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We had our bath window replaced last year by Oliver because the seal on the lower sash had failed.  Not covered by warranty, btw, which is ridiculous.  But Oliver used a silicone sealant vs what they originally used, and over the past year it's yellowed horribly - looks absolutely awful.

So is this the stuff they're using on new trailers now?  I heard they switched to silicone.  If so, this is a terrible mistake.  And the silicone on its own is awful - I'm going to have a miserable time cleaning this stuff off and redoing it.

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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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Overland,

It looks like the caulk was either put on to thin and the butyl tape used to seal the window discolored the caulk or there isn’t any caulk in the first place.

I noticed the same problem around the rear window.  When I went to remove what I thought was caulk ended up being yellowed butyl.

You may want to try removing some of it with a plastic razor blade to be sure what the issue is.

Andrew

 

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Andrew, Carianne and Buffy | San Diego, CA


2019 Legacy Elite II Hull #468 "California Burrito" | 2018 BMW x5 35d 

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I agree with Andrew. Bet they didn't use silicone at all.  Try a little mineral spirits on a rag and see if if softens and wipes off. If so, dig as much out as you can with plastic blade or orange stick, wipe it clean with the spirits, and silicone the groove after it drys good.

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Btw I just replaced mine for the same reason. The original (2018) window was installed with double stick foam tape and the gap/joint around was sealed with silicone. I heard they had switched to the butyl sealant instead of the foam tape but assumed silicone was then applied to finish the job.

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That looks awful!

I know some sealants don't like butyl. I'd love to know what they used, so that I  never buy any. We'll probably never know, though.

My best guess, someone grabbed a gun loaded with an interior bathroom caulk, without uv protection.  3m 4200 will turn yellow quickly, because it has no uv. Hope it's not that, as it's much harder to remove than silicone.

I don't think we've ever used a white butyl (just grey), so I  can't speak from personal experience, there, either.

I saw a post on Facebook about the silicone Oliver is currently using. I'll see if I  find any complaints elsewhere about yellowing.

I'm really sorry for you. It's very noticeable,  and unattractive. 

Sherry

 

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2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12
 

 

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Posted (edited)

It's definitely silicone based.  And while I'm leaning toward it being stained rather than UV damage, the staining appears to be on the outside rather than being absorbed from underneath.  The coloration is heaviest in crevices, which is the opposite of what you'd think for UV damage.  So I'm thinking something environmental, like tannins from leaves or something.  No idea really, since it's been covered.  Maybe even something from the soap I cleaned it with last time reacted with it?  

Getting it off isn't as hard as I'd thought, but I need something to clean off the silicone residue before I recaulk.  Any suggestions?

IMG_0753.thumb.jpeg.b44ffb62fc9f432c6712ae16ba367b67.jpeg

Edited by Overland

Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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Overland,

I used a plastic razor blade, denatured alcohol and good old elbow grease.

It took some time but cleaned up well.

Andrew

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Andrew, Carianne and Buffy | San Diego, CA


2019 Legacy Elite II Hull #468 "California Burrito" | 2018 BMW x5 35d 

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Posted (edited)

Practical sailor recommends a product called ReMov, which isn't likely in your garage. (Not in mine, either.) After getting everything off that I could mechanically, I'd try mineral spirits or GoopOff on any bits remaining, then wipe it down again with mineral spirits or Goopoff, followed by denatured alcohol. Silicone loves to get down into the pores. 

I've heard of using kerosene in place of mineral spirits, but we don't typically have that around either.

Edited by SeaDawg
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2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12
 

 

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I might have used goo gone, rather than goopoff. I keep both around. 

I keep looking at your photos,  and I  find it hard to believe that that could be tannin. It looks too even and uniform.  I'd  still guess chemical reaction, or uv, or even more likely, just a bad batch of sealant. Was it clear, or white, originally?

It does look shiny like silicone, though perhaps not 100 per cent silicone? 

 

 

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2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12
 

 

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Posted (edited)

It was white. At first glance and in the photos it looks like it’s clear, with the darker areas where it’s thickest, but in actuality it’s opaque and the staining is just heaviest in the corner. It’s more evident when you peel off a bit. 

Edited by Overland

Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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On 6/16/2020 at 3:36 PM, SeaDawg said:

FYI, This is what someone on fb posted as current sealant used by Oliver, who had spoken to Richie.

https://www.americansealantsinc.com/asi-335-neutral-cure-silicone-sealantadhesive/

Sherry

Specs don't say it bonds to fiberglass.  Is that a problem?

Ray and Susan Huff

Elite II Twin "Pearl" - Hull#699; taking delivery December 7, 2020

2013 F350 3.2l diesel Super Duty 4x4 long bed crew cab

2017 Leisure Travel Van Unity Twin Bed (sold)

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Not in the general description but if you download the data sheet, it is recommended for fiberglass.

 

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2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12
 

 

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Posted (edited)

Since I had to redo the caulking on this one window, I figured that I'd go ahead and do the rest.  Of course, like most of my projects, this one got delayed right after I got all of the old caulk cleaned off from everything.  Two interesting things have come up - one, on two windows, when I scraped off the caulk from the bottom of the frame, a good bit of trapped water leaked out.  Not just a few drips, but a steady stream for a good 30 seconds or so.  Secondly, we've had a few gully washers come through and since I haven't recaulked, I've expected both times to have to mop up water on the inside, but so far, nothing - not even a drip, even between the hulls.

Soooo...I'm wondering if caulking the windows is a belt and suspenders situation, since the windows also seem to have a black bituthene type sealant between the frame and the fiberglass.  And if so, might the caulk actually potentially cause problems, holding water that gets trapped from clogged weep holes - at least that's the only place I can figure the trapped water came from.  I don't really know how these windows are put together though, so I can't tell for sure.

Thoughts?  

Another question, while pondering that - I'm wondering the same about the caulk around both the water heater and furnace.  There's no reference in the manuals about caulking these on installation, and with the truma, at least, the door itself provides ample opportunity for water to get in, so caulking the frame doesn't seem to do much.  Can't tell with the furnace.  So again, I'm wondering if the caulk is really necessary.  

Edited by Overland
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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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1 hour ago, Overland said:

Since I had to redo the caulking on this one window, I figured that I'd go ahead and do the rest.  Of course, like most of my projects, this one got delayed right after I got all of the old caulk cleaned off from everything.  Two interesting things have come up - one, on two windows, when I scraped off the caulk from the bottom of the frame, a good bit of trapped water leaked out.  Not just a few drips, but a steady stream for a good 30 seconds or so.  Secondly, we've had a few gully washers come through and since I haven't recaulked, I've expected both times to have to mop up water on the inside, but so far, nothing - not even a drip, even between the hulls.

Soooo...I'm wondering if caulking the windows is a belt and suspenders situation, since the windows also seem to have a black bituthene type sealant between the frame and the fiberglass.  And if so, might the caulk actually potentially cause problems, holding water that gets trapped from clogged weep holes - at least that's the only place I can figure the trapped water came from.  I don't really know how these windows are put together though, so I can't tell for sure.

Thoughts?  

Another question, while pondering that - I'm wondering the same about the caulk around both the water heater and furnace.  There's no reference in the manuals about caulking these on installation, and with the truma, at least, the door itself provides ample opportunity for water to get in, so caulking the frame doesn't seem to do much.  Can't tell with the furnace.  So again, I'm wondering if the caulk is really necessary.  

Overland 

maybe if you Decide to re caulk the widow skip a space or two at the bottom then see if you still get water from the window frame.

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Not a bad idea.  I was thinking about it just now and wondering if dust intrusion isn't as much or more of an issue than water.  I haven't had a problem with dust so far; but a few others have, and that's not a club that I'm eager to join.

Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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It sounds like the water was resting between the butyl sealant and the silicone and it had to be escaping somehow before you breached the dam.  I’m guessing that one scenario that has not happened since you removed the silicone is wind driven water.  Such as driving 60 mph in the rain.  You might be able to simulate that in your driveway with a hose and a leaf blower.

So which sealant did you decide to use and can you explain your MOP for removing the existing silicone/sealant and prepping the area for the new silicone/sealant.

And following up on Landrover's suggestion of leaving a leak point or two, maybe something like a mini straw or plastic coffee stirring straw would work.

Mossey

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Mike and Krunch   Lutz, FL   LEII #193 “the dog house”

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I'm going with 3M 4000UV.  I scraped the old caulk with one of these and cleaned up with alcohol.  The other windows were much easier than the one with silicone.  I'll go back over it with some acetone or MEK before caulking just to make sure the there's no residue from the alcohol.  I tried MEK to start with, but I could tell that it was taking the paint off of the window frame.  Not much, but enough to dull the sheen just a bit.

Something else I learned - I had tested some Duragloss 541 mildew and stain remover on a few small sections of caulk to see how well it worked.  It actually worked quite well, but I'm glad I did a test because when I scraped those areas, the caulk had turned gummy underneath a thin skin.  Like almost right out of the tube sticky.  Maybe it would have hardened back up with time, but this was maybe three days after, so it might not have re-cured well at all.

Edited by Overland
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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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Thanks for the cleanup info.  It’s on my list to do.  Had you used the Duragloss 541 on the other windows as routine maintenance?  And I’m guessing you wouldn’t use it on silicone again?  Did the dull window frame from the MEK lead to the EZE Gutter location question.  
 

I haven’t put the EZE Gutters on and have not decided where they would go and not interfere with future window maintenance.  The Norton's, who may have #136, placed theirs about halfway between the lights and the windows They used a small peak in the middle and then extended the gutter past the window frame without any turn down.  Which I think is a pretty good location, but it is more noticeable.

Mossey

Mike and Krunch   Lutz, FL   LEII #193 “the dog house”

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Susan Huff said:

Perhaps some things are better left alone? 

Re-caulking is regular maintenance.  You'll be doing it soon enough, or paying someone else to.  

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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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18 minutes ago, mossemi said:

Thanks for the cleanup info.  It’s on my list to do.  Had you used the Duragloss 541 on the other windows as routine maintenance?  And I’m guessing you wouldn’t use it on silicone again?  Did the dull window frame from the MEK lead to the EZE Gutter location question.  
 

I haven’t put the EZE Gutters on and have not decided where they would go and not interfere with future window maintenance.  The Norton's, who may have #136, placed theirs about halfway between the lights and the windows They used a small peak in the middle and then extended the gutter past the window frame without any turn down.  Which I think is a pretty good location, but it is more noticeable.

Mossey

I only just last week tried the Duragloss cleaner on anything, and yes, I tested a spot on the old caulk which is what turned gummy.  It didn't clean the stains from the silicone caulk, but didn't seem to damage it either.  It cleaned up the mildew spots on the old caulk pretty well, but at a cost.  

The dull paint on the frame is fortunately only something you'd notice with really close inspection, and I think some wax will shine it back up.  Or worst case, a little buffing.  I'm not worried about it, but of course wouldn't do it again.  I asked because it occurred to me that it would be difficult to re-caulk around the windows with the gutters in place.  

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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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30 minutes ago, Overland said:

I asked because it occurred to me that it would be difficult to re-caulk around the windows with the gutters in place.  

The re-caulking is a tough enough job without adding obstacles.  And it would add an additional $60 to the job if you took the Gutters’s off on purpose or by accident.  It’s all about compromising between what you want and what makes sense.  And until I except that, I’ll wait on the gutter installation.

Mossey

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Mike and Krunch   Lutz, FL   LEII #193 “the dog house”

 

 

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On 7/8/2020 at 7:35 PM, mossemi said:

Thanks for the cleanup info.  It’s on my list to do.  Had you used the Duragloss 541 on the other windows as routine maintenance?  And I’m guessing you wouldn’t use it on silicone again?  Did the dull window frame from the MEK lead to the EZE Gutter location question.  
 

I haven’t put the EZE Gutters on and have not decided where they would go and not interfere with future window maintenance.  The Norton's, who may have #136, placed theirs about halfway between the lights and the windows They used a small peak in the middle and then extended the gutter past the window frame without any turn down.  Which I think is a pretty good location, but it is more noticeable.

Mossey

I put the EZ gutters on ours and have been very pleased with the difference they have made. We used to have water ingress all the time prior to installation and have had none since despite several heavy rainfalls including while traveling.  I just placed them pretty much immediately above the frame (mostly to use as a guide). I think what has made the difference is keeping as much water off the windows and channels/drains as possible in the first place. 

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Garry and Kristi

Apex, NC

2018 Oliver Elite II Hull 372

TV 2015 Ram 1500 3.0 L EcoDiesel

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On 6/16/2020 at 3:36 PM, SeaDawg said:

FYI, This is what someone on fb posted as current sealant used by Oliver, who had spoken to Richie.

https://www.americansealantsinc.com/asi-335-neutral-cure-silicone-sealantadhesive/

Sherry

Not sure, but I think this thread implies that the ASI 335 sealant yellows?  If so, what sealant (that does not yellow) is recommended 

Ray and Susan Huff

Elite II Twin "Pearl" - Hull#699; taking delivery December 7, 2020

2013 F350 3.2l diesel Super Duty 4x4 long bed crew cab

2017 Leisure Travel Van Unity Twin Bed (sold)

AZARCACOGAHIIDILKSLAMSMONENVNMOKORSCTNTX

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