Got Earplugs?

[SeaDawg]

@Geronimo John since you're probably heading back to Hawaii soon, I'd keep an eye out for new developments and reviews. 

Our houghton 9.5 is a great unit for our smaller Elite. We've not tested it in temps above the 90s. The older I get, the less I desire to test myself in those temps. 

There are many variables we haven't tested on our smaller Houghton,  because we rarely need/use ac. I can tell you that it is very, very quiet., when I tested it at home in Florida  Our install doesn't leak. That's about it. All summer, in the Appalachian mountains, it hasn't run. I've worn long pants and sleeves, all summer.

I'm definitely not the person to ask about 100+ degree weather.  Not my thing, and we'd  be on  the road, toward cooler temps, if that were in the forecast. 

It's about 60 here, north side of the mountain,  southeast of asheville.  Fall seems to be arriving early.

[Geronimo John]

57 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

 

 

[Geronimo John]

the new Truma Aventa listed for a mere $2,150.  I love German engineering, but not at 2X the cost for a unit too small for an OE2 to boot.  It looks like Houghton still has the market corned at this moment.  Good news is more players, more cost competition down the road. 

[SeaDawg]

Geronimo John, that $2150 Australian dollars. About $1575 US. I don't think the Truma is available to us, yet. The Aussies always seem get the new gear before we do!

[SeaDawg]

There is another contender that I've talked about before, in this thread or another. The Coleman mach 10 NDQ is being offered in some winnebago vans, so some decent online mentions from reliable sources like James at fitrv, and technomadia. 

The ndq stands for non ducted quiet. I have not seen (or, at least don't remember seeing) db ratings.

It's more affordable than the Houghton, I think, and definitely less than the Truma. You have to factor in the interior unit/adb,  but its only $100 or so. (Houghton includes this. I think Truma does, as well.)

The coleman can be purchased with their soft start already installed, which I would want, in a 13.5 kw unit.  You may have to purchase heating unit, separately. I'm not sure.

Theirs is lower profile, but still not small, like the smaller Houghton we bought. We really need that rooftop space for our unusual panel mounts to adjust. 

Honestly,  we probably could have replaced our old dometic ac with a vent, since we use it so little.  But, it's really nice to have it when cleaning in Florida heat and humidity, and on the odd occasion that we have a powered campsite.

I've read posts on supply chain issues on those ac units, too. But you have time on your side . Winter is coming. 

[Rivernerd]

On 4/19/2021 at 2:56 AM, katanapilot said:

Oliver are you listening? No (good) reason OTT isn’t installing the Houghton units in new trailers. The Dometic Penguin is a poor choice given the noise level and the availability of something dramatically better. 
 

To potential customers reading this - insist that OTT gets with the program and installs these much quieter, better built and more energy efficient units in their 2022 trailers. 

We have an Elite II on order for delivery in 2022.  I emailed our sales rep, Anita, asking if Oliver would install a Houghton/Rec Pro AC unit in our new Elite II if I purchased it from Rec Pro and had it shipped to Oliver.  I noted that this would save Oliver the cost of the Dometic unit, which could be installed in a different Elite II.  This is Anita's response received today:

That is apparently something done after the units were picked up. Th guidelines we go by would not allow us to install something that hasn’t been approved. So, this is something that the owners are doing themselves. I will send the email to upper management to see and send research and development on engineering side can look into it.   

So, the answer is "NO," but Anita did copy me when she forwarded my message to "Rodney," apparently with Oliver's R&D team:

Hi Rodney,

 

I know that this is something that we can’t do, however advised the new owner that I would refer it to you. That maybe research can be done.

So, the AC upgrade request has been delivered to Oliver's R&D folks.  I expect time will tell if Oliver presently has the inclination and the resources to adapt to customer requests for product improvement while struggling to make trailers for a lot more buyers, like us.

Many thanks to Katanapilot, NcEagle, Minnesota Oli and others who 
"blazed the trail" enabling this upgrade with your informative posts on this thread.  Whether this upgrade will ultimately be done by Oliver, or by us after we bring our Elite II home next year, remains to be seen.  

[Geronimo John]

1 hour ago, Rivernerd said:

Many thanks to Katanapilot, NcEagle, Minnesota Oli and others who 
"blazed the trail" enabling this upgrade with your informative posts on this thread.  Whether this upgrade will ultimately be done by Oliver, or by us after we bring our Elite II home next year, remains to be seen.  

The stumbling block will be for R&D to figure out a way for the evap coil condensate to the existing internal drain tube.  

Some time ago, I postulated that if the Houghton were elevated a bit (Spacer, rubber mat?) that it could provide for a flow line (down hill path) for the condensate to get back into the unit and out the existing drain. Considering that the distance is only about a 18 inches, and at an optimal flow grade of 1/4" per foot, the elevation of the spacer could be as little as3/8" for flow.  Likely thought the tube would be a 1/2" tube from the Houghton exit back through the spacer .  That would require a about a 5/8" spacer.  Certainly worth R&D doing a layout and plan drawing just to check it out!  

However, my comment didn't attract any responses from anybody..... 😞       None the less it appears to be an option for R&D to look into.  

 

MODERATOR:  Would you please forward this to our R&D Team?  Thanks, Geronimo John

[Geronimo John]

11 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

We have an Elite II on order for delivery in 2022. ..... So, the answer is "NO," but Anita did copy me when she forwarded my message to "Rodney," apparently with Oliver's R&D team:

 

Having lived with the current OEM "Hammer Mill" A/C, if I had known then what we all know now, I would have insisted that Oliver  keep their A/C and take the full list price credit.  Then buy a good quiet Houghton and install it myself. 

Oliver has known that this unit is a major customer issue for a lot of years.  In fairness thought, there were no great options available back then.  There are now options, and they need to wake up and smell the roses.  

Again in fairness, thinking it can happen for the 2022 model year is most likely wishful thinking.  

GJ EDIT:  DELETED TEXT ABOVE:  Per Katanapilot: "I'll respectively disagree.  The Atwood Air Command unit that John Davies has in his Oliver was factory installed some number of years ago."

Edited November 16, 2021 by Geronimo John
Updated info from fellow owner.

[Rivernerd]

34 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

The stumbling block will be for R&D to figure out a way for the evap coil condensate to [get to] the existing internal drain tube.  

Some time ago, I postulated that if the Houghton were elevated a bit (Spacer, rubber mat?) that it could provide for a flow line (down hill path) for the condensate to get back into the unit and out the existing drain. Considering that the distance is only about a 18 inches, and at an optimal flow grade of 1/4" per foot, the elevation of the spacer could be as little as3/8" for flow.  Likely thought the tube would be a 1/2" tube from the Houghton exit back through the spacer .  That would require a about a 5/8" spacer.  Certainly worth R&D doing a layout and plan drawing just to check it out!  

I wonder if 5/8" (.625") HDPE (a/k/a Seaboard) would serve as a suitable spacer?  It is readily available, and inexpensive:

https://www.interstateplastics.com/Hdpe-Natural-High-Density-Polyethylene-Sheet-HDPNE~~SH.php?sku=HDPNE++SH&vid=20211115175627-2p&dim2=12&dim3=12&thickness=0.625&qty=1

The HDPE could be cut into strips, leaving a gap for the 1/2" tube, then sealed to the top of the hull, then the inner and outer parts of the Houghton unit clamped together using compatible screws that are 5/8" longer than the supplied screws.

Would this work?

 

 

[topgun2]

57 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

MODERATOR:  Would you please forward this to our R&D Team?  Thanks, Geronimo John

I'd like to help you if I could.  However, I have no clue as to who, what or where this "R&D Team" is located within the Oliver structure.  If you wish your viewpoint to be heard within Oliver then I'd suggest that you send a letter and/or email in this regard to Scott Oliver.

Bill

[Geronimo John]

42 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

 

 

42 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

The HDPE could be cut into strips, leaving a gap for the 1/2" tube, then sealed to the top of the hull, then the inner and outer parts of the Houghton unit clamped together using compatible screws that are 5/8" longer than the supplied screws.

Would this work?

Not trying to be Oliver R&D (Who ever that is at Oliver per Topgun2), but the engineer in me thinks from a structural perspective, HDPE would be perfect.  However, from a vibration perspective something softer would be preferred.  Sort like a rubber composite with some give to absorb vibration, but also enough dimensional stability to keep its' height.  That would take some research, but such materials do exist.  For example the large diameter Concrete Sewer Lines, or Blue Brute both use a "Rubberish" gasket that has bulk, some compressibility, but dimensionally stable when compressed to the desired thickness. 

Lets say for talking purposes, that we wanted to use a 1/2" OD tube, then the spacer/gasket may be 3/4" think and compresses down to just almost a half an inch for tube passage.  Would have some sponginess for vibration, but still give the anchor bolts resistance.   

REALITY CHECK:  All that neat engineering overkill may be needed, but then if the Houghton does not have any vibration then HDPE would be a lot easier.  🙂

[Rivernerd]

38 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

 

Not trying to be Oliver R&D (Who ever that is at Oliver per Topgun2), but the engineer in me thinks from a structural perspective, HDPE would be perfect.  However, from a vibration perspective something softer would be preferred.  Sort like a rubber composite with some give to absorb vibration, but also enough dimensional stability to keep its' height.  That would take some research, but such materials do exist.  For example the large diameter Concrete Sewer Lines, or Blue Brute both use a "Rubberish" gasket that has bulk, some compressibility, but dimensionally stable when compressed to the desired thickness. 

Lets say for talking purposes, that we wanted to use a 1/2" OD tube, then the spacer/gasket may be 3/4" think and compresses down to just almost a half an inch for tube passage.  Would have some sponginess for vibration, but still give the anchor bolts resistance.   

Given the vibration concern, maybe white ethafoam would be a better choice than HDPE.  It, too, is readily available and inexpensive.  It is tough, waterproof and would serve well as a vibration dampener.  It is commonly used by river rafters as a dry box cover, or seat cover on a wood or aluminum substrate.  Sold by Northwest River Supplies (NRS):

https://www.nrs.com/ethafoam-blocks/pxkv?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=1672873107&utm_content=68835701990&utm_term=&gclid=CjwKCAiAp8iMBhAqEiwAJb94z0uouUdxPvFm7ihNxq3GIntqQBJiImQQFLgVrm7c6Ds00S4PuKipBxoCYU8QAvD_BwE

Available in 1" or 2".  The 1" thickness should work, as it is much more compressible than HDPE, and so would compress enough to leave about a 5/8" gap for the drain hose once the top and bottom parts of the unit were secured using longer screws.

[SeaDawg]

If I were a manufacturer  (who has to support the warranty) I'd follow the manufacturer installation instructions to the letter. 

Since some of us have gone rogue,  and we're on our own, we chose a slightly different install method for our 2008,  not outside normal bounds, but not per houghton.  A neoprene gasket of good quality, instead of silicon caulk.

We will see how it works out in the long run . I wouldn't encourage any manufacturer to depart from listed install instructions. Too risky. 

4 bolts hold your ac on the roof. It's really important that you get it right. And keep it right. Imo.

I don't really care that the condensate runs down the trailer roof and side, as we rarely use ac, anyway.  Others might. I would truly have been fine with a second fan install, and would have saved a bunch of $$$, and still would have had more room for my bigger solar panels, which we also installed ourselves. 

 

[Minnesota Oli]

There's probably a lot more that comes in to play when components are chosen for the Oliver, my 2019 has multiple Dometic products so I'm sure the more components the better the over all price point.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SeaDawg]

@Minnesota Oli, and just the likelihood of being able to secure components, with today's broken supply chains, imo.

 

[katanapilot]

7 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Having lived with the current OEM "Hammer Mill" A/C, if I had known then what we all know now, I would have insisted that Oliver  keep their A/C and take the full list price credit.  Then buy a good quiet Houghton and install it myself. 

Oliver has known that this unit is a major customer issue for a lot of years.  In fairness thought, there were no great options available back then.  There are now options, and they need to wake up and smell the roses.  

Again in fairness, thinking it can happen for the 2022 model year is most likely wishful thinking.  

I'll respectively disagree.  The Atwood Air Command unit that John Davies has in his Oliver was factory installed some number of years ago.  I don't know how or why that was done, but clearly Oliver knew about these very quiet Australian made units some time back.

Unfortunately, Dometic bought out Atwood and it appears they have shrunk the variety of models available. Hopefully they won't buy Houghton as well.

[SeaDawg]

Atwood and Houghton are both common in Australia,  but as far as I know, neither is made there.

I'm looking forward to dimetic freshjet, now available only as retrofit in USA. 

Eventually,  US  will catch up with eu and Australia. 

 

[Jps190]

So is the houghton 3400 still the quietest most efficient replacement that we know of for a DIY project?  I have one in my cart on the recpro site but wanted to make sure that everyone is still happy with their installs and performace of the units.  Has anyone done the 9.5 btu unit on an elite 2?

 

John

[Minnesota Oli]

23 minutes ago, Jps190 said:

 Has anyone done the 9.5 btu unit on an elite 2?

Spike installed a 9.5 btu in his elite 2.

Here is some info that Spike relayed to me.

 unit: 9.5

•    Input needed for cooling: 1370 W
•    Rated current for cooling: 12.6 A
•    Maximum power input: 1590 W
•    Maximum current: 14.6 A

 unit: 13.5

•    Input needed for cooling: 1300W
•    Rated current for cooling: 12Amp
•    Maximum power input: 1550W
•    Maximum current: 14Amp
 

So there's very little difference between the two units as far as power consumed to run them but you would be giving up the heat pump feature that the 13.5 has. When I tested my 13.5 for amp draw, Olivers monitor that is in the attic was reading 10 amps when the compressor was running.

[Jps190]

38 minutes ago, Minnesota Oli said:

Spike installed a 9.5 btu in his elite 2.

Here is some info that Spike relayed to me.

 unit: 9.5

•    Input needed for cooling: 1370 W
•    Rated current for cooling: 12.6 A
•    Maximum power input: 1590 W
•    Maximum current: 14.6 A

 unit: 13.5

•    Input needed for cooling: 1300W
•    Rated current for cooling: 12Amp
•    Maximum power input: 1550W
•    Maximum current: 14Amp
 

So there's very little difference between the two units as far as power consumed to run them but you would be giving up the heat pump feature that the 13.5 has. When I tested my 13.5 for amp draw, Olivers monitor that is in the attic was reading 10 amps when the compressor was running.

Thanks.  I guess there is no reason to go with the smaller one.  👍🏻
 

John

[Mike and Carol]

51 minutes ago, Minnesota Oli said:

So there's very little difference between the two units as far as power consumed to run them but you would be giving up the heat pump feature that the 13.5 has.

Is there any data on noise level differences between the 9.5 and 13.5?

[Jps190]

4 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

Is there any data on noise level differences between the 9.5 and 13.5?

The Recpro website has decibel rating for both the bigger one is actually a little quieter.  There is a $400 price difference.  Not sure how much I would use the heat pump portion of the system.  Has anyone found themselves using it for heat?

13.5 unit

Decibels:
Indoor High speed: 56 decibels
• Indoor Low speed: 47 decibels
o Outdoor: 67 decibels

 

9.5 unit

Decibels:
• Indoor High speed: 54.7
o Indoor Low speed: 51.4
o Outdoor: 67.9

 

John

[Minnesota Oli]

14 hours ago, Jps190 said:

Has anyone found themselves using it for heat?

 I have used it in my Oliver storage shed that I heat to only to 55 to 60 degrees, I store my garden produce in the same shed. If I am working on the inside of my Oliver and I want to heat it up that is what I used and it does a very nice job. I have a brother that installed the very same AC when I did mine and he stays in electrical provided spot quite often and he is very happy with the heat pump availability of this AC. So I think if you are going to utilize electric sites it would be a useful feature, It does run quieter and you are saving propane.

[ChrisMI]

23 hours ago, Minnesota Oli said:

Spike installed a 9.5 btu in his elite 2.

Here is some info that Spike relayed to me.

 unit: 9.5

•    Input needed for cooling: 1370 W
•    Rated current for cooling: 12.6 A
•    Maximum power input: 1590 W
•    Maximum current: 14.6 A

 unit: 13.5

•    Input needed for cooling: 1300W
•    Rated current for cooling: 12Amp
•    Maximum power input: 1550W
•    Maximum current: 14Amp

I’m not sure what the actual numbers are for the two units. The screenshots below are from the user manuals and probably represent worst case scenarios…

[ChrisMI]

18 hours ago, Jps190 said:

13.5 unit

Decibels:
Indoor High speed: 56 decibels
• Indoor Low speed: 47 decibels
o Outdoor: 67 decibels

 

9.5 unit

Decibels:
• Indoor High speed: 54.7
o Indoor Low speed: 51.4
o Outdoor: 67.9

Interesting, with the higher cfm capability of the 13.5 it might move the same air on low as the small does on high. That would be a 7db difference which is substantial.