Battleborn Battery Safety Issue

[CRM]

2 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

For sure we KNOW where to put that temp sensor.  B+ Terminal!!!

Now which one.  The Back of the battery bay, the middle b+, or the outside B+ ....

That's a question for the Battery Smarter Owner to answer.

GJ

All things being equal, on the battery closest to the load. Though all things are never equal! 

[topgun2]

HERE'S another YouTube observation on the subject - start the Battle Born segment at 2:27 of the video.

Bill

[katanapilot]

Dragonfly Energy (stock ticker DFLI) down 37% today due to 10-1 reverse stock split being announced. They appear to be trying to hold onto their NASDAQ listing as the stock is trading at about $0.45 today.  

[CRM]

52 minutes ago, katanapilot said:

Dragonfly Energy (stock ticker DFLI) down 37% today due to 10-1 reverse stock split being announced. They appear to be trying to hold onto their NASDAQ listing as the stock is trading at about $0.45 today.  

Down from a high of $258.74 in Dec 2022. Ouch! 

[John Dorrer]

So with Lithonics Lithium Batteries, the phone app has a battery temperature reading for each battery. If there was an issue, would that show up at the temperature reading or is the temperature reading something else?

[Hokieman]

22 hours ago, CRM said:

All things being equal, on the battery closest to the load. Though all things are never equal! 

I have the Victron BMV 712 monitor also, along with 3 BB 100’s that are 5 years old.   Working perfectly, no problem.   My temp sensor is located on the B+ terminal closest to the load.   But it only measures the temp of that battery, which was fine before this mess.  If anyone has a good idea how to monitor the temps on each BB  battery remotely using the Victron monitor or otherwise, let us know.   Otherwise, we can just monitor temps the old fashioned way.  I checked terminals carefully yesterday, not loose, not discolored, no signs of stress.   I put as much load on them as I could, including running fridge on DC.   I don’t have an inverter, so the amp draw was only about 18A.   I measured battery terminal temps before and after with Fluke  thermometer.  Temps did not increase, the amp draw is just too low I suppose.   I shut the batteries off and put the winterized trailer back to sleep.   Temps are in the low teens at night where I live, so no plans to go camping soon.     Maybe BB will eventually do right for their customers, but I won’t postpone camping until that happens.  I’ve got a few months to decide what my next steps will be.  

Edited Tuesday at 08:33 PM by Hokieman

[jd1923]

56 minutes ago, John Dorrer said:

So with Lithonics Lithium Batteries, the phone app has a battery temperature reading for each battery. If there was an issue, would that show up at the temperature reading or is the temperature reading something else?

Heat is conductive, so I believe your app is all you need. If your post heats, the battery temp should go up too. Hoewever, small changes in battery temp might mean larger temps at the post.

We have Epoch and I searched through their app and did not find temp (anybody with Epoch please let me know if there is temp reading).

31 minutes ago, Hokieman said:

But it only measures the temp of that battery, which was fine before this mess.  If anyone has a good idea how to monitor the temps on each BB  battery remotely using the Victron monitor or otherwise, let us know.

You could add Ruuvi sensors on the other two. We use these since in the fridge, freezer, cabin, trunk and on truck fridge and cabin. If I had BB I would move a couple , mount top of each battery near the + post.

[Hokieman]

14 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

You could add Ruuvi sensors on the other two.

Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll check them out.  

[rich.dev]

1 hour ago, jd1923 said:

We have Epoch and I searched through their app and did not find temp (anybody with Epoch please let me know if there is temp reading).

Hey John, pretty sure you have the BMV712, if yes it has a connection/terminal on the shunt to connect an external temp sensor, like THIS Victron temp sensor. 
 

[Geronimo John]

2 hours ago, Hokieman said:

If anyone has a good idea how to monitor the temps on each BB  battery remotely using the Victron monitor or otherwise, let us know.  

Three way selector switch to the 712.  One in, three options out. Would of course   need three of the temperture sensors.  

GJ

Edited Tuesday at 10:45 PM by Geronimo John

[jd1923]

17 minutes ago, rich.dev said:

Hey John, pretty sure you have the BMV712, if yes it has a connection/terminal on the shunt to connect an external temp sensor, like THIS Victron temp sensor. 

In all of my electrical upgrades, I went with NO physical monitors that would be wall-mounted in the Oliver. I like the cleaner look without and I LOVE the Bluetooth apps! 😎

I do have one of those sensors that came with the Victron shunt which I have in a box of extra parts. We have Epoch Essentials 300 Ah, ran two for 600 Ah last 18 months. Installing this week a 3rd 300. Given all this news, I will place a Ruuvi sensor there to measure heat for a while, but with 900 Ah I'd have to run our A/C, our Air Fryer and run a power cord to another RV to run their A/C to get anywhere the 600A of continuous power (2x for peak use) the spec of these batteries. 3x the 100 Ah Battleborns vs. 3x 300 Ah Epoch? 300 vs.  900 Ahs, we live in different worlds.

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, Hokieman said:

Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll check them out.  

We love them! Since this picture we added a Dometic CFX5 45l in the truck bed and I purchased two more Ruuvis. We're always checking fridge/freezer temps, or I'm looking at the trunk temp which is close to outdoor temps. I have one back there to know when the incoming water lines are close to freezing. I'll put one on a battery just to see but we do not have the BBs.

Two years ago I purchased a 4-pack of the simple white ones (not PRO model) and from memory it was under $100. Can't find those anymore, only seeing the PRO model. I got two on Walmart.com for about $45 each recently, like these. Anybody find a deal, please let us know!

https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Temperature-Pressure-Integrates-Assistant/dp/B0D3MDZCWF/

Picture shows two Ruuvi app screen-prints side-by-side showing how running the A/C while towing brought down cabin temp!

[katanapilot]

I'm sure all the Victron users know this, but there is a temperature input on the Smart Shunt, on the Multiplus II and four on the Cerbo GX.  I assume that information can also be fed to the phone app. 

[T-Oliver]

[jd1923]

Thank you @T-Oliver, very nice. I didn't noticed the temps on the 3rd screen, with 3 temps per battery!

This got me looking for more info on the Epoch app and I found this video quite informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZprZ8ncWxs

I see from your app screen-print, you have your batteries switched OFF. Perhaps for winter storage? I also did not realize you can do this from the app. If I turn all batteries OFF, would that be as good as disconnecting the main ground? I've physically disconnected several times for maintenance or installations. Looks that way, so cool! 😎

Our first two Epoch Essential 300s have been installed for 18 months always ON, Victron MP2 always ON and rooftop solar ON (unless I want to let SOC drop down when the Oliver is sitting at home). We use the Oliver year round, only connected to shore power during Aug for A/C. Notice our Batteries #1-2 have 51 and 57 cycles used (out of 4000)! Epoch #3 was just purchased, it arrived at 49% SOC and I had it on a small 10A charger overnight. Right now all 3 are sitting in the garage, so I could remove the battery tray for a new installation of 3 batteries. Can we stop worrying about SOC with 900 Ah? 🤣

Love this little charger, get one! I use it all the time in my garage and bring it on the road just in case. It can be switched from LA, AGM or LiFePO4, even 6V and repair settings for when a battery gets drained down completely (yes, the repair function works!): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W3QT226/ I have one of these wired to the tow vehicle so it can be charged without poppin' the hood: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004LWWNLC/?th=1 

No app for Battleborn with this kind of functionality? There certainly should be at the price point!

[Steve Morris]

23 hours ago, katanapilot said:

I'm sure all the Victron users know this, but there is a temperature input on the Smart Shunt, on the Multiplus II and four on the Cerbo GX.  I assume that information can also be fed to the phone app. 

As well as this battery mounted voltage/temperature sensor that works with the Victron app. My Lithonics batteries have their own internal temperature readout, but I like having something to compare.

https://a.co/d/2hewDTR

[Geronimo John]

On 12/11/2025 at 7:06 AM, CRM said:

there has to be a better way to protect a battery from thermal runaway.

I think the videos shows is a terminal sparking that results in higher and higher temperatures as a result of Ohm's law.  How?

As the loose mechanical connection gets hotter corrosion is inevetiable.  The corrosion increases the resistance of the connection, and slowly the connection resistance increases.  To the point that the battery is damaged.  I do not think that this is a cell related chemical reaction, but heat generation caused by the connection's resistance increasing and the resultanting increase in heat generations. This would continue until really bad things could happen ultimately leading to a melt down.     

If I understand this properly, the bolt goes thru a case plastic section and the copper terminal and to  two jamb nuts.  The jamb nuts are not coming loose, but the current has heated the case plastic section to the point that the bolt head, and likely a washer, moves part way through the case material as the temperature effects the plastic.  This in effect causes the connection to loosen. Loose connections  in electrical connections, especially high amperage potential connections, heat up.  As the process contnues, the tremendous short circuit potential of these batteries cause the connection to get really really hot.  

If my analysis is sound, then the Lithium cells for the vast majority of the batteries that have been lightly loaded (See my post above) could have their tops laser cut off and a redesigned termial installed.  Then fuse on a redesigned cover that structurally reinforces the terminal.  Basically a solid bolted internal termination to the terminal seperate from the structural support for the terminal.

GJ

On 12/12/2025 at 7:48 AM, fwunder said:

Does Dragonfly simply deny and keep going? Do they admit fault and declare bankruptcy and walk away? I can't imagine a recall of some 400,000 batteries.

In the past five years especially, DF has diversified into other related markets and their substantially has likely increased.  As such, they may be able to fund the repair of the batteries.  Hopefully also the shipping costs as well.   

[Cort]

On 12/11/2025 at 9:20 AM, Mike and Carol said:

I have three of these batteries and they are fine, going on 5 years.  Did this guy bother to check with BB before he posted this video and told everyone using the batteries to stop using them?  If this was the danger he exclaims why is BB not recalling them or at least sending out warnings?  With 400,000 batteries delivered I would think a major safety issue would already be addressed to avoid the inevitable legal issues.  What am I missing?  Mike

This is my question - which I posted on Will's Youtube channel - and didn't get a response. If these batteries are suddenly crap where are all the reports of fires? These are very popular batteries.  I looked for reports of fires, and I could find very little.  

I'm hoping that Prowse's batteries are anomalies. Those terminals are beyond loose.  (Are the loose terminals causing the problem or are they the result of it?) I have 2 BB's that have been bumped and jarred over 5 years of offroad use. The positive terminals are as tight as can be. I have another BB that is waiting to go in. I will definitely keep an eye on the terminals. 

These batteries have been recommended to me by just about everyone for years.  I may not buy another one - I've been edging toward cheaper ones as prices have dropped - but I'm not to give up the ones I have because of Prowse's video. 

While I can't rebut what Prowse is finding, the idea that Battleborn doesn't know how to build a safe battery seems incongruous to me,  given their long track record. 

I guess time will sort this out. 

 

Edited Friday at 12:14 AM by Cort

[Cort]

On 12/13/2025 at 8:06 AM, mountainoliver said:

I (unfortunately) have three Battle Born batteries that are now six years old. At this point considering the possibility of having to cover shipping costs basically from coast to coast and BB charging me a troubleshooting fee, I’d probably just dump these and go with a different brand. At the time I bought my batteries, BB were the gold standard in lithium batteries. Who knew! I did extensive research and chose them. So for now I’m going to watch them closely and so far I haven’t had the slightest issue with them. The other day I performed a load test with no issues with loading them to 122 amps for about 20 minutes and absolutely no heating issues at the posts. We’ll see.

My experience is similar to yours. I have two 100 AH Battleborn which I've bashed around on dirt roads for five years. Several times, something has gone wrong with the charging, and I emptied them out, and they've come right back.

While I haven't measured what kind of charge they're still holding, my sense is that they're doing just fine. (They're in far better shape than my 2 year old Interstate lead acid batteries which are fading badly). I've always been able to count on them. 

[CRM]

2 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

In the past five years especially, DF has diversified into other related markets and their substantially has likely increased.  As such, they may be able to fund the repair of the batteries.  Hopefully also the shipping costs as well.   

After taking a look at their financials, I wouldn't put much hope into that. And just today they had to do a 1 for 10 reverse stock split to get their share price over $1 to maintain their Nasdaq listing. Down 99.7 percent over the past 3 years. 

[Geronimo John]

One of the very spot on early-on statements of this forum was from Patriot:

Their first written response as shreadded in the YouTube response was characterized as "Gaslighting".  I think that was a bit harsh.  But it did not go over as well as I am sure DF wished. They would have been better served by stating that they have been made aware of the issue, and will commit the resources to determine the root cause.  And then appropriate remediation as appropriate.  They lost ground that can not easily be made up.  But the PR damage is done, and it needs to be repaired.

On 12/13/2025 at 6:06 AM, mountainoliver said:

The other day I performed a load test with no issues with loading them to 122 amps for about 20 minutes and absolutely no heating issues at the posts.

Above in this getting longer and longer thread, I postulated that the root cause of the heating, and the failure mechanism that resulted in the arching, was likely excessively amp draws on a per battery basis.  DF needs a new approach here is what I recommend:

 Test beyond what OTT MountainOliver did. DF should test their 100's with progressively higher loading to the point where the battery B+ terminal base temperature approaches what is safe for the design.

My SWAG is that it will tolerate up to 15 minutes at 200 Amps peak and likely 100 amps contineous to 10% SOC before the B+ temp is highenough to cause concern for the plastic deformation of the "plastic" structural support of of  the bolt and post.  As most of our OTT OE2 owners with the BB's have installed 3 BB's, that level would be fine for our occasional A/C on inverter with other loads such as the microwave also on line. 

Knowing the facts would basically would go a LONG WAY to ease the concerns on this thread for sure.  Not to mention a lot of other owners across their RV customer base that operate as we do.  This would also buy time to safely allow us to operate, while DF address others in higher need.  But still address ours in due time. 

Secondly, Present their findings to their customers.  If a redesign of the B+ post is needed, tell us.

Finally, DF should state that they will stand behind their ten year warranty.  And if they cannot do so that they will provide a prorated reimbursement of the cost we paid for them.

These actions would put DF ahead of the issue as so wisely stated by Patriot.

GJ

[Geronimo John]

1 hour ago, CRM said:

After taking a look at their financials, I wouldn't put much hope into that. And just today they had to do a 1 for 10 reverse stock split to get their share price over $1 to maintain their Nasdaq listing. Down 99.7 percent over the past 3 years. 

That is a bit concerning.  

GJ

[Geronimo John]

Doing some more research:

Bad News:  Apparently this problem was documented in 2021 in side by side comparison video.  They states that the Brand B was 90% there, and only needs $5 in parts.  Suggest you view this one.  This now could be a class action.  

Good News:  Looking at the video it is evident that the problem COULD BE FIXED.  

Question I have is did DF change the design of their batteries to fix the problem back then?  Or did they ignore the warning?

GJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt0joJc9HPo&t=294s

[CRM]

10 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Doing some more research:

Bad News:  Apparently this problem was documented in 2021 in side by side comparison video.  They states that the Brand B was 90% there, and only needs $5 in parts.  Suggest you view this one.  This now could be a class action.  

 

I remember watching this video a few years back but forgot about them calling out the terminal design. 

And is it me, or is the bolt on the Battleborn battery that he says is too small and the equivalent of a 6 awg cable look to be the same size used on the Lithionics battery main connections?

[John Dorrer]

I reached out to RV Electrical Guru, Mike Sokol on his Facebook site. He responded that he would dig into this and today he posted on his email newsletter.  He has asked people to respond if they had experienced any battery overheating.