Grade your current tow vehicle

[John E Davies]

I thought it might be interesting to grade your own TV, along with any details about why.... Post basic mechanical details of your TV, plus the weight of your trailer if you know it. The grade is for towing an OLIVER, preferably in difficult conditions, not for other types of driving. Also post if you recommend the vehicle to a general Oliver buyer.

2013 Land Cruiser 5.7, 6 speed (two gears are overdrive and not usable in towing), 3.90 axles, 33" LT tires, rear airbags, 130K miles. 5730 pounds curb weight, 8300 pounds tow rating, 850 pounds max tongue (dead weight or equalizing hitch).

Oliver LEII about 6000 pounds. Tongue weight 500 pounds. Air pressure 35 psi. Andersen hitch. TV rear airbags set to 12 psi for leveling.

Grade C. Poor mpgs (10-12 towing, 16 to 17 empty), poor range (25 gallon tank), short wheelbase requires Andersen hitch for stability, not enough gears. Struggles on steep, high mountain passes (partly this is due to "Plus 2" tire sizing). Lack of cargo space and payload.

Other than that I absolutely love everything about it, but I put up with the minuses so I can Explore More off pavement and in the mountains. If I installed a used set of Tundra 4.30 ring and pinion gear sets (about $2000, giving an 11% increase in torque), that would definitely solve the performance issue, plus maybe increase the fuel economy a little. If I towed an Elite, I would have no worries, I could dump the WD hitch, and the grade would probably change to a B.

Recommended? NO.

Please post your score. BTW, is there any way to post a Poll in this forum?

John Davies
Spokane WA

 

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by John E Davies

[BackofBeyond]

2018 GMC 2500 4 wd,  Duramax, stock. 14-18 mpg towing, up to 21 unloaded. 

Leer top, storage space is not an issue. Nor is payload or GVW, or towing capacity. Take what you want, fill it to the brim, and GO. 

Oliver EII,  about 6500 pounds max, (Full water, propane, groceries, etc.,) truck caries about 300 lbs. of camping related extras,  Kitchen sink stays home. .I think..

No need for WDH, the Oliver tows like it not there at every speed, any grade, and the best aspect is getting from here to there is just comfortable and easy as can be - amazing frankly.  Mountains, plains, hot, cold, just put some diesel and some DEF in it  and go, no worries. 

Other than initial purchase price,  towing expense are in line with my former gas truck, but with so much better performance. 

I am very happy with my TV choice. Grade A with honors..

27,000 miles to date - 15K of towing. 

Next.

[jo79RI]

Did you get the Anderson tow package?

 

[Trainman]

I grade my 2019 Ram 1500 4X4 excellent for towing my Oliver Elite II, description of vehicle below. I will say here I'm pretty much an upgrade buyer, that is I wouldn't  let money make my decision for me and if I though I needed the 2500 for this setup, that's what I would have gotten. I personally think many guys purchase their tow vehicle just because the bigger vehicle gives them bragging rites in the camping grounds and they like being seem that way. I'm not going to say here that I haven't done the same thing at other times in my life, so I know where some of you are coming from. Our main decision was the better ride with the 1500 over the 2500 and so far it was the better choice for us. Yes, we use the Anderson and personally I didn't really notice much difference with or without it, but it was required to meet the vehicle towing ratings per Ram. 

trainman

[Galway Girl]

Trailer:  Elite II = Loaded trailer wt.  6400 lbs.
Tongue Wt: 740 LB  => requires an Anderson Wt. Dist. Hitch

Tow Vehicle: 2018 F150 4WD Super Crew with 3.5 EB & 3.55 rear end
Mods:  Have a canopy and installed SUMO Springs for overload/squat reduction and they work.

 

Tow Experience:  Grade B+   ( I'm sure a 3/4 ton would be an A+)
Feels stable in all but the most extreme conditions.
3.5 Ecoboost has PLENTY of power due to turbo...but ....it has a turbo which can be a big ticket repair in future.

Mileage: 
Towing from Tennessee to Everett (2500 miles) and in Western Washington have averaged 11 mpg overall.
In mountains typically got about 6-9 MPG, on Flats as high as 14 mpg.
Without the trailer but loaded with gear on the way out to pickup we got 20+ MPG on the highway.

Most extreme towing scenario:
High wind gusts (50MPH) through I-90 passes in Montana last summer.  
Felt a sideways wiggles and felt concerned for about 3 seconds, but the hitch + towing controls of F150 kicked in quickly.
I remember thinking...I wish the truck was heavier than the trailer during that situation.

Truck Stats:
GVWR = 7000 lbs.  Actual Curb Wt: 5200 lbs. Cargo Capacity:  Calculated  GVWR-Curb 1800 lbs
Door Sticker Cargo Capacity:  1557 lbs door sticker for tire rating.
Hitch:   F150 Factory Installed Receiver/Hitch as rated below:
     with Weight Dist. Hitch.....        Max Gross Trailer WT Rating 12,200lbs   has 1220lb Max Tongue Wt.
     without Weight Dist. Hitch.....  Max Gross Trailer WT Rating   5,000 lbs . has 500 lb Max Tongue Wt.

Hope this is a helpful post.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by ctshort09

[underdug]

I agree with BackofBeyond.

I tow with a 2019 Duramax with a trifold tonneau cover.  I carry about 600 lbs of camping gear and tools in the back along with a 3000 watt generator.

I did not opt for the Anderson hitch as it is not needed with this truck. The Ollie elite 11 pulls like it is not there and the mileage is 15 to 16 on the highway (70MPH), 22 to 24 with out hauling. I don't know the exact weights but would guess just north of 500 pound tongue weight and somewhere near 6000 loaded.

The item I found I like most about the Duramax after a long stint out west was the exhaust brake. When it comes to mountain driving i found this to be indispensable.

Having said this I may not have gone to a 2500HD for the Ollie. I also tow a heaver boat with a T top (wind catcher) where it was needed. I would however not give up the security of towing the Ollie now that I have done it.

Give it an A+.

Underdug 

[BackofBeyond]

On 12/15/2019 at 6:32 PM, jo79RI said:

Did you get the Anderson tow package?

 

I ordered one with my Ollie initially - as I was towing with a 2004 1/2 ton GMC - I really loved the truck  - put 150K on it, and was still a great truck - but towing the Ollie was just a little out its comfort range, so I sold it and looked for a more appropriate TV. I also had a Ford Transit with the eco boost - a great engine - but the overall vehicle was not really what I wanted for towing. I was certain the Ford F250 was my next truck, but after spending time in the GMC it was an easy choice  - the GMC got the  nod.  The Anderson doesn't really do much on the 2500, its a little more planted while towing, but not worth the trouble, it sits in a bucket in the garage, I do use the ball/receiver assembly, why spend additional $$.  

As for bragging rights - I could give a rip, don't know anybody that does.  My TV does what I want, is comfortable, and more importantly inspires confidence going down the road. Weird - the Ford had a rougher ride, the GMC was much nicer, as good as any of the 1/2 tons I sampled, yet a payload of 2200#.  As was mentioned the exhaust brake is very nice to have - and  we like the mountains - so..   I also transport a tractor, construction materials, farm equipment, etc. from time to time, and the 2500 just does the heavy lifting much better. 

If I was  to really look for reasons to complain - 1. DEF tank fill is in an inconvenient location (fixed in 2020), and - well that's about it.  When I win the lottery I'm getting a 2021 GMC 2500. well maybe not.... 

RB

 

[JPatrickJ]

We're looking at the Ollie Elite II.  We have a 2007 GMC Sierra 1500 Classic with a 4.8L V8.  It's paid for (!), and in very good condition for it's age.  

It would be great to have a 3/4 ton pickup, but at this point it's either a new truck and no Ollie, or the Sierra and an Ollie II.  The big question is...will the Sierra handle the Ollie II?  This would be our only tow vehicle for the foreseeable future as we are close to retirement.

Thoughts?

 

[John E Davies]

35 minutes ago, JPatrickJ said:

We're looking at the Ollie Elite II.  We have a 2007 GMC Sierra 1500 Classic with a 4.8L V8.  It's paid for (!), and in very good condition for it's age.  

It would be great to have a 3/4 ton pickup, but at this point it's either a new truck and no Ollie, or the Sierra and an Ollie II.  The big question is...will the Sierra handle the Ollie II?  This would be our only tow vehicle for the foreseeable future as we are close to retirement.

You need to post the specs, there is no way to tell otherwise. Tow rating, payload, axle ratio, tow package, etc...? This might help. https://www.trailerlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Trailer-Life-Towing-Guide-2007.pdf ... 

Some of the 4.8 liter trucks had tow rating as low as 4700 pounds, which is not even enough for an Elite.

Sad to say, but older pickups with small low powered engines just don’t tow very well... i am guessing it would be barely satisfactory (in Florida), until it isn’t. Like facing a 40 mph headwind, or a 12% grade and 100 degree heat. There is no reason at all to buy a brand new tow vehicle, you could replace it with a nice used HD truck and not be worried at all.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited December 17, 2019 by John E Davies

[JPatrickJ]

Sorry, yes, it's a 4x4 Ext Cab standard bed, 4.8 L V8.  I need to confirm the axle ratio, but it's somewhere between 6700-7700 lbs towing, 670 to 770 tongue load.  The low tow rating vehicles are those with the 4.3L V6's.

Yes, I could replace it with a used HD truck, but I suspect it would be more expensive than a straight swap.  I would prefer it if the one I have will work.  I think it will based on everything I've read and calculated, but there's always that bit of uncertainty.  I don't want to be stuck with a grossly under powered TV.  That's one of the main reasons I'm even considering the Oliver.  

Patrick

[SeaDawg]

Were it me, I'd  be tempted to give it a tour with the 4.8, if that's what you have. You know your truck. And you know your maintenance.  All that is a big factor.

I'm a strange bird, probably.  Love my 2005 Silverado,  looking forward to newer technology in a few years with the Tesla truck. In the meantime,  we usually tow with a 2008 Ram hemi. 5.7. It's a lovely tow with an elite 1, as excess power means the trailer isn't really felt. Just slightly more frequent gas stops, with a 34 gallon tank.We love the nimble factor of the older Silverado,  but we often need 4 x 4, where we camp, so Ram, it is.

Don't take the rock collection with you. 🤣 I'm showing 7900 lbs towing with some of the 2007 series. What are your specs, with your current vehicle?

 

[OCJohn]

We’ve got a 2004 Ford Excursion 6.0 diesel that I just can’t quit on. It’s a 2wd so the ride is pretty tame. It’s got a tow rating of 11,000lbs, 600+ mile range (44 gallon tank with no DEF...) and enough torque to stop the rotation of the earth. I added a rear sway bar which improved the handling a lot. Also upgraded to Hawk LTS brake pads. Otherwise it’s dead stock. 

A-* (because it’s so old it doesn’t have Apple CarPlay)
 

*not Ollie owners, we tow a Hymer (but this forum is the BEST for tech posts)

Edited December 18, 2019 by OCJohn

[ahattar]

On 12/16/2019 at 12:34 PM, underdug said:

I agree with BackofBeyond.

I tow with a 2019 Duramax with a trifold tonneau cover.  I carry about 600 lbs of camping gear and tools in the back along with a 3000 watt generator.

I did not opt for the Anderson hitch as it is not needed with this truck. The Ollie elite 11 pulls like it is not there and the mileage is 15 to 16 on the highway (70MPH), 22 to 24 with out hauling. I don't know the exact weights but would guess just north of 500 pound tongue weight and somewhere near 6000 loaded.

The item I found I like most about the Duramax after a long stint out west was the exhaust brake. When it comes to mountain driving i found this to be indispensable.

Having said this I may not have gone to a 2500HD for the Ollie. I also tow a heaver boat with a T top (wind catcher) where it was needed. I would however not give up the security of towing the Ollie now that I have done it.

Give it an A+.

Underdug 

22-24, really?  My brother has a 2017 and it gets 16mpg in the most perfect conditions.  What has changed to get 3/4 tons in the 20's?

[Landrover]

1 hour ago, ahattar said:

22-24, really?  My brother has a 2017 and it gets 16mpg in the most perfect conditions.  What has changed to get 3/4 tons in the 20's?

My 2017 Duramax  has those ranges 15mpg towing and 22 mpg non towing. No performance upgrades.

[John E Davies]

3 hours ago, ahattar said:

22-24, really?  My brother has a 2017 and it gets 16mpg in the most perfect conditions.  What has changed to get 3/4 tons in the 20's?

16 mpg in a modern diesel HD pickup, unloaded at 60 mph would make me convinced that there is a mechanical problem, if it is completely stock (no big tires or lift). I used to get 22 mpg at times in my old Cummins 5.9 but it had no emissions. 20 mpg was fairly routine. You got to keep the pedal off the floor to get good numbers on the highway.

Your friend can install a tuner and get much better drive-ability. He also needs a canopy or tonneau cover.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited December 18, 2019 by John E Davies

[ahattar]

Sorry guys, I'm not buying what your selling.  I assume you're actually doing the math not just looking at the computer.  I drove his truck which has no mechanical issues with a bed cover at 65mph for several days, never better than 16 mpg.  Maybe at 50mph I could get more.  I had a 2012 f450 which is heavier and a dually but still never better than 16.  I now have a 2016 ecodiesel.  It gets 22 if I keep it under 65 and will jump to 25 on long stretches in Idaho at 50mph.  I live in Montana where the driving conditions are perfect for a diesel, no cities or traffic.  

[ahattar]

In a quick search, the norm lines up with my experience.  What are you guys doing different than everyone else......

https://www.valleychevy.com/2018-chevy-silverado-2500hd-fuel-efficiency-gas-consumption/

[BackofBeyond]

3 hours ago, ahattar said:

Sorry guys, I'm not buying what your selling.  I assume you're actually doing the math not just looking at the computer.  I drove his truck which has no mechanical issues with a bed cover at 65mph for several days, never better than 16 mpg.  Maybe at 50mph I could get more.  I had a 2012 f450 which is heavier and a dually but still never better than 16.  I now have a 2016 ecodiesel.  It gets 22 if I keep it under 65 and will jump to 25 on long stretches in Idaho at 50mph.  I live in Montana where the driving conditions are perfect for a diesel, no cities or traffic.  

Not selling. Unloaded (no Ollie) on the hwy,  70 mph, figured by hand , I get on average 20 + mpg. Around town, stop go - 15-18, just depends, In the end my 2500 GMC does cost me more per mile than my old gas engine GMC, but for the performance and comfort, I'm satisfied. 

Towing, on the big roads - 14-16, as high as 18, as low as 11. It all depends on grades, headwinds, time spent sitting, and if my wife is driving. I cruise at 70 , her, a little higher. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by BackofBeyond

[BackofBeyond]

On 12/17/2019 at 1:48 PM, JPatrickJ said:

We're looking at the Ollie Elite II.  We have a 2007 GMC Sierra 1500 Classic with a 4.8L V8.  It's paid for (!), and in very good condition for it's age.  

It would be great to have a 3/4 ton pickup, but at this point it's either a new truck and no Ollie, or the Sierra and an Ollie II.  The big question is...will the Sierra handle the Ollie II?  This would be our only tow vehicle for the foreseeable future as we are close to retirement.

Thoughts?

 

My experience - I truly hoped my 2004 GMC 1/2 ton 5.7L  would handle the Oliver EII.  If I were to limit our travels to flat terrain, short excursions, the Little GMC would have be OK, just ok.  Steep grades drove way to much shifting and high rev situations, as well as towing was on the bubble of the tow and payload specifications.  I used the Anderson WDH - and  it made a difference in the handling department.

I upgrade to a 2018 GMC 2500 Duramax diesel - yea its a big expense, and the performance was astoundingly better - not jut in stability, power, passing ability, payload, etc., but in cruising comfort. Towing for hours was a job, it now just a cruise down the boulevard.

I think, looking for a well maintained pre owned 3/4 ton my be a good choice, not to mention some have great experiences with modern 1/2 ton vehicles. Given my experience, the HD vehicles are just more capable. 

Try your current one out, you may be perfectly happy. Good luck and have a great time with your new Oliver.

[John E Davies]

I could easily get 20 mpg on long open back country highways at 60 mph, without trying hard. That number dropped as speed went up. 2006 Ram 3500 Quad Cab SB 4WD, 5.9 Cummins, Leer canopy, 33" tires, 4.10 gears. Pre-emissions though, that will make a difference for later trucks if they regen often, which they may do if not under a load.... a tuner can help with this.

BTW there can be mechanical problems that affect fuel economy that are not obvious, dirty injectors for example. I always use this fuel treatment, in all my vehicles and small engines. It is not snake oil and it can make any truck run better, especially a diesel. It is absolute black magic for the Power Stroke 7.3 and 6.0 with their trouble-prone garbage HEUI injectors. ... https://www.archoil.com/products/ar6200-fuel-treatment

AR6200 addresses issues associated with poor quality diesel, including the accumulation of performance-robbing soot, to restore and maintain vehicle performance. AR6200 increases cetane and many users will also notice an increase in fuel economy (MPG). The DPF will be kept clean, resulting in less frequent regens. Turbo and emissions systems will also be kept free from excessive soot.

I never drove the Ram without using that treatment, maybe that is what worked for me. Try it yourself and report back in six months.

BTW, you did say under perfect conditions, so I assume we aren't talking about regular daily numbers, which is what the EPA numbers reflect.

BTW also, I would rather this thread not dissolve into a general chat - can we try to keep it a little more closely on subject? Some questions really should have their own thread. 

Thanks.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by John E Davies

[ahattar]

I guess I'll have to take your words for it, but it's never been my experience or anyone I know other than on a 5.9.

Regular driving for me is hwy 90% and 10% town

[JPatrickJ]

2 hours ago, BackofBeyond said:

My experience - I truly hoped my 2004 GMC 1/2 ton 5.7L  would handle the Oliver EII.  If I were to limit our travels to flat terrain, short excursions, the Little GMC would have be OK, just ok.  Steep grades drove way to much shifting and high rev situations, as well as towing was on the bubble of the tow and payload specifications.  I used the Anderson WDH - and  it made a difference in the handling department.

I upgrade to a 2018 GMC 2500 Duramax diesel - yea its a big expense, and the performance was astoundingly better - not jut in stability, power, passing ability, payload, etc., but in cruising comfort. Towing for hours was a job, it now just a cruise down the boulevard.

I think, looking for a well maintained pre owned 3/4 ton my be a good choice, not to mention some have great experiences with modern 1/2 ton vehicles. Given my experience, the HD vehicles are just more capable. 

Try your current one out, you may be perfectly happy. Good luck and have a great time with your new Oliver.

Hi BOB, Thanks for your comments.  I get what you're saying.  Unfortunately, I do not have the luxury of a truck payment at present, so I may have to suffer through a little bit of inconvenience for a while.  Or just wait, and that's okay too.

 

Thanks again!

[geO]

I got a 2006 F250 6.0 PSD and love the extra room the 8' bed offers. I averaged 13.5 mph from AL to AZ traveling 65-70. I do use a SCT tuner mainly for reading gages. I keep my EGTs under 1200 no matter what. Each tank of diesel gets cetane added. https://k-mansparts.com/motorcraft-diesel-cetane-booster-performance-improver-pm-22-a-detail.htm Every oil change I add Archoil friction modifier. https://archoil.powerstrokehelp.com/products/archoil-ar9100-friction-modifier

[Landrover]

I got my 2017 Chevy duramax  highcountry  for one main reason, I like it.  Specs aren’t that important to me. I do look at them. My decision is base on, am I comfortable in it and do I truly like it. I guess my expectations are simple. It’s worked best for me for many years.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Landrover

[Mingy]

I have a 2007 F250 crew cab longbed with a V-10.  38 gallon gas tank gives me a highway range, with safety margin, of 300+ miles, on flatlands.  No payload worries even though I tend to travel heavy.  Handles well.  More than adequate power and torque.  5R110 tranny is sound and has been reliable.  The engine is reliable and basic maintenance is easy, parts are readily available.

Highly recommend this set up based on my experience so far.

Yes, I know a diesel has braking advantages, more power, better mileage.  Also sharply increased up front costs, and it costs more to maintain. 

That difference, will pay for a lot of gas.    

I would like better brakes, though mine are more than adequate for my driving style and the trips that I have taken.

But that's it.