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AC power in trailer via shore power on Xantrex only


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Good question.  The outlet tester is just that, a simple and safe way to test outlet wiring.  It will verify the outlet is wired correctly and indicate any faulty wiring with idiot lights.  The newer

Ray's signature indicates he has a 2020 LE2.  Oliver university only has Xantrex manuals for the the XC2000 and XC3000 and the remote listed for the 2020 model LE2.  The Progressive Dynamics PD9100/PD

Check the junction box located just below the transfer switch. I and others have had loose connections in this area. There are solid wires and stranded wires connected together with wire nuts in this

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Ray's signature indicates he has a 2020 LE2.  Oliver university only has Xantrex manuals for the the XC2000 and XC3000 and the remote listed for the 2020 model LE2.  The Progressive Dynamics PD9100/PD9200 PD5000 Series AC/DC distribution panel does not have a dedicated charger breaker as my 2017 PD4000 Series does.  And the main breaker is 30 amp.  The manual says the XC 2000 requires a 30 amp breaker and the XC3000 requires a 50 amp breaker. So my guess is that the the Xantrex equipment installed in Ray's LE2 is a XC2000 and the fact that it doesn’t have a dedicated breaker for the charger in the PD panel leads me to believe that the Xantrex XC2000 is also wired for charging the batteries.

This would support the Jason's statement that the Xantrex should always be on.  And I would add that it should always be on if you are charging the batteries or using a AC load such as the dehumidifier Ray mentioned.

There is also a LBCO or low battery cut off setting from the Xantrex factory at 10.5v.  Oliver may or may not have changed that setting.

In conclusion, I believe the fluctuations in incoming AC power forced the inverter to supplement the incoming AC with battery power and ran the batteries down to the 10.5v LBCO setting which then shut of the inverter, creating the condition Ray first reported.

I will also add my standard disclaimer:  I have not read the entire XC2000 manual or looked at a 2020 LE2 wiring diagram, so I may be totally wrong, in which case I will say "Mea culpa”.

Mossey

Edited by mossemi
PD9100/PD9200 strikethrough and PD5000 addition
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Mike and Krunch   Lutz, FL   LEII #193 “the dog house”

 

 

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In my case I may have multiple issues going on. After talking with Jason I purchased a larger (10 ga) drop cord and plugged it in to the outlet. That did not seem to help. The GFIC started tripping even more. Yesterday it did not trip at all.  I tried moving the new power cord to a circuit inside the house and it seems to be working great over the past hour.  My guess is the GFIC is bad and I will work on replacing that next week. In the meantime I am letting it run. Even with the Xantrex powered of with the buttons, it is still running and my best guess is that it must come on when shore power is found to give power to the AC outlets in the Ollie. I hope it would power itself off in the event of a loss of power or you could end up with the problem Mike mentioned earlier.  Anyway, my situation seems to be improving!  I will work on getting a dedicated circuit for the Ollie in the next week.

2019 Ram 1500 - 2020 LEll - Hull #676

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If your model is an inverter/charger, that's exactly what it is designed to do. Charge when ac is available,  switch to battery/inverter when ac fails. 

Not ideal if you don't know what's happening,  and don't have a ton of battety available.  Slick if you do.

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2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

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6 minutes ago, mossemi said:

Ray's signature indicates he has a 2020 LE2.  Oliver university only has Xantrex manuals for the the XC2000 and XC3000 and the remote listed for the 2020 model LE2.  The Progressive Dynamics PD9100/PD9200 does not have a dedicated charger breaker as my 2017 does.  And the main breaker is 30 amp.  The manual says the XC 2000 requires a 30 amp breaker and the XC3000 requires a 50 amp breaker. So my guess is that the the Xantrex equipment installed in Ray's LE2 is a XC2000 and the fact that it doesn’t have a dedicated breaker for the charger in the PDI leads me to believe that the Xantrex XC2000 is also wire for charging the batteries.

This would support the Jason's statement that the Xantrex should always be on.  And I would add that it should always be on if you are charging the batteries or using a AC load such as the dehumidifier Ray mentioned.

There is also a LBCO or low battery cut off setting from the Xantrex factory at 10.5v.  Oliver may or may not have changed that setting.

In conclusion, I believe the fluctuations in incoming AC power forced the inverter to supplement the incoming AC with battery power and ran the batteries down to the 10.5v LBCO setting which then shut of the inverter, creating the condition Ray first reported.

I will also add my standard disclaimer:  I have not read the entire XC2000 manual or looked at a 2020 LE2 wiring diagram, so I may be totally wrong, in which case I will say "Mea culpa”.

Mossey

I think you are on it or close. Fortunately, I found the situation last night before the xantrex shut off. So the batteries got down to 11.5 volts. I immediately everything down at that point. 

2019 Ram 1500 - 2020 LEll - Hull #676

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3 hours ago, mossemi said:

Ray's signature indicates he has a 2020 LE2.  Oliver university only has Xantrex manuals for the the XC2000 and XC3000 and the remote listed for the 2020 model LE2.  The Progressive Dynamics PD9100/PD9200 does not have a dedicated charger breaker as my 2017 does.  And the main breaker is 30 amp.  The manual says the XC 2000 requires a 30 amp breaker and the XC3000 requires a 50 amp breaker. So my guess is that the the Xantrex equipment installed in Ray's LE2 is a XC2000 and the fact that it doesn’t have a dedicated breaker for the charger in the PDI leads me to believe that the Xantrex XC2000 is also wire for charging the batteries.

This would support the Jason's statement that the Xantrex should always be on.  And I would add that it should always be on if you are charging the batteries or using a AC load such as the dehumidifier Ray mentioned.

There is also a LBCO or low battery cut off setting from the Xantrex factory at 10.5v.  Oliver may or may not have changed that setting.

In conclusion, I believe the fluctuations in incoming AC power forced the inverter to supplement the incoming AC with battery power and ran the batteries down to the 10.5v LBCO setting which then shut of the inverter, creating the condition Ray first reported.

I will also add my standard disclaimer:  I have not read the entire XC2000 manual or looked at a 2020 LE2 wiring diagram, so I may be totally wrong, in which case I will say "Mea culpa”.

Mossey

The 2020 manual for the Xantrex 3000w, as linked in the Oliver University, is not the 3000w version.  I emailed my sales rep who confirmed the 2021 Lithium Pro inverter is the Xantrex Freedom XC Pro 3000w.  I have not received a response yet to my request for the manual for this model.

Not sure about the 50 amp breaker requirement for the 3000w Xantrex, when the trailer system is only 30 amp.  How does that work?  I guess you can put any amp breaker in as long as it meets a minimum requirement.  Until I see the correct manual, this will remain a mystery.

Still somewhat confused; I'm sure all this "power stuff" will make sense some day.

Ray and Susan Huff

Elite II Twin Hull# 699 - delivery December 7, 2020

2013 F350 3.2l diesel Super Duty 4x4 long bed crew cab

2017 Leisure Travel Van Unity Twin Bed (sold)

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Check out the XC2000 manual, it has some XC3000 information. It’s my experience that Xantrex manuals have usually covered different capacity inverters in the same series.

Mossey

B8FEF197-E438-44CD-B71F-5ED88E276BC0.thumb.jpeg.c784f48e81a0a0ec244810bfd710c9d1.jpeg

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Mike and Krunch   Lutz, FL   LEII #193 “the dog house”

 

 

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24 minutes ago, mossemi said:

Check out the XC2000 manual, it has some XC3000 information. It’s my experience that Xantrex manuals have usually covered different capacity inverters in the same series.

Mossey

B8FEF197-E438-44CD-B71F-5ED88E276BC0.thumb.jpeg.c784f48e81a0a0ec244810bfd710c9d1.jpeg

Thanks for the share.  This is not the manual linked to in the Oliver University.  I followed the link for the 3000w inverter and I got the owner's guide for the Freedom XC 1000/2000w, not the Pro.

Would you mind sharing the PDF?  Thanks

 

Ray and Susan Huff

Elite II Twin Hull# 699 - delivery December 7, 2020

2013 F350 3.2l diesel Super Duty 4x4 long bed crew cab

2017 Leisure Travel Van Unity Twin Bed (sold)

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So can we infer or have we confirmed that Oliver is now using the Freedom XC combination inverter chargers on all of their inverter equipped trailers now?  If so, what are are they using for the distribution panel?  From the photo above, it looks like it may be the PD-5000.  And on their non-inverter equipped units, are they still using the PD-4000 converter, or are they doing a separate converter and distribution panel to keep the wiring the same for everything?

Just glancing through the XC 2000 manual, it looks like it has an optional remote display available.  Does Oliver include that display with the unit?  

It appears that there is some rudimentary diagnostic info displayed either on the remote display or on the unit itself.  You should be able to verify whether the unit thinks it's operating properly via some hieroglyphics on the display, which are translated in the manual starting on page 39.  I'll take a moment to publicly shame whomever designed their icons - a fluorescent bulb to represent a load?  

I don't see any switching other than on and off.  More relevant to the discussion is this note:

Quote

NOTE: Whether or not the Power button is turned ON, shore power will pass through the Freedom XC to the output when shore power is within normal operating range. The unit also starts charging the battery after the transfer to grid mode.

So the unit does NOT have to be on for shore power to reach the outlets, but if the shore power isn't up to spec, it sounds like the unit won't flip the transfer switch to allow it through.

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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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The XC 2000 manual, which is easily found via google or the Xantrex website:

http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Inverter-Chargers/Freedom XC/Freedom XC Series INV-CHG Owners Guide (975-0784-01-01_Rev-B)_ENG.pdf

And the XC 3000 Pro manual, which is, not surprisingly, also very easily found via google or the Xantrex website:

http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Inverter-Chargers/Freedom XC/Freedom XC PRO Owner's Guide (975-0799-01-01_Rev-C)_ENG.pdf

So far, I haven't been able to determine what makes the pro a pro.

Edited by Overland
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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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16 hours ago, mossemi said:

I believe the fluctuations in incoming AC power forced the inverter to supplement the incoming AC with battery power

It doesn't appear that either the XC or XC pro have the ability to supplement AC power.  From what I've read, they just have a built in transfer switch, so it's either inverter or shore power, but no combining the two.  So I guess it's better to refer to these as combination inverter chargers rather than hybrid ones.  The Victron, for example, uses varying voltages to determine whether power flows in or out of the unit, which is what allows it to supplement shore power with the batteries.

But I suspect (assuming that the new power cord fixed everything) that the problem was essentially what you said, but the low voltage from the small cord didn't meet the inverter's requirements to flip the transfer switch.  

Edited by Overland
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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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On 10/21/2020 at 5:52 AM, Ray Kimsey said:

The power management monitor is reading E0, 123V, 0A 60H

 

20 hours ago, Ray Kimsey said:

When the power was turned on, it came back alive and the EMS eventually showed a PE4 (low voltage message).

Just curious what you did differently in the two cases above.  Are you using a portable surge protector, or is it the built in version?  I can see that if you had the portable, connected at the outlet in the first situation, and at the end of the extension cord in the second, that you'd get those results.  

Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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30 minutes ago, Overland said:

The XC 2000 manual, which is easily found via google or the Xantrex website:

http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Inverter-Chargers/Freedom XC/Freedom XC Series INV-CHG Owners Guide (975-0784-01-01_Rev-B)_ENG.pdf

And the XC 3000 Pro manual, which is, not surprisingly, also very easily found via google or the Xantrex website:

http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Inverter-Chargers/Freedom XC/Freedom XC PRO Owner's Guide (975-0799-01-01_Rev-C)_ENG.pdf

So far, I haven't been able to determine what makes the pro a pro.

The differences I can see by comparing the manuals:

Wattage

Pro model is bluetooth capable. 

Pro has more custom setting options

I hope to understand the electrical system better after our walk-through.  I'm going to ask a lot of questions.  Wish I could take my "electronic genius grandson" along 😎

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Ray and Susan Huff

Elite II Twin Hull# 699 - delivery December 7, 2020

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2017 Leisure Travel Van Unity Twin Bed (sold)

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Check the junction box located just below the transfer switch. I and others have had loose connections in this area. There are solid wires and stranded wires connected together with wire nuts in this box. This is a difficult type of connection and it is possible that a loose connection in this box could cause the issues that you may be experiencing. Please make sure that your trailer is not connected to shore power and be sure that the inverter is off as well before removing the junction box cover.

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2 hours ago, Overland said:

 

Just curious what you did differently in the two cases above.  Are you using a portable surge protector, or is it the built in version?  I can see that if you had the portable, connected at the outlet in the first situation, and at the end of the extension cord in the second, that you'd get those results.  

The difference is that I used a different outlet and a 10 ga drop cord rather than a 12ga. I think there were multiple issues going on. At first the GFCI circuit I used was acting fine and tested fine. Later in the day as time went on it started tripping almost as soon as I plugged the system in. The other outlet in the house was probably not a GFCI circuit. I think the 10 ga drop cord also helped with the occasional power drop. It has run fine now for almost 20 hours with no problems.

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2019 Ram 1500 - 2020 LEll - Hull #676

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2 hours ago, mountainoliver said:

Check the junction box located just below the transfer switch. I and others have had loose connections in this area. There are solid wires and stranded wires connected together with wire nuts in this box. This is a difficult type of connection and it is possible that a loose connection in this box could cause the issues that you may be experiencing. Please make sure that your trailer is not connected to shore power and be sure that the inverter is off as well before removing the junction box cover.

I will put this on my list of things to check when I get back home. Thank you.

2019 Ram 1500 - 2020 LEll - Hull #676

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3 hours ago, Overland said:

So can we infer or have we confirmed that Oliver is now using the Freedom XC combination inverter chargers on all of their inverter equipped trailers now?  If so, what are are they using for the distribution panel?  From the photo above, it looks like it may be the PD-5000.  And on their non-inverter equipped units, are they still using the PD-4000 converter, or are they doing a separate converter and distribution panel to keep the wiring the same for everything?

Just glancing through the XC 2000 manual, it looks like it has an optional remote display available.  Does Oliver include that display with the unit?  

It appears that there is some rudimentary diagnostic info displayed either on the remote display or on the unit itself.  You should be able to verify whether the unit thinks it's operating properly via some hieroglyphics on the display, which are translated in the manual starting on page 39.  I'll take a moment to publicly shame whomever designed their icons - a fluorescent bulb to represent a load?  

I don't see any switching other than on and off.  More relevant to the discussion is this note:

So the unit does NOT have to be on for shore power to reach the outlets.  

That looks like it might be the Xantrex Remote Display Panel in the picture.
And I think you are right about the PD5000 Power Distribution Panel and the inability of the Xantrex XC series to supplement the AC load with inverted DC power.

MosseyE429374A-32B4-4F76-A622-5EF472ACE472.jpeg.23e255457edd9973e3f43eefa111f4ea.jpeg

 

Edited by mossemi
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Mike and Krunch   Lutz, FL   LEII #193 “the dog house”

 

 

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2 hours ago, mountainoliver said:

Check the junction box located just below the transfer switch. I and others have had loose connections in this area. There are solid wires and stranded wires connected together with wire nuts in this box. This is a difficult type of connection and it is possible that a loose connection in this box could cause the issues that you may be experiencing. Please make sure that your trailer is not connected to shore power and be sure that the inverter is off as well before removing the junction box cover.

We had this issue that Ken describes.  After a couple of years our outlets wouldn’t work when on shore power.  Lose wires in the junction box...

Mike and Carol | Fair Oaks Ranch, TX | 2016 Elite II #135 | 2020 Ram Rebel 4X4 5.7L Hemi

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2 hours ago, mossemi said:

Susan,

ABC3E256-F1D6-482A-A321-3E9C1CC84D70.thumb.jpeg.c3f79f70e711d9e9b938884cd264f4ed.jpeg

My apologies!  Now I see why I was confused . . . . Oliver has the links backwards . . . . . the link highlighted says it is for the XC 2000w inverter but it brings up the 2000/3000w manual; likewise, the XC Pro 3000 link goes to the 1000/2000w manual.  I hope they don't install the inverters reversed lol

There is also a link for a PD charger manual; I assume this is for installations without the inverter option.

Ray and Susan Huff

Elite II Twin Hull# 699 - delivery December 7, 2020

2013 F350 3.2l diesel Super Duty 4x4 long bed crew cab

2017 Leisure Travel Van Unity Twin Bed (sold)

AZARCACOGAHIIDILKSLAMSMONENVNMOKORSCTNTX

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Ray,

If you try the original outlet that gave you a problem and it still does, I recommend checking it for reverse polarity.  If it is reversed, it is a simple no cost fix and gets rid of a potential safety problem.

George and Gretchen


Gig Harbor, Wa.


Hull Number 178

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20 hours ago, geokeg said:

Ray,

If you try the original outlet that gave you a problem and it still does, I recommend checking it for reverse polarity.  If it is reversed, it is a simple no cost fix and gets rid of a potential safety problem.

Get one of these, if you don't already have one https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-GFCI-Receptacle-Tester-RT210/206517824

Ray and Susan Huff

Elite II Twin Hull# 699 - delivery December 7, 2020

2013 F350 3.2l diesel Super Duty 4x4 long bed crew cab

2017 Leisure Travel Van Unity Twin Bed (sold)

AZARCACOGAHIIDILKSLAMSMONENVNMOKORSCTNTX

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Some of this electrical discussion is still above my pay grade but,  is it possible to test 15a and GFCI circuits with a multi meter?  What does the Sperry or Klein receptacle tester do that a multi meter wouldn't?  I would guess that it has something to do with the black magic that happens in a GFCI circuit!?

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25 minutes ago, GAP said:

Some of this electrical discussion is still above my pay grade but,  is it possible to test 15a and GFCI circuits with a multi meter?  What does the Sperry or Klein receptacle tester do that a multi meter wouldn't?  I would guess that it has something to do with the black magic that happens in a GFCI circuit!?

I don't know the answer to your question regarding the multimeter; I'm pretty sure our electrician used one when testing one of our GFCI plugs.  I will say the receptacle tester is compact and easily stored in a small tool box.  We carry a bigger tool box for serious tools and a small tackle box for plug in adapters and other small tools.

Ray and Susan Huff

Elite II Twin Hull# 699 - delivery December 7, 2020

2013 F350 3.2l diesel Super Duty 4x4 long bed crew cab

2017 Leisure Travel Van Unity Twin Bed (sold)

AZARCACOGAHIIDILKSLAMSMONENVNMOKORSCTNTX

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3 hours ago, GAP said:

Some of this electrical discussion is still above my pay grade but,  is it possible to test 15a and GFCI circuits with a multi meter?  What does the Sperry or Klein receptacle tester do that a multi meter wouldn't?  I would guess that it has something to do with the black magic that happens in a GFCI circuit!?

The little outlet testers are just easier and more idiot proof.  They often have the added feature of a button that will test the GFCI breaker.

It doesn't sound like Ray's problem would have been diagnosed with one of those, though it would have ruled out some common issues.  Nonetheless, it's a good tool to have.  I mean, they're cheap and useful.  I carry a small multimeter as well.

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Snowball • 256 • 2018 Ford Raptor

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