Where is the 20 amp relay for the trailer harness 12 AWG black “charge” wire? Where do the 7 pin wires connect to the trailer wires?

[John E Davies]

I thought I knew where the breaker was, There is a small silver (automotive type) 20 amp self resetting breaker near the bus bar and jack fuses under the street side bed. But the black wire is quite small, perhaps 16 AWG. At the very front of the trailer in the tongue harness I have a bigger 12 AWG black wire. So I guess what I was looking at is for some other circuit. There is a similar breaker close by for the rooftop solar panel wire, that is easy to spot because of the kind of wires it has.

Any ideas where I will find the battery charge circuit breaker for the 7 pin connector?

 

Does the front harness come in under the bathroom floor and tie into the trailer wiring there at a terminal strip? If so, where is it located? There is not one shown on that diagram!

I would rather not file a service ticket if somebody happens to know. Surely somebody has seen these connections. I am going to install a Redarc Trailer Charger near the inverter and I need a 12 AWG or larger wire to feed it.... I would rather not be forced to run a brand new one. But if I have to I can increase it to 10 AWG. I just need to locate it!

Thanks,

John Davies

Spokane WA
 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by John E Davies

[Maverick]

The 7 wire cable from the tow vehicle come into the trailer and can be reach under the front dinette seat and no terminal blocks just butt connecting wires headed to the rear.

[John E Davies]

Maverick, thanks for the quick reply, I will go look there. I think a terminal strip inside a hard junction box would be more, well, elegant..... if I find a small black wire leading aft, maybe I can use it as a fish to pull a much bigger one along that route.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

[John E Davies]

Darn it, I found the splices and discovered that the white ground from the 7 wire harness is too small, it is 12 AWG in the front part, then it drops to 14 AWG. It is too small to carry the necessary current. 12 AWG is acceptable, 10 AWG is better.... I am going to have to run bigger wires for a short distance, and the splices are quite a mess and extremely difficult to access, I am going to fix that. New thread to follow in awhile....

 

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Overland]

Time to get rid of that sewer pipe. 😛

[John E Davies]

45 minutes ago, Overland said:

Time to get rid of that sewer pipe. 😛

Soon maybe, but not quite yet. I still am considering running furnace air through it. I ordered a junction box to reroute all the 7 wire harnesses to, and I will have those splices located up high above the small pipe, where they can be accessed twenty years from now. I already put a similar box up on the tongue, it turned out very well. It will allow very easy troubleshooting of lighting or brake problem with a multimeter.

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories_and_Parts/etrailer/e99009.html

You have to hold onto a little humor when improving mediocre trailer wiring, or it would drive you bonkers... I admit I swore for a minute when I saw the nasty mess of tangled 120 volt wires under the bathroom doorway. I will leave them “as built”.🙁 Couldn’t they just glue a piece of 1” or bigger plastic conduit to the floor and run stuff through that? Instead of using gaffer’s tape???? This could wear a hole against those aluminum parts and short out:

OTH it might be possible to pull out four feet of extra wire at the other end and cut it off. Did you notice if your wires were secured under the closet?

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by John E Davies

[NCeagle]

Good to know for LIthium package owners:

I couldn't find my charge wire connections or the relay, so I decided to put my fuse back in to activate my charge wire and see what happened.  Well, I saw nothing at all - no charge, no draw, etc.  I opened a ticket and Jason answered that the charge wire is not being connected with the Lithium package.  I'm good with that since it's pretty much useless without the upgraded wiring and DC to DC charger that JD is considering.

[SNY SD UP]

John, et. al.,

We picked up our 2020 OLE II Hull # 665 Sept 10th.

Prior to us signing on the dotted line, we had a factory tour.  I thought during the tour, Jason(?) mentioned that Oliver had made significant improvements as to the way the electrical harness's for the Ollie were now being assembled.

My question is; Are the "Rats Nests" mentioned by some across the various wiring topics "Sins of the Past" or still being committed today? 

I have not seen anything that rises to the previous descriptions by those more experienced than myself of the internals of the Oliver, in the few familiarization inspections I have made, when trying to visualize what is being discussed, and whether or not I wish to partake in that fun...

However I still enjoy reading and trying to understand all mods & improvements that many of you are discussing and doing.

 

Regards,

Bryan

Edited December 11, 2020 by SNYSDUP

[AndrewK]

Bryan, 

I have been very impressed with the quality of workpersonship of the wiring on our 2019.  It is very clean and well thought out.

The only problem I have found was the failure to install the solar wire from behind the radio down to the lower hull.  Fishing a double strand of 10awg between the hulls proved to be difficult and very time consuming, after the fact.  

Andrew

[NCeagle]

5 hours ago, SNYSDUP said:

My question is; Are the "Rats Nests" mentioned by some across the various wiring topics "Sins of the Past" or still being committed today? 

Bryan, we have just picked up hull 688 last month.  The quality and workmanship of the plumbing and electric is very impressive.  I was worried looking at pictures and reading about the struggles of past owners with the quality of these internal systems, but I must say I'm relieved that 688 doesn't seem to have many of those older issues.  

I have one major gripe so far.  The lack of up to date documentation on the electrical diagrams to me is unacceptable.  I'm already frustrated trying to figure out electrical issues or questions by having to look at older owners manuals, hope someone from the forum knows where a wire is running or opening a service ticket.  Thankfully Jason has been very responsive to the tickets I'm opening, but it still takes a day or more to get simple answers that can be answered by an electrical schematic.

I can't seem to find the right person to bug yet at Oliver.  I've tried my sales person and Jason.  Jason says the service department doesn't even have any!

 

[Mcb]

1 hour ago, NCeagle said:

Bryan, we have just picked up hull 688 last month.  The quality and workmanship of the plumbing and electric is very impressive.  I was worried looking at pictures and reading about the struggles of past owners with the quality of these internal systems, but I must say I'm relieved that 688 doesn't seem to have many of those older issues.  

I have one major gripe so far.  The lack of up to date documentation on the electrical diagrams to me is unacceptable.  I'm already frustrated trying to figure out electrical issues or questions by having to look at older owners manuals, hope someone from the forum knows where a wire is running or opening a service ticket.  Thankfully Jason has been very responsive to the tickets I'm opening, but it still takes a day or more to get simple answers that can be answered by an electrical schematic.

I can't seem to find the right person to bug yet at Oliver.  I've tried my sales person and Jason.  Jason says the service department doesn't even have any!

 

I’ve asked Jason about an electrical plan as well, no luck.. The difference between the electrical sections of the 2019 and 2020 owners manuals is pretty amazing. Comparatively, the lack of information in the 2020 version is impressive. Perhaps the 2019 and 20 models have the same wiring plan, and we can refer to the 2019 manual... Have you encountered any situations in your explorations of the guts of your trailer where the wiring doesn’t jive with the 2019 schematic? 

[NCeagle]

2 minutes ago, Mcb said:

I’ve asked Jason about an electrical plan as well, no luck.. The difference between the electrical sections of the 2019 and 2020 owners manuals is pretty amazing. Comparatively, the lack of information in the 2020 version is impressive. Perhaps the 2019 and 20 models have the same wiring plan, and we can refer to the 2019 manual... Have you encountered any situations in your explorations of the guts of your trailer where the wiring doesn’t jive with the 2019 schematic? 

Just a few that seem to be related to the Lithium package: 

1. The 12V charge wire from the TV tow harness is not connected as shown in the 2019 electrical schematic. 

2. There are now a bunch of cutoff switches to the batteries: solar input cutoff switch, a main battery cutoff and an inverter input cutoff. 

I think this is all to enable isolation of the Lithiums so we can shut off charge sources, etc.  Lithiums don't like to be kept topped off all the time and I get the sense the BMS and various other charge controllers just don't "get it" yet.

So just playing around with the various cutoff switches, I discovered that when on shore power, you can use the inverter cutoff to stop the inverter from continuously charging the batteries.  Anyways - that's cool but I didn't even know about it until I stuck my head under the seat.  🙂

 

[Mcb]

14 minutes ago, NCeagle said:

Just a few that seem to be related to the Lithium package: 

1. The 12V charge wire from the TV tow harness is not connected as shown in the 2019 electrical schematic. 

2. There are now a bunch of cutoff switches to the batteries: solar input cutoff switch, a main battery cutoff and an inverter input cutoff. 

I think this is all to enable isolation of the Lithiums so we can shut off charge sources, etc.  Lithiums don't like to be kept topped off all the time and I get the sense the BMS and various other charge controllers just don't "get it" yet.

So just playing around with the various cutoff switches, I discovered that when on shore power, you can use the inverter cutoff to stop the inverter from continuously charging the batteries.  Anyways - that's cool but I didn't even know about it until I stuck my head under the seat.  🙂

 

Thanks. I know where the solar and inverter input cut offs are , ( port side upper storage, 30amp breaker forward of inverter, but where is the main battery cut off? Is that the breaker located outboard of the inverter? 
I had isolated the batteries from solar and inverter as a practice run at storage situations. While they don’t charge, their levels do slowly continue to drop, as all the things in the trailer that require 12v continue to sip power. Jason recommends disconnecting the batteries themselves when storing because of this situation. The LP alarm is hardwired to the battery, and will therefore keep drawing power even if you manage to turn everything else off.. 

[NCeagle]

I don't see anything outboard of the inverter - it seems to go straight to the 120V breaker box?  My 12V battery cutoff is of the same variety as the inverter to battery cutoff - although it's a lower Amp / Voltage.  It's bolted to the street side wheel well on #688.  If you need me to send a picture let me know.

[Overland]

3 hours ago, Mcb said:

I’ve asked Jason about an electrical plan as well, no luck.. The difference between the electrical sections of the 2019 and 2020 owners manuals is pretty amazing. Comparatively, the lack of information in the 2020 version is impressive. Perhaps the 2019 and 20 models have the same wiring plan, and we can refer to the 2019 manual... Have you encountered any situations in your explorations of the guts of your trailer where the wiring doesn’t jive with the 2019 schematic? 

The lack of documentation in the current owners manual is a significant downgrade for the trailers themselves.  It's a shame that Oliver doesn't see it that way.

[mjrendon]

If there are a significant number of pending changes, the drawings might just be delayed until a final version of changes are accepted/documented. Or did Jason say that they will no longer provide electrical drawings for their trailers?  Hopefully not the latter.

[NCeagle]

1 hour ago, mjrendon said:

If there are a significant number of pending changes, the drawings might just be delayed until a final version of changes are accepted/documented. Or did Jason say that they will no longer provide electrical drawings for their trailers?  Hopefully not the latter.

Jason just told me that he's been asking for them as well and that the Service department hasn't even gotten them.  So I'm not sure of the plans.

[bhncb]

2 hours ago, NCeagle said:

Jason just told me that he's been asking for them as well and that the Service department hasn't even gotten them.  So I'm not sure of the plans.

There is no way Oliver could begin production without having had wiring diagrams. Somebody has them. I wonder how receptive a third-party shop that agrees to perform warranty repairs would be. Hope they get a straight t&m agreement.   Given 2021 production status, and this service department comment, if customer available 2020 diagrams haven' t appeared by now, the plans seem obvious.

[bhncb]

11 hours ago, NCeagle said:

Just a few that seem to be related to the Lithium package: 

 

I expect the bulk of differences to be on the AC side. Look for the PI EMS output to feed the inverter AC input through a standalone 30 amp main breaker, probably near the EMS. The inverter AC output (transfer switched) should go directly to the 30 amp main breaker in the PD5000 PDC as noted by NCeagle. For non-lithium models, the EMS output will go directly to the PD5000 main with a branch circuit suppling the inverter AC input, or external DC converter if there is no inverter.

Out of curiosity I would be interested in seeing any pictures of the lithium DC side anyone cares to provide. Specifically battery cutoff types and locations.

Edited December 11, 2020 by bhncb

[georgelewisray]

Thanks to all who have thought about and raised the issue of Electrical System-Documentation. 

We love Hull#751 but there are a lot of challenges that I attribute to "Production Hell" as Elon Musk said about Tesla ramping production.

I am spending a lot of time fixing, cleaning and chasing documentation which I expect from Harbor Freight but not from Oliver. Hopefully the trials and tribulations of us 'Early Adaptors' will pave the way fora brighter future for those who come after. 

Keep up the good work. . . . . meanwhile I have to go back to tracing down the lack of power to both the fans and wondering about the quick connectors being used.

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by georgelewisray

[John E Davies]

50 minutes ago, georgelewisray said:

 meanwhile I have to go back to tracing down the lack of power to both the fans and wondering about the quick connectors being used.

Those are fast for the installer but I hate them, IMHO any crimped splice is better than a “poke the wire in the hole and hope it stays connected” one. I won’t replace all mine, but in the future if I am chasing an intermittent connection those fast splice things will be the first place to look. I think they have no business being on a travel trailer that is bounced and shaken, at the very least they should have some stain relief (wire ties) to prevent individual wires from moving around. Do that and I think they will be pretty reliable, just not 100% reliable.

FYI on Hull 218 there are some that are completely buried under multiple layers of electrical tape (!) and practically inaccessible, such as:

I replaced those two with crimped butt splices. Good luck, please start a new thread about your fan problem and what you discover.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited March 28, 2021 by John E Davies

[Overland]

Given the choice, I’d want lever nuts everywhere on my trailer. The ease with which you can diagnose a bad connection and then fix it is a real benefit.  And I’ve never heard of any reliability issues, so really the only drawback is that the installer may not know how or take the time to insert the wires properly, which of course can be a problem.

For example, the two outside wires in the photo above are clearly not inserted properly.  It’s an easy fix - just lift the lever and fully push the wire in, but it’s troubling that whomever made that connection either didn’t take the half second to check it or was too lazy or rushed to fix it.  But I wouldn’t blame the connector for that.  The same person could just as easily have botched a crimped connection, which you would then probably only be able to diagnose with a multimeter.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Overland