New F-250 XLT Options Specific to Oliver Towing

[GregCA]

Hey all, new to forum.  Just placed deposit for a Legacy Elite II Platnum for a May delivery so now have to upgrade my Tacoma to something more capable.  Looking at custom ordering 7.3L 4x4 F-250 crewcab to build something specific to Oliver application.  Currently here what I'm looking at:

XLT Premium Package (adds 12" screen and 360 camara)

FX4 Off-Road Package 

3.73 Electronic Locking Axle Ratio

350 AMP Dual Alternator & Batteries

Anything else you seasoned towers would add? I know an F-250 may be overkill especialy here in Florida, but plan on hitting the Smokies and going out west.

Thanks

Greg

[BigTexas]

Welcome,  I remember the excitement when I put down my deposit knowing they were building MY Oliver.   Visit the forum often.  It will make owning your Oliver much more enjoyable. 

I'm not a Ford guy so I can't comment on specifics but your list looks impressive.  One comment regarding 4X4.  My last truck didn't have it and I didn't think I needed it due to more maintenance and something else to go wrong.  I bought my new (2024) truck off the lot so it was a compromise.  I've been surprised how often 4 wheel drive has been the difference between leaving a muddy camp spot and having to spend another day waiting for the ground to dry.  I'd recommend keeping that on your list.

 

[GregCA]

Thanks for the welcome.  Yes 4x4 is a must have even here in Florida. Seen plenty of full size  4x2s slip sliding at the boat ramp so figured I would need it with the Oliver even though I won't be using a boat ramp. 

[Mike and Carol]

40 minutes ago, BigTexas said:

I've been surprised how often 4 wheel drive has been the difference between leaving a muddy camp spot and having to spend another day waiting for the ground to dry.  I'd recommend keeping that on your list.

Welcome, Greg.  As you get ready for you trailer, keep tapping in to the expertise here on the forum.  We had a May pick up also, just in 2016.  It’s a good time of year weatherwise.

I agree with John on the 4X4.  Depending on how you like to camp, it can come in handy.  We’ve used ours.  Your future truck sounds pretty good to me.  There are some Ford drivers with the 7.3 gas engine towing their Elite II’s and they all seem to be happy.  Mike

[Shawna and Scott]

I remember when we placed our order and the excitement of all of it.  As Mike said the forum is full of info on about anything you can think of. The folks on here are great with their willingness to help. Don't be afraid to ask your questions.

We have an Elite ll (Hull1182) and we first used an F150 with the 3.5l Ecoboost to tow it. We towed it from Ohio to Maine and back, to Tennessee and back, to Alabama and back - you get the idea. The truck pulled just fine and we learned to live with the payload restrictions. As my truck got long in the teeth I ordered a 2026 F350 Tremor with the 7.3l gas engine. We just returned from three weeks in Maine and New Hampshire. Wow what a difference that made as far as towing. You couldn't tell it was there and made the entire travel experience much more pleasant.

I know the F350 is overkill and plenty of folks out there towing with half-tons and a few with SUVs but now we don't worry about payload and I just always wanted one - lol. The gas mileage towing was the same as our F150 on this years trip to Maine thru the White Mountains of New Hampshire.

 

 

[jd1923]

7 hours ago, GregCA said:

Just placed deposit for a Legacy Elite II Platinum for a May delivery...

Welcome Greg, very exciting! It's going to be a long wait for May to get here... 🤣

Great to be planning your tow vehicle, asking for input early!

I'm like the 1 in 1000 who lives in the mountains and tows with a 2WD truck. I'm not suggesting it but I do like the simplicity in maintenance, the weight is on the rears when towing. I enjoy the lower center-of-gravity when towing and the lower suspension does not require a painful process just to get into the driver's seat! Got out of the mud recently by lowering rear tire pressure to 30 PSI. I have gotten stuck twice (for an hour) in 3 years and 19K miles towing.

I noticed "Crew Cab" in your description. Do you need that? Maybe you have two big dogs but then fitting in the Oliver would be your issue! Meeting other Oliver owners at Quartzsite or at the Texas Rally, I noted how many Oliver Owners use that back seat for storage, some to the point of, "Oh, what a mess back there!"

Crew-Cab trucks often are matched to short beds and have less available GVWR (there's a lot of weight in 4WD and a crew cab truck). I prefer to keep our storage in the bed of our 8' long bed and keep our truck cab clean. There's only one dog, an induction cooktop and a pickleball bag in the rear of our cab, some shoes under the seats. We can take 4 out for dinner without too much trouble. We have the extended-cab with rear half door. I couldn't travel without the long bed. But I'm also in the minority here as you will find most have 4-door TVs with the short bed (except for some F350s)!

Edited Wednesday at 10:42 PM by jd1923

[GregCA]

10 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

Welcome Greg, very exciting! It's going to be a long wait for May to get here... 🤣

Great to be planning your tow vehicle, asking for input early!

I'm like the 1 in 1000 who lives in the mountains and tows with a 2WD truck. I'm not suggesting it but I do like the simplicity in maintenance, the weight is on the rears when towing. I enjoy the lower center-of-gravity when towing and the lower seat height does not require a painful process just to get into the driver's seat! Got out of the mud recently by lowering rear tire pressure to 30 PSI. I have gotten stuck twice (for an hour) in 3 years and 19K miles towing.

I noticed "Crew Cab" in your description. Do you need that? Maybe you have two big dogs but then fitting in the Oliver would be your issue! Meeting other Oliver owners at Quartzsite or at the Texas Rally, I noted how many Oliver Owners use that back seat for storage, some to the point of, "Oh, what a mess back there!"

Crew-Cab trucks often are matched to short beds and have less available GVWR (there's a lot of weight in 4WD and a crew cab truck). I prefer to keep our storage in the bed of our 8' long bed and keep our truck cab clean. There's only one dog, an induction cooktop and a pickleball bag in the rear of our cab, some shoes under the seats. We can take 4 out for dinner without too much trouble. We have the extended-cab with rear half door. I couldn't travel without the long bed. But I'm also in the minority here as you will find most have 4-door TVs with the short bed (except for those F350 types).7

Thanks for the tips.  Have two small dogs and a small parrot in a cage. If it wasn't for the small zoo I'm transporting, I may be able to get away with a smaller cab.  LoL. 4x2 would be nice for ease of MX, but also need it for some of the crappy sand filled boat ramps around here

[GregCA]

22 minutes ago, Shawna and Scott said:

I remember when we placed our order and the excitement of all of it.  As Mike said the forum is full of info on about anything you can think of. The folks on here are great with their willingness to help. Don't be afraid to ask your questions.

We have an Elite ll (Hull1182) and we first used an F150 with the 3.5l Ecoboost to tow it. We towed it from Ohio to Maine and back, to Tennessee and back, to Alabama and back - you get the idea. The truck pulled just fine and we learned to live with the payload restrictions. As my truck got long in the teeth I ordered a 2026 F350 Tremor with the 7.3l gas engine. We just returned from three weeks in Maine and New Hampshire. Wow what a difference that made as far as towing. You couldn't tell it was there and made the entire travel experience much more pleasant.

I know the F350 is overkill and plenty of folks out there towing with half-tons and a few with SUVs but now we don't worry about payload and I just always wanted one - lol. The gas mileage towing was the same as our F150 on this years trip to Maine thru the White Mountains of New Hampshire.

 

 

This will be fourth truck.  Had a Ranger, Ridgeline and Tacoma. Towed a Casita with the Rideline. I'm ready for some overkill at this point

[Rolind]

We also moved from a 2nd gen Tacoma to a F250 and have been very pleased. As you know there are a million threads about diesel vs gas, but we really like our diesel.  I think your driving style is important, we like to drive long distances per day and long segments between fuel stops and the extra range from the diesel is very important to us. Obviously diesel has some downsides as well, but we love ours.
The only other suggestion would be to take a long look at a F350. We occasionally pack heavy and I would like the extra payload cushion. I dismissed a 350 without even thinking about it but might consider one now.  The move up to a 350 isn’t that expensive, however depending on where you live licensing may be more expensive.

[jd1923]

7 hours ago, GregCA said:

350 AMP Dual Alternator & Batteries

This is an exceptional option! You could easily add the Victron Orion 50A or even the new 70A DC-DC charger with this 350A dual alternator!

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, Rolind said:

As you know there are a million threads about diesel vs gas, but we really like our diesel.

Me too! I would never want to descend a mountain road without an exhaust brake, never again.

But, if I could trade ours for a gasser, just for the month of October, we could afford the trip to The Rally! I’d have to trade it back upon return. Love our old TV!

[GregCA]

23 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

This is an exceptional option! You could easily add the Victron Orion 50A or even the new 70A DC-DC charger with this 350A dual alternator!

Yes, when I was researching I figured the single battery and standard 190 amp alternator would have strugled when connected to the trailer

Edited Wednesday at 10:57 PM by GregCA

[jd1923]

53 minutes ago, GregCA said:

Yes, when I was researching I figured the single battery and standard 190 amp alternator would have strugled when connected to the trailer

There shouldn't be any real struggle unless adding DC-DC charging. The trailer only pulls up to 12A when braking. Taillights etc. are negligible given LED lighting. There is the black wire on the 7-blade coupler which should be disconnected. Otherwise truck and trailer have mostly independent electrical systems. 

Given the standard alternator is 190A, the 350A dual on the same truck has net 160A free! The dual-battery HD alt upgrade option was first established for northern trucks to have enough battery power to operate a snowplow.

DC-DC charging is one of our favorite upgrades, hands-down! Say you install the new Victron 70A Orion (with your new setup I would for sure go 70A) and you net +60A actual. That means for every hour you're towing you're adding a 60 Ah charge back to your house batteries. Tow a 4-hour half-day and that's +240 Ah, wow! The Orion 70A will need some heavy gauge wiring and should get +40 Ah even at idle!

I posted this in another thread about electrical options earlier today. Also relevant here, something you may want to consider after getting your Oliver. OTT can do the trailer-side installation, but they don't work the truck side. Any auto accessory installer, a good truck shop, could work the full install, or DIY as many of us have! 

 

[GregCA]

12 hours ago, jd1923 said:

There shouldn't be any real struggle unless adding DC-DC charging. The trailer only pulls up to 12A when braking. Taillights etc. are negligible given LED lighting. There is the black wire on the 7-blade coupler which should be disconnected. Otherwise truck and trailer have mostly independent electrical systems. 

Given the standard alternator is 190A, the 350A dual on the same truck has net 160A free! The dual-battery HD alt upgrade option was first established for northern trucks to have enough battery power to operate a snowplow.

DC-DC charging is one of our favorite upgrades, hands-down! Say you install the new Victron 70A Orion (with your new setup I would for sure go 70A) and you net +60A actual. That means for every hour you're towing you're adding a 60 Ah charge back to your house batteries. Tow a 4-hour half-day and that's +240 Ah, wow! The Orion 70A will need some heavy gauge wiring and should get +40 Ah even at idle!

I posted this in another thread about electrical options earlier today. Also relevant here, something you may want to consider after getting your Oliver. OTT can do the trailer-side installation, but they don't work the truck side. Any auto accessory installer, a good truck shop, could work the full install, or DIY as many of us have! 

 

My trailer already has DC-DC available through the truck 7 pin connector, and that is why I thought it would be smart to upgrade the trucks' power output.  However, I have not looked into any detiails on this yet and I am new to solar/lithium world.  I was aircraft electrician in the Air Force back in the day so I think what you're getting at is upgrading the OEM DC-DC charger and installing larger gauge wiring in the TT & TV to handle more current to charge faster on the road?  

Edited 19 hours ago by GregCA

[jd1923]

7 hours ago, GregCA said:

My trailer already has DC-DC available through the truck 7 pin connector, and that is why I thought it would be smart to upgrade the trucks' power output.

Charging on the "7-pin connector" has come up now twice in two days! (see "Rich Solar" post).

Not sure why OTT would think to install a 20A DC-DC charger on the 12 AWG black (aux) wire of the 7-blade coupler. For years, they had been disconnecting that wire on lithium installations. I'm pretty sure 20A is too much current for 12 AWG wire over the roundtrip distance, truck alternator back to the trailer house batteries!

7 hours ago, GregCA said:

upgrading the OEM DC-DC charger and installing larger gauge wiring in the TT & TV to handle more current to charge faster on the road?

Yes, you are correct! 10A can run on 12 AWG, I believe for 20A charging 10 AWG is required (so the OTT DC-DC charger installation is truly unsafe)! Your delivery is next year. If it was me, I'd ask them to skip this "DC-DC charger" installation. Or have them do the trailer side of a proper DC-DC installation with dedicated wiring.

IMHO, the black/aux wire should be disconnected in all travel trailer installations, given the trailer has house batteries.

Most DC-DC installations run dedicated 4 AWG wire (or heavier) for a 50A charger. We have been averaging +40A on the road. And yes, I upgraded our truck alternator to handle the extra amperage. 

@Chuck and Beth, who already has the new DC-DC charger installed by OTT, has set theirs down to 10A to be safe. For us +10A charging is nowhere near enough. Say you have OTT's best Lithionics 640 Ah batteries installed. A 10A charge will give you +1.5% SOC for every hour towing. So 40A provides +6% SOC per hour. Wish we had the new 70A Orion but boy-oh-boy copper wire is about as expensive as diesel fuel is these days. 🤣

[Todd B]

We have had our F250 7.3 for a few years now. It has been great for towing. We are in the PNW area so are going up and down mountains all the time. I will not claim it is as good as a diesel, because it is not, but it has handled 8% grades well with downshifting of the 10 speed transmission. The extra payload has also been great as our bed is full and I try to not let our second row become an example of "Oh, what a mess back there!"  🙂 I would also recommend the 4x4. I like the extra alternator for DC-DC. We don't have either, and have not needed that level of quick charging. We are coming off 9 days off grid running inverter for starlink and laptops working all day and batteries are at 75% still (we have had good sun as well). After 9 days we need to hit FHU to reset tanks, do laundry, and top off batteries anyway. 

[GregCA]

3 minutes ago, Todd B said:

We have had our F250 7.3 for a few years now. It has been great for towing. We are in the PNW area so are going up and down mountains all the time. I will not claim it is as good as a diesel, because it is not, but it has handled 8% grades well with downshifting of the 10 speed transmission. The extra payload has also been great as our bed is full and I try to not let our second row become an example of "Oh, what a mess back there!"  🙂 I would also recommend the 4x4. I like the extra alternator for DC-DC. We don't have either, and have not needed that level of quick charging. We are coming off 9 days off grid running inverter for starlink and laptops working all day and batteries are at 75% still (we have had good sun as well). After 9 days we need to hit FHU to reset tanks, do laundry, and top off batteries anyway. 

Thanks for the input.  And yes diesel would be nice, but I can't justify the cost of ownership when towing a trailer this size

[GregCA]

1 hour ago, jd1923 said:

Charging on the "7-pin connector" has come up now twice in two days! (see "Rich Solar" post).

Not sure why OTT would think to install a 20A DC-DC charger on the 12 AWG black (aux) wire of the 7-blade coupler. For years, they had been disconnecting that wire on lithium installations. I'm pretty sure 20A is too much current for 12 AWG wire over the roundtrip distance, truck alternator back to the trailer house batteries!

Yes, you are correct! 10A can run on 12 AWG, I believe for 20A charging 10 AWG is required (so the OTT DC-DC charger installation is truly unsafe)! Your delivery is next year. If it was me, I'd ask them to skip this "DC-DC charger" installation. Or have them do the trailer side of a proper DC-DC installation with dedicated wiring.

IMHO, the black/aux wire should be disconnected in all travel trailer installations, given the trailer has house batteries.

Most DC-DC installations run dedicated 4 AWG wire (or heavier) for a 50A charger. We have been averaging +40A on the road. And yes, I upgraded our truck alternator to handle the extra amperage. 

@Chuck and Beth, who already has the new DC-DC charger installed by OTT, has set theirs down to 10A to be safe. For us +10A charging is nowhere near enough. Say you have OTT's best Lithionics 640 Ah batteries installed. A 10A charge will give you +1.5% SOC for every hour towing. So 40A provides +6% SOC per hour. Wish we had the new 70A Orion but boy-oh-boy copper wire is about as expensive as diesel fuel is these days. 🤣

Thanks for the info! Seems odd they would design an unsafe system, and they must have some margin.  At the very least the fuse would blow hopefully before any smoke. But this would lead to a bunch of service calls they would have to deal with.

 

Don't even own the trailer yet and thinking about mods already and I always wanted an excuse to get pair of hydraulic crimpers. But, before I get mod crazy, I'll wait to see how we camp first. How hard was it to run wires in the TT?  Is there a bulkhead where the trailer wiring goes into the TT to fish the wires or do you have to drill holes? 

Edited 12 hours ago by GregCA

[jd1923]

30 minutes ago, Todd B said:

I like the extra alternator for DC-DC. We don't have either, and have not needed that level of quick charging.

I fully agree until you want to run an efficient variable-speed A/C on inverter/batteries.

Not required most of the time in the PNW but most often in the SW.

With DC-DC charging, we can run the Chill Cube A/C while towing and SOC% will be the same as when we started our drive!

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, GregCA said:

Seems odd they would design an unsafe system, and they must have some margin.

I don't see any margin in fact they're below spec (see table). This table only goes to 600" which is 50 ft and roundtrip for DC-DC wiring from the battery bay in the Oliver to the starter battery in a full-size truck is closer to 80 ft. The tables are ultra conservative being concerned for voltage drop which is less of a concern in RV charging. But STILL! Note row 3 where 20A on 12 AWG wire is only good for a 120" or a 10 ft run. I went with 4 AWG wire for the 50A Orion on a cost basis, while some were warning go with 2 AWG. It is what it is and the 7-blade wiring is only 12 AWG.

2 hours ago, GregCA said:

Don't even own the trailer yet and thinking about mods already and I always wanted an excuse to get pair of hydraulic crimpers. But, before I get mod crazy, I'll wait to see how we camp first. How hard was it to run wires in the TT?  Is there a bulkhead where the trailer wiring goes into the TT to fish the wires or do you have to drill holes?

You'll fit right in here! 🤣 Got my hydraulic crimpers and cable cutter when I first got into this 2 years ago! (Used once on eBay, they only used a couple huge dies). You'll have a new hull and can order your options. So, you won't have the 20 +/- mods I've done, but perhaps a few regardless. 

Edited 9 hours ago by jd1923

[Galway Girl]

Article below includes design for dc/dc charger back in 2019-2021 the factory refused to even consider adding a dc/dc charger for customers.

 

 

As Jd stated we also used 4awg in the supply from truck back to the dc/dc unit.
 

I don’t understand how a 7 pin can possibly supply adequate power.  At the rally I’ll ask what magic they are using at the factory. 

 

https://4-ever-hitched.com/blog-articles/f/lithium-battery-upgrade?blogcategory=Electrical+Upgrades

craig. Hull 505 2019

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Galway Girl

[taylor.coyote]

We can recommend the F250 but you should take the time to calculate (really calculate/don't estimate) your payload needs BEFORE you purchase. In our case we have 4x4 short box 6.7 power stroke. Coming from a 1/2 ton, we assumed stepping up to a 3/4 ton would give us carefree payload.  After installing a roof rack system, bedside, truck-bed height shelf over the bedside,  A.R.E. cap, trailer hitch and full width mudflaps our usable payload is no longer carefree.  We are NOT MINIMALIST  and have lots of gear such as kayaks, camera gear, extra 30 gallon water tank for boon docking and a gas grill that taps into trailer propane are just for starters….  I've put the truck on the scales, we end up sucking up all the payload. The bottom line:  We have to manage how much we bring to stay within our payload.  Initially, I  turned to maintaining a spread sheet with the weights of people, dog and each piece of gear before heading to the scale. Fortunately we have a nearby logging truck scale we can use for free. Over time, I learned the combinations of gear without using the spreadsheet but do run to the scale before we head out on a long trip….  Likely the difference between the gas and diesel  will add enough payload that the F250 will do the job.  

The F250 is not overkill and you may want the F350.

You are buying an amazing trailer. We wish you the best of luck.

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by taylor.coyote

[taylor.coyote]

Assuming you will put a cap on your truck, you might consider a bedslide. No more getting on your knees fishing/searching for stuff in the back of the truck bed. I would pay double the price we paid if that is what it cost to have one. Best purchase we made outfitting the truck….  lots of different options. If you intend to put a shelf over the bedslide, your cap needs side access to the shelf. You should also understand the different load capacities of the sides and how it can impact how tall they are above the truck bed to ensure gear clearance under the shelf. I have 17.5" between the top of the bedslide and the bottom of the shelf, this clearance works well for us.  if you want, I can send pics to give you ideas 

 

[DavePhelps]

Don't forget that diesel engines and their ancillary equipment are much heavier than gas engines. That extra weight reduces your payload.
With two exact trucks, one diesel and one gas, the gas truck will have around 800 +/- pounds more payload than the diesel.. Which for me personally, if payload was an issue, I would purchase a one ton diesel and not a 3/4 ton. Like Taylor.Coyote said, carefully assess your payload requirements! I must say I'm loving my gas 3/4 ton GMC. Just came down Cabbage Hill out of Pendleton, OR (I84), a six mile 6% grade, and didn't use the brakes once. I have the E1 however. 

Dave

[jd1923]

5 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

Assuming you will put a cap on your truck, you might consider a bedslide.

5 hours ago, DavePhelps said:

With two exact trucks, one diesel and one gas, the gas truck will have around 800 +/- pounds more payload than the diesel.

Taylor and Dave are exactly right. So how do we get away with a 2500 diesel with only 8800 GVWR?

We don't have a cap. I don't want to drive a truck with a cap again (after 18 year with previous truck). Then since we don't have a cap we don't need a slide. Cap and slide could be 500 LBS, more on a long bed. We ALWAYS carry a FULL 35-gal fresh water tank in the bed (300 LBS). My truck toolbox, who knows what it weighs now full, but it has extra hubs for both truck and trailer and other parts, tools to do most roadside repairs (no maintenance stuff, I do that at home). I can change a hub, even press a new axle bearing with tools always in the TV.

Check with our friend Steve who has the tools on board to do anything Oliver, almost anywhere! Best wishes @ScubaRx!

6 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

We can recommend the F250 but you should take the time to calculate (really calculate/don't estimate) your payload needs BEFORE you purchase.

I like this statement and I'm an engineer who has actually taught statistics. I forget where Dave lives, but Taylor lives in that quiet part of CA near OR and I believe it rains a LOT and has that salt ocean air! He must have a cap. I love the fact that we don't need one. Yeah, sometimes I worry about theft, but try to keep my head up above those kind of thoughts since we left the west-side of Chicago 32 years ago!

I LOVE an open truck bed, makes me feel like a kid again with a first truck, just pile up the chairs, break camp in minutes, reach in and grab anything, it's easy! But if you travel in rain a lot an open bed would be a PITA! When we see rain is coming all we do is put our two camp chairs in the truck (if we're in the Oliver), or in the Oliver when towing. The toolboxes are waterproof, the fridge is covered, and the rest of the stuff will get wet whether in the bed or at the campsite.

The extra weight of the Cummins is likely equal to the cap and slide in a long-bed truck. And 2WD over 4WD saves 100s of LBS! Except for body height, 4WD would be a plus! But what a pain to repair! I did the starter motor in a 4WD 4Runner but first had to remove the front driveshaft to do so. 

We're certainly not light packers but I still have over 500 LBS available capacity when fully loaded (in both the TV and TT). No kayaks for us, but that little Weber grill is not enough, we have the dual-burner Napoleon, much heavier. We have lots of cooking equipment, pressure cookers and more, can cook over our fire ring with multiple attachments. Then there's a truck bed Dometic CFX5 45L fridge full of water and meats, etc.

A diesel truck is more expensive, but our older 2WD Dodge Cummins was actually 20% of what the same truck, 4WD brand new would have cost. Diesel fuel prices today are worse than ever, diesel now being over $6 and $2 more than regular gas per gallon! I still MUST have the exhaust brake, just drive one down a hill and you'll know. 

Greg from CA, this is just a bunch of my ramblin's, things think about, consider or dismiss. Like Taylor wrote, "Calculate." Start a spreadsheet and keep working it. You have loads of time, think long on what you want, so don't rush the order! 😎

Edited 2 hours ago by jd1923