and needs to be reset (push the little flag back in to place).  Hope this helps.  Mike

[taylor.coyote]

I know the transfer relay is bad. I Tap on it and we get power. I Tap on it again and we loose power. Something is shorting out and or ???  With this symptom, I don't feel it's wise to run shore power.  I have been talking with a mobile rv tech about how the rely is behaving. He has seen this issue before and said the box is bad and will only get worse.  

We still have two possible solutions (besides the extention cord through the window).

• One is to replace my old AMG batteries. We want to upgrade to lithium if we are going to purchase batteries. Buying lead acid batteries would be a simple solution but not desirable.  We know the Victron controller will support lithium but I don't know if the factory converter will or where it is located. Can someone tell me where we can find the converter and possibley the make/model?  Does anyone know if the factory converter will support lithium or if the converter will need to be replaced?
• The other solution is to replace my bad transfer relay so  I can have shore power. 

Ultimately we need to fix all our power issues but one or the other will allow us to continue our trip.

At this time I don't know what possible based part availability in Flagstaff or possibly Sedona  

 

[taylor.coyote]

Mike and Carol,

I posted the above not knowing your post. Thank you.  You have given me the information  needed.

Already checked the master power switch under the bed and all the fuses and breakers under in the kitchen. 

certain breakers are not the issue. tapping on the transfer relay make the power go on and off..  

Edited December 7 by taylor.coyote
typo

[CRM]

3 minutes ago, taylor.coyote said:

Mike and Carol,

I posted the above not knowing your post. Thank you.  You have given me the information is needed.

Already check the master power switch under the bed and all the fuses and breakers under in the kitchen. 

certain breakers are not the issue. tapping on the transfer relay make the power go on and off..  

I would still check the battery voltage. If it's too low it might be causing the issue with the relay. Seems weird that you had battery problems and then the relay decides to give up at the same time. 

[taylor.coyote]

Steph and Dud B

thanks for the tip on Oliver University.  very helpful

[jd1923]

12 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

Already checked the master power switch under the bed and all the fuses and breakers under in the kitchen. 

certain breakers are not the issue. tapping on the transfer relay make the power go on and off.

You need to service or replace or when in emergency circumstances bypass your ATS! 

Edited December 7 by jd1923
Wrote at first EMS, changed it to ATS!

[taylor.coyote]

CRM.. thanks for the follow up. I will check the voltage. 

I found a mobile RV repair guy that seems legit has been helpful way past normal hours. He can get the parts Monday morning with the plan to replace the damaged electronic components.  If all goes well, we will be set for shore power and have upgraded everything to be lithium ready.  Have not pulled the trigger on the batteries over the phone with the mobile guy. I have made a small bet paying for electronic components up front but not willing part with the cost of batteries until I see the whites of his eyes.

 

Edited December 7 by taylor.coyote
typo

[taylor.coyote]

Jd1923,

don't understand your note. please explain

[jd1923]

Just now, taylor.coyote said:

Jd1923,

don't understand your note. please explain

I meant ATS, not EMS. You wrote "tapping on the transfer relay make the power go on and off."

The ATS can short out and fail often! I have replaced these on 2 RVs in the last 6 years.

You can open the box and tighten all lugs which may work. Or you can bypass it. Ours burnt out recently. I could have replaced it but i bypassed it connecting only the streetside 30A outlet, since we do not run a generator and never use the front 30A port.

I am assuming you have two (2) shore power inlets (side hull just front of the battery bay and up front behind the basket in front of the LP tanks), otherwise you do not have a shore power ATS.

Ours looks like this and your hull is of same generation. The ATS has two (2) incoming 10/3 cables and one outgoing connected to the 120VAC power panel. You can bypass the ATS using wire nuts to connect the hot/black, neutral/white and ground/green wires together.

If this is not applicable or does not work...
Do you have an inverter? Make sure it is powered on and test again.

Is the main 30A breaker in the power panel and/or other breakers tripped?

I'll stay online for awhile tonight if you need more help. Best wishes, JD

[taylor.coyote]

JD, just got your note...  very helpful  but I'm down for the night.  we have run an extension cord through the window (a little tape to keep to seal the gap) for our portable electric heater.  we will be ok for the night.

can't believe I have put us in this situation. Camped on the batteries all the way through California thinking all was fine. The tired batteries are my fault but this other stuff at the same time is classic.. you can't make this stuff up.  

thanks

[rideadeuce]

You camp and learn. We were at my dad’s in southern MI this past week with temps dropping down in the single digits. Atmos 4.4 heat pump quit working immediately and the plug in electric heater was taken out during the last cleaning and forgot to put it back. Propane tank gauges were showing zero and the Truma water heater started blinking yellow. After turning off the water heater and Atmos several times and verifying propane level by weight we turned on the Suburban propane and stayed warm and cozy for the next 2 days without further problems. It is a learning experience every time you forget something or encounter something challenging out in the wild blue yonder. Part of the adventure! Glad you were able to find some AC for heat, redundancy is key . 

[John Dorrer]

Taping the transfer switch, getting power and then not having it is not good.  The transfer switch you apparently have ,has had several owners having fires and melted wires as a result of no maintenance to tighten all wire connectors. Chris Sharff is one owner that had to replace his transfer switch. The transfer switch is located, I believe under the rear dinette. The last thing you need is a fire.

 

[John Dorrer]

From Chris Scharff's transfer switch replacement and another Owner who had burned wires

 

 

Edited December 7 by John Dorrer

[Steph and Dud B]

14 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

I know the transfer relay is bad. I Tap on it and we get power. I Tap on it again and we loose power.

Have you checked the wire connections inside the transfer switch housing (with all power disconnected, obviously). Those wires have been known to come loose.

[Wayfinder]

@taylor.coyote It sounds like you have an RV tech on the way.  That's the best I think in your situation, especially if you are not familiar with these parts, and on the road without all the tools.

As @John Dorrer mentioned, many of us owners with older Olivers have had to replace their Automatic Transfer Relay (ATR) switch, AND SHOULD!!!!  I've attached my pic of the old style box (insides) and my new style switch box.  I changed out the box myself (with shore power disconnected!!!!). It took me maybe 20 or 30 minutes.

I've also noted in my pics that my front shore power receptacle does NOT go thru my Electrical Management System (EMS) box.  Many do have their front port going thru the EMS, mine was just not done like that at the factory, which proved handy last year in the hot July whether in Georgia, when my EMS kept over heating and switching off.  I think it's time for a new one (to-do list).  But, I always carry an external EMS to place on the exterior camp ground pedestals. When I realized it was not the camp ground killing the power and it was my EMS, I just used the front inlet port to run the power and used my external EMS for the rest of the trip.  Worked like a champ.  So, I guess I will NOT re-route that front port thru the EMS in the future, lesson learned.

Not everyone has that front port.  If folks do not have the front inlet power generator receptacle, then they will not have an ATR box.  

Hope this helps a bit, and you get help quickly.

Reminder, the ATR switch box should be an annual inspectable item.  I just checked mine too since I could not find my old pictures. My old box was very difficult, and scary, to push in the sides of the box to release the tabs.  The new box is MUCH easier to push in and release the tabs.

Here is the new style ATR switch box (I only order this type of important items. from eTrailer, NOT Amazon: https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Transfer-Switch/Progressive-Dynamics/PD5110010Q.html 


 

[taylor.coyote]

Thanks for the warning regarding fire and the great diagrams/images. Out of caution we are not attempting to run any power from 30amp sources. We are again heating the trailer with an electric portable heater with short 12 gauge extension cable through dinette window. We have the dinette hatch open to warm plumbing here.. Additionally, we have enough battery to run the trailer heater for a while in the early morning to heat the plumbing on under the passenger side bed. With some luck, our dilemma will over tomorrow.

The good news, we did not waste the day. The temp was an amzing sunny 50 degrees on the Grand Canyon south rim. Absolutely fantasitic day. Even better, almost no-one around the canyon. No traffic, empty parking area, empty campgrounds and hotels due to the main water line being shut down for emergency repairs. No water throughout. the park was our private playground today..  a once in a lifetime event.  Doesn't get any better than this

Edited December 8 by taylor.coyote
typo

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

Grand Canyon south rim

If you happen to head south, you have an invitation to visit and we can fix this! 😎

Edited December 8 by jd1923

[Geronimo John]

21 hours ago, jd1923 said:

You can open the box and tighten all lugs which may work.

Please do so only with zero 120 Volts in the trailer.  No generator or shore power connected.  No solar connected if you have it.

We have seen several cases where the wires in the ATS have vibrated loose.  Your tapping and getting/losing power would indicate a temporary failure.  May just be a loose wire in the ATS.  

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ONLY IN A DIRE EMERGENCY:  To bypass all of the shore power system:  

• Turn off your 30 amp main breaker.  Turn off any other breakers you don't absolutely need.  You want to keep your loads down to under 15 amps MAX.
• You could energize the electrical system, with some risk, by modifying an extension cord  by cutting off the female end, and install a second male 120V plug.  Use your generator to back feed power to the outlest by the entry door.
• I would not suggest plugging it into a shore power source at the RV park as it has even more electrical potential than a 2K generator does.   Hence a small generator may short, but it's breaker will likely limit the current flow.  Hence not doing this with the power pole at the RV Park.

GJ

[taylor.coyote]

JD, Thank you for your gracious invitation. I would love visit,  patch a few loose ends on the trailer and learn from you. Unfortunately Prescott is in our rear view mirror. Assuming we get our power in order, we plan to loop into southern Ut,  then New Mexico and find our way home (humboldt county Califroina)  by way of San Deigo. Our style is to have a general travel plan with the flexibility to wander as areas interst us. This is our first time in this region. We will return.  

We would like to recipocate by extending a standing invitation to visit us. We have 8 acres in the redwoods. King and Coho Salmon run in Lindsay creek next our property in the winter. The general area is special and well worth the trip if you have never visited.  

 

Edited December 8 by taylor.coyote
typo

[Geronimo John]

Taylor:  Below is WayFinder's post about loose screws in the ATS.  Keep us posted on your "adventure in power".

Geronimo

 

 

[taylor.coyote]

the box is toasted..... imaged attached.  I'll send more about our adventure later.

Edited December 9 by taylor.coyote

[John Dorrer]

1 hour ago, taylor.coyote said:

the box is toasted..... imaged attached.  I send more about our adventure later.

Glad you all are safe. The replacement unit will be much better and safer.