Plumbing Leaks

[BillandDoris]

Hi Everyone.  Has anyone had issues with the ball valves and fittings on the PEX lines?   Three of four fittings on our lines developed leaks after a recent camping trip in Colorado.  To be fair, once we left the paved road, we drove 30 miles roundtrip on a dusty, deeply rutted gravel road to reach our campsite.  My teeth still hurt and it would have been a test for any trailer.  We've had the fittings replaced but now I'm concerned about  the fittings I can't see, like the ones to the sinks and toilet and tanks.   Is there another fitting that works better than the ones that came stock on the trailer?  We have a 2019 Legacy Elite ll.  Hull 571.  

Should I just have a drink and chill out until the next line leaks?  I appreciate the comments and suggestions on the forum, particularly since I'm not as confident working on a beautiful expensive trailer as I am working on the house.

So thanks, and stay well out there.   Doris and Bill

[Overland]

We had a few shake down issues - one broken elbow and something that came loose inside the Truma. This was some time ago, but it was a similar situation. Gravel and rough roads testing the limits of the trailer. The broken elbow was caused by a water line that had been cut short, and so was pulling on the all the nearby connections. The truma problem was possibly related, possibly an install problem, possibly a truma problem - who knows.  But after the initial issues, I went through and tied down a lot of the plumbing to something solid with zip ties and we haven’t had any problems since, even with rough roads. Maybe my zip tying did the trick, or maybe on the first trip we just broke everything that was ever going to break.

Now, recently I’ve gone through and replaced all the plastic fittings with brass. Basically replaced all the plumbing. It was an already ambitious project that got out of hand - don’t ask. Will it be better?  I’ll find out. But to answer your question, yes I do think that the brass fittings are far stronger than plastic and that crimped connections are far stronger than the press to fit kind. Though I don’t think that either are necessarily inappropriate for Oliver to use.

I guess any advice would depend on how you plan to travel from here on. If you think your bumpy road experiences will be few and far between, then I’d say chill, but maybe make up a small kit of pex fittings and some tubing, and learn some basics on doing field repairs. Or if you’re like me and can’t keep your trailer on pavement, then I can recommend a nice crimper and some good places to cut access holes. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Overland

[Mcb]

6 hours ago, Overland said:

Or if you’re like me and can’t keep your trailer on pavement, then I can recommend a nice crimper and some good places to cut access holes. 

I sure would be interested in your recommendations for access holes...and the crimper while you’re at it...

 

[BillandDoris]

Thanks for the advice and I'd definitely be interested in the access holes and crimper.  Something to ponder this winter before we head out again.  In the meantime, I'll secure the lines a little better and prepare a field kit as you suggest.  We also have a hard time staying on pavement so I'm willing to do whatever it takes to keep it dry.  Doris and Bill

[Ray and Susan Huff]

51 minutes ago, BillandDoris said:

Thanks for the advice and I'd definitely be interested in the access holes and crimper.  Something to ponder this winter before we head out again.  In the meantime, I'll secure the lines a little better and prepare a field kit as you suggest.  We also have a hard time staying on pavement so I'm willing to do whatever it takes to keep it dry.  Doris and Bill

I have been wondering how you discover and fix a water leak since much of the plumbing system is enclosed between the two hulls.

Following

[topgun2]

A major water leak will be obvious when water starts coming out of the scupper holes in the bottom of the Oliver (those are the little silver metal things on the bottom that "open" towards the bumper).  Minor water leaks are a bit more difficult to find.  Every now and then I simply run my hand over virtually any "floor" between the hulls that I can reach.  If I feel dampness - I investigate further.

Bill

[BillandDoris]

Hi Susan.  You may already know this but the valves and fittings you use to configure the trailer for boon docking and winterizing  are underneath the bed on the curbside of the trailer.  You'll need to remove the mattress or cushions covering the banco and expose the plumbing underneath.  We do our own winterizing and we boon dock frequently so we're aware of the valves and the plumbing in that area.  It's also where the Truma and furnace are located so they're accessible as well.  (In our case we discovered the leaks in the valves after we had to replace a faulty Truma.  I'd left that part of the hull open, periodically checking the plumbing the Truma tech had worked on.  His work was fine, the leaks were in the fittings.)  

So now I'm doing what topgun2 recommends , and thanks for that advice TG2, looking and feeling for anything damp.  I did not know about the scuppers so I'm on to that now too.  Every day something new.  It's good to be alive.  

[John E Davies]

8 hours ago, Mcb said:

I sure would be interested in your recommendations for access holes...and the crimper while you’re at it...

I can’t help with the hole locations, but you should buy this wonderful crimping tool.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-3-8-in-1-in-PEX-Clamp-Tool-UC961/202688118

Use the appropriate diameter stainless steel crimp rings. They are easy to install, and what is more important, they are easy to remove. A crimped copper ring requires cutting or chiseling off. The stainless rings pop off with the twist of a flat tipped screwdriver.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-1-2-in-PEX-Barb-Stainless-Steel-Clamp-10-Pack-UC953A/202032891?MERCH=REC-_-plpsearch_multi-_-NA-_-202032891-_-N

My hand strength is low and I have to have help for the 1” size, I just slip a couple of steel pipes over the tool’s handles. Once you try this system you will never go back to the stupid copper ones. You can tell your wife that you need this stuff to repair your house plumbing too.... it would also work on irrigation lines, but the parts are kind of pricey for that application. I used mine a while ago to install hot and cold water lines and valves for a bidet toilet seat, it worked great and made my wife very happy indeed!

I have never had a clamp fail, but if you are repairing a joint that will be forever hidden, like inside a wall, you can double up (install two clamps instead of one) per connection, and you will not ever worry about a possible failure.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by John E Davies

[Overland]

I’ll second John’s recommendations, since that’s exactly what I’ve been using. The crimper is tough to work with in some of the cramped spaces but I’ve made it work. It can be a workout at times. The crimps are extremely strong. 

[Overland]

3 hours ago, Susan Huff said:

I have been wondering how you discover and fix a water leak since much of the plumbing system is enclosed between the two hulls.

Following

Often the telltale sign of a small leak will be the water pump cycling regularly. Obviously that doesn’t happen when on hookups, but the sign then will be the growing puddle of water under the trailer. 

[Overland]

8 hours ago, Mcb said:

I sure would be interested in your recommendations for access holes...and the crimper while you’re at it...

 

I’ve cut five access holes in my trailer: one under my composting toilet, which obviously won’t apply unless you have one; one under the fridge; one under each set of galley drawers; and one in the closet. The most useful and easiest are the ones under the drawers.  (Oliver service will cut one of them for you if you ever need to reattach your overflow drain.) The closet one is the trickiest - you can do real damage to your trailer if you mess that one up. I’ll see if I can put some photos together and make a post about them next week. 

[John E Davies]

One REALLY effective trick to locate a mystery leak is to place a folded up blue paper “shop towel”, not a white one, under a suspected fitting. If there is a slow drip, it will show up as an easy to see dark blue spot on the light blue background. Don’t buy from Amazon, you can find them for around $2 per roll at any place that sells auto parts, including Walmart.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[BillandDoris]

Alright!  All good information and I'm bookmarking the Home Depot pages for the crimpers and clamps.  I'll note where the access holes go.  I'm becoming puffed up about the ability to fix some plumbing issues myself.  

And in reply to John's post, this is exactly how I learned the fittings were leaking in the first place.  Wet paper towels slipped under the fittings. I didn't have the blue towels but I'm sure they work better than Brawny whites I had on hand.  Also, I'm the wife in this case so I give myself full permission to buy any tools we need.  Ever since my husband learned he's part Neanderthal he excuses himself from any plumbing repairs, saying it's not in his DNA.  If you need stitches, he's your man.  Plumbing...not so much.  

Thanks and I've got lots to consider.  It's always a good time logging in to the Forum, I've discovered.  Better than lurking.  

Doris and Bill

[SeaDawg]

The blue towels do work really well, if you have them around.

They also work well for other uses.😁

[NCeagle]

On 10/24/2020 at 2:51 PM, Overland said:

I’ve cut five access holes in my trailer: one under my composting toilet, which obviously won’t apply unless you have one; one under the fridge; one under each set of galley drawers; and one in the closet. The most useful and easiest are the ones under the drawers.  (Oliver service will cut one of them for you if you ever need to reattach your overflow drain.) The closet one is the trickiest - you can do real damage to your trailer if you mess that one up. I’ll see if I can put some photos together and make a post about them next week. 

Hi @Overland, any chance you put together a post on these access holes?  I'm very interested in getting at least some access to the areas under the kitchen drawers and the closet.  If you have, my apologies - I haven't seen it using search.

[Overland]

Haven't posted anything yet.  Don't worry - I'll get to it. 

[NCeagle]

1 hour ago, Overland said:

Haven't posted anything yet.  Don't worry - I'll get to it. 

Thank you!  No hurry at all.  Eventually I want to check my HVAC ducts in that area since they were messed up closer to the furnace.  Rather not guess if someone has already successfully pulled this off.  🙂

[topgun2]

I'm worried!  Please hurry up!  😉😁🤣

[Overland]

Bath vents are easy to deal with.  Just reach in and rip them out - all fixed.

The kitchen vents you might want to be more careful with, but those are easy, just use a router and the cabinet walls as your guide.  You'll have to be a little careful with the front cut.  You can try to use the cabinet trim as a guide, but it flexes, so I held a 2 x 4 tight to the lip of the trim and used that instead.  The result is a nice clean hole, big enough to do most any repair or modification you'd like.  The one under the sink is that same one Oliver will cut if you ever need them to reattach your fresh tank overflow.  You'll of course want to cut some ¼" plywood to screw down over the holes. or anything that bumps out of your drawers while traveling will end up who knows where.

[topgun2]

What took you so long? 😁

[Overland]

I was busy adding more projects to my to do list.

[NCeagle]

Anyone have any tips on removing the white caps covering the screws on the bathroom vanity panel without damaging them?  They are being stubborn - I'm trying to use plastic auto trim tools so I don't scratch anything, but that's not working.  I thought this would be the easy part.  🙂

[Mike and Carol]

5 hours ago, NCeagle said:

Anyone have any tips on removing the white caps covering the screws on the bathroom vanity panel without damaging them?  They are being stubborn - I'm trying to use plastic auto trim tools so I don't scratch anything, but that's not working.  I thought this would be the easy part.  🙂

I used a plastic razor blade and my fingernail.  Mike

[ScubaRx]

13 hours ago, NCeagle said:

Anyone have any tips on removing the white caps covering the screws on the bathroom vanity panel without damaging them?  They are being stubborn - I'm trying to use plastic auto trim tools so I don't scratch anything, but that's not working.  I thought this would be the easy part.  🙂

They probably have a dab of silicone (type) caulk behind them to "glue" them on. Try harder...

 

[NCeagle]

Got them finally.  It did take some extra to get them to pop.  Now the fun part.  There's a lot packed under the sink and now I see why there's very little airflow from that vent.  It's twisting and turning around a bunch of stuff.